Protests following the killing of George Floyd

Leroy The Red said:
And that’s a key difference.

I always chuckle when I see people throw out that first line. It is actually complete nonsense and is based on absolutely nothing and shows a distinct lack of knowledge on worldwide policing and doesn’t even make any sense.
To start with there’s actually only a handful of countries in the developed world whose police force DONT have guns. Guns are the norm in police forces around the world. One key difference is that these countries don’t give their fecking citizens guns too.

There’s also the other weirdly ignored thing in that there are plenty of black people in European countries with historical and ongoing racism issues and you don’t see black people being killed by police at the rate and in the manor you see it in the states with their police even though they have guns.

Even if we only speak about the U.K. and US. There are still plenty of officers in the U.K. with guns, we have armed officers and they attend plenty of incidents involving firearms, and it’s rare for these incidents to end in people being shot dead.

A Key difference is that these officers undergo intense and extensive training as well as mental and physical checks. They’re also vetted to the smallest detail. In Europe their officers take years to become full time and then get guns.

Meanwhile in America, you walk in on day one and 120 days later, “here’s your gun, knock yourself out”.

So when people say things like “if you get guns as freely in the U.K. like in the US itd be the same”. It’s actually a nonsensical saying Cos it would never happen. And due to the fact it doesn’t, it cuts out the significant recruiting of individuals whom are gun hungry, gun touting, deranged bigots who crave that power.
It’s like me saying I’ll be as good as Lio Messi if I had the same talent and attitude as Lio Messi. One is a consequence of the other.
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Great post. It’s the same up here in Norway. 3 years at the police academy, with a lot of focus on societal factors behind crime. That’s just to be a regular police officer, expect many months more of rigorous mental, physical and applicational tranining if you want to serve in the units who are brought in if situations need firearms. The police normally don’t carry guns here.

Always found the police academies in the US to be ridiculously short, and lacking.
 
Was reading the comments on a local media outlet here in Western Europe, christ...about 10% were sympathetic towards the protests, the other 90% was just utter shit. Constantly referring to the looting instead of discussing the issue of police brutality, hating the phrase '"black lives matter", and some even said George Floyd's death was "tragic but I saw no malicious intent by the cop". I just can't grasp the mentality of these folks.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Meanwhile in America, you walk in on day one and 120 days later, “here’s your gun, knock yourself out”.
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Police in America exist to protect property and the rights of property holders. Police officers aren't important and the system doesn't care if police and policed are at each other's throats (like now). They're all seen as cannonfodder in a wider structural/class issue.

Rioting is legitimate when police exist to protect wealth and those police are clearly racist.
 
VorZakone said:
Was reading the comments on a local media outlet here in Western Europe, christ...about 10% were sympathetic towards the protests, the other 90% was just utter shit. Constantly referring to the looting instead of discussing the issue of police brutality, hating the phrase '"black lives matter", and some even said George Floyd's death was "tragic but I saw no malicious intent by the cop". I just can't grasp the mentality of these folks.
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You can find idiocy if you go looking for it, sadly. Earlier Netflix tweeted a black lives matter message, and although most of the comments were positive, about 10% were saying all lives matter, and some even said they’d be cancelling Netflix as they shouldn’t wade into political discussion.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
It’s almost as if;
- Building War as a cornerstone of your economy
- Building a war machine to run on it
- Feeding that machine with wars against almost exclusively non-white countries
- Having a clear route that sees 1 in 5 Police Officers sourced from Veterans of these wars
- Militarising the police every time the war machine has some quiet years
- Telling the country that they need guns to fight future tyranny
- Allowing a right wing propaganda network to take in 50% of the eyeballs watching news every day

.... well it’s as if that creates a weird society that is ready to disintegrate when the oppressed decide they’ve had enough.

America is a disgusting place. Rotten to the core in all of the areas it should be pure.
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Finally it seems like the penny drops for all Americans!!


"Policing in the US is not about enforcing law. It’s about enforcing white supremacy. There’s no tinkering with that, what with white supremacy being the foundation on which the country was built. The consistent big question in the quest for racial justice has been how much white supremacy is central to the identity of the US.Enforcing the dehumanization of people of color has become, in the United States, what you call police work.

If we had something approaching equal justice, would we still even be the United States? In order to accomplish that we’d have to change the constitution, which authorizes much of the police violence that communities of color complain about, and the politics which exploits white anxiety about black and brown men." https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rcing-law-its-about-enforcing-white-supremacy
 
Nothing will change sadly. The not touting on your fellow officers mindset allows this to happen. Police captains etc out there acting like every officer are his sons will ensure this continues.
The comrade they have is a fantastic trait to have in fairness, its just a bit much
 
VorZakone said:
Was reading the comments on a local media outlet here in Western Europe, christ...about 10% were sympathetic towards the protests, the other 90% was just utter shit. Constantly referring to the looting instead of discussing the issue of police brutality, hating the phrase '"black lives matter", and some even said George Floyd's death was "tragic but I saw no malicious intent by the cop". I just can't grasp the mentality of these folks.
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Because the looting affects their sensibilities more than the police brutality, when they themselves had never been victims of the latter.
They can see themselves in the storeowners, in the people inconvenienced in their daily routines by the riot, in the scumbag police with his knee pressing down, but never in someone like George Floyd.

That’s why peaceful protest was never going to solve anything, because there’s no common interest between them and the oppressed.
 
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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
If there were global gatherings tomorrow that guaranteed the end of racial oppression if they hit critical mass, would you attend or self isolate?
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What are you hoping to gleam from me with your leading, hypothetical question which doesn't hold up to any realistic situation? If you insert any plausible situation or outcome into your leading question my answer at this time would be no. I am temporarily living with my mother with a serious lung condition and I wouldn't entertain the thought of leaving the house and possibly exposing her to the virus. You'll probably infer from that answer and my previous statement that I don't care about the stain that is institutional racism, but that would be disingenuous and you know it.
 
sammsky1 said:
Am bumping this post again.

young lady explains simply and concisely why these protests need to take place.

It should be stickered as first post on every page of this thread as this so anyone claiming ‘devils advicate’ or that ‘protesters are in the wrong’ or ‘tired of racism angle’ should watch this VDO and see if their POV can defeat this lady’s explanation.
[/QUOTE
Personally I think she is exaggerating a bit for camera. She says she feel afraid walking down the street and how we don't get to see the beautiful buildings yet she probably studying at Berkley university and the daughter of a doctor living in Beverley Hills. She is afraid every time a police officer Walks past her. Why? That's hyperbole. Every day the police have millions of encounters with African Americans that do not result in death or injury. To say you are blanket afraid of them is paranoia. The country is fuelled by it. I agree with her point about police forgetting they work for black people and I feel they think they are working against black people instead. They Definately need to change their attitudes and assuming black people are crimimals
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Pretty clear now that antifa/anarchists are coming in from out of town to cause as much damage as they can.



 
Handré1990 said:
Great post. It’s the same up here in Norway. 3 years at the police academy, with a lot of focus on societal factors behind crime. That’s just to be a regular police officer, expect many months more of rigorous mental, physical and applicational tranining if you want to serve in the units who are brought in if situations need firearms. The police normally don’t carry guns here.

Always found the police academies in the US to be ridiculously short, and lacking.
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Steve Guttenberg did a series of documentaries about Police Academies in the US that is really eye-opening.
 
Van Jones makes a good case in saying enough is enough. No more we can change laws and we can do it within the system.
This is the only way.
 
Foxbatt said:
Van Jones makes a good case in saying enough is enough. No more we can change laws and we can do it within the system.
This is the only way.
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Van Jones has made a career being a mouthpiece for the same white Hillary lieral he just told everyone was the problem. Don't look to him for solutions.
 
JPRouve said:
Do you think that they can't understand or that they understand perfectly but are using the system for their own benefit?
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They don’t understand, just like I don’t really. I don’t think you really can unless you’ve experienced it first hand. For the rest of us it’s something you think about sometimes, when it’s in the news for instance, or a protest happens locally. I don’t have to think about it if I pop out to the shops in the evening, or drive my car during the day, or know one of my brothers is going for a night out.

I understand why they want peacefulness and patience, because it’s what I’d want too. Because it’s not me having to be patient, and having to live with the consequences in the meantime.
 
neverdie said:
Van Jones has made a career being a mouthpiece for the same white Hillary lieral he just told everyone was the problem. Don't look to him for solutions.
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That was the point he was making. That he has been told they don't believe in what he says anymore. That they are fed up with guys like him who tell them they are one bill away from a change.
He now agree with those people who have told him to eff off.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Because the looting affects their sensibilities more than the police brutality, when they themselves had never been victims of the latter.
They can see themselves in the storeowners, in the people inconvenienced in their daily routines by the riot, in the scumbag police with his knee pressing down, but never in someone like George Floyd.

That’s why peaceful protest was never going to solve anything, because there’s no common interest between them and the oppressed.
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Amen.
 
And just to reiterate, we’re in the middle of a fecking global pandemic!!

The pictures of crowds of protestors in London is fecking insane.

We'll end up seeing a spike again because of this and given the disproportionate impact on BAME patients, it’s just mental for people to be acting this way.

Again, what happened to George Floyd in America is abhorrent but put down your signs and stay the feck home.
 
Kentonio said:
They don’t understand, just like I don’t really. I don’t think you really can unless you’ve experienced it first hand. For the rest of us it’s something you think about sometimes, when it’s in the news for instance, or a protest happens locally. I don’t have to think about it if I pop out to the shops in the evening, or drive my car during the day, or know one of my brothers is going for a night out.

I understand why they want peacefulness and patience, because it’s what I’d want too. Because it’s not me having to be patient, and having to live with the consequences in the meantime.
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I used to think as you do but in the last weeks, I have been asking myself the question. The Amy Cooper story is kind of puzzling, how many people are like her or in similar social circles, people that know how african americans are treated by the police, know how they feel about interactions with the police and won't do a thing outside of using it against african americans when it benefits them. How many are willfully ignorant or pretend to be?
 
Foxbatt said:
Van Jones makes a good case in saying enough is enough. No more we can change laws and we can do it within the system.
This is the only way.
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In my opinion this issue is a very messy affair and I don't see light at the end of the tunnel as far as I can see

The blacks will no doubt be hurtful with all this George Floyd happening, the only thing they get out of all this is a further mistrust and hatred towards the system, the whites, the cops etc.
The racist whites will feel vindication that blacks are looters, and whatever narratives they come out with.
The good police will remain good as they have always been with or without this incidents
The bad police will probably begrudgingly lay low for the time being before doing what they did best once the dust settled down.
This incidents changes nobody, those entrenched in each side will remain trenched.
You won't going to see the white supremacist suddenly moved and changed because of what happens with George, and I don't think any black Americans will change their stance after this riot. Damn some Korean Americans are still feeling some hurt from 1992.
Parents from both sides will teach their kids about 2020, and you can be sure it won't be neutral. People from all sides will take sides at least opinion wise about this whole 2020 riots. We all moderate our views in forums, discussions, and in most aspect of lives but rest assured we all take sides either way.

I can understand the frustrations penned up when year after year, incidents after incidents, the perpetrators getting more brutal by day, nothing changed, at one point the straw will break the camels back and civil disobedient is inevitable. I'm not even white/black or Americans but I would gladly march on that street if I were there. As a Christian I'd say violence is never the answer, but when one party keep coming harder, and harder and relentless in their pursuit of hate there's only so much you can bear. The lord says give your other cheek, but if that other cheek got slapped it's time to fight back.

I don't think Biden if elected are going to reform the whole police and justice system, let alone Trump. Even if someone who genuinely care for all this got elected, i doubt he has the time, the willpower, the political capital, the support to make such a reform. It feels to me that Chauvin are just the tip of the iceberg and not the bad apples.

I agree Americans need a total reform, i just don't think it's possible. Because tl;dr those that doesn't want changes are actually large in number.
 
Heardy said:
Again, what happened to George Floyd in America is abhorrent but put down your signs and stay the feck home.
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I think if you've been affected like these people have then you'll care less about a virus than you do.
 
People don't wake up one day and decide rioting is the best valid option. Rather, it becomes the only one when all else fails.

It's unfortunate that other groups (soi disant anarchists) try to ride office the back of it for the frills. Smash shit, escalate it then return to their 9-5s. What a bunch of wankers.
 
Grinner said:
Steve Guttenberg did a series of documentaries about Police Academies in the US that is really eye-opening.
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:lol:

Apparently the average time spent at police academies are between 13-19 weeks. Weeks! Add to that the fact that many of them don’t seem like the brightest bunch and you’ve got a stew cooking.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
It’s almost as if;

- Building War as a cornerstone of your economy
- Building a war machine to run on it
- Feeding that machine with wars against almost exclusively non-white countries
- Having a clear route that sees 1 in 5 Police Officers sourced from Veterans of these wars
- Militarising the police every time the war machine has some quiet years
- Telling the country that they need guns to fight future tyranny
- Allowing a right wing propaganda network to take in 50% of the eyeballs watching news every day

.... well it’s as if that creates a weird society that is ready to disintegrate when the oppressed decide they’ve had enough.

America is a disgusting place. Rotten to the core in all of the areas it should be pure.
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100%. You articulated this better than I could.
 
P-Ro said:
What are you hoping to gleam from me with your leading, hypothetical question which doesn't hold up to any realistic situation? If you insert any plausible situation or outcome into your leading question my answer at this time would be no. I am temporarily living with my mother with a serious lung condition and I wouldn't entertain the thought of leaving the house and possibly exposing her to the virus. You'll probably infer from that answer and my previous statement that I don't care about the stain that is institutional racism, but that would be disingenuous and you know it.
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Of course I wouldn’t do that. I’m just showing that for many protesting, Covid-19 is a very distance second place right now. And rightfully so.
 
utdalltheway said:
Did you guys touch on the anonymous hackers threat to air all the MPDs dirty laundry after they hacked their computer system? I kinda hope they do so maybe some light can be shed on the internal workings.
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Why threat, just do it.
 
It’s like the EDL dickhead moaning about “musk amid ray guns”

Riots are not the answer and will only do more damage than good.

tell me how aggrieved young black protesters looting a Louis Vuitton store does anything to conquer racism?

These riots are an excuse for people to act like senseless thieving little cnuts. It achieves feck all in terms of acting against racism.
 
Heardy said:
A huge proportion of these rioters will be white, or even of a minority background that have encountered anything close to police brutality on a personal level.
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Thank goodness not everyone needs to have a fecking knee on their neck to sympathize with people who are at risk of dying the same way.

Your comments sound real dumb now. Everyone getting involved in these protests increases the chances something gets done.
 
Heardy said:
It’s like the EDL dickhead moaning about “musk amid ray guns”

Riots are not the answer and will only do more damage than good.

tell me how aggrieved young black protesters looting a Louis Vuitton store does anything to conquer racism?

These riots are an excuse for people to act like senseless thieving little cnuts. It achieves feck all in terms of acting against racism.
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What is the answer then? Please educate us.

And why are you so worried about the LV store? Do you own one? Are you a shareholder?
 
Heardy said:
tell me how aggrieved young black protesters looting a Louis Vuitton store does anything to conquer racism?
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Side effect of wider protests. Always happens. You're focusing on the least important aspect of the entire protest.
 
Amazing. The "yeah it's awful but..." argument again. No one needs to get killed over a potential counterfeit bill. What the feck is this way of thinking?

 
Heardy said:
A huge proportion of these rioters will be white, or even of a minority background that have encountered anything close to police brutality on a personal level.
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Look it’s not about saying the rioters are good, or that’s the right thing to do, it’s about accepting that this is an inevitable consequence of the injustice that’s been going on for centuries now. If you don’t want to see rioting, then fix the problems that lead to rioting. Complaining about the rioters is just pointless.
 
JPRouve said:
I used to think as you do but in the last weeks, I have been asking myself the question. The Amy Cooper story is kind of puzzling, how many people are like her or in similar social circles, people that know how african americans are treated by the police, know how they feel about interactions with the police and won't do a thing outside of using it against african americans when it benefits them. How many are willfully ignorant or pretend to be?
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I think it's also fear.

It takes real courage to stand up for something, most would probably chose to keep their mouth shut and just play neutral. Especially if they're not involved directly. We all know how a tweet here or a post there can ruin lives. Hence this 2020 riots kinda empower those that wants to voiced out but can't all this time, we see people of all colors joining the protest (and some goes beyond simply protest, there are white folks literally fighting the cops). But if this is normal time would they be the one to throw the first brick? Intimidation is real, the good cops are sometime ostracized by the system they're powerless to stop the bad guys, let alone some guys in the internet.

We're hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, if I'm an american living in america and having a coworkers who's white I'd probably try to keep my view as neutral as I can be as you'll never know who's who out there. Even in this very forum there are people who has a very questionable view point. Race/religion/politics is always a sensitive issue.
 


I bet they were on their way to some emergency and they were blocked by the violently sitting protesters
 
Heardy said:
It’s like the EDL dickhead moaning about “musk amid ray guns”

Riots are not the answer and will only do more damage than good.

tell me how aggrieved young black protesters looting a Louis Vuitton store does anything to conquer racism?

These riots are an excuse for people to act like senseless thieving little cnuts. It achieves feck all in terms of acting against racism.
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You write a as if the looters are there for a cause. They're opportunists for ffs, don't group them with those actually their fighting for their right to life.

People like you are part of the problem. The simpleton reductionist. Well done.
 
TheReligion said:
I wonder if they are trained to do that or something during their unarmed tactics? It's certainly not something that exists within training in the UK however it does seem a coincidence that it's happening again here under the circumstances.
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Thats a military technique used to subdue non combatants. It's either taught by the warrior training that many police departments recieve or it's bought over from the military by ex soldiers.
 
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