[sunama]

I see 0-3 or worse. Can anyone out there properly rationalise why I might be wrong?

I pulled this up from the match day thread.
I guess Westmeath was right.

If you feel that way then why don't you go and put a bet on it as you will get very good odds?

I think Bondi77 did not expect us to lose 3-0.

Regarding the game, I have seen no change in the way we are playing and the results we are getting.
We are now 12th in the table, with Bournemouth who are just below us, due to play on Monday.
Anybody who thinks that ETH is going to take us to the promised land is completely deluded and should be sectioned.

ETH's tactics and methodology may work in the Dutch league but do not work in the EPL.
He has been one of the highest spending managers on the planet and the net result last season was 8th place.
It's depressing to see that our club keeps dropping.

Last year we reached a stage where we finished 8th (the lowest placing since the EPL began) and he kept his job.
We are now in 12th place after 6 matches. This must be another negative record - someone might be able to confirm.

I believe that INEOS are just as incompetent as The Glazers (they are proving it, right now) and do not have a Plan B, which involves replacing the manager to rescue this and next season.
To find a credible replacement in the Summer would've been tough, but that's what Senior Management are there for - to do those difficult tasks.
To find a candidate mid-season will be near impossible. And that's why I say INEOS are incompetent. They should've pulled the trigger in the Summer when it would've been easier to find a replacement. They didn't. Now they are in big trouble - they can't fire him because there are no good replacements and we'll likely finish in around 8th place again with ETH in charge.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

The players are extremely overrated by most fans. No manager in the world can turn this lot into a top 4 team.

I agree that many are overrated and if you dare suggest it, you're jumped on by the top reds.

There are a few with potential but it's very 50-50 whether they'll make it at the top level.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The way Spurs played in the first half was exactly how they've played their other away games this season. Ange doesn't change, which grants any opposing manager the head start of knowing what they'll be playing against. For us to come out and still be so over-run and bamboozled just shows how tactically inept Ten Hag is.

Correct. He had no plan to stop them or take advantage of their weaknesses.

 

[sunama]

I don't think Ten Hag is up to the job, but to throw him just the slightest sliver of defence, a lot of the players were so bad today that you couldn't blame the manager for the mistakes they made.

My friend, nobody is asking for ETH to be sacked over a single match. That would be asenine.
We are suggesting he be sacked for spending so much money and finishing up in 8th place last season.
Furthermore, his style of play is terrible and he has shown no improvement in this 3rd season. His first season was his best and it's been downhill since then.

In any case, the incompetence of INEOS is now there for everybody to see. Replacing him now/tomorrow would be a bad move because there are no good alternatives in mid-season. A replacement manager should've been brought in last May, immediately after the FA Cup win. By then ETH had already demonstrated that he wasn't good enough (winning an FA Cup and 8th place is failure), but INEOS were not expecting ETH to continue being bad at his job. An armchair pundit like me knew that 8th place was ETH's level. If I knew this, how on Earth did INEOS not realise this?

 

[Josep Dowling]

The players are extremely overrated by most fans. No manager in the world can turn this lot into a top 4 team.

I don’t think that necessarily true. We’re definitely missing a goal scorer and the club just refuses to spend the money on a top striker. Given what we spent for Hojlund and Zirkzee would could have had £100m to actually get the world class striker we needed. Heck even Toney was available for £40m.

Also think LB is a major issue, akin to England in the summer. It was obvious to sign a LB with two players who can’t stay fit in that position. But alas only United would think signing 2 CBs and a RB would resolve our defensive issues.

Plus a host of midfielders who can control and pass the ball. Mainoo can do it but his positioning is questionable at times. But then our entire midfield is the same so maybe that’s coming from the manager.

 

[BulgarianDevil91]

You literally contradict yourself in one sentence

I do not. I'm saying there's contact, but not enough for a red as your'e implying. Yellow - sure. Red - moronic.

 

[NewGlory]

I still cannot get over the first goal

1. Rashford loses the ball AND DOES NOT EVEN CONSIDER tracking back to win it back. Garnacho next to him also decided to lounge up top and observe what happens like a spectator
2. Bruno does not try to even press on sprinting Van de Ven. Maybe Bruno is not fast enough to have caught him, but at least he could have tried and given him some worry, rather than creating half a field worth of space to jog through
3. Mainoo actually slows down and makes zero effort to catch up to Johnson, way before Johnson got the ball
4. Dalot loses Johnson as well, so by the time Van de Ven fires, Johnson is wide open

I mean... you can have one player not give a shit, two players not give a shit, but how can you have these many players shit the bed is something to seriously question

 

[wolvored]

I read they wanted Ashworth in to mke the decision, bur because they couldnt get him in in time they left it how it was and made th plus one year as a definite for TH

 

[Fitchett]

That was absolutely shocking, particularly the first half. The sending off was a criminal abdication of intervention by the VAR, Peter Bankes, but had no bearing on the match result. In fact the ten men played better than the eleven did. Probably due to the missing man being unable to give the ball away repeatedly! Only Onana, with a few good saves, came out of the match with any credit.

That has to be the end for EtH now, along with a few players, looking at Rashford in particular.

As the man with the loud hailer at Heaton Park boating lake used to say, "Come in (number) Ten, your time is up".

 

[BorisManUtd]

Thankfully didn't watch the 1st half as it seems it was really awful. Also that red card for Bruno is a joke imo but when it rains it pours (though some may be right that we could play better without him over next few league games). Watched 2nd half until 3rd goal and it was actually not bad after Spurs went 2-0 up as we created few good chances and could've had a penalty (that was more of a penalty than that red card was red).

That's 7 points out of 18 possible with -3 goal difference. Basically more of what we saw last season (with Brighton and Palace away at least looking better, though those 2 sides haven't started the season well). Next league game is at Villa and I think it could be another defeat coming as we won there last season though it was not that deserved win really.

Lost plenty of games last season conceding 3 goals. This is 2nd 3-0 loss at home this season and it's not even October! Unless things change we're nowhere near top 4 fight and another 8th place finish would be realistic outcome.

 

[George The Best]

8

That was absolutely shocking, particularly the first half. The sending off was a criminal abdication of intervention by the VAR, Peter Bankes, but had no bearing on the match result. In fact the ten men played better than the eleven did. Probably due to the missing man being unable to give the ball away repeatedly! Only Onana, with a few good saves, came out of the match with any credit.

That has to be the end for EtH now, along with a few players, looking at Rashford in particular.

As the man with the loud hailer at Heaton Park boating lake used to say, "Come in (number) Ten, your time is up".

unfortunately nobody is buying Rashford on his wages.

 

[Walrus]

The way Spurs played in the first half was exactly how they've played their other away games this season. Ange doesn't change, which grants any opposing manager the head start of knowing what they'll be playing against. For us to come out and still be so over-run and bamboozled just shows how tactically inept Ten Hag is.

And this is the thing - I don’t think Spurs are even that hard to play against. They run a borderline suicidal high press and high line. All you need is some pace up front, someone capable of playing some decent long balls in behind, or maybe a target man to win the first balls and knock ons.

Instead we are trying to beat the press every time when we clearly weren’t able to.

Now I do prefer a more controlled, possession based system, but we were an absolute million miles away from that today. I think it was at the end of the first half that I remember us having our first actual passage of play and possession around their box.

The whole thing was just an utter shambles at a tactical level. And that’s before you take into account the mistakes, brainfarts and sloppy passing (which to an extent should have been drilled out of them anyway, so also a coaching issue).

 

[George The Best]

Interesting that the Sky pundits were unanimous in saying that the players themselves need to hold a crisis meeting without any of the staff present. They’ve all been through similar circumstances, so I wonder what they think this might achieve?

 

[Gandalf67]

Maybe Ten Hag does need to go ... not sure his system is working... but how many times can the players keep downing tools and the manager gets flirted...rinse/repeat.. this job will soon be in demand second only to the new Chairman of Asda vacancy ... !!

 

[glazed]

Eh?

He said that in the Sky post match interview.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I do not. I'm saying there's contact, but not enough for a red as your'e implying. Yellow - sure. Red - moronic.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.
Insulting people adds nothing and gives others an indication of how low your IQ is.
Another on ignore

 

[ArmaDino]

The fact that we literally looked like relegation fodder at home against a rival who wasn't exactly been firing on all cylinders should be sack worthy. Even before Bruno's red, we looked like Soton or Wolves. Absolute horrible organization.

I also noticed just how much better drilled Spurs are. They always play triangles around our press and there is always a player available for a pass. Meanwhile our team always looks like they have to hoof it around the half way mark. It's nut and it has everything to do wit ETH.

The fact that he still has a job right is an absolute contradiction to INEOS' speeches about us being a top team again. What are they waiting for? The international break.

Say he gets a draw and a win before that. Will they have the balls to sack a manager who is just coming off a win? Why make things more difficult? Just pull the trigger and let him go and start planning for a new manager.

 

[slyadams]

I’ve just come to say seeing Maddison’s reaction to having and ankle rub against his shin pad is an absolute disgrace. That’s no different to diving for a penalty.

 

[cj_sparky]

I'll put as much effort in as the players and just say that it was...GRIM!

 

[Jock Steins Boots]

I think what really hits home for me, is that on a regular basis now, I still don't see any improvement in the team, over the last 3 seasons.
I'm not talking about signings, I'm talking about tactics, game plans, certain style, there's none of it. I honestly can't say what the style of Uniteds play is meant to be.

It hasn't moved on at all, there's no solid belief in this side, that it's improving or going somewhere. Every match feels like a 'let's hope this is the one where it clicks' but it never does.

I just don't have the belief anymore that ETH can turn this around. He's out of ideas.

 

[RedFanaticTattooist]

I did not expect a win today. But expected at least a better performance. Ten Hag has to go, together with Rashford, Malacia, Bruno, Casemiro, Maguire, Eriksen, Antony, and Zirkzee. But most importantly Rashford and Bruno. Rash is just a mental mess, way too inconsistent to be a classy player, and the portuguese is just too tired. After years of trying he has lost his motivation probably. Zirkzee couldn't hit the ocean from a boat. And yes, Mount seems to be way too injury prone, maybe he should go too. It's been a third year under ten Hag, lots of players arrived this summer and we are worst than ever. -3 GD... Tells a lot.

 

[croadyman]

Presume Postecoglou was wearing his funeral coat today as put the nails in Erik's coffin

 

[Cerberus]

I read they wanted Ashworth in to mke the decision, bur because they couldnt get him in in time they left it how it was and made th plus one year as a definite for TH

Where was that reported?

 

[oz insomniac]

The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. One phrase shows how basically incompetent the decision was to retain a manager who had no defined pattern of play and a reluctance to drop players so out of form they were a negative to being on the field.

iNEOS have to react and replace the manager, could we see our peers in the EPL accept these performances, they would have jettisoned the manager and reset the place.

 

[cpresc]

I still cannot get over the first goal

1. Rashford loses the ball AND DOES NOT EVEN CONSIDER tracking back to win it back. Garnacho next to him also decided to lounge up top and observe what happens like a spectator
2. Bruno does not try to even press on sprinting Van de Ven. Maybe Bruno is not fast enough to have caught him, but at least he could have tried and given him some worry, rather than creating half a field worth of space to jog through
3. Mainoo actually slows down and makes zero effort to catch up to Johnson, way before Johnson got the ball
4. Dalot loses Johnson as well, so by the time Van de Ven fires, Johnson is wide open

I mean... you can have one player not give a shit, two players not give a shit, but how can you have these many players shit the bed is something to seriously question

I think you missed Ugarte too.. he was running at Van de Ven and could have slid in (which is what we signed him for) and didn't.. just backed off.

 

[justboy68]

As Radiohead say, no surprises here. Absolutely shambolic that this manager was kept on in the summer. No doubt helped by pressure from a fanbase caught in some totally incorrect, twisted game of caring more about looking like the ‘best fan’ rather than actually using their eyes and their brain and wanting what is objectively best for the club.

Have to laugh at people going on about our improvement this season when you see our fecking fixture list.

 

[sparx99]

Yes, but even then we only really looked decent against shit teams. Spurs were never going to give us the same amount of time on the ball that we had against Southampton, Barnsley and Palace, so this and the next few matches were always going to be the test.

Well except that Spurs do tend to give away chances. The fact that we lacked any energy or tempo at all is damning. Spurs might have pressed us better than those teams but we should still be trying to play football.

I don’t want to pick on Ugarte because he’s new and I think he’s come into a bad situation but we looked considerably better with the Mainoo/Eriksen midfield. We know Eriksen couldn’t play every week and he made a bad mistake mid-week but whether it was Casemiro or Ugarte playing that ball winner role it leaves too much space.

 

[RedDevil@84]

No doubt helped by pressure from a fanbase caught in some totally incorrect, twisted game of caring more about looking like the ‘best fan’ rather than actually using their eyes and their brain and wanting what is objectively best for the club.

Absolute nonsensical take. The fans opinion on caf, reddit and other social media did nothing. United don't read the caf and change their opinions. You are extrapolating your irritation at some of the posters way too much.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

How in God's name was that a red card

 

[RedDevil@84]

How in God's name was that a red card

Because VAR are buddies with ref, especially when it comes to us.

 

[justboy68]

Absolute nonsensical take. The fans opinion on caf, reddit and other social media did nothing. United don't read the caf and change their opinions. You are extrapolating your irritation at some of the posters way too much.

Mainstream media too and the likes of Neville who pretty much epitomises said cluelessness. It was everywhere after the cup final. Of course it shouldn’t have influenced things but with new owners looking to make a good impression it very much looks like they bottled it. It’s not far fetched at all. Maybe what will happen now is the same people will pretend it had no impact to make themselves feel better.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Mainstream media too and the likes of Neville who pretty much epitomises said cluelessness. It was everywhere after the cup final. Of course it shouldn’t have influenced things but with new owners looking to make a good impression it very much looks like they bottled it. It’s not far fetched at all. Maybe what will happen now is the same people will pretend it had no impact to make themselves feel better.

I think ETH survived largely because there were so many changes at the top and this was a new club admin coming in, and there were no standout managers available out there, they genuinely thought they could give the man who won two trophies. a bit more time to work with new structure.
They were not really expecting things to go downhill this fast.

 

[sparx99]

As Radiohead say, no surprises here. Absolutely shambolic that this manager was kept on in the summer. No doubt helped by pressure from a fanbase caught in some totally incorrect, twisted game of caring more about looking like the ‘best fan’ rather than actually using their eyes and their brain and wanting what is objectively best for the club.

Have to laugh at people going on about our improvement this season when you see our fecking fixture list.

What’s strange to me is that there were some signs of improvement. Yes, the recent fixture list was kinder but the two games this week it all just disappeared. We stopped doing the things that have at least been encouraging.

I know it’s clutching at straws but from the early games including against good teams in City and Brighton we produced chances from quick interplay around the box. We seemed to be playing out better at times.

It does certainly make you wonder. There were the confusing remarks from ex-players when Rashford was ‘rotated’. Then after a vibrant first half where we should’ve scored 3 we’ve been appalling for 2.5 games. Why?

Then Ole randomly talking about if he’d take the job as an interim again. Firstly that shouldn’t even be considered even if he was up for it. Secondly, is there some manoeuvring going on from Rashford etc who like Ole as coach?

 

[mardika]

I don’t really care if they are signed by x, y or z or academy - it seems to have been an issue under all managers where we enter this period where the players seem to simply not care. The lack of a reaction to the first Spurs sums it up, it’s like they don’t mind.

I don’t get why it always seems to happen, it’s not like we’ve had untested managers before bar Ole.

Players losing trust in their manager happened all the time at every other club. Manchester United are anomaly in the world football where its directors and supporters delusionally hoped theyd find the next Alex Ferguson hence the tendency to keep their managers for far longer than they should.

 

[Sky1981]

Who cares. 2 Cup is all that matters

What does Arsenal won?

So they say last season when asked

 

[tentan]

Awful once more

 

[VeryPrecious89]

Absolute nonsensical take. The fans opinion on caf, reddit and other social media did nothing. United don't read the caf and change their opinions. You are extrapolating your irritation at some of the posters way too much.

You don’t know much about corporate attitudes to social media if that’s what you believe.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Secondly, is there some manoeuvring going on from Rashford etc who like Ole as coach?

That's some leap right there.
Bloody hell.

 

[TheLord]

We finally seem to have run out of all "silly" United fans who want to give ETH some more time. One year too late, but nonetheless

Every single managerial sacking post-SAF has been painfully slow.

 

[VeryPrecious89]

It really feels like we have rinse repeated the latter days of LVG, Mou and Ole again. There’s an acceptance the manager should go but then how can the players get away with what they have put on the pitch. Spurs didn’t play that well, there’s not a huge amount of complexity to what they do, we just were categorically not up for the off the ball work required.

Danny Murphy explained it. He said when you’ve got a lack of organisation and players unsure of their roles, it can look like they’re not making as much effort. The number of professional players going out with the intention of not giving their all must be minimal. Why would they today? What’s changed from a week ago, or two weeks ago when we were beating Barnsley and Southampton?