Ralf vs Ole ( performance vs result)

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
There’s some cherry picking :lol:

Ole managed 29 games that interim season, he was absolutely astonishingly shite in his final month of the season. He won 2 of the last 10 games, losing 6.
Your argument then, “he needs his own players before we can pass judgement”.
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:lol:

The final game of that season when we lost 2-0 at home against Cardiff was terrifyingly bad. Under Ole, despite the occasional highs, the lows were diabolical.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
At the other side I hope there's a competent manager because the one we have now can't beat Watford, Newcastle, Burnley, Wolves, Southampton, Middlesbrough etc.
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Not sure what your point is, do you pine for ole back still?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You do realise the former manager who you’re defending couldn’t just not beat Watford with the exact same squad, he got spanked 4-1 by them?
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Only right at the end when the wheels came off. It's hardly an inspiring start from Ralf. Ole at least did have that.

I think a lot of people forget about some of the results Ole got with us. Beat City more times than just about anyone else did. PSG twice. Beat the scousers in the cup. Regular good results versus Chelsea which we've always struggled with.

Go look back. It wasn't the disaster it was described as. United fans are getting less and less patient. The next manager has a hell of a job on his hands.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Only right at the end when the wheels came off. It's hardly an inspiring start from Ralf. Ole at least did have that.
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The wheels hadn’t come off when he couldn’t beat Southampton, and the wheels hadn’t come off when he got beat by fecking Young Boys so stop making absolutely nonsensical excuses. The wheels also hadn’t come off when he got beaten by Aston Villa.

In his own first season he got beaten by one of the teams you mention there (wolves) twice, and was beaten diabolically by fecking Cardiff at home and drew to the horrendously poor Huddersfield.

Ole’s start was only inspiring if you completely ignore that his final 10 games of that season were basically a sackable run of results for any manager.

As for Ralf, he’s doing much better this season with Ole’s 400m assembled squad than Ole was doing himself, that’s the main thing for me. Would he do better than Ole if he had 3 seasons and 400 million quid, well considering how much better he’s been with Ole’s squad than Ole this season, I’d imagine yes.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Not at all. I don't want this guy anywhere near the job though.
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Your last posts indicate otherwise. If its an issue with ralf, the worst, topical, thread of the year seems like poor choice to post your concerns about the current manager
 
Ralf is interim manager. I do find it odd how much he's getting compared to managers of the past. He's not been hired as the long term answer, yet you see so much rage on here like he's got a 7 year contract.
 
rich club with expencieve players and mediocre results. is there any other team like manutd ?
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Well that would be when he became permanent wouldn't it? The question was interim v interim.

Ole got us 2nd and 3rd. It was hardly disastrous. How long until we get there again? Probably 3-4 years I reckon minimum.
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And where do you think we'd be right now if Ole had of stayed on? I'm betting my mortgage we'd be a lot further down the table even if Ralf hasn't exactly set the world on fire

Nou_Camp99 said:
Only right at the end when the wheels came off. It's hardly an inspiring start from Ralf. Ole at least did have that.

I think a lot of people forget about some of the results Ole got with us. Beat City more times than just about anyone else did. PSG twice. Beat the scousers in the cup. Regular good results versus Chelsea which we've always struggled with.

Go look back. It wasn't the disaster it was described as. United fans are getting less and less patient. The next manager has a hell of a job on his hands.
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Ole beat big teams is a true statement but mainly because he was an unknown quantity. Once opposing managers learnt how to play against us which let's face it was within a very short time period he didn't have the experience or know-how to compete. How many top sides did we win against last season? His tenure was only going to go in one direction. Getting good results the odd time is by no means the best metric to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world which shows just how far standards have fallen.
 
Judas said:
Ralf is interim manager. I do find it odd how much he's getting compared to managers of the past. He's not been hired as the long term answer, yet you see so much rage on here like he's got a 7 year contract.
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It's certainly a crazy world we live in. All that energy expended for no apparent reason.
 
I’m not sure comparing managers is going to help with the availability actual problem which is the club-wide malaise stemming from our owners. The culture at this club is completely wrong. The players were completely capable of winning yesterday but didn’t have the mentality to. Ralf had to stick with a player bought for marketing purposes rather than changing the lineup/system in the game to try and get the winner. We won’t get anywhere until the ownership changes.
 
Ole results went bad once we couldn't rely on individuals, particularly Bruno. The performances have always been rather poor apart from one-off games.
I feel for Ralf to be honest, I don't see any other (interim) manager getting more of that team considering the "state" Ronaldo is in, Rashford not looking like a professional footballer and Greenwood gone. Just everything went to shite in a span of few months.
 
Don't understand why people can't see the difference in our play.

I was an Ole in at the end of last season, but I was getting more frustrated with the football and lack of identity or even play. I have the feeling that Ole was bullshiting the players and RR is the polar opposite, just like Ole was the polar opposite to Jose Mourinho.

van de Beek is an example of that I feel, Ralf didn't mess around and let him leave on loan - I think if Ole was still here he'd be still be sat on the bench at United, Maguire would have also played last game.
 
I don't know how fans cannot see the improvement under Ralf. Under Ole, we have the talent but no team. Our football is always fragmented and scores are bailed out through individual brilliance. Currently, i see more teamwork, obvious traits and plays which are a result of meticulous works on the training ground. Only negative is lack of quality finishing which cannot be attributed to the manager.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Only right at the end when the wheels came off. It's hardly an inspiring start from Ralf. Ole at least did have that.

I think a lot of people forget about some of the results Ole got with us. Beat City more times than just about anyone else did. PSG twice. Beat the scousers in the cup. Regular good results versus Chelsea which we've always struggled with.

Go look back. It wasn't the disaster it was described as. United fans are getting less and less patient. The next manager has a hell of a job on his hands.
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Hey @Nou_Camp99 , here’s a time machine for you: it’s 2055 and you’re still trying to defend Ole’s failed stint as a United manager. Let it go :lol::lol:
 
Amadaeus said:
Not sure if such a thread is allowed, but since we have the Messi vs Ronaldo thread, I will give it a shot :). Mods if you can add poll that will be appreciated.

So, if you had to choose one, which route do you think is more ideal? Under Ole, we had a lot of fortunate wins and individual brilliance and luck was a key part of his success. However, under Ralf we have seen better performances, but we can’t seem to get the right result. Would it have been better to stick with luck rather than improvement in our gameplan?
My opinion, I rather have better performance to be honest even though, we are struggling to beat average side.
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the last month in Oles reign contained probably the worst results in my lifetime following United

so it’s an easy choice
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
The wheels hadn’t come off when he couldn’t beat Southampton, and the wheels hadn’t come off when he got beat by fecking Young Boys so stop making absolutely nonsensical excuses. The wheels also hadn’t come off when he got beaten by Aston Villa.

In his own first season he got beaten by one of the teams you mention there (wolves) twice, and was beaten diabolically by fecking Cardiff at home and drew to the horrendously poor Huddersfield.

Ole’s start was only inspiring if you completely ignore that his final 10 games of that season were basically a sackable run of results for any manager.

As for Ralf, he’s doing much better this season with Ole’s 400m assembled squad than Ole was doing himself, that’s the main thing for me. Would he do better than Ole if he had 3 seasons and 400 million quid, well considering how much better he’s been with Ole’s squad than Ole this season, I’d imagine yes.
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You’re spot on, I think a lot of people have forgotten Ole’s run after he got the job permanently. Do you remember when we got battered by Everton 4-0? Ralf hasn’t had a result or performance as bad as that.
 
Grib said:
Your last posts indicate otherwise. If its an issue with ralf, the worst, topical, thread of the year seems like poor choice to post your concerns about the current manager
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No it doesn't at all. I don't want Ole back and I don't want this nobody in charge either.

I do think Ole gets way more disrespect than he deserves. To get 2nd and 3rd with some of these players is actually an achievement. Hahaha
 
Ralph1386 said:
Hey @Nou_Camp99 , here’s a time machine for you: it’s 2055 and you’re still trying to defend Ole’s failed stint as a United manager. Let it go :lol::lol:
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I don't class 2nd and 3rd as failure as such.

One of Klopp and Pep are going to come 2nd in 10 weeks time. Tuchel won't even get that.

Letting Ole go was the right call but it wasn't the worst 3 years in our history. Not even close actually.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
I don't class 2nd and 3rd as failure as such.
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Did Mourinho not fail here then also now? feck me, he got more points finishing second, and his other full season was a 2 trophy season. He also spent a shitload and left us in a mess, just like Ole.
There’s no way Mourinho wasn’t a failure at United.
Ole spent a record amount of money, won feck all, averaged a lot less points per game than Mourinho, and won feck all.
 
ultratt5 said:
Sounds like when Ole was the intern manager and comparing mou and ole. Ole was here to steady the ship. Now ralf is here to steady the ship. looping
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Ole did steady the ship, but we made the mistake of extending Ole’s contract last June. We had a golden opportunity to thank Ole for his service and bring in a proper manager. For whatever reason, the board felt Ole was the right man for the job for years to come. It was clear to many at the time that this was not a wise choice.
 
lilcurt said:
This season under Ole. We lost to Villa, Watford, Leicester. Destroyed by City and Liverpool. An other than Leeds, didn't have a single good performance.

No point looking at previous seasons, we never played decent football and there wasn't a manager anywhere near as lucky in terms of playing poor but snatching the result, of that can't lead you to trophies which sees you losing finals to teams like Villarreal.

I love Ole, but he was an awful manager who has built a terrible squad of misfits.
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It's impossible to come in 2nd in the PL with luck. I think it was SAF that said the table never lies. Yet, you think we never played decent football and somehow lucked our way to 2nd. Okay.
 
Reditus said:
Ole had two good seasons. Finished 3rd and 2nd. I enjoyed most of his time with the club especially after how depressing Jose’s last 18 months were

Things went horribly and spectacularly wrong under Ole this season. Ralf has steadied the ship somewhat and at times I have seen improvements

I maintain our biggest problem and cause is Ronaldo. The sooner he is gone the better
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Totally agree. I would bet that Ole did not want Ronaldo and the board forced him to take embrace him. Ronaldo and his agent fooled Woody and United with the City fake move to get us to give Ronaldo a big contract. Before Ronaldo, we had nice momentum and I think good team spirit going into the season after a good season and adding Sancho and Varane. The only thing missing was a good DM and instead of getting a DM we got Ronaldo. I have no proof but I think it's possible Ronaldo led the revolt against Ole and that's why we saw the really poor results the last few matches under Ole.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
There’s some cherry picking :lol:

Ole managed 29 games that interim season, he was absolutely astonishingly shite in his final month of the season. He won 2 of the last 10 games, losing 6.
Your argument then, “he needs his own players before we can pass judgement”.
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If I remember correctly part of the start of the poor results when interim manager was when we had two injuries during the first leg against PSG. The free wheeling play had to be curtailed because of a thin squad and a congested schedule. He could have done a little better no doubt but his hands were tied with the squad because of injuries.
 
gerdm07 said:
Before Ronaldo, we had nice momentum and I think good team spirit going into the season after a good season and adding Sancho and Varane. The only thing missing was a good DM and instead of getting a DM we got Ronaldo.
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No we didn’t. Our performances were dreadful at the end of last season, and it was only this season that the results caught up with these bad performances. Our players did not even look like they trained together. Why else do you think that many fans were up in arms when he was offered a new contract this year? Even this season before Ronaldo came, we were bad against Southampton and extremely lucky to nick a goal against Wolves when we won 1-0.

gerdm07 said:
I have no proof but I think it's possible Ronaldo led the revolt against Ole and that's why we saw the really poor results the last few matches under Ole.
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If it wasn’t for Ronaldo’s goals against Atalanta and against Tottenham away, Ole would have been sacked way sooner. It was actually other players who downed tools in the end. Ronaldo’s form suffered starting in January this year when Ole had already left.
 
Ralph1386 said:
No we didn’t. Our performances were dreadful at the end of last season, and it was only this season that the results caught up with these bad performances. Our players did not even look like they trained together. Why else do you think that many fans were up in arms when he was offered a new contract this year? Even this season before Ronaldo came, we were bad against Southampton and extremely lucky to nick a goal against Wolves when we won 1-0.


If it wasn’t for Ronaldo’s goals against Atalanta and against Tottenham away, Ole would have been sacked way sooner. It was actually other players who downed tools in the end. Ronaldo’s form suffered starting in January this year when Ole had already left.
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We expected a slow start to the season because of the Euro Cup and the delay for starting training for many players. At least I did.

Then Ronaldo came in and debuted September 11. Ronaldo started well but when you think about it we only had one good month of results with Ronaldo and that was September. And Young Boys was in September so it wasn't that great.

When Ole had a good squad to choose from he actually got good results. When he had Lingard, Andreas and other players at that level starting he didn't get results.
 
gerdm07 said:
When Ole had a good squad to choose from he actually got good results.
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He faced the sack multiple times during his tenure by his own admission, not only when he had Andreas and Lingard to choose from. Saying he got good results is a complete overstatement. We bottled it under him in every match where we could have won something.

Also, regarding his second place finish, he said himself before coming that second place was not good enough for a club like Man United. Of course, he was talking about Mourinho back then.
 
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gerdm07 said:
We expected a slow start to the season because of the Euro Cup and the delay for starting training for many players. At least I did.
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The performances against Southampton and Wolves were exactly the same kind of performances we were putting out at the end of last season before the Euros. Players looked like they were coming out there with no direction or style of play. The Villeareal final was a proof of that from beginning to end.
 
Ole was a big problem but Ralf is a good manager and that fact is showing the players are a lot to blame I dont know why or what the problem is attitude laziness dressing room unrest no idea but even if we had Klopp Tuchel or Pep I dont think we would be much better.
 
The problem with this question is the Ole outers who wanted him gone as soon as he was made permanent manager will portray his entire tenure as the last few months

Anyone will ounce of sense though will look at Ole's interim stint, plus his first two full seasons in charge and clearly see whether it was an over reliance on individual brilliance, counter attacking football or just blind luck it was infinitely better than the shower of utter shit we've seen under RR
 
Ralph1386 said:
He faced the sack multiple times during his tenure by his own admission, not only when he had Andreas and Lingard to choose from. Saying he got good results is a complete overstatement. We bottled it under him in every match where we could have won something.

Also, regarding his second place finish, he said himself before coming that second place was not good enough for a club like Man United. Of course, he was talking about Mourinho back then.
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His first 13 matches or so we did great and we were flying. Injuries vs PSG and later made the rest of the season a slog.

We sucked in Fall of 2019 because we had players like Andreas leading the attack. Bruno comes in January (and I think Rashford and Pogba were back from injury) and we do well. At the restart Ole had a full squad and we did very well for a while and surged to 3rd. The last few matches were tough but fatigue was probably the main reason, not Ole.

2020/2021 we finish a distant 2nd to City. All in all it was a good season except for not winning the final of EL. Getting to the final is good though. The last part of the season was a struggle but, again, fatigue was a factor. Ole's biggest problem that season was he didn't rotate enough to keep fresh legs, however, the squad was pretty thin so it was tough.

2021/2022. Late training start and then Ronaldo comes in. Ronaldo really disrupted all the plans Ole had for the season and, I think, disrupted the locker room cohesion that was built of the past 2 years. By mid October it was clear Ole lost the locker room and everything falls a part.

When he had a good squad to choose from Ole did well. It's not rocket science, good players win matches.
 
Dan_F said:
This argument is quite funny about Ole. Crazy how those same players were able to produce so many moments of individual brilliance and now can’t finish and are terrible.

We are playing solid football now, but it’s completely uninspiring.
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I struggle to understand how anyone can look at our football now versus under Ole this season, and find Ralfs the more uninspiring.

I get that we at the moment have a hard time putting together 60-90 minutes of convincing football. But we still show signs of actual dominance in all the matches, while we avoid complete implosion the rest of the time.

To me, our first half against Watford was much more joyful and exciting to watch than more or less the sum of all games under Ole this season. It didn’t look random or unintended at all. There was pace, fluidity and intent.
It wasn’t perfect. But we were in total control, and created more than enough to effectively close the match with a 3-0 lead going in to half time.

That was a 1/10 scenario under Ole, but under Ralf it’s a 8/10 scenario.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Did Mourinho not fail here then also now? feck me, he got more points finishing second, and his other full season was a 2 trophy season. He also spent a shitload and left us in a mess, just like Ole.
There’s no way Mourinho wasn’t a failure at United.
Ole spent a record amount of money, won feck all, averaged a lot less points per game than Mourinho, and won feck all.
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He didn't fail the season he came 2nd, no.
 
gerdm07 said:
His first 13 matches or so we did great and we were flying. Injuries vs PSG and later made the rest of the season a slog.

We sucked in Fall of 2019 because we had players like Andreas leading the attack. Bruno comes in January (and I think Rashford and Pogba were back from injury) and we do well. At the restart Ole had a full squad and we did very well for a while and surged to 3rd. The last few matches were tough but fatigue was probably the main reason, not Ole.

2020/2021 we finish a distant 2nd to City. All in all it was a good season except for not winning the final of EL. Getting to the final is good though. The last part of the season was a struggle but, again, fatigue was a factor. Ole's biggest problem that season was he didn't rotate enough to keep fresh legs, however, the squad was pretty thin so it was tough.

2021/2022. Late training start and then Ronaldo comes in. Ronaldo really disrupted all the plans Ole had for the season and, I think, disrupted the locker room cohesion that was built of the past 2 years. By mid October it was clear Ole lost the locker room and everything falls a part.

When he had a good squad to choose from Ole did well. It's not rocket science, good players win matches.
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So to sum up your post: everything that went right during his tenure was because of him, but everything that went wrong was because of other factors :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Ole had a 54% winning ratio when he got the boot.

Ralf has 47% so far and hasnt played City. Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal yet.

And before people bring up the money Ole spent....he won 9 out of his first 10 games drawing the other, spending no money and we played much better football in that run that anything Rangnick has produced so far.

Ole was never going to deliver a title over Pep and Klopp, granted, but Rangnick never will either.

We need to go and get a world class coach and coaching team this summer. No excuses. If we decide to give Ralf another year it will be another year wasted.
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Nice one OP, now we have this dumbass stat in two threads
 
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