Protests following the killing of George Floyd

Garethw said:
I meant outside of that quote I hadn’t mentioned China.

I wasn’t meaning to offend by the way, but I saw videos where black people were refused service in China recently. Flat out refused.

If that was happening in the UK I’d agree that we were a racist country but it wouldn’t be tolerated here.
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Racism exist everywhere, if you're gonna highlight a small incident about a restaurant owner being a dick yet you turn a blind eye on half Europe protesting on George Floyd, Breona Taylor, Ahmaud Auberry and even brutalized the protester even further on live telly. But let's not talk about them, let's talk about China?


BTW:

screenshot_2019-09-23-d091d0b5d181d186d0b5d0bdd0bdd18bd0b5-d0bad0b8d0bdd0bed0b4d0bed0bad183d0bcd0b5d0bdd182d18b-d0a0d0bed181d181d0b8d18f-24-d0bfd0bed0bad0b0d0b6d0b5d182-d09ad0b8d182d0b0d.png


Under British rule in HK this plaque exist
 
Sara125 said:
Just out of curiosity, what is stopping you from creating an AsianLivesMatter movement?

Gonna go out on a limb and say like a lot of people such as yourself, you haven’t cared about racism against Asians a day in your life and are only now bringing it up to derail a black movement
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Okay then you keep making assumptions.
 
I find it interesting that people here is more forgiving towards Churchill than Hitler.
Both are massive racists that are responsible in the deaths of millions of people. But somehow Churchill is less evil because reasons.

Almost feels like brown lives were valued less.
 
Garethw said:
Two of my best friends are black. One since childhood and one through football since my late teens. Yes I have experienced racism. Not personally but against my friends.

I will not tolerate it In any shape or form. I’ve always had my friends backs and it’s got me into a lot of trouble in the past.

Racism is a disease that needs eradicating. But rioting is not the cure.
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It's great that you're very supportive of your friends but I don't think you're in a position to make the claim that the UK isn't racist. I don't care what anybody says but the whole Brexit thing was driven by a racist narrative and philosophy and the UK went along with it. You've even lived it vicariously through your friends so you know it occurs.

I'm not going to jump on you as there's a lot of unnecessary aggression in this thread. Nobody's saying rioting is the cure but at times it may be necessary as part of the cause.
 
reelworld said:
I find it interesting that people here is more forgiving towards Churchill than Hitler.
Both are massive racists that are responsible in the deaths of millions of people. But somehow Churchill is less evil because reasons.

Almost feels like brown lives were valued less.
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This is getting stupid now.
 
van der star said:
Sounds fantastic in theory but in the real world you might be the best person ever with the nicest of actions, and yet, if the system is rigged against you because of the colour of your skin or your nationality, you will most certainly suffer. And that most certainly is still the case in the UK, sure it's not as bad as 30-40 years ago but that's really not a suitable justification.
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I know mate. I’m not disagreeing. There is much work Still to be done. We need to find An equilibrium.
Sara125 said:
:lol: The UK is very much a racist country. The problem with people like you is that you can only see things in extremes so because there are no camps like China (or whatever they have going on over there) or no killing of black men in cold blood like America (even though it does and has happened here just not at the same rate and the same kind of brutality) it means that the UK is not racist? Ask any person of colour, including myself, what we have to deal with. Oh but because people aren’t outright calling us the n word all the time and there is no widespread neo nazi/redneck/white supremacist culture over here it means that we should be lucky and the UK is racism free :rolleyes:

By your logic, can we say that the UK isn’t a cold country because Scandinavian countries are ‘actually cold’?
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I will bow to your superior knowledge of this mate. After all you are living through it. You have made some fantastic points and I would never Look to deliberately sugar coat the situation.

I’ve never considered the UK an overly racist country, but then I’m not looking at it through the eyes of a black person.

I’ve seen racism in pockets, here and there, but not everywhere. But that is my perspective which I know is not everyone’s perspective. So please forgive any ignorance on my part.
 
Garethw said:
I know mate. I’m not disagreeing. There is much work Still to be done. We need to find An equilibrium.


I will bow to your superior knowledge of this mate. After all you are living through it. You have made some fantastic points and I would never Look to deliberately sugar coat the situation.

I’ve never considered the UK an overly racist country, but then I’m not looking at it through the eyes of a black person.

I’ve seen racism in pockets, here and there, but not everywhere. But that is my perspective which I know is not everyone’s perspective. So please forgive any ignorance on my part.
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It’s fine. I appreciate your willingness to learn and understand.
 
Sara125 said:
:lol: The UK is very much a racist country. The problem with people like you is that you can only see things in extremes so because there are no camps like China (or whatever they have going on over there) or no killing of black men in cold blood like America (even though it does and has happened here just not at the same rate and the same kind of brutality) it means that the UK is not racist? Ask any person of colour, including myself, what we have to deal with. Oh but because people aren’t outright calling us the n word all the time and there is no widespread neo nazi/redneck/white supremacist culture over here it means that we should be lucky and the UK is racism free :rolleyes:

By your logic, can we say that the UK isn’t a cold country because Scandinavian countries are ‘actually cold’?
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Surely the vast majority are not though are they? Do you believe with every new generation it will get better? Because 30 years ago it was disgusting. Just curious.
 
fergies coat said:
Surely the vast majority are not though are they? Do you believe with every new generation it will get better? Because 30 years ago it was disgusting. Just curious.
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The question was not if it’s better than x years ago or if it’s less racist than x country. That poster said the UK isn’t a racist country. The UK is racist full stop. It doesn’t need to be compared. Racism is racism.
 
Garethw said:
I meant outside of that quote I hadn’t mentioned China.

I wasn’t meaning to offend by the way, but I saw videos where black people were refused service in China recently. Flat out refused.

If that was happening in the UK I’d agree that we were a racist country but it wouldn’t be tolerated here.
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Just to point out this does happen here, but in a more obscure way.

I've stood in a car showroom completely blanked by every single member of staff in there sat drinking tea.

I stood there for 5 minutes having a look at the cars etc, and then another 5 stood next to the desk with a brochure in my hand of the car I wanted to enquire about. A white guy then walked in and was immediately greeted asking which car he wanted to enquire about and if there was any way in which they could help.

It's not outright denying you service, but it's making it very clear they don't feel you belong there.
 
reelworld said:
Why?
Did the people who died in Bengal Famine matter less than the people who died in holocaust?
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This is a good point. Seems like the genocidal acts of Churchill and King Léopold etc. do not matter or are ‘not as bad’ because their victims were people of colour even though what they did is literally no different to Hitler.
 
Sara125 said:
Whenever I see comments such as yours it’s always on the back of something black people are doing. Never seen all lives matter or Asians this or that in a vacuum.
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Its got nothing to with what black people are doing, and I've never said all lives matter.

I was debating the other day about the term white privilege. I didn't really understand what it meant, because i grew up poor with a single mum. I didn't feel privileged, somebody pointed out what it was about and i understood it.

I'm just trying to learn, and understand things better.
 
fergies coat said:
Its got nothing to with what black people are doing, and I've never said all lives matter.

I was debating the other day about the term white privilege. I didn't really understand what it meant, because i grew up poor with a single mum. I didn't feel privileged, somebody pointed out what it was about and i understood it.

I'm just trying to learn, and understand things better.
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Err, you literally asked why BLM doesn’t include Asians. As for the second part of the bit in bold, you may not have said all lives matter but I was speaking generally of people like you who say such things to derail.
 
P-Nut said:
Just to point out this does happen here, but in a more obscure way.

I've stood in a car showroom completely blanked by every single member of staff in there sat drinking tea.

I stood there for 5 minutes having a look at the cars etc, and then another 5 stood next to the desk with a brochure in my hand of the car I wanted to enquire about. A white guy then walked in and was immediately greeted asking which car he wanted to enquire about and if there was any way in which they could help.

It's not outright denying you service, but it's making it very clear they don't feel you belong there.
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Wow, that’s horrendous mate:(
 
Garethw said:
It’s what it symbolises. Basically burning the whole country down.

It’s the white supremacy flags and KKK flags that should be being burnt.

The UK is not a racist country. It’s not.

It has its element of racist scum like everywhere else, but it is not Universally racist.

If you want examples of racism you only need look to countries like China.

We have work to do here, but The UK is not fecking comparable to actual racist countries.
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To be fair mate, the UK was founded on racism. From the British Empire atrocities and slave trade to modern day Windrush unlawful deportations and Grenfell. It is very comparable to racist countries.
 
reelworld said:
I find it interesting that people here is more forgiving towards Churchill than Hitler.
Both are massive racists that are responsible in the deaths of millions of people. But somehow Churchill is less evil because reasons.

Almost feels like brown lives were valued less.
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Sara125 said:
This is a good point. Seems like the genocidal acts of Churchill and King Léopold etc. do not matter or are ‘not as bad’ because their victims were people of colour even though what they did is literally no different to Hitler.
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Let's not got there. It's basically the "all lives matter" logic turned against the victims of the Holocaust.

The criticism of British indifference towards the victims of British colonialism should (and can) be done without falling into that trap.
 
reelworld said:
Why?
Did the people who died in Bengal Famine matter less than the people who died in holocaust?
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Churchill was a massive racist who utterly failed in his duty to provide relief to a famine hit people supposedly under his aegis. That should be taught and it should be admitted. That said there is a significant difference between failing to deliver aid due to callous strategising in a time of global scarcity and war to intentionally building an industrial death machine aimed at the extermination of an entire race.
 
Synco said:
Let's not got there. It's basically the "all lives matter" logic turned against the victims of the Holocaust.

The criticism of British indifference towards the victims of British colonialism should (and can) be done out falling into that trap.
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But people defending Churchill themselves in this thread and the Churchill one were the ones saying he’s not as bad as Hitler
 
Sara125 said:
This is a good point. Seems like the genocidal acts of Churchill and King Léopold etc. do not matter or are ‘not as bad’ because their victims were people of colour even though what they did is literally no different to Hitler.
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I think that's true. It's a lot easier for people to identify with white Europeans getting gassed. That's an unfortunate reality.
 
P-Nut said:
Just to point out this does happen here, but in a more obscure way.

I've stood in a car showroom completely blanked by every single member of staff in there sat drinking tea.

I stood there for 5 minutes having a look at the cars etc, and then another 5 stood next to the desk with a brochure in my hand of the car I wanted to enquire about. A white guy then walked in and was immediately greeted asking which car he wanted to enquire about and if there was any way in which they could help.

It's not outright denying you service, but it's making it very clear they don't feel you belong there.
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And then there's the occasions where, when a member of staff at some store does interact with you, they're either very cold or rude. Then you're left wondering if they're racist, or are they like that with everyone, or maybe they're just having a bad day.

On its own it seems like such a minor thing. Oh, some stranger was a little bit off with you, how is that a big deal? But when it happens to you fairly frequently it does get tiring, and make you like unwelcome in your own country.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Go on, I don't know what she meant.
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You want to be oppressed so bad :lol: I literally call out white people on racism and stuff like that all the time explicitly using the word ‘white’. Go through my post history. Why would I only now choose to be subtle by using the phrase ‘people like you’? :confused: Also it isn’t just white people who derail these kind of matters.

edit: @fergies coat my bad this was meant to be a response to your post saying ‘if I said people like you to that lady’
 
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Sara125 said:
You want to be oppressed so bad :lol: I literally call out white people on racism and stuff like that all the time explicitly using the word ‘white’. Go through my post history. Why would I only now choose to be subtle by using the phrase ‘people like you’? :confused: Also it isn’t just white people who derail these kind of matters.
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Don't try and defend yourself here, you've been caught red handed! :lol:
 
Garethw said:
On the whole no, I don’t think it’s a racist country. Maybe 30-40 years ago Yes, but times have changed. The majority are not racist.

There is still a lot of work to do and hopefully this is the start of that.

I live by the principle that a persons actions are what defines them, not the colour of their skin or nationality.

Let’s just all stop being cnuts to each other. If we can do that the world will be a better place.
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If you are actually an 'innocent' who is trying to find the right words and struggling to do so, then you are going to have to take on board a plethora of posts in this thread that break down what racism is.

You're understanding of 'it' seems to be with regard to person-to-person or group-to-group interactions where overt racism is expressed or used against a non-white person - a racial slur or a racially aggravated physical assault, for instance. If that was the 'only' issue to face instead of systemic, institutional or implicit racism, the issue(s) would be much, much smaller than they currently are.

Regardless, this is a tiny fraction of the issue - a person of colour can go through their entire life and not once experience the kind of overt racism you are referring to, but still be crushed by the weight of the racial oppression and glass ceilings placed in their path. The kind of racism you cannot see can often be the most hurtful, destructive and psychologically damaging - as your bolded, the UK most certainly isn't the same land as 30-40 years ago where skinheads went hunting for ethnic minorities to do harm to or where physical assault on non-white people were commonplace - and tellingly unworthy of making the news unless something as heinous as the Stephen Lawrence case - or Union Jack banners draped over any building was a warning to ethnic minorities that they were walking on eggshells. So in the sense you are referring to, you may well feel things are different and racial tolerance is at an all-time high - ostensibly, you'd be correct in that notion; that kind of brazen hostility is nowhere near as common these days.

The other side of the coin is that the UK's institutional and systemic practices of racism, sans meagre bones of tokenism, shows what the reality actually is: where the police force - those who are supposed to protect and serve - was deemed institutionally racist; where POC are routinely stopped and searched or generally harassed for the colour of their skin first and foremost; where non-white people aren't surprised to be tailed around shops the moment they enter the store; where boardrooms are comfortably 90%+ white. To cut a very long story short, the playing field is far from equal - not being born white shouldn't see you face setbacks, obstacles, and be stigmatised or have aspersions cast upon you. It shouldn't even need saying and it shouldn't need Kumbaya rhetoric for the point of contention to be loud and clear.

When the above paragraph becomes a risible notion, it will be fair to say the UK is not racist. We are generations - if ever - from that being the case. The surface level racism you refer to is the least of the concerns - tip of the iceberg, you might say - as in a fair and just society those responsible for such actions would be rightly penalised judiciously and become social pariahs, not slapped on the wrist by the powers that be, or tutted at by mates and told to not do it again.
 
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