Genuinely curious, was the criticism against these guys as severe as Sterling got? Because no doubt these guys were criticised, I just think a lot of people will have more issue with the actual severity of the criticism. In the sense that someone like Sterling receives more severe criticism than guys like Beckham or Ireland in the past.
Raheem Sterling
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
Ireland and Neville were both heavily criticised for having no taste in fairness.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...-finally-sells--1-5-million-asking-price.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12856...fe-jessica-pose-with-garish-6ft-wedding-cake/
Sol Campbell also thought that the only reason he wasn't England captain and couldn't get a managerial role was because he was black, so I guess there's no point in disagreeing with that viewpoint because he's black and no white person could ever comment on his experience.
Holy shit, Ireland.
Beckham ended up getting ripped to shreds, and there were constant articles about him. He had to start playing down his personality (particularly later in his career) but he certainly came under plenty of fire during his career. I don't think Ireland was ever high profile enough to get the kind of attention a Sterling or a Beckham does, had he been English and a full international then I guarantee the English press would have published a hell of a lot more articles about him.
I do think Sterling came under particular scrutiny because he left Liverpool (who have a ton of very active figures in the media) for a 'mercenary' club in City. There was also loads of stories around the time he left about him demanding huge money etc, so again I think a certain narrative stuck and once the media have a narrative they will continue to run with it unless there's some major shift.
In a word, yes.
Ireland probably not because of his limited prominence as a player, but he got far more than his profile warranted.
Rooney has been torn to shreds for years by the press and fans in the UK.
Then there was Beckham, best to spoiler this one:
Nobody has ever come close to the abuse he got after that Argentina game.
The English press loves to have a footballer to hate and there's always something that sparks it. Gazza and his dentist's chair, Beckham with the World Cup and celebrity lifestyle, Rooney and his Granny. Sterling is simply the current one, and his crime was unceremoniously leaving Liverpool.
If black people are telling you that something is racist, then who are you to insist that it's not racist at all? How can you possibly understand what its like to be black and be the target of racism? I would never do that for Jews and antisemitism for example, because it's not my place and I just don't have that same understanding.
Also lets not pretend as though this hasn't been happening to Sterling for years, and began with the press insisting he was a yardie with 4 'baby mommas' and like 5 kids at the age of 19? How can anyone possibly insist that there's no racism involved?
Secondly, what personality does Sterling have?
I see him buy things for his family, donate money to charity, and support his friends all the time. He shops at primark, flys easy jet and lets his car get dirty, seems pretty normal. The most controversial thing he's got caught up in is inhaling 'hippy crack' when he was in his late teens/early 20s. If thats grounds for disliking someone then surely, everyone should be disliked?
Also - I see all the time on this forum, and especially in the threads like 'PC gone mad' when old tweets are brought up, this idea that as a teenager or even when you were generally young, you do dumb things and you learn from them - so people shouldn't be judged on what they did while they were young/didn't know better, as long as they've learned from their mistakes.
Sterling hasn't been caught doing anything controversial since the hippy crack phase - so i'll ask again - what personality does he have, to warrant such criticism in the press? He seems humble, hard working and is one of the best English players in the country.
You mentioned McGregor, interestingly so - I guess you didn't realise in the run-up to the McGregor fight the way the press wrote stories about McGregor, versus how they reported on Mayweather? You'll see that almost every other day Mayweather's spending & lifestyle was under constant scrutiny, much more so than McGregor - despite them both being flashy, arrogant boxers.
Kante doesn't have a personality, which is exactly my point. There's nothing wrong with being like Kante - but equally, there's nothing wrong with being like Pogba - but this expectation that unless you're like Kante, you shouldn't expect respect, is the perfect example of respectability politics. And pinning it down to culture/values doesn't make it right either, because by doing so - what you're suggesting is that players shouldn't express their trueselves - or if they do, they shouldn't expect to be respected by the media and therefore society.
We're clearly not going to agree on whether it's racially motivated, and not to be rude - I mean this in the nicest possible way - I really don't care if individual people think it's racially motivated or not, because on the topic of racism, a large amount of people still struggle to understand it unless there's white hoods and N-words thrown about. & frankly, I don't have the time to explain the nuances or differences anymore.
So no quotes at all for the bolded above (from the thread) and no evidence of a cesspool.
If I wanted to quote, I would've quoted. Instead I observed and stated my opinion - which is what this forum is for. You're free to also disagree with my observation.
I'm sorry, what's wrong with shopping at Primark? I got a shirt from there while visiting London and I still use it until this day
I do. It is far from a cesspool, by which I assume you mean a swamp of unreconstructed ignorant reactionaryism. And you're unable to prove it is a cesspool by quoting its contents.
Vardy has racially abused a Japanese man, made threatening posts on Twitter and is well known for drinking vodka before matches. He’s also an annoying little scrote in the Paul Dickov mold on the field. Yet he doesn’t get one tenth of the abuse in the media that Sterling does. I don’t think you could have used a worse example.
You shouldn't conflate my lack of interest in engaging with you, with the lack of evidence in the thread.
Literally nothing. The whole point is that he got criticised when he was 'blinging out' and when he was buying cheap things also, he couldn't win for trying because the problem is with him, not his actions.
i really have no time for people that exclusively focus on airing their displeasure with dabs, dances, haircuts, clothes, cars etc... clamouring for a return to that golden age where players knew what it meant to put on the shirt and displayed no personality. You should be pushed to come up with much better angles of criticism than that tripe. And this stuff gets way too much of a pass on this site and other platforms. It's not an indicator of football professionalism. It doesn't help that Mourinho has gone down his rabbit hole with his players...their entourages and social media content. Tons of lazy keyboard warriors just regurgitate that stuff once the narrative is penned by a manager.
Neville's point that black players never receive anywhere close to the level of 'hero-worship' when things are good is an element that cannot be ignored. Ashley Cole left the country to escape.
Neville's point that black players never receive anywhere close to the level of 'hero-worship' when things are good is an element that cannot be ignored. Ashley Cole left the country to escape.
What are we agreeing to disagree on? Is it your view that Sterling is disliked by Liverpool fans because of his skin colour?
Understood. You engage only with those who agree with you or whose arguments you feel able to engage with.
Who am I? Somebody who is perfectly capable of evaluating a situation without having black skin. How about all the black footballers who haven't come out to support Sterling? I don't need to understand 'what its like to be black' to have an opinion, that's utterly absurd. I don't necessarily totally degree with Barnes etc that there is something of a racist element, I just disagree with the extent to which that the media coverage of Sterling is racially motivated. I don't think that he's been targeted for being black.
I seem to remember the Sterling stories about him having loads of kids, and I'm guessing that was because someone sold them some false stories they ran with. It's happened with plenty of players across sports, tabloid journalists in reporting shit rumours shocker. It just seems to get more attention and be branded as part of some huge racist agenda when it happens to a black player. Just like it's racist when Sterling gets pictured having breakfast or going on a cheap flight, when similar stories happened about Beckham etc it was just seen as the press being their usual boring selves.
I agree, but the problem is he got picked out as a money hungry mercenary the day he moved to City from Liverpool, and the media have ran with that narrative since. I don't think he warrants any criticism, personally I'd be fecking delighted if we could scrap the tabloid press tomorrow and I didn't have to hear a single thing about any footballers personal life. I just think in Sterlings case he had some dodgy stories about demanding wages emerge, and combine that with a questionable tattoo etc, and you have a narrative the media could run with.
I just fundamentally disagree with the coverage of McGregor, I saw tons of articles/people on social media ripping in to him for being an arrogant tit. I remember Mayweather being mocked a lot for not being able to read and yeah, you're going to get criticism when you outrageously flaunt your wealth everywhere. I don't really have too much sympathy.
He does have a personality, he's reserved, humble and comes off as kind. That is a personality type, you don't have to be 'in yer face' dabbing over everybody within a 10 yard radius to have a personality. There's nothing wrong with being like Pogba (the world would undeniably be dull if everyone was Kante) but when you're somebody who puts yourself out there more and displays your wealth more openly, inevitably you're going to be open to more criticism from people who disagree with that or are jealous. People are absolutely free to express themselves freely, but people in the public eye will always be judged for their personal choices in this media driven world, you can't escape that. I'm not a fan of it, but it's just a reality.
I'm perfectly capable of understanding nuances, and I'm totally aware of the argument you're trying to put forward, it's one I have heard plenty of times. I just disagree with it and think that it's often overplayed, and this particular case I think there are other factors at play which explain why Sterling has come under fire, factors more important than his ethnicity.
Genuinely the worst fecking attempt at 'look at me I bought a new shirt' boasting I've ever seen. Have some decency.
By the way, where's BBC and Panorama with their show on how fecking racist the Brits are (I mean, in one week we've had a banana thrown at Aubameyang and Sterling being racially abused), the same type of show they've made about Poland and Ukraine prior to Euro 2012, telling people not to go there because those are racist, backward shitholes, Sol Campbell spearheading the whole thing? Or Oxlade-Chamberlain's family being shit scared to go there too?
Fair enough, I misremembered the vodka story. It wasn’t before matches, it was when recovering from a long term injury.
We can replace it with the more factually accurate “convicted for assault” if you like?
he is simply saying look at how the media report on the grooming/rapist stories. if they are muslim they are reported as a muslim grooming gang. if they are white its just reported as a grooming gang. no mention of religion.
See any terror attack....muslim involved its a muslim terror attack. White guy involved, no mention that he was a christian and probably be spun into some mental health story.
Again, untrue but whatever floats your boat.
Why do all black footballers need to come out and support Raheem in order for you believe that racism is the main motivator? You should see the comments on his instagram post, there are literally dozens of PL-based black footballers in total agreement and who talk about how they fully agree and have felt the same themselves. Also foreign based players who do the same, then there are more who have liked the photo without commenting.
But according to your logic, because not all of them have come out in support - racism just doesn't exist here, right?
You are completely dismissing the stereotype of Jamaican men (Raheem's heritage lies in Jamaica) having lots of kids as teenagers - there are false stories sure, but this was ran as true and a fact for years - he had to post a picture of his one child and sarcastically point out 'the other 8 kids I have' on twitter, which someone posted on the previous page. That's why it's a huge deal.
All footballers 'demand' higher wages, almost everybody does - you expect a pay rise every year at your performance review, and if you didn't get a pay-rise for 4 years you would demand one, right?
The only difference is that we're small fishes in much larger companies. Sterling (and other footballers) have direct influence on how their employers perform - in the case of Liverpool he was 1 of 3 superstars who took them to their highest PL finish in years, and playing better than they have done for a generation. That warrants a big pay rise, and if your employers are unable to accommodate that but a rival company will offer you the wages you are seeking plus better career prospects & benefits, then why should you stay? Especially when your career is only going to last 15-20 years max.
We all know someone who left a company they loved working at, because either their promotion prospects were limited, or they felt like they weren't being properly valued for the work they do. Likewise we probably know someone who has stayed at a company for a long time due to loyalty or comfort or whatever, and as a result their career has plateau'd. These are normal things that happen in our day-to-day lives, the only difference is with footballers they're already millionaires so there's this expectation that they should be grateful for what they have (respectability politics again)
I'm keen to hear what factors are at play here to suggest that Sterling warrants the treatment he's gotten over the years, let's start with him being labelled a yardie baby daddy at the age of 18/19 - and he was still at Liverpool, what was a bigger motivator for that story if it wasn't his ethnicity?
The thing with Vardy is he's a bit of a scrote but he's also got a fantastic rags to riches story with him being a lower league footballer, moving up to the Premier League, breaking a record and then winning the league title. Media adores that shit.
If they're a white grooming gang their victims are not muslim, which, if they were, would make it a wholly different story and not one John Barnes would be using as an example but one that you would have certainly heard about. With regards to terror attacks, if it's a white guy, plenty mention that he's far right and/or associated with such and such a group.
Yup. Ian Wright was the archetype. Minus the “bit of a scrote” bit.
You can finally isolated examples of players being criticised, but I think you'll find that Sterling's lifestyle is scrutinised to a much greater extent. It's a matter of opinion but I don't think he's significantly worse than either of the players you mention, so it does beg the question why the media continuously focuses on him.
Ok, brilliant, enjoy winning elsewhere.
Funny how the media doesn’t love the rags to riches story of a child immigrant whose father was murdered and grew up on a council estate. In fact, they seem to quite resent those riches.
I'm glad he's pointed out the influence media reports have on behavior like this.
Look at the abuse McClean receives about the poppy stuff that is fuelled by tge media making a big deal of it every year . Hence death threats and bigoted abuse from so called fans
Sterling has received a lot if negative press as well same for players like Dele Ali ,Pogba ,Lingard etc.
The Daily Mail clearly has a problem with young successful black stars living it up
Look at the abuse McClean receives about the poppy stuff that is fuelled by tge media making a big deal of it every year . Hence death threats and bigoted abuse from so called fans
Sterling has received a lot if negative press as well same for players like Dele Ali ,Pogba ,Lingard etc.
The Daily Mail clearly has a problem with young successful black stars living it up
Good question, Villain, see below for you answer...
Boom! There you have it.
That's where we are in this thread!
Are you joking? just search Sterling and Phil Thompson/Mark Lawrenson/John Barnes/Aldridge any of those and you can see the hatred start up in April 2015 and it continued all the way. Scousers are not responsible for the racism, but sure are for the relentless hatred when he moved.
Even better, search google trends, most associated words are "number of kids" Wives, and the vast majority coming from Liverpool. You guys just couldnt let it go, even now the hatred from him manifests like this "We dont hate him but his personality is shit" - You don't even know his personality, only what is presented in the media, by your pundits.
Last edited by a moderator:
sure some times the media report if far right etc... in fact if a white guy commits a terror attack and not in a far right group etc they will start looking for mental health causes. How come no mention they were a bible loving christian? also how come its super rare a muslim attack gets reported as a mental health issue?
its the subtle undertones and "labeling" at fault here by the media in general.
I don't think 'all' black footballers have to come out, I just don't think that because other black footballers have come out and spoken it automatically means their position is correct and shouldn't be questioned. I'm pretty sure I could get a bunch of white guys to come out and say shit you'd disagree with, would you automatically have to agree with their position because you couldn't possible understand the white experience? I've also NEVER suggested racism does not 'exist here', merely questioned the extent to which the media has had a racist agenda against Sterling.
A bunch of stories likely got sold by Sterling by people around him, the tabloids ran with those stories and then shock horror the stories stopped when he came out and silenced them. What more is there to say here? There are plenty of examples of rumours about footballers getting viewed as fact until they get rubbished. I'm not saying that stereotypes can't play a part in rumours coming about, but I also think that if someone approached the media with similar stories about a young white goldenboy, they would publish that too.
I don't disagree, again I really don't give a feck what money footballers demand. They're perfectly entitled to seek whatever wages they feel they are owed as a crucial part of a multi billion dollar business. But equally, people being money hungry in society has long since been frowned upon and this is not something that is going to change. Players across the football world get stick for making money motivated moves, people generally prefer individuals who have 'purer' motivations like love for the game, family, all that jazz. That's just something people prefer, and the media buy in to that.
The biggest factor is his move at a young age from one of the countries most popular clubs (with lots of media representation) to an oil rich club, with plenty of stories at the time emerging that he was demanding huge wages. That immediately set the narrative that he was a typical greedy, flashy young footballer with no respect for Liverpool (I seem to remember stories about him refusing to train?) and that's a narrative which is hard to wash out. He's also a very high profile England international so is naturally going to be the target of loads of shit stories like him eating breakfast or getting on a cheap flight. Look around, plenty of similar articles about white players. John Stones got an entire one about his new house for feck sake.
Shit like him getting an assault rifle tattooed on his leg was hardly going to help that, if Kane turned up tomorrow in training with an ak47 across his arm does anybody genuinely believe the media wouldn't react to it because he's white?
he was talking about the gangs themselves, not the victims. answer his question properly.
so religion isn't mentioned. exactly.
Shock horror as tabloids run with smear story, must automatically be racism as no young white player has ever been the victim of the tabloid press.
It was a stupid, shit rumour which spread because the internet loves this kind of shit.
yes, people are more willing to sell BS stories, and racist papers are willing to buy and print BS stories, because they feed the racist narrative of a black man having loads of kids. what's your point?
Breivik for example was widely labelled a Christian terrorist. And rightly so.
And Kitson had the audacity to accuse Sterling of flaunting his wealth
Outrageous. Deserves its own thread. Has bizarrely escaped the attention of Caf shirtists up till now,
oh right, yeah, that one time.
are you denying that gangs and terrorists are more commonly referred to by their muslim religious affiliation than their white counterparts?