[Schmeichels pinky]

The worst part for me is the constant changes for the worse. Now, we’ve played a few good games with Eriksen as a focal point, though Twente wasn’t good, but then ETH leaves him on the bench in a match where he knows we’ll need his ball distribution. We basically invited the pressure instead of battling them for possession and Eriksen is the only player we have atm who can make a team tick. He constantly makes himself available and evidently has a strong Ajax-link with Martinez and de Liegt who trust him.

I usually don’t pretend to be more tactically adept than the manager but this is so goddamn obvious.

 

[nickm]

One of the worst I've seen from Utd in a very long time. No heart, no desire and no care.

It's clear the manager has lost the players and the players don't care as long as their massive weekly wage appears in their accounts.

I don't believe that, I think they do care, but the manager has lost them. Bad managers make good players into bad teams.

 

[antsmithmk]

I don't believe that, I think they do care, but the manager has lost them. Bad managers make good players into bad teams.

We seem to turn good players into bad. How many players improve after joining the club? How many improve after leaving?!

 

[Sandikan]

We seem to turn good players into bad. How many players improve after joining the club? How many improve after leaving?!

Not sure many do improve upon leaving. Just that people don't scrutinise them so much and see say Welbeck scoring 4 goals a season as some sort of reason we shouldn't have sold him.

But it's exceptionally worrying that players can turn up here, look great for a few months, then drop off an absolute cliff. Casemiro, Martinez, many others going back years.

 

[Born2Lose]

The highest XG that Spurs have ever achieved in the PL against ANY club since records began.

Analysis: How Spurs outplayed Man Utd at Old Trafford

Kulusevski and Maddison lead scintillating Spurs first half​

Spurs raced out of the blocks and tore Man Utd to shreds. By the end of the match they had accrued an Expected Goals (xG) of 4.67, the most Spurs have ever had in a Premier League match on record.

A lot of this was down to their furious hard-pressing, which in the first half alone led to Spurs winning possession seven times in the final third. Man Utd just couldn’t cope with the pressure, misplacing passes and ensuring Spurs had them pinned back.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

The highest XG that Spurs have ever achieved in the PL against ANY club since records began.

Analysis: How Spurs outplayed Man Utd at Old Trafford

That is so worrying. And why, oh why leave our best passer on the bench?

 

[Desert Eagle]

The highest XG that Spurs have ever achieved in the PL against ANY club since records began.

Analysis: How Spurs outplayed Man Utd at Old Trafford

We have Onana and Werner to thank for the score being only 3-0

 

[NewGlory]

So you are saying that contact between the ankle and the knee is not a high tackle, OK noted

It is not a red card if Bruno slipped on a wet surface and had no bad intention

And it's not me saying, Maddison himself told Bruno as Bruno was walking off the field, and I quote "it was a foul buy it was never red".

I guess you know better than the guy Bruno supposedly tackled. Holier than Pope

 

[Desert Eagle]

It is not a red card if Bruno slipped on a wet surface and had no bad intention

And it's not me saying, Maddison himself told Bruno as Bruno was walking off the field, and I quote "it was a foul buy it was never red".

I guess you know better than the guy Bruno supposedly tackled. Holier than Pope

So he slipped and decided to stick his leg out while not in control of his body with good intentions?

 

[Crimson King]

So you are saying that contact between the ankle and the knee is not a high tackle, OK noted

High tackle doesn't automatically equal a red card

 

[ArjenIsM3]

That is so worrying. And why, oh why leave our best passer on the bench?

Who?

 

[Northstand]

One of the worst I've seen from Utd in a very long time. No heart, no desire and no care.

It's clear the manager has lost the players and the players don't care as long as their massive weekly wage appears in their accounts.

One thing I am surprised about, no word about appealing Bruno red card. Any other club would be making noise and stating how they intend to appeal as soon as the game was over, but nothing from us. No other team would have sat back and accepted that decission.

Completely agree here, and especially your last paragraph. Little wonder the narrative persists that United get favourable decisions when the manager and the club meekly accept the regular shockers that come our way.

 

[NewGlory]

So he slipped and decided to stick his leg out while not in control of his body with good intentions?

That sentence makes no sense, when you slip and have no control, you don't decide to stick anything out, it's against the definition of being "not in control"

 

[Desert Eagle]

That sentence makes no sense, when you slip and have no control, you don't decide to stick anything out, it's against the definition of being "not in control"

So you actually think the leg sticking out and making contact was an accident?

 

[BootsyCollins]

Saw the match now, and got damn we suck.
Also Dejan Kulusevski is one hell of a player when on form.

 

[Sea-Cow]

You can quibble Onana if you don’t rate him, I do.

Malacia is a good backup left back and he’s good both ways. (Though none of the full back comments speaks to the modern trend for full backs coming inside).

We sure has hell have enough centre backs. Martinez, De Ligt and hopefully Yoro are a solid 3. The others are capable deputies imo. I’d take another young defender with potential and bin off Lindelof, Evans and Maguire.

With the forwards, Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Hojland, would all get decent fees. Certainly enough to remedy the midfield balance. Antony is the huge outlier. If the target truly is 2027-2028, I’d be selling Bruno and Rashford. They’ll be too old then, so why keep them? Take the pain now and reset the squad.

I will certainly quibble about Onana, but you're right, its just opinions. And he's probably not going anywhere so I'm yelling at clouds on this one.

But we have no idea about Malacia and what he can offer. I struggle to remember his performances for us as they weren't that numerous, and they were a very long time ago. That amount of time with no football at all is a concern, to put it mildly.

And the CBs are similarly good on paper, but I have my doubts starting to creep in.

I loved Lisandro at first but the past few weeks he has looked seriously low IQ out there. I won't use the word I want to use here because I might get banned, but he has looked like someone trying to get sent off at times or trying to make people think he's tough, instead of playing good football.

De Ligt, its still very early with us so he probably deserves some time, but I worry now that he doesn't have the quickness necessary, in both speed of foot or speed of thought, more importantly. Yesterday immediately after going down 1-0, both he and Ugarte were completely bamboozled by a 1-2 from Spurs and it cut right through us for a James Maddison 1 on 1. Its worrying, but maybe he will improve with more games.

Yoro is a complete unknown, similar to Malacia. Who knows if he can adapt to this league, living abroad, new language, etc etc. Who knows if he can recover from his injury.

 

[NewGlory]

So you actually think the leg sticking out and making contact was an accident?

Sounds like we will continue to have different opinions about this and it is totally fine. I think out of control means that he was not in control of what he was doing, you seem to think that even when he slipped he made the last ditch effort to also tackle Maddison. Nobody can be sure if it was one or the other, possibly not even Bruno, because some things are instinctive.

 

[Waynne]

Actually it goes back further than Rashford, to Bruno. He started that with some shit passing that was never going to Rashford or Garnacho.

Agree with everything else though.

Interesting to see it all play out like this. Surely its then just a combination of some players not arsed to bust a gut and the managers tactics or is it the managers tactics just leaving the players deflated and them not willing to give it their all?

 

[DJ_21]

These and Liverpool have scored more goals at OT than us. Embarrassing

 

[Jock Steins Boots]

Interesting to see it all play out like this. Surely its then just a combination of some players not arsed to bust a gut and the managers tactics or is it the managers tactics just leaving the players deflated and them not willing to give it their all?

I made a point in another thread about tactics. I actually think it's a case of all the points you make.
Some players can't be arsed, some players are making passes believing those players will make the effort and in between all that you have a group of players all misinterpreting ETH tactics (whatever they are).
I, as much as anyone else, have questioned ETHs tactics, but there have been a few times, like the first goal on Sunday, where he was shaking his head in disbelief and gesturing to RVN as if to say "what the feck are they doing??..why aren't they following what we've gone over?" He looked as bewildered as the fans at times.
So I don't know if its that half the players are too dumb to understand or he's simply not making it obvious enough as to what he wants. But somethings short circuiting, that's for sure.

 

[gerdm07]

Actually it goes back further than Rashford, to Bruno. He started that with some shit passing that was never going to Rashford or Garnacho.

Agree with everything else though.

Yep, Bruno had space to dribble and he tries a pass that at best was 50/50 to Garnacho to succeed. Even if it does get through to Garnacho it's not like he had a clear path to goal. Just a typical poor decision and execution by Bruno.

 

[GueRed]

Onana - Wouldve been six nil if it wasnt for his saves
Martinez - Poor again
de Ligt - His worst game thus far
Ugarte - Looked lightweight
Bruno - Never a red for me
Garnacho - Kept running
Zirkzee - Some sloppy passing. Should've scored.

 

[steffyr2]

I did not expect a win today. But expected at least a better performance. Ten Hag has to go, together with Rashford, Malacia, Bruno, Casemiro, Maguire, Eriksen, Antony, and Zirkzee. But most importantly Rashford and Bruno. Rash is just a mental mess, way too inconsistent to be a classy player, and the portuguese is just too tired. After years of trying he has lost his motivation probably. Zirkzee couldn't hit the ocean from a boat. And yes, Mount seems to be way too injury prone, maybe he should go too. It's been a third year under ten Hag, lots of players arrived this summer and we are worst than ever. -3 GD... Tells a lot.

If the plan is to buy an entire new team, perhaps we just give ETH $3B or so. Maybe he'll get it right this time.

 

[lex talionis]

Onana - Wouldve been six nil if it wasnt for his saves
Martinez - Poor again
de Ligt - His worst game thus far
Ugarte - Looked lightweight
Bruno - Never a red for me
Garnacho - Kept running
Zirkzee - Some sloppy passing. Should've scored.

Bruno's boot was ridiculously high and he was nowhere near making a play on the ball. True, there was no chance of a broken leg but why in your opinion was that not a straight red card offense?

 

[Posh Red]

Bruno's boot was ridiculously high and he was nowhere near making a play on the ball. True, there was no chance of a broken leg but why in your opinion was that not a straight red card offense?

Can you remember the last time United had a red rescinded? I think that says it all.

 

[lex talionis]

Can you remember the last time United had a red rescinded? I think that says it all.

That doesn't really answer the question. I'm generally sympathetic to players in close calls so I would have given a yellow card, but the boot went well above the ankle and the ball was nowhere in the frame.

What exactly was Bruno trying to do? He swung his leg up after he slipped, not before. There was no ball to be won.

 

[Noc-Z]

Bruno's boot was ridiculously high and he was nowhere near making a play on the ball. True, there was no chance of a broken leg but why in your opinion was that not a straight red card offense?

Well it appears his opinion is shared by a panel who just upheld the clubs wrongful dismissal claim!

 

[sunama]

But it's exceptionally worrying that players can turn up here, look great for a few months, then drop off an absolute cliff. Casemiro, Martinez, many others going back years.

I remember when Darmian arrived from Italy. He was great. He fell off a cliff.
Remember Baily. He started exceptionally well, but he fell off a cliff.
Remember Rojo. He was actually okay when he arrived - turned to junk.
How about Donny Van Der Baek. Ball on dor shortlisted. We buy him and he turns to junk immediately.
The player who held out the most was Bruno F. He was great for 18 months, but sadly he too, has now turned to junk.
I could go on, but you get the point.

The question has to be asked why is this happening and a solution needs to be sought. You can't keep replacing key players every 2 years and expect to do well.

Ralf R did have a plan in place which would have us buy players a few years before their big contract. This would ensure that they are hungry before they join and remain hungry as they chase that big contract. Sadly, we did not implement Ralf's ideas and continued down the path of attempting to buy our way out of trouble.

And don't get me started on the poor negotiation skills of our transfer team. They should all be fired for being incompetent. How much did we pay for Antony?

 

[Carolina Red]

But it's exceptionally worrying that players can turn up here, look great for a few months, then drop off an absolute cliff.

The question has to be asked why is this happening and a solution needs to be sought

Im with you guys. I’ve noticed this for years now and I don’t understand it.

 

[Super Hans]

Anybody else a bit disappointed to learn that the red card was rescinded?

 

[nmm85]

Maybe a little naive but read in so many places how the sending off didn't make a difference. Who's to say we wouldn't have come out differently after a half time bollocking and a sub. Yes we were absolutely awful that first half but it's not uncommon to perform better in the second half and at 1-0 and 11v11 its still anyones game.

Not making excuses just never heard so many across the board downplaying a (incorrect) sending off.

 

[Waynne]

I made a point in another thread about tactics. I actually think it's a case of all the points you make.
Some players can't be arsed, some players are making passes believing those players will make the effort and in between all that you have a group of players all misinterpreting ETH tactics (whatever they are).
I, as much as anyone else, have questioned ETHs tactics, but there have been a few times, like the first goal on Sunday, where he was shaking his head in disbelief and gesturing to RVN as if to say "what the feck are they doing??..why aren't they following what we've gone over?" He looked as bewildered as the fans at times.
So I don't know if its that half the players are too dumb to understand or he's simply not making it obvious enough as to what he wants. But somethings short circuiting, that's for sure.

Starting to get the same vibe.
We played so well against Palace. Probably our best spell with the current setup and then against Spurs we looked like Tranmere Rovers. I don't get it.

 

[Captmfla]

The referee ought to be punished in some ways for his error!

 

[Jock Steins Boots]

Im with you guys. I’ve noticed this for years now and I don’t understand it.

Yes, this has been going on for ages. A good example of this is the way Rashford has played over the seasons. One minute he's looking world class, the next he's playing as if its over 70's Walking Football.

I know fitness comes and goes, as does form, but how can he look class for a season then nothing? And the same goes for a lot of the players, they'll put together 4 or 5 games and make it look like they're finally going somewhere, then out of nowhere, suddenly turn into a League 2 side. Its bewildering at times.

The only thing I can point to, is that over the last 3 seasons, ETH has consistently mucked about with team selection. He'll change the first 11 too much in my opinion. How many times have we seen a good display by the first 11, only for him to completely rip it up for the next match 7 days later? he does it all the time. Its no wonder the players don't know how to operate half the time. Look at the last few games, Erikson plays a blinder in 2 games then gets subbed??

It's no wonder the players don't know what they're doing half the time.

 

[golden_blunder]

The worst part for me is the constant changes for the worse. Now, we’ve played a few good games with Eriksen as a focal point, though Twente wasn’t good, but then ETH leaves him on the bench in a match where he knows we’ll need his ball distribution. We basically invited the pressure instead of battling them for possession and Eriksen is the only player we have atm who can make a team tick. He constantly makes himself available and evidently has a strong Ajax-link with Martinez and de Liegt who trust him.

I usually don’t pretend to be more tactically adept than the manager but this is so goddamn obvious.

Evidently he doesn’t

He played for Ajax 2008 - 2010 before joining Spurs

Ten Hag managed Ajax 2017-2022

DeLigt broke through around 2016 - 2019

Licha Martinez was at Ajax 2019 - 2022

However, Eriksen did train with Ajax for a short period in 2021 after being discarded by Inter and shortly before joining Brentford.

So there is a tenuous link to knowing ETH systems from training and perhaps briefly interacting with Martinez

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Evidently he doesn’t

He played for Ajax 2008 - 2010 before joining Spurs

Ten Hag managed Ajax 2017-2022

DeLigt broke through around 2016 - 2019

Licha Martinez was at Ajax 2019 - 2022

However, Eriksen did train with Ajax for a short period in 2021 after being discarded by Inter and shortly before joining Brentford.

So there is a tenuous link to knowing ETH systems from training and perhaps briefly interacting with Martinez

Ok, what do you think I meant? I’ll give you another chance to decipher the hidden meaning.

 

[golden_blunder]

Ok, what do you think I meant? I’ll give you another chance to decipher the hidden meaning.

The way i read your post is that they trust each other from having been at Ajax.

If I have missed something that takes it in a different direction then i apologize.

No need to get sassy though

 

[Harry190]

Did the red card get annulled?

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

The way i read your post is that they trust each other from having been at Ajax.

If I have missed something that takes it in a different direction then i apologize.

No need to get sassy though

Sorry, just thought your post seemed a bit condescending. I meant that they are all schooled at Ajax, but maybe “strong link” is a little much

 

[golden_blunder]

Sorry, just thought your post seemed a bit condescending. I meant that they are all schooled at Ajax, but maybe “strong link” is a little much

No worries and fair enough