Protests following the killing of George Floyd

starman said:
Is this not a thing that doesnt happen to every race then? I have done this to white "powerful" people myself while doing a tempting job when at university.
I dont see how he can make the claim he was racially profiled without it being clear. The guy seems to be on a power trip more than anything...
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Sorry, you're saying you directed all random people to the service entrance when you were working in security?

I guess you can never know about things like this 100% until he shouts something like 'where you belong' after telling him to go away. I've mentioned a few times actually its why British racism bothers me so much more than it does in America or in the Middle East or Australia. There generally if people are racist, I've found they're more likely to do it to your face. In the UK, its much more subtle.

But I'll give you some examples at my own work:

-Women are confused all the time on the wards, by both patients and other members of staff, as nurses. Even when they say they are the doctor, sometimes the doctor in charge of their care, many patients will still call them nurse.
-This problem is amplified if you're a woman of colour, particularly if you're black.
-This does not happen if you're a white male.

-As a tall black man, I don't get confused for a nurse very much. But if I am not wearing my name badge or steth (and am in scrubs), I have been confused for a domestic worker or a cleaner at times. Again, guess how many times this has happened to my white, especially male colleagues?

-Colleagues with hijab have it terribly with stuff like this. I have seen patients' whole demeanour change when a doctor wearing a hijab comes in. What was previously a cheery patient becomes cold, distant, monosyllabic. It is so clear.

I've mentioned it on this forum before but my wife is mixed race (no black) and much lighter than me. Our kids are a pretty broad spectrum of colours and it breaks my heart to see that the darker ones are treated differently than the lighter ones.

So yes, sometimes perhaps there is a good reason to stop and search the person going through the building. Perhaps there is a good reason he's asked someone to go to the service bay. Perhaps the guy is not even racist (tbh, I suspect he's not, just dealing with subconscious biases like all of us are).

But let's not pretend that this issue affects us all equally. Or that, as small as it may seem, does not exhaust people when it happens over your entire life.
 
Jippy said:
I guess this is the day to day stuff that grinds people down and if on one of those occasions he flips, then he will no doubt be condemned as 'up himself' or 'aggressive'. I can't begin to imagine how that must feel.
Sorry to bring in the DM again, but the down votes here really seem to reflect that many will still somehow blame the black guy for this, maybe how he was dressed or whatever.

3T3ncy1.jpg
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It is sad but like Oates said, I actually would not have fired him. I doubt he's actively racist neceassarily, probably holds a lot of subconscious bias like almost all of us do against one group or another.

Some people are beyond help but I genuinely think (perhaps I'm naive) that if you sit down and explain things to people, a good number will try to understand.
 
starman said:
What establishments are you talking about? Its sound like you are going to a nightclub and complaining about young people getting in instead of you...
I don't see how what you have said relates to someone of power not being recognised and told to "use the loading bay" is based on the assumption because he is black.
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Why would you assume I'm only talking about nightclubs? And even if I was, why would you then assume I was offended by young people getting in, even though I alluded to the fact that this has been a thing since I was one of those young people? In a thread based on the different ways people of different races are treated, after a post about a person being refused entry based on his race?

But anyway, if you can't see the relevance of my post or experience then I don't know what else to tell you...

It's kinda why these types of anecdotes/experiences only circle around minority communities, because when you tell them outside of those circles, people don't believe you or try to explain it away, or make out you 'have a chip on your shoulder'. Kinda like police brutality, and the Karen phenomenon... Until recently. And even then...
 
afrocentricity said:
Because it happens repeatedly from the moment we start to visit these establishments in our teens. I still get turned away sometimes in my 40s with grey fecking hairs for wearing shoes that look like trainers while white looking young people get in before and after me in ripped jeans and vans. When you know, you know. It is what it is, but let's not pretend it's not a thing, or do the 'both sides' arguement.

Shit, some of you have seen it happen and probably not even realised what's going on, just assuming these 'urban' guys are probably trouble...
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This would happen to one of my mates a lot when we went out for drinks especially if we weren't all going in together. He'd make it all into a source of amusement of course but it was fecked up.

I don't think it's subconscious bias as much as deliberate profiling of desired clientele.

I'm always confused that people think racial profiling is fine because they're not racist and don't hate whatever race they're profiling. As if that should make the victim feel okay about it.
 
afrocentricity said:
Why would you assume I'm only talking about nightclubs? And even if I was, why would you then assume I was offended by young people getting in, even though I alluded to the fact that this has been a thing since I was one of those young people? In a thread based on the different ways people of different races are treated, after a post about a person being refused entry based on his race?

But anyway, if you can't see the relevance of my post or experience then I don't know what else to tell you...

It's kinda why these types of anecdotes/experiences only circle around minority communities, because when you tell them outside of those circles, people don't believe you or try to explain it away, or make out you 'have a chip on your shoulder'. Kinda like police brutality, and the Karen phenomenon... Until recently. And even then...
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:lol: You seem paranoid as hell..

I am literally telling you I have been in the exact same situation and you are going off in another direction with a long winded rant
 
starman said:
:lol: You seem paranoid as hell..

I am literally telling you I have been in the exact same situation and you are going off in another direction with a long winded rant
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Can you see how it may come across when people are trying to talk to you about their experiences of being racially profiled and your response is, rather than attempting to understand their perspective, instead ignoring a whole post about such experiences and belittle and mock another?
 
Smores said:
This would happen to one of my mates a lot when we went out for drinks especially if we weren't all going in together. He'd make it all into a source of amusement of course but it was fecked up.

I don't think it's subconscious bias as much as deliberate profiling of desired clientele.

I'm always confused that people think racial profiling is fine because they're not racist and don't hate whatever race they're profiling. As if that should make the victim feel okay about it.
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Yeah it's shit, but I've kinda just accepted it.... and usually the guys aren't overly racist as I worked in clubs and bars for years with bouncers that would do the same and there was never usually anything more than banter directed my way. Some of them are still friends to this day.

It is what it is. What can you do?
 
africanspur said:
It is sad but like Oates said, I actually would not have fired him. I doubt he's actively racist neceassarily, probably holds a lot of subconscious bias like almost all of us do against one group or another.

Some people are beyond help but I genuinely think (perhaps I'm naive) that if you sit down and explain things to people, a good number will try to understand.
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He should go on that anti-racist course with the tech CEO.
Agree it was quite possibly subconscious bias, but it does show that changing perceptions could take many years, if not a generation or two, if they're that ingrained.

RedTiger said:
Guys, it wasn't the editor who dismissed the security guard, it was the third party security firm he worked for that dismissed him and i would have done the same to protect a large contract like Conde Nast.
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I don't think anyone's said that tbh. As you sat, it will be a security firm employed by the building manager.
 
africanspur said:
Sorry, you're saying you directed all random people to the service entrance when you were working in security?

I guess you can never know about things like this 100% until he shouts something like 'where you belong' after telling him to go away. I've mentioned a few times actually its why British racism bothers me so much more than it does in America or in the Middle East or Australia. There generally if people are racist, I've found they're more likely to do it to your face. In the UK, its much more subtle.

But I'll give you some examples at my own work:

-Women are confused all the time on the wards, by both patients and other members of staff, as nurses. Even when they say they are the doctor, sometimes the doctor in charge of their care, many patients will still call them nurse.
-This problem is amplified if you're a woman of colour, particularly if you're black.
-This does not happen if you're a white male.

-As a tall black man, I don't get confused for a nurse very much. But if I am not wearing my name badge or steth (and am in scrubs), I have been confused for a domestic worker or a cleaner at times. Again, guess how many times this has happened to my white, especially male colleagues?

-Colleagues with hijab have it terribly with stuff like this. I have seen patients' whole demeanour change when a doctor wearing a hijab comes in. What was previously a cheery patient becomes cold, distant, monosyllabic. It is so clear.

I've mentioned it on this forum before but my wife is mixed race (no black) and much lighter than me. Our kids are a pretty broad spectrum of colours and it breaks my heart to see that the darker ones are treated differently than the lighter ones.

So yes, sometimes perhaps there is a good reason to stop and search the person going through the building. Perhaps there is a good reason he's asked someone to go to the service bay. Perhaps the guy is not even racist (tbh, I suspect he's not, just dealing with subconscious biases like all of us are).

But let's not pretend that this issue affects us all equally. Or that, as small as it may seem, does not exhaust people when it happens over your entire life.
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We dont even know the full story of this particular situation, its just this assumption it must be racist, have people not learnt from other instances to not jump the gun? All he has said was he was told to "use the loading bay"

When people have not had their ID, they had been asked to go to another entrance with more rigorous security checks, so going to the loading bay where delivery drivers are bring in packages to the building is logical.
To me it seems a case of the guy is more offended he has not be instantly recognised or allowed to enter without ID and is on a power trip, this a common occurrence when i dealt with high powered people like this before. But yeah, lets just go with the automatic assumption that the security guard thought he was a delivery driver because he is black...
 
africanspur said:
Can you see how it may come across when people are trying to talk to you about their experiences of being racially profiled and your response is, rather than attempting to understand their perspective, instead ignoring a whole post about such experiences and belittle and mock another?
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What about my experience? you have no idea what ethnicity i am? And again i am telling you I have been in the exact situation being described, not twisting things in other directions
 
starman said:
We dont even know the full story of this particular situation, its just this assumption its must racist, have people learnt from other instances to not jump the gun? All he has said was he was told "use the loading bay"

When people have not had their ID, they had been asked to go to another entrance with more rigorous security checks, so going to the loading bay where delivery drivers are bring in packages to the building is logical.
To me it seem a case of the guy is more offended he has not be instantly recognised or allowed to enter without ID and is on power trip, this a common occurrence when i dealt with high powered people like this before. But yeah, lets just go with the automatic assumption that the security guard thought he was delivery driver because he is black...
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I feel you've sidestepped the main topic of discussion here sadly.

Do you have anything to say about the examples I gave? Perhaps I really do look like someone who needs to clean that spill? Or the Indian woman really does just look like a nurse, despite repeating over and over again that she's a doctor?

So let's not jump to conclusions but this guy is probably on a power trip? And all these other occasions people have been talking about are also power trips. And the occasions I see my darker kids being treated differently to my lighter kids in front of my eyes, power trip and paranoia I assume?

The main issue here is that you have assumed that the security guard has done nothing wrong and has treated this gentleman in the same way he would treat others. More often than not, that isn't the case, and our treatment is visibly different, even if the person doing it is not even aware that they're doing it.

Its a real shame that is the approach you have chosen to take in my opinion.
 
starman said:
What about my experience? you have no idea what ethnicity i am? And again i am telling you I have been in the exact situation being described, not twisting things in other directions
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What about your experience? Have I, at any point, attempted to guess your experience or your ethnicity?

If you attempted to actually properly explain what your experience is beyond vague comments about how you'd tell anyone to go to the loading bay, as opposed to telling someone they're paranoid, I would be very happy to listen and try to understand your point of view.
 
africanspur said:
I feel you've sidestepped the main topic of discussion here sadly.

Do you have anything to say about the examples I gave? Perhaps I really do look like someone who needs to clean that spill? Or the Indian woman really does just look like a nurse, despite repeating over and over again that she's a doctor?

So let's not jump to conclusions but this guy is probably on a power trip? And all these other occasions people have been talking about are also power trips. And the occasions I see my darker kids being treated differently to my lighter kids in front of my eyes, power trip and paranoia I assume?

The main issue here is that you have assumed that the security guard has done nothing wrong and has treated this gentleman in the same way he would treat others. More often than not, that isn't the case, and our treatment is visibly different, even if the person doing it is not even aware that they're doing it.

Its a real shame that is the approach you have chosen to take in my opinion.
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Have you not taken anything on board about the bit of using the loading bay for extra security?

Me assuming from knowing procedures, is not the same as people jumping on board of those saying, " yup, that racists shut and close case", Use some sense ffs :rolleyes:
 
starman said:
Have you not taken anything on board about the bit of using the loading bay for extra security?

Me assuming from knowing procedures, is not the same as people jumping on board of those saying, " yup, that racists shut and close case", Use some sense ffs :rolleyes:
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Have you actually read any of my posts on this thread? I haven't called him a racist. I have said I wouldn't have fired him. I have not tried to close any case and have instead tried to discuss with you as two adults in a civl manner.

I assume his issue is being asked to go through 'extra security', seemingly for the first time (may well come out that its not) when he is not usually asked to do so and perhaps when his colleagues have not been asked to either.

Do you think all of the situations afrocentricity and I have elucidated (which are just a drop in the ocean) are real or overly paranoid people?
 
africanspur said:
What about your experience? Have I, at any point, attempted to guess your experience or your ethnicity?

If you attempted to actually properly explain what your experience is beyond vague comments about how you'd tell anyone to go to the loading bay, as opposed to telling someone they're paranoid, I would be very happy to listen and try to understand your point of view.
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If people actually try and stick on point rather then this constantly need to twist directions, and not even resembling the same environment and settings, then things will be easier to diagnose.
 
africanspur said:
Have you actually read any of my posts on this thread? I haven't called him a racist. I have said I wouldn't have fired him. I have not tried to close any case and have instead tried to discuss with you as two adults in a civl manner.

I assume his issue is being asked to go through 'extra security', seemingly for the first time (may well come out that its not) when he is not usually asked to do so and perhaps when his colleagues have not been asked to either.

Do you think all of the situations afrocentricity and I have elucidated (which are just a drop in the ocean) are real or overly paranoid people?
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I am referring to the situation as a whole and how its been portrayed, you only need to click on the tweet within the article to see the instant condemnation. I never said you said he was racist, afrocentricity was the one that strongly applied it was a instance of racism.

The paranoia is linking every situation as being the same and the need to do so, rather than sticking on point
 
starman said:
I am referring to the situation as a whole and how its been portrayed, you only need to click on the tweet within the article to see the instant condemnation. I never said you said he was racist, afrocentricity was the one that strongly applied it was a instance of racism.

The paranoia is linking every situation as being the same and the need to do so, rather than sticking on point
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You know as much as the rest of us, I'm taking the article on face value and you're the one changing the scenario to fit whatever your preference is. Take a step back and stop being a twat (in general and to individual posters).
 
afrocentricity said:
You know as much as the rest of us, I'm taking the article on face value and you're the one changing the scenario to fit whatever your preference is. Take a step back and stop being a twat (in general and to individual posters).
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:lol:
Such a pathetic lie, its sad how much you are willing to try and twist things

Yeh, me the person who says they have been in the same situation is changing the scenario, not you, who starts talking about "establishments", was it a night club or not?, we dont really know because you seemed to take offence, then start waffling on unrelated things :wenger:
 
starman said:
If people actually try and stick on point rather then this constantly need to twist directions, and not even resembling the same environment and settings, then things will be easier to diagnose.
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What exactly is 'the point'? And what are we trying to diagnose?

I have to be honest, your whole approach through this interaction has been very unpleasant, particularly to afrocentricity.
 
starman said:
:lol:
Such a pathetic lie, its sad how much you are willing to try and twist things

Yeh, me the person who says they have been in the same situation is changing the scenario, not you, who starts talking about "establishments", was it a night club or not?, we dont really know because you seemed to take offence, then start waffling on unrelated things :wenger:
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Let me bring you back, to the actual article, and not all this 'well actually...' what if stuff you want us to engage in....

africanspur said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53425148

Edward Enninful: British Vogue editor 'racially profiled' at work

Much less obvious than Floyd, Martin or Taylor but, for the majority of black people (and other people of colour), this is a very real and consistent lived experience.

As a one-off it may not seem that bad but it gets incredibly tiring when it happens persistently.
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To my mind, my post about being racially profiled (be that at bars, nightclubs, restaurants, etc... doesn't really matter) is related and valid.

So if you want to carry on with your nonsense and generally rude dismissive posts you can feck off. I don't have time for it....
 
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AFC NimbleThumb said:
Thought poor training is an American problem.

Where are the resident bobbies to tell us how Bachelors degrees make them less thuggish?

“The man placed his neck under the officers knee” :rolleyes:
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This was my trail of thought as well.

Thought these things didn't happen over here and all that.
 


Love the so-called urgency of the police. Hope these grifters are happy with their performance.
 
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FireballXL5 said:
Wait....there's an actual monument for a fecking SS division.....in Canada?????? :eek:
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It's a strange one. Apparently it's a monument to a Ukrainian SS division, put up by the local Ukrainian community. It would likely be more representative of the fight against Soviet oppression than Nazi ideology.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
It's a strange one. Apparently it's a monument to a Ukrainian SS division, put up by the local Ukrainian community. It would likely be more representative of the fight against Soviet oppression than Nazi ideology.
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That is a real tortuous path right there!
 
So ill be honest guys. After burning myself out a bit following the protests non-stop for the first 2-3 weeks I sort of took a step back due to various factors. Can anyone give a really high level overview of what has happened in the last ~month regarding the protests? Have they fizzled out a little or still going strong?
 
Walrus said:
So ill be honest guys. After burning myself out a bit following the protests non-stop for the first 2-3 weeks I sort of took a step back due to various factors. Can anyone give a really high level overview of what has happened in the last ~month regarding the protests? Have they fizzled out a little or still going strong?
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I was in the same boat so can't give you an overview I'm afraid.

I had a quick check on Twitter and some very concerning things going on. Federal troops in Portland are apparently being quite heavy handed with peaceful protesters and taking people away in unmarked cars.





Trump says they're doing a great job and is threatening to send Federal troops into other cities.

 
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