You have me totally wrong. I wasn't in favour of Moyes at the start and he hasn't done enough yet to convince me that he's the right man. I have a problem with those, like you, making stupid comments that he's 'a clown' destroying the club. Clearly he's not, however his tenure may end up. He wants to succeed and deserves a chance to build his own team in order that he can be judged fairly. Those players who don't fit in with that with rightly get moved on, I don't know if Rafael will be a casualty or not but he hasn't done enough to convince anyone so far this season that he's irreplaceable and given the importance of full backs in the modern game I'd not be surprised if we are looking at alternatives.
Rafael da Silva | 2010-14 Performances
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You have me totally wrong. I wasn't in favour of Moyes at the start and he hasn't done enough yet to convince me that he's the right man. I have a problem with those, like you, making stupid comments that he's 'a clown' destroying the club. Clearly he's not, however his tenure may end up. He wants to succeed and deserves a chance to build his own team in order that he can be judged fairly. Those players who don't fit in with that with rightly get moved on, I don't know if Rafael will be a casualty or not but he hasn't done enough to convince anyone so far this season that he's irreplaceable and given the importance of full backs in the modern game I'd not be surprised if we are looking at alternatives.
It's all good and fair Datura, but Rafael has been a stellar performer for us last season. Ultimately it's Moyes' decision and he's not going to get fired for it, but if he sells Rafael to get another RB, he'll get serious questions from the fans. Everybody talked about continuity in terms of him appointing Phil Neville and Giggs who 'know' Man Utd even though there could be other candidates with better CV's for assistant coaches, and in a season when we are seeing Ferdinand, Giggs and Evra move away, it's a completely unnecessary move. Maybe he wants to build a new defence from scratch, but it's not as if the rumoured replacement is far better than Rafael. I admit, we are arguing based on rumour, but that's all there is now.
As they say the devil is in the detail. If the players are giving their 100% and we're struggling because of Moyes then he should be on his way out. If there is a coup d'etat going on, then they should be on the way out
Only problem with Rafael besides that disgusting performance against fulham is his injuries. He is very very injury prone and to be honest I think he is a bit of a bottler when big games aren't going well, I know this might sound controversial but so many times he has hobbled off when were 1 0 down in a tough game or hes having a hard time.
Rafael, a bottler? What the feck
This place gets weirder.
I can't think of a more determined and braver lad in the squad.
Like Sultan said, he's almost too brave. Jones is the same.
One of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on here, and that takes some doing. Rafael is the complete opposite to what you've described. He's a little fighter who leaves nothing on the pitch and gives 100% all the time, even moreso when the game isn't going in our favour. Just look back to the 4-3 game against Reading last season when he was subbed off in the first half for Smalling. He was distraught. He's never wanted to hobble off because he's having a hard time. People seriously see what they want to.
Evans: "His energy at right-back is really good. He really sets the tone. He is one of the best right-backs in the world."
Fergie: "Rafael was developing into a really, really good player, but he made mistakes. Some players can never stop making mistakes, it's hereditary, but others learn by them. Rafael was sent off against Bayern Munich and then improved his disciplinary record dramatically. He's such a competitive boy, quick and aggressive, and he believes in himself. He has a really positive attitude to the game."
People were saying a few pages back that his crossing has gone shit, and I seriously don't see how anyone can think that be magically just got shit at crossing. The issue imo is that he is now playing an early, low percentage cross more frequently which is clearly something he has been asked to do (Evra is also doing it more in the other side too). Whipping in lots of high aerial crosses which get cleared quite easily by the opposition CBs and only have a small chance of reaching our strikers. So most of the time they're 'unsuccessful' crosses. His link-up play, one-twos around the box, runs to create space for the winger etc are all still brilliant and it is t his fault that we aren't playing in a way that utilises patient build-up play to break teams down rather than getting the ball into the box at the earliest opportunity regardless of whether the cross is on or not.
Jones is a nutter actually. There's no doubts about Rafa's bravery or fight but Jones takes it on another level.
I agree with you and I genuinely think they are doing it because they believe they're honouring Fergie's final command: "your job now....." etc.
No matter what gets said the same cluster of posters will appear out if nowhere to defend Moyes regardless of the validity or relevance of the point being made. I suppose similar can be said about those who criticise everything about the manager and blame him for everything but both extremes are as pathetic as each other imo.
I agree with this, he is my favourite player by some distance and I think a lot of it is about the passion and enthusiasm he plays with.
This
Rafael has played over 90 games for United, won 8 trophies at the age 24.. Seamus Coleman has played little over 100 games, 0 trophies at the age of 26.. So injury prone or not I dont know why anyone thinks we would replace Rafael with this player? If that would be the case Moyes has less clue than I think he has..
Being a bit pedantic here, Rafael has 150 matches for us (in all competition) and is still only 23. Coleman has 201 games (129 in 5 seasons for Everton) and is 25.
Swapping those two it just doesn't make sense, and like others have mentioned here, people who are advocating this decisions (which for all we know it might be total speculation) are the same people who defend Moyes on everything.
I rate Rafael higher than Coleman. Coleman is playing great in a team full of confidence, no doubt. However, I think that in a few years time everyone will see that Rafael is the better player. He just needs to steer clear of injuries and he'll be fine. His form has taken a little blip lately, but not many players haven't suffered a blip for us this season as confidence is at an all time low.
It must be tough for him having had to watch his brother struggle to establish himself and now leave to live in Cardiff, but you never know, them separating might actually be good for them in the long term. They are still close enough to see each other regularly, but can now focus 100% on their own careers now they are at different clubs.
We have so many issues in the squad that need to be addressed. Rafael isn't one of them, and replacing him would be madness in my opinion.
It must be tough for him having had to watch his brother struggle to establish himself and now leave to live in Cardiff, but you never know, them separating might actually be good for them in the long term. They are still close enough to see each other regularly, but can now focus 100% on their own careers now they are at different clubs.
We have so many issues in the squad that need to be addressed. Rafael isn't one of them, and replacing him would be madness in my opinion.
Agreed, it baffles me that it's even up for debate. We have one natural right back in the side, who's still relatively young and one of our best performers last season. Utd logic? Let's replace him in a window where we're already losing a centre half and possibly another along with a left back; and even then we need another right back for cover. I'm pretty sure if some people were in charge they'd be striving for a completely new starting eleven in the summer.
Some sort of sanity is returning to the thread. Rafael has now been called injury prone, compared to Monreal, called a bottler, posts justifying his sale, and how he has a few games to prove himself. There are posters here who believe they'll take Coleman over Rafael in that scenario and yet laugh at others for perceived lack of quality. Madness.
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Must be league matches then but my point still stands..
that's why I like him so much. we doesn't take crap from anyone, actually challenges people with the ball rather than back up and let them do whatever, plays hard and really cares. the team could use more Rafael types.
I still have a huge man crush on Rafael. Nothing will change it. Really hope he plays midweek.
I right there with you on the man crush. Hope he's recovered and these rumours of him leaving are all nonsense.
I honestly think the injuries Rafael has suffered, this season, has caused him to be a bit off form, this season. It seems as if Moyes rushes his players back from injuries, from what I've seen up to this point. This isn't good for a player like Rafael who, with his style of play, is bound to put more strain on his body.
From what I've seen of his crossing, most of his crosses have been high, lofted, early crosses. Most of the good full backs/wing backs today don't do such crosses and, more often than not, deliver faster crosses into the box, more often into gaps in the box or to the near post. Rarely do I see good full/wing backs put in high, lofty, early crosses.
Given how much Rafael has developed throughout his career here, I wouldn't be so quick to judge him. Plus, as long as he keeps himself disciplined, he won't be as injury-prone as he would be. In the past, he suffered injuries due to his ultra-aggressive style of play. However, once he became more disciplined, he became more of a regular, for us.
From what I've seen of his crossing, most of his crosses have been high, lofted, early crosses. Most of the good full backs/wing backs today don't do such crosses and, more often than not, deliver faster crosses into the box, more often into gaps in the box or to the near post. Rarely do I see good full/wing backs put in high, lofty, early crosses.
Given how much Rafael has developed throughout his career here, I wouldn't be so quick to judge him. Plus, as long as he keeps himself disciplined, he won't be as injury-prone as he would be. In the past, he suffered injuries due to his ultra-aggressive style of play. However, once he became more disciplined, he became more of a regular, for us.
I would not swap out Rafael for Coleman, for what surely must be obvious reasons. Madness to suggest otherwise, though Coleman is a very tidy fullback himself. However, Varela looks a very good prospect and will stake a solid claim soon for the job. Just you wait and see, my friends.
I haven't seen Varela play, at all, but from what I've read about him through match reports, he's certainly very promising and a very good right back. I'm really looking forward to seeing him play for the first team (if at all). He did do very well at the U-20 World Cup for Uruguay, last year.
The trophy haul has only a little reflection on the player in this instance. Coleman is a superior RB in every facet at this point in time, previous trophies is simply irrelevant.
In my opinion I don't see why you would sell him though considering his age and ability/potential, especially when the other player is not stand-out better player than Rafael. But your reasoning there is ridiculous.
Why?
He´s 2 years younger has won many trophies has showed great improvement year after year and was one of our standout players last year.. If we would go with this years form we could replace most of our players after the manager change I can name a few, should we buy all the players at Everton because they are having a great season? Barry is having a better season than Carrick why don´t swoop him in? I just don´t see even if Coleman is having a good season that we would replace the only spot in our defence that was nailed down for the next 5 years and has age on his side.. I just don´t see any reason for this at all.
I agree that it would be pointless unless there are circumstances behind the scenes that have not come to light (I'm not suggesting that there is).
But right now Coleman is a superior player for a variety of reasons. This alone makes the trophy count pointless, how does it relate beyond a sentimental value?
To put it simply going by this logic Arsenal should sign fat Ronaldo right now because he's won trophies previously, is a striker and thus is better than Giroud who has won no trophies.
But having said that other factors should be considered that lend to your argument. Coleman is not so much better that it would make sense, I think Rafael will at least end up his equal once they've both reached their peaks. Also whilst Coleman is not old he still has essentially two years less in him that Rafael. Another factor is simply Rafael knows the club, players, style, has built a relationship with the fans and needs no time to adjust, etc.
Coleman might be in slightly better form but it doesn't mean he's a superior player.
This really has turned into quite a bizarre discussion.
We don't need a RB full stop, let alone one that would cost around £20m. Turn Valencia into a full time second choice RB and we are golden for that position (and we have the added benefit of it being cost neutral and don't have to see him on the wing again). God only knows why anyone is talking about Coleman, if we were looking for an upgrade on a 23 year old potentially World Class full back (ignoring the fact that this should be about 7th on our list of positions required to fill), the upgrade would have to be a World Class full back. Coleman does not even close to fit this description, though a good full back in his own right.
We don't need a RB full stop, let alone one that would cost around £20m. Turn Valencia into a full time second choice RB and we are golden for that position (and we have the added benefit of it being cost neutral and don't have to see him on the wing again). God only knows why anyone is talking about Coleman, if we were looking for an upgrade on a 23 year old potentially World Class full back (ignoring the fact that this should be about 7th on our list of positions required to fill), the upgrade would have to be a World Class full back. Coleman does not even close to fit this description, though a good full back in his own right.
Valencia at right back has been an unmitigated disaster this season.
Valencia at RB
Give one of Varela or Janko a run in the team to see how they cope. If they don't look up to it then a back up RB should be on the agenda for the summer.
Give one of Varela or Janko a run in the team to see how they cope. If they don't look up to it then a back up RB should be on the agenda for the summer.
Has moyes come out and said we are selling or he doesn't want him? He has pretty much started when fit so I don't get why this thread has turned into another anti moyes bitch fest. Rafael has hardly been ripping up trees when he has played which has probably had the press second guessing, but to lay blame with moyes, again, is just daft.
When he's played there for a few games in a row he's looked an acceptable backup. Obviously being moved back after 60 minutes on the wing requires much more discipline and is much more difficult.
Valencia would be a decent back up full back if he were only played/trained in that position (he has looked decent under Fergie in previous seasons).
It is more a pro moyes botch fest to be fair. A few posters read the reports that Moyes will sell Rafael and sign Coleman, so they decided that is a great idea to do so.
Sure that's what happened. Nothing to do with you and your cronies deciding this was another good opportunity to have a pop at the manager.
What the feck does "pro Moyes botch fest" even mean?
that has been the case only this season, and only because of the turmoil the rest of the team is in, and his injuries,
considering the track record, competitions played, and the fact that we are looking at the future, where we don't know whats going to happen injury-wise, there is no reason to consider Coleman a superior choice,
I agree. He's not a superior choice, just a superior player at the moment.
Barely even that. Rafael has been a warrior for us over the past few seasons. How many times have we changed our back four this season. Because of injuries, Moyes tinkering with with the back, we have not had a set back 4 and this has caused us to leak goals and not look solid.
Coleman is decent but let's please move on from this one. Do not want. I would much rather prefer giving one of our young right backs a promotion as understudy to Rafael or use Smalling/Jones if need be.
Typo mistake. I meant 'pro Moyes bitch fest'.
No, I don't rate Moyes at all, but I don't think that he's stupid. I don't think that Rafael will get sold and neither Coleman won't get signed. It is amazing though how many United 'supporters' are eager to thrown United players under the bus, just because of an unconfirmed rumour that Moyes wants to sell him. Especially, in this case the player in question was the third/fourth best player in our team last season and even now when he is underperforming he is still our best defender. And finally, if replacing Rafael with Coleman has nothing to do with the support of Moyes, is weird that these people (who by coincidence) are Moyes defenders here started thinking that only after those rumours. If Rafael was a liability and Coleman is superior, I guess that people would have been asking for this before the rumours started (like we did for LB, CM and winger position).
On a side note, I am a bit biased because Rafael (together with Chicharito) is my favorite player.
I'm struggling to understand why some posters don't think we need a RB, it's looking unlikely that we will get Coleman, in fact we are basing all this on rumours. One thing that is clear though, is we need more than the one RB we currently have. Rafael has no competition for his place and the lack of cover in that area is worrying.
We've been forced this season to play players out if position, that shouldn't happen to a club of our size.
It's fair to say that Varela could be up for the job next season but it's a lot to ask from someone with so little experiance.
We've been forced this season to play players out if position, that shouldn't happen to a club of our size.
It's fair to say that Varela could be up for the job next season but it's a lot to ask from someone with so little experiance.
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