Protests following the killing of George Floyd

The Covid19 outbreak also appears to have highlighted discrimination issues against African Americans in US hospitals. Hard to decouple both crises.

In 2020, Covid-19 has begun to divide the country between those ready to explore the structural racism ingrained in America’s public health outcomes, and those who are not.
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Why is coronavirus taking such a deadly toll on black Americans?
 
DoomSlayer said:
Not in the territory of our nation. The history of their oppression again starts with the West, continued with the Ottoman empire, who treated them as the lowest servants to the sultan, below even the non-muslims.

It's a very broad topic with many historical nuances, but the Romani were never slaves when we've had our own freedom and independence.

There is however current racism, which is purposefully created by the ruling elite of the last 30 years, but again, it's very specific to our domestic and internal political and social issues. If I have the time one day, I might make a thread on it, because most people on this forum are clueless when it comes to our part of Europe, since we are literally on the edge and act as a border of the EU.
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I know they were not slaves, but I have been to Bulgaria several times, I also have had some friends from Bulgaria, some of them moved here, and of course were happy for that as life in Bulgarie can be quite hard (no offence). I know people in Bulgaria works hard as hell to make a living. But I was also told a lot of stories around the Romanis, like one guy said they used to take bats with them as youths (that would be early 90's) and go out and beat up "gypsies". I have also seen a documentary about romani kids being sent to special schools for disabilited and mistreated etc. I can not remember it all and I do not pretend to know more than you, but my impression is that all of Europe has mistreated the Romanis, although they are quite good at making their own societys within societies. In my nation as well (Norway), they were treated badly historically.

Please make a thread :) you could do it about Bulgaria in general, I have a lot of good memories from there, I have been to Pleben, Troyan, Varna etc. In Pleben we were warned of the Romanis on street. Never walk alone as a tourist at night here they said. We could be stabbed and robbed. But I think the traffic and the police were more scary haha.. I remember a taxi driver that scared the shit out of me, he drove like a madman and almost hit the front of a trailer taking shortcuts into the wrong side of the road before turns. And the police :D I got the impression you did not want to deal with them at all. ever :D Anyways, a topic/post about Bulgarian society would be cool.

Edit : And so many beautiful women in Bulgaria. And the fish you fry and eat like chips with salt and citrus. Loved it. sorry a bit of offtopic here I will not elaborate more now :)
 
neverdie said:
When can people protest then? There's no vaccine for SARS. Do we wait 20 years?
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It’s a tough one, and it’s not like either argument is wrong. On one hand the protests are completely necessary and justified. On the other it’s extremely likely that there will be a big spike in Covid cases and lots of people will die. I don’t know how to square that circle, but I don’t think people raising the issue should be criticized. It genuinely is life and death stuff.
 
Grinner said:
So if I stood at a protest I'd no longer be complicit? How long would I have to be there for? Can I just turn up and then get back for my tea?
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Probs not for you if you’re traveling from the US to a London protest? Welcome to come round mine for your tea though, tacos tonight
 
Kentonio said:
It’s a tough one, and it’s not like either argument is wrong. On one hand the protests are completely necessary and justified. On the other it’s extremely likely that there will be a big spike in Covid cases and lots of people will die. I don’t know how to square that circle, but I don’t think people raising the issue should be criticized. It genuinely is life and death stuff.
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I agree, it's a nuanced cost/benefit argument. I'm in favour of the protests because I don't see the situation changing for a long time and suspending the right of assembly indefinitely is as dangerous for a society as most other things. If there were a definite time limit or a certainty of vaccination I'd say wait, but there isn't and might never be.
 
fergieisold said:
:lol: Or maybe people have got their own lives to get on with you loon!
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Can you seriously not see that that is part of the problem?

It's a short hop from there to, feck you Jack, I'm alright.

I'm not saying you need to be attending protests, as with everything going on at the moment it is their own choice. But simply challenging racist views around you, and having conversations with people about the issues is part of not being silent.

If everyone took the view of, I've got my own life to live, we'd have never progressed from slavery and all the other dispicable acts that went on in the past. Or do you believe people should only support a movement when it directly affects their life?
 
Nani Nana said:
Check the Guardian article I edited in my post. No specific cases in mind but Covid19's disproportionate toll on African Americans possibly played a subconscious part in leading up to these protests.

Also Questions of Bias in Covid-19 Treatment Add to the Mourning for Black Families
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That article details the underlying socio-economic factors that have led to the disproportionate effect on African-Americans, with only a speculative opinion at the end about hospitals. The former has been covered fairly well including here, but the latter is just a random statement.

If CV19 did contribute to the protests, it was due to it highlighting the disparity in access to healthcare. But there is no proof there of any discrimination at hospitals by medical professionals, which was your original point.
 
P-Nut said:
Can you seriously not see that that is part of the problem?

It's a short hop from there to, feck you Jack, I'm alright.

I'm not saying you need to be attending protests, as with everything going on at the moment it is their own choice. But simply challenging racist views around you, and having conversations with people about the issues is part of not being silent.

If everyone took the view of, I've got my own life to live, we'd have never progressed from slavery and all the other dispicable acts that went on in the past. Or do you believe people should only support a movement when it directly affects their life?
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I think the point was that silence on the current protests = being complicit. That’s totally ridiculous!

another issue is the vast majority of normal people are condemning these protests due to the current pandemic. It’s totally insane what BLM have done in cities like Manchester.
 
P-Nut said:
Can you seriously not see that that is part of the problem?

It's a short hop from there to, feck you Jack, I'm alright.

I'm not saying you need to be attending protests, as with everything going on at the moment it is their own choice. But simply challenging racist views around you, and having conversations with people about the issues is part of not being silent.

If everyone took the view of, I've got my own life to live, we'd have never progressed from slavery and all the other dispicable acts that went on in the past. Or do you believe people should only support a movement when it directly affects their life?
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There is literally some worth protesting worth everyday if you want to. Hunger in the world. War in Syria. Recent annexation of Hong kong. Opression of Tibetans. Donald fecking trump every day. Climate change. Gender bias. You name it. Simply because you don't meet up for protest does not make you complicit.
 
Grinner said:
So if I stood at a protest I'd no longer be complicit? How long would I have to be there for? Can I just turn up and then get back for my tea?
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It's not that difficult.

It's not enough to not be racist. You people in privilege due to the colour of your skin need to be anti-racist.
 
Shamana said:
There is literally some worth protesting worth everyday if you want to. Hunger in the world. War in Syria. Recent annexation of Hong kong. Opression of Tibetans. Donald fecking trump every day. Climate change. Gender bias. You name it. Simply because you don't meet up for protest does not make you complicit.
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Again it's not just protest.

It's not hard to understand.
 
White people hurt the most when being asked to give up the smallest amount of comfort and privilege.
 
PepsiCola said:
It's not about the BAME folk.

And marching isnt the only way to take action against racism and oppression.

Again. Silence is being complicit.
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what a ridiculous perspective.

essentially you are staying that unless you are taking action against any injustice that you are aware of then you are complicit.

without taking this off topic, you are aware of things like human trafficking, peodo rings, people dealing drugs round the corner from where you live, white collar/ blue collar corruption, tax evasion, racism etc etc.

if you are silent about any of these, then you are complicit in the continued exploitation?

Utter drivel mate.
 
Cardboard elk said:
I know they were not slaves, but I have been to Bulgaria several times, I also have had some friends from Bulgaria, some of them moved here, and of course were happy for that as life in Bulgarie can be quite hard (no offence). I know people in Bulgaria works hard as hell to make a living. But I was also told a lot of stories around the Romanis, like one guy said they used to take bats with them as youths (that would be early 90's) and go out and beat up "gypsies". I have also seen a documentary about romani kids being sent to special schools for disabilited and mistreated etc. I can not remember it all and I do not pretend to know more than you, but my impression is that all of Europe has mistreated the Romanis, although they are quite good at making their own societys within societies. In my nation as well (Norway), they were treated badly historically.

Please make a thread :) you could do it about Bulgaria in general, I have a lot of good memories from there, I have been to Pleben, Troyan, Varna etc. In Pleben we were warned of the Romanis on street. Never walk alone as a tourist at night here they said. We could be stabbed and robbed. But I think the traffic and the police were more scary haha.. I remember a taxi driver that scared the shit out of me, he drove like a madman and almost hit the front of a trailer taking shortcuts into the wrong side of the road before turns. And the police :D I got the impression you did not want to deal with them at all. ever :D Anyways, a topic/post about Bulgarian society would be cool.

Edit : And so many beautiful women in Bulgaria. And the fish you fry and eat like chips with salt and citrus. Loved it. sorry a bit of offtopic here I will not elaborate more now :)
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We really went offtopic, as I was just discussing the idea behind white privilege and white guilt, but I really appreciate your comment.

I can't deny the things you are talking about, but as I said, it's a really specific internal issue and almost everything you mentioned is somewhat connected to it. My point is we never had centuries of oppression and exploitation - we were the ones who were enslaved and oppressed for 500 years by the Ottomans, who also treated the Romani as the lowest form of servants, because they had no religion. At least our nation was part of Orthodox Christianity, so we had rights like the other non-muslims.

To put it this way, the ruling elite has been using the situation with the Romani since our country changed the government system after the collapse of the USSR. Their economic status makes them the perfect group of people, that you can buy their vote in election time. And since we have one of the lowest % in terms of participation, their votes are extremely valuable, so all political parties are basically doing it. It's funny, because so much crazy shit happens here almost publicly, yet not much is done about it. The worst part is our political ruling elite is being supported by the Western leaders, as long as they act like nice lap dogs and do as told when necessary or when defending Western interests in the region or inside the country. It's a really fecked up situation and a lot more can be said, so I really might make a thread on it one day.
 
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fergieisold said:
I think the point was that silence on the current protests = being complicit. That’s totally ridiculous!

another issue is the vast majority of normal people are condemning these protests due to the current pandemic. It’s totally insane what BLM have done in cities like Manchester.
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And it is. On these protests you should be talking to people around you about the issues they are protesting about, rather than focusing solely on the problems that come with these protests.

Again I'm not saying go out and protest, rather make a point of ensuring you are having the discussions with people about what is currently wrong with the world, and ways each and every person can make small changes that have a big impact.

Shamana said:
There is literally some worth protesting worth everyday if you want to. Hunger in the world. War in Syria. Recent annexation of Hong kong. Opression of Tibetans. Donald fecking trump every day. Climate change. Gender bias. You name it. Simply because you don't meet up for protest does not make you complicit.
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I agree, and in my own personal group I'd say pretty much every issue you've mentioned has been discussed along with the rights and wrongs as we see them. As I said above, it's not whole about protesting, but educating yourself and others around you on the subjects helps the world to progress.

Take climate change for instance, it probably won't affect me in my lifetime. However, you best believe I'd bring my kids up with a view of protecting the environment. I encourage family members to recycle and try to make small changes to my own life to help tackle the problem.
 
PepsiCola said:
And the mask has slipped

Imagine being this worked up over being asked to be against racism
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Oh come on, you don’t seem to see that while racism is a very real issue you can’t just go around blaming white silence, white fragility or whatever other bullshit racist term you want to come up with for the problems.

what I said is no more racist than what you’ve come up with.
 
PepsiCola said:
And the mask has slipped

Imagine being this worked up over being asked to be against racism
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Can I say that I have always responded in against racism always in my private life, but I do not actually want to take a 6 hour train to Copenhagen amidst a Co-vid epidemic, while I have a severe chronic illness, and participate in a anti-racism protest? Just like I don't care for white people stereotyping black people, I don't like it the to other way around either.
 
P-Nut said:
And it is. On these protests you should be talking to people around you about the issues they are protesting about, rather than focusing solely on the problems that come with these protests.

Again I'm not saying go out and protest, rather make a point of ensuring you are having the discussions with people about what is currently wrong with the world, and ways each and every person can make small changes that have a big impact.



I agree, and in my own personal group I'd say pretty much every issue you've mentioned has been discussed along with the rights and wrongs as we see them. As I said above, it's not whole about protesting, but educating yourself and others around you on the subjects helps the world to progress.

Take climate change for instance, it probably won't affect me in my lifetime. However, you best believe I'd bring my kids up with a view of protecting the environment. I encourage family members to recycle and try to make small changes to my own life to help tackle the problem.
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I have done both personally. I’ve both talked to my friends about issues of racism and hammered the protestors for their actions. You can do both.
 
fergieisold said:
I have done both personally. I’ve both talked to my friends about issues of racism and hammered the protestors for their actions. You can do both.
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But you're hammering people for putting their own lives at risk for a cause they believe in. Unless you meant the rioters/looters which I can understand (although don't agree with)
 
fergieisold said:
I have done both personally. I’ve both talked to my friends about issues of racism and hammered the protestors for their actions. You can do both.
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Yeah? Did you tell your friends how black people really love to moan about white people? Kudos to you, mate.
 
P-Nut said:
But you're hammering people for putting their own lives at risk for a cause they believe in. Unless you meant the rioters/looters which I can understand (although don't agree with)
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They are


van der star said:
Yeah? Did you tell your friends how black people really love to moan about white people? Kudos to you, mate.
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it was a tongue in cheek reply to his racist posts about white people.
 
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