I tell you what, if @Amadaeus doesn’t win poster of the year then we’ve been absolutely robbed.
Ralf vs Ole ( performance vs result)
- Thread starter Amadaeus
- Start date
That’s just not true
6 at the back, McFred always in front of our defence, counter attack, or pray for luck. Greece in the Euros.
Ole had us getting pumped by 4/5 goals at home. We were a complete mess and laughing when he left. That's the season full of great results that he got to set up this super season.
Yeah we need a proper manager who we have to fully trust and also we don't hand him big name stars who will be tactical headaches for him, like Ronaldo. It will depressing for us to bag a Ten Haag and then see him having to the likes of Rashford, Ronaldo and co in who in turn wear down the implementation of his ideas.
Ask the same question after a United win and the responses will be very different. The Internet is a funny place
Ole produced the better performances and results in the short term as interim. If Ralf doesn't get us into top 4 then I'll stick with Ole having done the better job.
Any other comparison is moot at least for now, especially since we will be getting a new manager for next season. This club's in such a mess.
Any other comparison is moot at least for now, especially since we will be getting a new manager for next season. This club's in such a mess.
Hold on mate. We’ve got a hellish March fixture list. April ain’t no picnic either.
Why is this even a question. Ralph is left undoing all of the mistakes made by olly he hasn’t even had chance to mould a team of his own. In spite of our lack of goals today our shape and play was far superior than ole. The issue is even though Ralph will never say it publicly is that he has an aged ronaldo who is 37 being asked to play every game because Cavani is constantly crocked. His best midfielder is 35 matic and can only last 65 to 70 minutes. This will get worse before it gets better, but trust a process, give Ralph a director role get in ten Haag let them slowly move the players out and the right ones in and in 4 or five years we could do it. I think it’s imperative that we stay on the path we have chosen and give Ralph the power to make real change. If you are genuinely even thinking this is a debate then you don’t know anything about football and your stupidity is the reason the glazers win. If we were UNITED we could get these leeches out, but instead we debate about ole ball and Ralf and think it’s a question all the time the glazers are counting their dividends. Idiotic thread
Get off the drugs. If we had kept Ole we'd be in a worse position. Even most Ole fans can accept this now.
No point in comparing. Ralf is natural progression post Ole.
Doesn't change the fact that Ole was shite though.
There’s some cherry picking
Ole managed 29 games that interim season, he was absolutely astonishingly shite in his final month of the season. He won 2 of the last 10 games, losing 6.
Your argument then, “he needs his own players before we can pass judgement”.
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Not ole, Carrick and mckenna. Carrick short time in the dugout, we actually didn't play that badly. Plus mckenna isn't that bad as well.
Totally agree.
Ole was a dead man walking for a while. Should have been sacked last season. If Rangnick does worse from now on till the end of the season, it still wouldn't make the decision to sack Ole, any less logical
How you can even compare the two, when one had 3 years and over 400 mill to spend and the other has had 3 months and has had to pick from the others players is ridiculous. Put another way if it was the other way around I am sure we would be in a lot better position if RR had the last 3 years his own staff and 400 mill to spend.
The sample size is way too small to draw a conclusion. They were doing the coaching under Ole by all accounts anyway so share pretty much all the blame.
Good post. Agree with every single word
We all agree everything went wrong this season, and Ralph had to improve defense in order to steady the ship.
Ole and the players aimed to challenge for the title this season and when the team experienced a couple of heavy blows, the players had a mental meltdown.
The arrival of Ronaldo disturbed the unity and the power balance within the team, making the “recovery” more difficult. The English fraction was marginalised and the “foreign” fraction had gained power.
In retrospect it wasn’t a smart move by the club. We don’t need more than one Portuguese waving around with negative body language,and we also have to take into account half of the foreign fraction is supposed to leave the club, example Matic, Pogba, Bailly.
It was perhaps stupid to introduce the talk about the “English core”, but it was even more stupid to suddenly move away from that strategy on impulse. The English core was suppose to be the continuity and future of the club.
I wish we had went for Rice instead of Ronaldo. I think everything would’ve looked different today.
Kin ell.
We’d still be without a striker, and we’d still have a midfield unable to control a game or deal with a high press.
Stop this daft idea we’re a Declan Rice away from suddenly being a top team. He’d have helped us defensively but we’d still be crap at keeping the ball, finishing chances etc.
We look nothing like Liverpool pre VVD, where a final piece of a jigsaw was clearly missing, we’re miles off that.
Wow, this thread. Its actually mind blowing and also explains a lot at the same time.
Luck never lasts. The writing was on the wall for Ole for almost his entire tenure because he wasn't improving the bottom line. Good performances and poor results will almost always turn into good results. Poor performances and good results will always turn. 100% of the time. I'm just amazed it took so long for Oles luck to run out.
Luck never lasts. The writing was on the wall for Ole for almost his entire tenure because he wasn't improving the bottom line. Good performances and poor results will almost always turn into good results. Poor performances and good results will always turn. 100% of the time. I'm just amazed it took so long for Oles luck to run out.
I honestly think that if we signed Rice instead of Ronaldo then Ole would still be in a job. We wouldn't be a world class team or even close to competing for the league but we also wouldn't have fallen off a cliff at the start of the season and that was the only thing that would lose Ole his job. It took them about 4 weeks longer than it should to sack him based on results so it wouldn't have taken much for them to have stuck with him.
If we didn't sign Ronaldo, Martial wouldn't have gone out on loan, perhaps our other forwards would have got more game time and be in better form. Who knows. Lot of what ifs.
I'm just glad that Ole is gone and that we have a slim chance at slowly turning into a proper football club again. My hopes are all I have for that though because the high ups have squandered every opportunity to do this over the last 15 or so years.
Our players are missing actual open net chances and tap ins from 3 yards out every single match. There is no way you can blame Ralf for us dropping points recently- it’s entirely on the players.
Unless RR enters one of Ole's famous shit form runs he will be considered the better manager.
Should compare Ole as interim Vs Ralf as interim
Not a fair comparison to compare 3 yrs Vs 3 months
Not a fair comparison to compare 3 yrs Vs 3 months
What was Ole’s win % this season? Because that’s the only fair comparison, obviously.
PPG a better metric than win % anyway. Again, for obvious reasons.
That's not even a contest. Ole wins that hands down. More PTS. More goals. Better performances.
I think some folk on here grossly over rate Rangnick. He wouldn't have achieved anymore than Ole has over 3 years. We'd still not been as good as City or Liverpool would we?
The interim vs interim comparison is even more stupid, as it’s the biggest possible gap in terms of time.
The one and only useful and fair comparison is from this season. Why don’t you do the maths?
And I say “fair” but you’re comparing Ole’s results with a squad he built for hundreds lf millions of pounds over two years with a squad Ralf had no input into and hasn’t signed a single player. A squad we can all see is an absolute fecking shambles.
Why is that unfair out of interest? When the season started most people on here agreed we have a better squad now than the one Ole took over. Remember we were meant to challenge this season with Varane Sancho and Ronaldo?
I feel like you and plenty of others just want to blame Ole for everything. This guy hasn't been any better at all. In fact he's been worse given who we've played.
Just hearing same excuses constantly.
If you conveniently forget the final 10 game clusterfeck
Well that would be when he became permanent wouldn't it? The question was interim v interim.
Ole got us 2nd and 3rd. It was hardly disastrous. How long until we get there again? Probably 3-4 years I reckon minimum.
Not sure if such a thread is allowed, but since we have the Messi vs Ronaldo thread, I will give it a shot
So, if you had to choose one, which route do you think is more ideal? Under Ole, we had a lot of fortunate wins and individual brilliance and luck was a key part of his success. However, under Ralf we have seen better performances, but we can’t seem to get the right result. Would it have been better to stick with luck rather than improvement in our gameplan?
My opinion, I rather have better performance to be honest even though, we are struggling to beat average side.
100% performances, especially since we're not challenging for major trophies right now. The only time you put up with horrible performances but grinding out results is when you're really in the mix at the business end of a competition.
Better individuals will turn into better results if the framework is there. I honestly believe if we had Haaland, Salah or Mbappe in our side this season, we would have 12pts extra now - all other things being equal
It’s unfair for obvious reasons, as I said. This season we’ve had all our England players in rotten form, Cavani constantly unavailable and the whole Ronaldo cluster-feck. You can add to that the Greenwood disaster but that’s a problem Ole avoided. So even comparing this season alone slightly favours Ole. It’s still fairer than any other attempt at comparison.
This.
people need to build themselves a bridge and get the feck over it
It took Rangnick a while to realise his 4-2-2-2 wasn't suited to the players he had at his disposal but once he changed his system the performances have been improving if not the results. Ole wasn't flexible enough and used the same group of players in his rigid 4-2-3-1 system which highlited just how limited he was as a manager.
Ralf may not be the best manager out there but at the very least he's tried everything to get us ticking as a team. Ole in a million years wouldn't have dropped players like Rashford, AWB, Shaw, Maquire or Bruno and my own personal opinion is if given a full season and signing the type of players he wants Ralf would undoubtedly become a much more accomplished manager than Ole with both the results and performances improving.
Given the choice between Ole or Ralf I'd go for Ralf every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Given the choice between Ralf or ETH/Poch then I'm going for the latter. It's pointless comparing the 2 when one had 3 years with a lot of money spent while the other is only here as an interim but I still think it's the best bit of business the club has done in a long time. There's now no hiding place for the players and they're now being held accountable which is a big first step if we want to get back to winning titles.
Hopefully now we get the best of both worlds. Having an advisor to the DOF knowing exactly what needs to happen and isnt afraid to implement his vision and hiring a manager good enough to put it all into practice is the only way forward, instead of stagnating as a club which is exactly what would of happened if Ole and his mates had of stayed on. Welcome to the 21st century United.
Ralf may not be the best manager out there but at the very least he's tried everything to get us ticking as a team. Ole in a million years wouldn't have dropped players like Rashford, AWB, Shaw, Maquire or Bruno and my own personal opinion is if given a full season and signing the type of players he wants Ralf would undoubtedly become a much more accomplished manager than Ole with both the results and performances improving.
Given the choice between Ole or Ralf I'd go for Ralf every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Given the choice between Ralf or ETH/Poch then I'm going for the latter. It's pointless comparing the 2 when one had 3 years with a lot of money spent while the other is only here as an interim but I still think it's the best bit of business the club has done in a long time. There's now no hiding place for the players and they're now being held accountable which is a big first step if we want to get back to winning titles.
Hopefully now we get the best of both worlds. Having an advisor to the DOF knowing exactly what needs to happen and isnt afraid to implement his vision and hiring a manager good enough to put it all into practice is the only way forward, instead of stagnating as a club which is exactly what would of happened if Ole and his mates had of stayed on. Welcome to the 21st century United.
Ole did spend 400 mil for the "no success" though.
At the other side I hope there's a competent manager because the one we have now can't beat Watford, Newcastle, Burnley, Wolves, Southampton, Middlesbrough etc.
You do realise the former manager who you’re defending couldn’t just not beat Watford with the exact same squad, he got spanked 4-1 by them? And got beat by Young Boys? Got beaten by Aston Villa, also couldn’t beat Southampton.
And in his own first part season he couldn’t beat the likes of Huddersfield, and was beaten by the likes of fecking Cardiff and Wolves (twice)