We've been better organised and more disciplined under Ralf. People forget that Ole benefitted from Bruno having an insane two year purple patch which made his time here look better than it was. Ralf inherited an entire team out of form, Bruno included.
Ralf vs Ole ( performance vs result)
- Thread starter Amadaeus
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I don´t understand why we are having this discussion, this was one of the first games for a long time where I felt we pinned an opponent down and tried to win the game. How Ralf is getting the blame for Bruno and Ronaldo being absolute shit in front of goal is beyond me. This game should have been in the bin at half time.
We are judging an interim manager who inherited an unfit team with a broken dressing room. A team which has a huge hole in CDM and doesn't have the capacity to play his style.
This makes no sense. The decision was already made not to hire Rangnick long-term. Could he have done the job long-term ? We can't say and we can't judge on these results. He hasn't been given a fair shake. He needs time and money to turn it around. Now that's all moot since he won't be considered as a candidate for the long-term manager. But the current results are not an indication of his capacity. No coach even SAF could have fixed this. This is the most toxic UTD dressing room in ages. I don't remember a time when there was this much leaks. You got players complaining about the manager, his assistants and each other. Then we had the recent incident. I don't see how any of this is fixable this season.
I think its probably right decision to not go with Rangnick. But I am not putting any blame on him at all for recent results. It's not on him
This makes no sense. The decision was already made not to hire Rangnick long-term. Could he have done the job long-term ? We can't say and we can't judge on these results. He hasn't been given a fair shake. He needs time and money to turn it around. Now that's all moot since he won't be considered as a candidate for the long-term manager. But the current results are not an indication of his capacity. No coach even SAF could have fixed this. This is the most toxic UTD dressing room in ages. I don't remember a time when there was this much leaks. You got players complaining about the manager, his assistants and each other. Then we had the recent incident. I don't see how any of this is fixable this season.
I think its probably right decision to not go with Rangnick. But I am not putting any blame on him at all for recent results. It's not on him
"fortunate wins and individual brilliance and luck was a key part of his success" the Poch fanboy that started this thread won't admit it here but should know his hero files under that sentence also.
What an absolute abomination of a post. There have been some bad ones on here but that is just utter tripe.
There probably is a very interesting discussion about the difference between Ole's "give the players freedom to express themselves" vs a more structured approach under Ralf, but you won't get that on here.
Instead you get absolute nonsensical garbage like this. "Is it better to be good or bad"? Let's create a poll!
Agree, it’s not good enough, but RR is a good manager and I don’t think any other manager would’ve made much difference. It’s very easy to personalise things, but let’s face the fact. United haven’t been able to build a balanced or harmonic squad for the last 10y.
I was optimistic because it looked like United had a strategy they followed loyal and patiently, and then United bought Varane and Ronaldo; tried a quick fix and became to greedy or desperate (read: tighten the gap to City and fight for the title already this season). The result is likely a dead season or one of the worst seasons the last 10y.
Incompetent leaders got what they deserved. They should’ve listened to me and many other people on this forum (not the impatient quick fixers):
United should’ve spent one more season on: consolidating the team, follow the strategy (get rid of more players, await and buy decided targets), emphasis on team building and not care to much about titles.
I’ve been waiting for success a long time, so one year from or to didn’t matter much. I just wanted United to do things properly and right for once. I expected next season to be the big hit and break through for a new fantastic period. Today I’m not very optimistic. We misused an golden opportunity and I think we need another 3y in order to build a competitive club and team (PL/CL title).
This. Our front office and scouts have been abysmal buying and selling players. Ronaldo was really stupid and Varane wasn't much better. Sancho was good but the fact we ignored getting a DM made this season very difficult and ugly. I thought Ole was on the right track but somehow he let people influence him to jump on the Ronaldo bandwagon. And now letting Pogba and Lindegard go on a free is just poor business.
With Ole even when we won it always seemed like sooner or later the matches would come where we’d get battered 3-4 nil.
With Rangnick it seems like sooner or later we’re gonna start battering teams 3-4 nil.
With Rangnick it seems like sooner or later we’re gonna start battering teams 3-4 nil.
Unfair to compare, as RR is interim..and he's just getting us through this season. Ole had to go everyone agreed with that, but by putting RR in temporary means the guy that wants to come is already in a job? Hindsight maybe should have kept Ole till end of season, but then we would still be in same situation.
Nail on the head...
Yes, totally agree with all of this. The fact that the entire club is in a mess cannot be blamed on an interim manager. Some people must have thought we were hiring Superman. Just to let everyone in on it, He doesn't exist. Ralf has done more than enough to deserve some patience and a ton of respect.
The way it is phrased might be confusing, but basically it is would you have the team performing well and not getting result, or the team performing badly and getting result. The latter was a theme throughout Ole tenure, which mislead many fans on here. The former is a theme that is seen with ralf, but as it appears we are struggling to get the right result against poor opposition, which could leave us missing champion league football
Is the football stellar under Ralf? Not exactly, but we're undergoing a different style of play and let's be honest, he's been handed with a dire situation in his hands and has been basically forced to work with what he's got. It's not like he has much of an expectation to finish top 4, either.
Ole has been given the kind of money any manager would beg to have and has failed to deliver.
Ole has been given the kind of money any manager would beg to have and has failed to deliver.
Well in light of all the draws we have had, I remember there was a time under OGS when we were getting too many draws and not enough goals. I call it a new manager bounce until I see better results.
And I really hope we address the massive hole in CDM this summer, fcuk me it will make a world of difference for the team. Until we see the holes in the team sorted, we won't be getting any better no matter who the manager is.
And I really hope we address the massive hole in CDM this summer, fcuk me it will make a world of difference for the team. Until we see the holes in the team sorted, we won't be getting any better no matter who the manager is.
Stop this nonsense. Intellectual dishinesty at its finest. Ralf didn't even inherit the exact same team. Martial and Greenwood are gone. Ole's supposed superior results came after spending 130m on his players in his first transfer window. The situations aren't operating on equal standing.
System football also has a different curve to individual play where it takes longer to implement but leads to better more sustainable long term yield. We haven't reached anywhere close to the point in the curve where you can ask Ralf to produce more. He just got here.
Also if anyone thinks we played better football under Ole then I'm going to be straight up rude and say they haven't a clue what patterns of play actually look like and it's no wonder they thought Ole was doing well on the performance front. Maybe try watching the game in x0.25. Sorry but this kind of willful blindness to what is happening before our very eyes is how we ended up 4 years without a trophy having to start yet another rebuild.
System football also has a different curve to individual play where it takes longer to implement but leads to better more sustainable long term yield. We haven't reached anywhere close to the point in the curve where you can ask Ralf to produce more. He just got here.
Also if anyone thinks we played better football under Ole then I'm going to be straight up rude and say they haven't a clue what patterns of play actually look like and it's no wonder they thought Ole was doing well on the performance front. Maybe try watching the game in x0.25. Sorry but this kind of willful blindness to what is happening before our very eyes is how we ended up 4 years without a trophy having to start yet another rebuild.
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I am starting to believe that Ralph actually doesn't know what he is doing. Only kidding, I can't understand why his result has been so poor though. I like how he incorporated elanga into the team and improved Fred. Our football has improved, but the result is worse than it is under Ole. I would be careful about giving Ralph to much power in the club after seeing what he is capable of doing as a manager.
At least we've put an end to regularly winning games on individual brilliance under Ralf. Nowadays we don't win games at all.
Ole's still been worse this season.
His xGD was negative and our actual GD when he got sacked was 0 I'm pretty sure.
Ralf has been bad, but Ole was terrible this season.
His xGD was negative and our actual GD when he got sacked was 0 I'm pretty sure.
Ralf has been bad, but Ole was terrible this season.
I think we'd be marginally better with Ole but I'm sure we'd still be missing out on top 4 after this season's nosedive, so it's not like it'd make any difference if we have a few more points.
What sacking Ole and appointing an interim that becomes a consultant does bring is the consultant will have first hand experience of the team and setup. Sacking Ole at the end of this season would have meant no handover to the new manager who we need to hit the ground running.
What sacking Ole and appointing an interim that becomes a consultant does bring is the consultant will have first hand experience of the team and setup. Sacking Ole at the end of this season would have meant no handover to the new manager who we need to hit the ground running.
and yet, how big of a failure RR is, somehow with all win % difference and league positions, Ole is still worse and did more harm, you have to be next level to achieve that.
GD under RR is currently +2, that's from 8 more games than Ole (Ole had the first 12, RR's had the last 20)
Truth of the situation is Ole was terrible this season and RR's been worse
There’s really no point in comparing. They’ve both completely failed. It does nothing but add to the toxicity to try and compare shit against shit as neither will be managing the team going forward.
Ole was sacked for a reason when he was and rightly so. I don't think Ralf's record being slightly better than Ole's record this season is at all flattering for Ralf (can't believe some people think it is).
If Ole had those 8 extra games with how we were playing, our GD likely goes negative.
It isn't at all.
It is telling though just how awful Ole was this season. I've already seen people today suggest we would have made top 4 if Ole was kept in the job.
The players stopped playing for Ole. We were in relegation form towards the end. God knows where it would have ended if he'd stayed on longer.
The players have never warmed to Ralf right from the go. They checked out this season especially after the CL exit.
The players have never warmed to Ralf right from the go. They checked out this season especially after the CL exit.
What do you mean how we were playing? There's been no difference and thats the problem
We were worse under Ole. Our xGD was negative. We were gaining points we shouldn't have been gaining at all.
Ralf came in and is just slightly less shit. Our points per game has improved, but minimally.
Ole created this situation, Ralf got a shit hand and hasn't been able to make anything of it. The situations aren't at all comparable.
We were a team reliant of individual brilliance and once those individuals stopped we sank. I'm not going to criticise Ralf for not being able to turn Rashford and Bruno's form around.
We were a team reliant of individual brilliance and once those individuals stopped we sank. I'm not going to criticise Ralf for not being able to turn Rashford and Bruno's form around.
Performances under both managers have been soulless. In our current state, stats mean very little. All we want to see is a performance that shows an iota of commitment and graft. Both managers have failed to deliver that. But RR was meant to be an interim and will leave as one, so I'm less critical of his efforts.
Pointless to waste time discussing about either of them. It's time to move on and start looking ahead to the arrival of the Pep Guardiola is my idol.
Since that phrase has been tampered with let me rephrase and say The Hairless One.
Since that phrase has been tampered with let me rephrase and say The Hairless One.
Ole began the rot and it has festered.
The concept of rewarding failure and consistently playing out of form players collapsed this club.
Maguire. Rashford. etc were untouchable under Ole. They could drop.1/10 performances for weeks and they would keep their place in the first team.
Ole transformed them into demigods till those players started believing in the hype. Man Utd have to get rid of that culture before they can get back to their glory days.
The concept of rewarding failure and consistently playing out of form players collapsed this club.
Maguire. Rashford. etc were untouchable under Ole. They could drop.1/10 performances for weeks and they would keep their place in the first team.
Ole transformed them into demigods till those players started believing in the hype. Man Utd have to get rid of that culture before they can get back to their glory days.
It definitely isn't, but really it seems Ralf was brought in more for his role as future consultant and not his managerial ability, since let's be honest he doesn't have much history as a top manager. While it's not ideal that we basically wrote this season off with so much left to play, I'd rather the club went this route and got their first choice in the summer, which we appear to have done with Ten Hag, rather than appoint someone midseason and end up giving them the job full time off one good run as happened with Ole, which would be worse for us long term
Even though I understand the route we've taken, I don't agree with the fact that we have brought a consultant in the role of the manager. We should have signed a manager for the manager role, give 6 months and regardless of results bring ETH in the summer. It's not like ETH conditioned his approval to come here if Ralf was our manager for 6 months.
We have basically sabotaged this season by appointing Ralf.
Ralf has basically mentioned that players are defying him. These comparisons would have made sense if we have professional players
There probably weren't many managers willing to come in for just six months, no matter how good their performance, with rangnick we got someone who was definitely going to move to a different role after the six months were up.
He didn't but he didn't stop it either.
Many players have been a disgrace this season so comparisons are useless. Any manager would have looked terrible with our lot. Ole looks worse because he actually got a tune out of them and then lost them.
Still think this way?