Putin and Russia in Syria

Avatar said:
Erdogan did do business with ISIS .esp in in the first year

People will get more clear insights when they do realize that Erdogan and his party are Muslim brotherhood members. In fact, any major Islamic organization worldwide is a Brotherhood affiliate.
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Someone finally gets it. Erdogan is bad news, his Islamist party, the Muslim brotherhood, Hamas and ISIS are pretty much one big love in. People shouldn't be so surprised if Turkey's actions align with the objectives of Da'esh.
 
Apologies if this has already been covered but did I just see a stationary Russian helicopter being destroyed by Syrian rebels?!
 
Mihajlovic said:
Apologies if this has already been covered but did I just see a stationary Russian helicopter being destroyed by Syrian rebels?!
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Yes you did see that. Also a bombing in Tunisia.
 
Red Dreams said:
Was watching the excellent documentry about WWI and how it all began. From my school days it was like it all started right after Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated. But it involved a lot of decisions by many different countries looking after their own interests.

Looks frighteningly similar.
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Yes, the WWI vibe definitely springs to mind here. There are too many countries and alliances with their beaks in this at the moment, which is why its critical negotiations take place to come up with a united front to resolve this, which will no doubt have to involve stabilizing both Iraq and Syria, as opposed to bombing anti-Assad rebels to keep Assad in power.
 
Red Dreams said:
WW III starting from the Middle East?
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Not just yet - but if and when we do - it's definitely going to stem from that region.

Funny thing is - most probably thought, it would be the Israeli/Palestinian issue that would spiral out of 'control' and result in some crazy all encompassing war.

Yet - that issue is basically on the back burner.
 
Raoul said:
Yes, the WWI vibe definitely springs to mind here. There are too many countries and alliances with their beaks in this at the moment, which is why its critical negotiations take place to come up with a united front to resolve this, which will no doubt have to involve stabilizing both Iraq and Syria, as opposed to bombing anti-Assad rebels to keep Assad in power.
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indeed. Obama and Putin especially need to end up on the same side.
 
Red Dreams said:
Was watching the excellent documentry about WWI and how it all began. From my school days it was like it all started right after Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated. But it involved a lot of decisions by many different countries looking after their own interests.

Looks frighteningly similar.
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Likely based on the Guns of August.
 
So is that helicopter shoot down confirmed ? I suppose the video seems quite conclusive. Its been a calamitous couple of weeks for Putin between this, the fighter jet shoot down by the Turks, and the ISIS shoot down of his airliner. He's taking it in every orifice at the moment.
 
sun_tzu said:
Then Obama needs to change sides because Putin wont
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Or rather we need a UN resolution agreed by all the great powers on how to proceed in Iraq and Syria. Once there's a UN mandate, everyone has a framework to work off of, as opposed to now where everyone is improvising based on their own interests.
 
Silly move from Turkey really, whether the plane violated airspace or not.

The main reaction to this will be Putin using the unnecessary shooting of the two pilots as justification to step up his assault on the turkmen regions. Turkey have really set back their efforts against Assad here.

Frustrating that the real issues affecting the safety of civilians across Europe are being used as a smokescreen for bigger fish to play out their own agendas.
 
Raoul said:
Or rather we need a UN resolution agreed by all the great powers on how to proceed in Iraq and Syria. Once there's a UN mandate, everyone has a framework to work off of, as opposed to now where everyone is improvising based on their own interests.
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The problem is that the great powers are in bed with opposing sides on what is a larger regional power struggle between Persian/Shia and Arab/Sunni (supported by Turks and Israel). It's hard to see how you can reach a meaningful settlement without some serious realignments. The only small mercy at the moment is that Donald Trump is not calling the shots.
 
Turkey believes the two pilots are still alive and is working to secure their release from Syrian rebels, a Turkish government official told Reuters news agency.

"Our units, who received the information that the two pilots were alive, are working to get them from opposition rebels safely," the official said.
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Neutral said:
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Would Obama not be better off just keeping his mouth shut or saying something noncommittal like the Germans have done?

By saying this, Putin is now forced into a reaction lest he look weak in response to the Americans.
 
Raoul said:
Or rather we need a UN resolution agreed by all the great powers on how to proceed in Iraq and Syria. Once there's a UN mandate, everyone has a framework to work off of, as opposed to now where everyone is improvising based on their own interests.
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Less likely than ever I think
China may look to get involved military or at least logistically now they have had a hostage beheaded
No way the USA will allow them into joint strikes / operations which leaves them with backing Russia... Making any Un resolution even less likely imo
 
diarm said:
Would Obama not be better off just keeping his mouth shut or saying something noncommittal like the Germans have done?

By saying this, Putin is now forced into a reaction lest he look weak in response to the Americans.
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Kind of agree. Usually would say they should stand by NATO allies, but given how much of a headache Turkey has been, would just have been non-committal.
 
diarm said:
Would Obama not be better off just keeping his mouth shut or saying something noncommittal like the Germans have done?

By saying this, Putin is now forced into a reaction lest he look weak in response to the Americans.
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You know how it is...

This is what he said in more detail -

Asked about the downing of a Russian jet, President Obama said he was still getting the details. But he said "Turkey, like every country, has the right to defend its territory and its airspace".

He went on to say it was important for the Russians and Turks to talk to each other and take measure to "discourage escalation".
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and this is the Turkish version of events -

In a letter to the UN security council and Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, Turkey's UN ambassador Halit Cevik said two planes approached Turkish airspace on Tuesday morning.

He said they were warned 10 times in five minutes to change direction.

"Following the violation, plane one left Turkish national airspace. Plane two was fired at while in Turkish national airspace by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in the area," Mr Cevik wrote in a letter, Reuters reports.

"Plane two crashed onto the Syria side of the Turkish-Syrian border," he said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has said the fighter jet was attacked when it was nearly a mile inside Syria and has warned of "serious consequences".
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US Military has confirmed the fact Turkey did in fact order the Russian jets to change directions, but got no response. However, it has not commented on which side of the border the place was shot at.
 
and more....

"I do think this points to an ongoing problem with Russian operations (in Syria)," Mr Obama continued, "in the sense that they are operating very close to a Turkish border and they are going after moderate opposition."

"If Russia is directing its energies towards Daesh and Isil (Islamic State), some of those conflicts or potentials for mistakes or escalation are less likely to occur."
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