To play this system you need 2 midfielders who can tackle and pass the ball as the first 2. We have neither in McFred. RR must buy 2 midfielders who can do this basic thing, or try VDB at least, unless hes leaving.
Ralf’s 4-2-2-2
- Thread starter Desert Eagle
- Start date
He is trying to implement the RBL style which is stylistically very pleasing to watch. Quick one touch passes between midfielders and then a direct ball to forwards or wings. You will always have one forward trying to hold the ball while other making the run. You will also have 2 forwards in the box always if the ball goes wide. A very high pressing side.
We saw some good runs from Ronaldo which was missed by the team majority of the times.
We saw balls being played to the feet and quick returns to switch the play. Fred was so horrible that he didn't find the passes first time which ultimately lead to counter attacks.
We saw 3 major chances created excluding the goal and all of them went to Cavani. Should have scored atleast 2 of them and we would have won.
RR doesn't like ball to be played from back and he won't make us masters in playing out from back. Varane made a horrible mistake. He wasn't aware of players behind him and he tried to be over smart. Should have been cleared.
We saw some good runs from Ronaldo which was missed by the team majority of the times.
We saw balls being played to the feet and quick returns to switch the play. Fred was so horrible that he didn't find the passes first time which ultimately lead to counter attacks.
We saw 3 major chances created excluding the goal and all of them went to Cavani. Should have scored atleast 2 of them and we would have won.
RR doesn't like ball to be played from back and he won't make us masters in playing out from back. Varane made a horrible mistake. He wasn't aware of players behind him and he tried to be over smart. Should have been cleared.
Play whatever system you want if you pick McFred 9/10 you’re going to lose the midfield battle because they’re simply not good enough.
No, he’s used multiple formations throughout his career. The way of playing stays the same, but I’d be surprised if he continues with that formation.
Boggles my mind he’s playing a 4-2-2-2 with these players. You need your interiores to be press resistant and capable of carrying the ball and controlling games, and he’s playing Bruno and Greenwood there. You need your CFs to be able to hold the ball up and he’s playing Ronaldo with Rashford.
You also need one of your CMs to be able to control a game like Fabregas next to Flamini under Wenger, or Senna next to Bruno under Pellegrini, Yaya Toure next to Barry/Fernandinho under Mancini/Pellegrini, etc, but he gets a pass there as we don’t have that type of cm.
You also need one of your CMs to be able to control a game like Fabregas next to Flamini under Wenger, or Senna next to Bruno under Pellegrini, Yaya Toure next to Barry/Fernandinho under Mancini/Pellegrini, etc, but he gets a pass there as we don’t have that type of cm.
I agree on both those points mate to be fair.
I just think trying to get these players to adapt to a new way of playing and a new formation when we need points on the board is probably not the best idea. Hopefully it works out I'm not writing it off yet as it's still only been a few games but we haven't looked great with it.
No. We struggled cause we didnt know how to play.
No point in panicking over formation already. There's a ton of problems right now and surely if Ralf sees it cant work with this formation he'll change it. Whats the point in changing it so quickly, 4 games in.
Yeah that makes sense, all top coaches try and go through different phases of favouring different formations.
Same here, think tonight could be the last we see of it.
There's not much logic in saying any formation used at the top level is either good or bad in isolation... however I will say I think Ralf needs to either:
You can have as much attitude as you like but the starting point surely has to be getting players in roles that they're familiar with, or at least roles that they've demonstrated the necessary skills to excel in.
If we are just going to persist with the 4-2-2-2 regardless of personnel, then it's best to accept from now that it won't even be close to smooth sailing this season, and we'll be seeing a fair few dropped points.
- Put forward a system that actually suits the players that he wants to get in the team
- Select the best players for the formation we're using
You can have as much attitude as you like but the starting point surely has to be getting players in roles that they're familiar with, or at least roles that they've demonstrated the necessary skills to excel in.
If we are just going to persist with the 4-2-2-2 regardless of personnel, then it's best to accept from now that it won't even be close to smooth sailing this season, and we'll be seeing a fair few dropped points.
Well until this season we didn't really struggle.
Yeah that's what's happening.
Well, the only positive about this formation so far under Rangnick is that there is a chance we will see Ronaldo Cavani up top. To me Cavani and Ronaldo can make good pair to give us hope.
It's more just them though imo. I agree they're an issue, however I think we have too many attackers who are far too risk focussed in their approach and very prone to giving the ball away in particular Bruno and Rashford. Coupled with our persisting tactic to constantly play a ball over the top then regardless of formation we make it so hard to have any control. I think we do have the players in the squad which whilst needing some upgrading, could still be a far more coherent team than we've been seeing.
I agree to some extent but I really think we should be set up to maximise Ronaldo. The problem is Rashford and Greenwood want to score goals not make them. Wan-Bissaka and Shaw don’t really provide assists. So you are left with Bruno and Sancho. Sancho has had a slow start and Bruno has been out of sorts.
Not seeing anything that suggests these players can play this formation.
Hahahaha our best player, he was awful.
He wasn't good, no other outfield player was better.
I honestly do not understand this 4-2-2-2 formation, it hasn't made any sense so far.
Formation and system are not the same thing. Not even close.
Just stick 3 in midfield and play it safe.
Enough with the 4 up front bollocks, it clearly isn't fecking working.
Enough with the 4 up front bollocks, it clearly isn't fecking working.
totally agree. We keep trying to cram 4 very selfish attacking players into the lineup
3 in midfield is usually standard, just not for us for some reason. City play it more extreme.
We are playing lots of players who want to be on the end of plays, very few who can be part of the buildup.
Clearly everyone here is referring to a formation even if erroneously using the term system given the thread mate. The person you originally replied to was as was I.
That's nonsense, they are clearly understood as different things. I have not heard of them ever be used to mean the same thing.
On the formation front I can't say I understand the 4-2-2-2, I am waiting for it to make sense. At the moment I am failing to imagine it really working.
this just doesn’t work with rashford up front and bruno out wide.
we looked a lot better with bruno back in the middle of the pitch and rashford wide in the 2nd half.
I hope Rangnick is learning from his mistakes.
we looked a lot better with bruno back in the middle of the pitch and rashford wide in the 2nd half.
I hope Rangnick is learning from his mistakes.
I think we can play it. We showed against Palace how it could work. I don't think you can have the likes of Rashford out wide though. I think Bruno and Sancho are our best options there, but the problem right now is they're both out of form and can't find consistency over 90 minutes to show it.
Against Palace we played a high line which somewhat alleviated the pressure on Mctominay and Fred, as they had the CBs and Fullbacks in vicinity to find passes or even make forward runs themselves. Their problems lie when the have to pass over bigger distances - we saw this under Ole. They're just not of that level. When we play compact they have shone and their weaknesses reduced and strengths highlighted.
For whatever reason the formation has stayed the same yet tactically we've been nowhere near as aggressive or brave as we were against Palace, where we practically had 10 players in their half at times.
Against Palace we played a high line which somewhat alleviated the pressure on Mctominay and Fred, as they had the CBs and Fullbacks in vicinity to find passes or even make forward runs themselves. Their problems lie when the have to pass over bigger distances - we saw this under Ole. They're just not of that level. When we play compact they have shone and their weaknesses reduced and strengths highlighted.
For whatever reason the formation has stayed the same yet tactically we've been nowhere near as aggressive or brave as we were against Palace, where we practically had 10 players in their half at times.
OK fair enough mate.Let's clear this up did you mean formation here mate?
Have to say I agree I don't the benefit of persevering with it. I'm sure if we play it for long enough it will start working to a degree, but you'd then you'd have to ask why persist with it.
I didn't like it in theory to be honest and I don't like it in practice either. It's early days so we can't be sure if it's the formation or just the fact that the players can't pass a football that is making us look shit.
We're not really creating any chances, the attack doesn't look fluid, and I don't think it suits certain key players. Bruno looks lost in this formation as he's too wide. I'm not sure what Rashford was doing being put on the right side in the 1st half, it's his worst position. And the Ronaldo-Rashford and Ronaldo-Greenwood partnership up front hasn't worked so far. We did look better with Cavani up there to be fair.
I honestly don't think there was anything wrong 4231. It's just we were so poorly coached under Ole that people on here decided 4231 was somehow the cause of all our problems. Realistically it suits more of our players, Bruno gets to play central with protection behind him and Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho get to play as genuine wide players.
My worry with Rangnick coming in was he'd try reinvent the wheel when realistically we probably just needed to stick to our strengths over the last 3 years but do it better, without the terrible coaching.
We're not really creating any chances, the attack doesn't look fluid, and I don't think it suits certain key players. Bruno looks lost in this formation as he's too wide. I'm not sure what Rashford was doing being put on the right side in the 1st half, it's his worst position. And the Ronaldo-Rashford and Ronaldo-Greenwood partnership up front hasn't worked so far. We did look better with Cavani up there to be fair.
I honestly don't think there was anything wrong 4231. It's just we were so poorly coached under Ole that people on here decided 4231 was somehow the cause of all our problems. Realistically it suits more of our players, Bruno gets to play central with protection behind him and Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho get to play as genuine wide players.
My worry with Rangnick coming in was he'd try reinvent the wheel when realistically we probably just needed to stick to our strengths over the last 3 years but do it better, without the terrible coaching.
It’s genuinely amazing how short sighted and goldfish memoried some on here are. We have just watched 3 years slip by where we tried to fit a load of players into a loosely defined tactical system and, for the first time since I don’t know when, we are trying something even remotely progressive and it’s not smooth sailing so people genuinely just want us to switch back to a setup we got hammered by Watford in.
Rangnick clearly doesn't have much flexibility with his style, a one trick pony and we don't have the players to play his game. A huge mistake getting rid of Carrick.
I think ideally he'd want to drop Ronaldo for a higher energy player to make it work but we all know he can't.
Coupled with terrible full backs and quality on the ball in CM it's not going to work.
Coupled with terrible full backs and quality on the ball in CM it's not going to work.
The selfishness and carelessness is so painful!
It’s diabolical. Not read any previous comments as don’t want to be influenced but this system ralph plays is shit. It will not work in the prem and does not work. It’s 4-2-4 ole played late on. Disaster appointment when will fans wake up and realise players are the problem!!!??,
I honestly don't know how people think Ronaldo being out the team changes anything.
The team cannot pass a football. Every time a player makes a 5 yard pass it's misplaced right to an opposition player so they can hit us on the counter.
How in the name of feck is Mctominay being blamed? Bruno, Rashford and Sancho literally gave the ball away every fecking time they got it - they were found numerous times between the lines just like they were against Norwich and they were all utterly abject. Do people actually watch the games or just blame the usual suspects? Cavani has to play if we continue with this system. He’s the only player we have who can at least look like he’s capable of holding the ball up on occasion. Plus you know, he runs. Always a bonus.
Out of interest, why does Ronaldo necessitate a front 2? What is he not doing that Martial was doing for the previous 2 seasons?
I suspect there's an element of correlation over causation honestly. For a start we were shit under Ole the entire time, we were just scraping enough results to squeak out top 4. This season players downed tools and Ole tried different tactics that he didn't need to and years of poor coaching caught up with us, and it's resulted in this disastrous position we're in.
1. Develop pre-game narrative
2. Post negative comments about the players you dislike in the matchday thread while scrolling on Twitter (but not actually watching the game)
3. Post the same negative comment about the players you dislike in the post-match thread, safe in the knowledge that your shitposting has been adding to a broader narrative
4. ???
5. Profit
Honestly people don't even watch the games and they decide who to blame before a game is kicked.
Fred and Mctominay were our best players against Norwich and they were being blamed. No word on the front 4 losing the ball every time they get it, and failing to create any chances despite being given the ball in good areas.
Martial was a better target man. Or, at least, he was more willing to be a target man.
Ronaldo just wants to score goals. Which, to be fair, is something he's better at than anyone in history. So asking him to be Kevin Davies wouldn't end well for anyone.
I don't like it but I'm also not a fan of Ronaldo being a lone striker.