I've seen it explained multiple times now in this thread and the Ralf one. Here's an accurate way of using stats: If the answer to why the 47%/54% stat is crap has not been understood after the dozen or so explanation., it stands to reason that further explanations aren't going to return a different result. We could try 100 to up our sample size and really be sure, but not sure anyone has the energy tbh
Ralf vs Ole ( performance vs result)
- Thread starter Amadaeus
- Start date
We haven't beaten Watford, Burnley, Newcastle, Southampton. Middlesbrough Wolves under him.
Hope you keep this same backing for him after fixtures get tough.
I've seen enough to be sure we are at the least heading in the right direction and that given the circumstances he's actually done a very good job, so yeah prepared for realistic expectations over a tough fixture period and won't be laying into him. Hope you can find any backing for him whatsoever.
vs. PSG…
De Gea, Young, Bailly, Smalling, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Pereira, Rashford, Lukaku.
We then lost miserably to Arsenal with Pereira being replaced by Pogba, and McTom replaced with Matic.
We then lost to Wolves with a similar team but Herrera back.
We lost to Wolves again two games later with a similar team that beat PsG but Rashford now out.
We then lost to Barca with Rashford back, and with an almost identical team to the PsG game.
Then lost to Barca again.
Then got twatted 4-0 by Everton before the City defeat and Cardiff defeat sandwiched by a Huddersfield shit show.
So what massive 2 injuries caused all this? That “curtailed” our swashbuckling football?
When did we play good football outside of his honeymoon period and a brief spell during the first lockdown (four games).
Zero identity, zero tactics, it was bad. Damage can still be seen now with what a Mish mash of a squad we have, players don't bring out each others strengths.
Some context is needed here. This hot garbage is Ole's squad which he spent 415m upon. Rangnick wasn't allowed to buy players, he was thrown in the deep end in the middle of a disastrous season, with no preseason or time to assemble a solid coaching staff. The guy has yet to figure what Phelan and Fletcher do.
Before this season ole had done a good job, unfortunately the wheels come off in spectacular fashion this season pretty much everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.
Rangnick has taken over, put more structure into our play but let's be honest its very drab, quite boring and so far not particuly enjoyable and we have played noone so far.
The football under ole was always exciting, it was chaotic at times and unpredictable, we could look amazing for 20 min then awful for the next 20 mins, but it was never dull. Maybe the structure RR is putting in place will lead us onto future success which of course will make it all worthwhile. But at the moment I am not particularly enjoying watching us.
Rangnick has taken over, put more structure into our play but let's be honest its very drab, quite boring and so far not particuly enjoyable and we have played noone so far.
The football under ole was always exciting, it was chaotic at times and unpredictable, we could look amazing for 20 min then awful for the next 20 mins, but it was never dull. Maybe the structure RR is putting in place will lead us onto future success which of course will make it all worthwhile. But at the moment I am not particularly enjoying watching us.
If you find shit on a stick exciting, sure.
If you enjoy being beaten by Young Boys, twatted by Leicester and Watford, humiliated by City and Liverpool, no trophies and a big spell every season of utterly horrendous sackable football, sure.
I you “enjoyed” the above, more fool you.
Horrible post. You are basically saying OGS is a better manager than Rangnick, which of course is delusional at best. Ole left a mess so deep it’s impossible to salvage in a few months, the new playing style also takes a while to implement - as none of these players have played it before. You have no idea if another year with Rangnick will be a waste or not, absolutely no idea. What is very close to being a fact is that no manager in the world could challenge Pep or Klopp today, they have built two incredibly solid sides - no shame in not competing even next year. Not defending Ralf here, but please leave the utter fiasco and con man Ole out of this. When did you hear from him last? All those job offers he must have gotten the same day he was sacked…
Yeah, I miss "Ole's at the wheel" from Watford fans. That 4-2-4 formation is the worst I ever saw, now I don't think Ole was bad as some say, but that was an absolute rock bottom.
If you are going to be this inpatient with a manager, ten Hag has zero chance. Pep in his first season struggled and he had a functioning team.
If you are going to be this inpatient with a manager, ten Hag has zero chance. Pep in his first season struggled and he had a functioning team.
Ole spent €400,000,000 + and managed 1.86 points per game during his entire stint.
Ralf has spent €0, has had no pre-season, was dropped into a clusterfeck and has still beaten that with 1.88 points per game.
Oles spell wasn't just his worst games or his worst spells though was it, whoever is in charge will have poor spells and poor games. Even the great man SAF had poor spells and some horrible results but you wouldn't run around calling his time in charge shit on a stick because of it.
Ole failed, no arguments there, this season was a shitshow under his management but he did at times get us playing some good and exciting football during his tenure and his spell had some enjoyable games.
So far under Rangnick there hasn't been much to shout about, hopefully that changes in the near future.
Aye, and Ole’s PL points per game over his tenure is much worse (Ralf is at 2 ppg).
The argument will be that Ralf hasn’t played anyone of note yet in the league, but surely you let him play those games before deciding he’s lost them all?
Weird comparison. One won 13 leagues, 2 Champions Leagues and 5 FA Cups, the other won nothing.
That aside, Ole had sackable runs of form every single season he was here, that’s 4 sackable runs of atrocious form whilst spending 400m+. Season 1 final 10 games and season 4 first 16 games the worst, but season 2 and 3 had really rancid runs of performances and results. Not quite the same as SAF or any other manager having a “poor spell”.
The whole comparison is ludicrous anyway. Ralf hasn’t signed a single player so it’s obviously unfair to compare his record to Ole, two years (and hundreds of millions in transfer fees) down the road.
Now he may well still be not good enough but the fact he’s already steadied a ship he didn’t build is pretty solid evidence Ralf’s at least a better manager than Ole.
I believe Rangnick given the money Ole spent over 3 years would create a squad capable of challenging.
Ole didn't do that.
Ole didn't do that.
So to sum up your post: everything that went right during his tenure was because of him, but everything that went wrong was because of other factors
Not sure how you got that conclusion. Maybe you could discuss some actual points I made as that's how forums usually work.
vs. PSG…
De Gea, Young, Bailly, Smalling, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Pereira, Rashford, Lukaku.
We then lost miserably to Arsenal with Pereira being replaced by Pogba, and McTom replaced with Matic.
We then lost to Wolves with a similar team but Herrera back.
We lost to Wolves again two games later with a similar team that beat PsG but Rashford now out.
We then lost to Barca with Rashford back, and with an almost identical team to the PsG game.
Then lost to Barca again.
Then got twatted 4-0 by Everton before the City defeat and Cardiff defeat sandwiched by a Huddersfield shit show.
So what massive 2 injuries caused all this? That “curtailed” our swashbuckling football?
From summary of Utd vs PSG: "Solskjaer's plans were impacted when Jesse Lingard, just before half-time, and Anthony Martial, at the interval, were forced off with injuries". In addition Pogba got a 2nd yellow which meant he was out for the return leg and further if we move on.
After that match we had 16 matches in the 10 weeks. I remember we became a much more conservative team after that match and it seemed to be an obvious decision Ole made in order compete in the PL, CL and FA. You can't go balls out every match if your squad is thin. That's how I remember it.
The current mess is simply overspill of the last 12 months of Ole’s reign. He was allowed to outstay his welcome and the residue of a shitty mess is now being experienced first hand by Ralph.
It would obviously never happen but as an experiment it would be fascinating to see what Klopp or Pep did with this current squad post Ole.
It would obviously never happen but as an experiment it would be fascinating to see what Klopp or Pep did with this current squad post Ole.
You can’t coach players at this level to finish and doing basics….
I am liking what I am seeing with Ralf but seriously if we can’t finish chances, it’s on players and not coach….
I am liking what I am seeing with Ralf but seriously if we can’t finish chances, it’s on players and not coach….
Not much. Klopp didn't make UCL in his 1st year. And this squad is nowhere close to playing Klopp style. There are no magic fixes for this season. It's a wash. This team is broken. Its just a matter of surviving to the end and planning for next season with a new manager, a clear-out and proper recruitment.
Maybe you should read back what you wrote and see how I got that conclusion. All your other replies in this thread are the same as well.
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There was no football under Ole, what are you talking about??????
Counter attacking, that’s it! Players had no sense of positioning, pass, system…. Absolutely nothing….
Atleast Ralf took that donkey out for few matches who is our captain and you can see how much calmer our defence looks (still not great but 100% better)….Telles and Dalot brought in…and much more….
I am sure with his squad, Ralf will Atleast fight for top 3
He should have been sacked after the Sevilla Semi-Final.
We actually beat Chelsea 2-0 after PSG at home, drew at Liverpool, hit Palace, Southampton and PSG away for 3. So I'd say you're memory that those short term injuries to Martial and Lingard started the run of poor results is completely wide of the mark. We were a team high on confidence, and the second the confidence took a hit when Arsenal dominated us, we simply didn't recover.
We had a week off after Arsenal but still got beat by Wolves, and we then had 2 weeks off before beating Watford and losing to Wolves again a few days later. We'd played just 3 games in 23 days after Arsenal and were still beaten twice by Wolves. We didn't play conservative because we had just 3 games in 23 games, we simply turned to shit after Arsenal when the confidence took a hit and the honeymoon was over.
Why? We played well, and created tons of chances. I was told that the manager cannot finish chances for the players.
Yes, it will need a new manager, his own coaching staff, about 6 news players and about 6-8 current players departures. Huge summer for the club after this season’s debacle. Sounds familiar now….
& I was told xG means nothing after our current goal output under RR in recent games.
He should have gone after Sevilla, feel free to change my mind but telling me managers cannot finish chances [I know] ain’t it. Writing was well & truly on the wall that night, flattered to deceive then defeat brushed under the carpet because. . . we played well, Sevilla’s 1.37 looks tidy there too.
So we finished 3rd then 2nd in the PL reached the europa league final 1 europa league semi final, 2 league cup semis and the FA Cup semi under Ole, playing no football?
You don't consistently go deep in cup competitions and finish in the top 3 in the league playing no football. Ole last couple of months was a disaster but let's not forget the good work he has done in the last couple of seasons. Ultimately it wasn't enough and we should expect better but it his reign was far from complete disaster its currently being made to be.
I remember in Ole's last days how plenty of people were saying a compotent coach would get this squad into title winning form. Its seems the narrative has changed now we have a compotent coach to being the squad isnt good enough. We have a real hard run of fixtures coming up they will define our season. From what iv seen i don't have alot of confidence that we are going to get much out of them
Hindsight is oh so wonderful.
Arsenal 10th March lost 0-2
Wolves 16th March lost 1-2
then 14 days (or, as I like to call it “2 weeks”) later
Watford 30th March win 2-1
Wolves 2nd April lost 1-2
What was so hectic about those 3 games in 23 days after Arsenal that had us stop playing swashbuckling and looking like utter shite? A shiteness that would then remain for the rest of the season.
* after 2 weeks off, this is how Sky described our win vs. Watford.
“Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's first game in permanent charge of United was far from comfortable as Watford dominated for large periods and had 20 shots compared to eight from the home side.”
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You do if you outspend most of the other teams in those competitions. But money can only get you so far.
Not everybody was hoodwinked. I was a naysayer from early, that game would have been a nice goodbye.
I stand corrected. I just browsed through that schedule and saw match after match and didn't notice breaks. However, the 2 week break was probably an international break which means over half of our players were probably playng. The break also means that the 16 matches in 10 weeks was even more congested when playing.
I don't remember when it happened, but I distinctly remember we started playing much more conservatively and I'm pretty sure I remarked at the time is was because of the thin squad and congested schedule. Unfortunately, the players and Ole did not adopt well the our results suffered.
”Probably” ”probably”. Erm, at that point Luke Shaw was not playing for England, nor was Smalling nor Jones nor Young, in fact, not even Rashford, we didn’t have a single England player start the international games.
Herrera didn’t play for Spain, Matic didn’t play for Serbia, Dalot didn’t play for Portugal, Martial didn’t play for France. Fred didn’t play for Brazil. In fact, none of those were even in the squads.
Pogba and DDG did play twice for France and Spain respectively though.
It was also 12.5 weeks (or 89 days) between PSG at home and our final game of the season, and we played 17 games. An average of 1 game every 5 days, hardly a gruelling end of season schedule. The only gruelling part was mid April to the end of April, but by then our “swashbuckling” football was already in ruins and we’d been beaten by Arsenal, twice by Wolves and looked absolute turd but somehow nicked a win vs. Watford.
We played just two games in 14 days in May and drew to Huddersfield and got beaten by Cardiff at home.
So stop feeding your false memories, Arsenal burst our confidence bubble, and in all honesty PSG should have been out of sight within 20 minutes, and we simply went to shit once the bubble burst. Nothing to do with Ole being pragmatic because even during the first part of that dogturd run, we were absolutely awful despite plenty of rest and no big injuries.
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I hope our poor finishing of late isn’t deluding some to believe that Ole should not have been sacked.
It shouldn't be, no. We don't all agree on much but we should all be able to agree at least that Ole's situation had become untenable, sadly. You'll get stubborn buggers like myself defending his time here before this season, but not for the sacking.
What bothers me is that our fanbase are simply going to be unable to agree on any manager until one wins a major title, and that's a rather depressing thought. I think Ralf has done rather well so far and I think given more time and a little money he'd have us resembling that thing we all crave, a balanced football team. It's a tough one though. My own personal goal of his was to have us be able to perform on an equal footing with Atletico by the time that tie came around. I'm not convinced we did that, but I think it's beyond question that he's at least steadied the ship. A managers job is to set up a team to create chances, and he is doing okay there. He can't finish them himself.
Seems to be the case
I do wonder how some can’t see Ole was one of the worst choice we’ve made as a club
Brilliant interim, stabilised the ship and then should of moved off and called a hero for ever more. Instead I hold him largely responsible for yet another failed rebuild.
only time he got results was during the pandemic, for a short period when competition was low
I’d like us to be competing at all times and Ole just didn’t cut it
Ralf is just here until the summer, in his short time he’s had an impact on our style of play. Made us hard to beat, next step would be making us potent in attack, I guess summer recruitment would help there but that won’t be down to Ralf