[tjb]

That result was hard to take.

But, and I know not many on here share this opinion, I feel like I can see something.

There’s an idea at least. We’re better at getting the ball forward. Final third is still poor but improving.

We were the better team.

You just can’t legislate for stupid errors like that. Martinez * 2 and Onana * 2. Plus Bruno for the Gibbs White goal as well.

I think with time, we'll be a very good team that is difficult to break. I believe Yoro coming into the team and Mazraoui not being involved, might have disrupted the defence a little bit. Maz has ctributed a lot to our ball progression, so not having him may have initially slowed us down in moving the ball.

Everyone is unhappy with the whole team today, but our major issue were again the 2 no.10 positions and Dalot. The no.10 roles aren't supporting the midfield enough in possession and their offering very little creatively when Bruno's not on the ball. Outside of a counter, we have 2 ways of progressing the ball to Hojlund. Either through creative combinations/passes from the no.10's or through wing play/combinations from the flanks primarily from the wing backs. Well with Garnacho/Rashford/Mount/Antony, we have players who provide very little presence or creative support in the no.10 position. They just aren't skilled enough. In Malacia/Dalot, we're getting very little production from the left flank. As a result, we're exclusively relying on creativity coming from either Bruno or Amad. In situation when Bruno either has to drop deep or play as an 8, that leaves us with Amad on his own.

For me, more than any blame Onana or Martinez recieves, this is our gap.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Managers don't set transfer fees or how much money any player should get in weekly wages.

Glazers and those they put in charge of transfers and players contracts has United in the debt they are in.

Jim and Co have yet to convince, charging loyal supporters including OAPS 66 sterling for remaining home games isn't the way to address things.

They are only going that to be fair because of the shit the Glazer's left behind with finances.

 

[RedRocket9908]

What are you talking about? Hojlund had only 2 shots this game and scored from one of them. I do think that he could have done better with making different runs than he did but he didn't waste chances.

There were a few times in the first half where good balls were put in to his area where either he wasnt there (including one where Bruno was visibly unhappy with him) or he he was there but messed it up.

 

[tjb]

not sure what to make of that game.

Structurally we were good I thought and we played some decent stuff in first half. Didn't defend great for that early goal but we responded well.

As usual final ball/shot letting us down.

The second half started disastrously. Still can't get my head around the errors in judgement from Onana and Martinez. They are uncharacteristic so we can forgive that.

Like the first half we just lacked quality to create and score again.

I seem to come away each game feeling Ugarte, Diallo and Mazroui are our main consistent performers. Thought Hojlund did ok and Mainoo decent as second half progressed after a very quiet first hour.

I agree on Mainoo. Funny enough, I would try him in one of the no.10 positions, as he can drive the ball forward, is good with his feet and seems to have a decent shot on him. Our attack ( from 3 + Dalot) aren't great. This move could make us far more dangerous.

In regard to signings, my takeaway is that we need both a lwb and a DM. People exaggerate the need for a striker. I don't think we create enough for that to be seen as a major problem.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I think the point is that the structure in place was (hopefully not now) awful. ETH would have identified those players but the club should have said no as soon as those prices were quoted.

Exactly. Its baffling that anyone actually thinks its any manager's fault that a club hierachy was dumb enough to pay 70 plus m for a young 11 game striker who isn't a generational talent.

 

[roseguy64]

Teething problems of a new system, structure and tactical way of play. Calm down

That only accounts for the attacking play not the defensive mistakes.

Well I guess you could say demoting the set piece coach and implementing something new is part of it.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Yea or we should win the header. Either way, that’s not the point. The point is our back 3 did not have an awful display as @NotoriousISSY suggested

Martinez.

He’s not cut for the Premier League. He’s been awful longer than he’s been good.

We also conceded 11 shots today. That’s not a good home display.

The team looks disjointed and is devoid of any true attacking pattern. I put that down to their abilities to play this system and exposing a lot of them for the mediocre level many of them truly are.

 

[roseguy64]

There were a few times in the first half where good balls were put in to his area where either he wasnt there (including one where Bruno was visibly unhappy with him) or he he was there but messed it up.

When you say waste chances that suggests he's getting into goal-scoring positions and shooting badly.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Our fans need patience. Too many are understanding and under estimating how different defending in a 3 to defending in a 5 is. Yet this team is bring taught this in mid season, without enough training time, amidst fixture pile up. From time to time they are going to revert to old back 4 structure habits. Get defensive distances wrong (Yoro & Martinez second half). Close down in the wrong way on the flanks (Dalot defending like a wingback in a 4). Crossing in the wrong zone from wing backa (Dalot). Even lean too much on the left in attack. Rushing one touch play ij midfield (when behind second half). Plus in general being a tad too slow in switching the play to opposite flanks inbuild up. All old habits from the previous way of play.


It's not even be a month yet if I'm not mistaken. Let's see what we are like after 2. Plus hopefully a short winter break for a training camp in Jan.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

That only accounts for the attacking play not the defensive mistakes.

Really? You never noticed Yoro and Martinez distinctly getting all the defensive distances wrong for 20 straight minutes post half time? Plus Dalot defending like he had no cb behind him and inadvertently allowing crosses. (Which is a back 4 trait) rather than being right down the throat of ANY one ina wide area thanks to he extra cb cover of a 3?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I missed the game can somebody provide an accurate summary (and not overly negative unless necessary!)

 

[croadyman]

What is it about playing Forest in December

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Onana needs to go.

Get a grip. Genuinely pathetic

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I missed the game can somebody provide an accurate summary (and not overly negative unless necessary!)

Weird game. Conceded soft goals within two minutes of the start of each half. The second an awful mistake by Onana. Then conceded a third which should also have been saved (cleared off the line by Martinez)

Between those three grim moments we actually looked decent enough - scoring a couple of nice goals, hitting the bar annd generally controlling the game. Forest created very little of note outside those goals (scored with each of their 3 goals on target) However the final 15 minutes were horrible as we made a load of substitutions, including taking off two of our best players (Bruno and Ugarte) so the game petered out in a disjointed mess. Which was excruciating to watch and has made everyone on here lose their minds ever since.

 

[saivet]

I didn't watch the game, obviously a disappointing result but looking at the stat it looks like we were the better team? Was that a reflection of the game or is it more that Forrest deserved to be 3-1 up before we had chances/dominated the ball.

 

[bstb3]

I didn't watch the game, obviously a disappointing result but looking at the stat it looks like we were the better team? Was that a reflection of the game or is it more that Forrest deserved to be 3-1 up before we had chances/dominated the ball.

Pretty much. We conceded softly at the start of the game, then pretty much bossed the first half without creating a lot of good chances, with Forest defending well. 1-1 and at half time we seemed ok. 2nd half we gave two really stupid goals away, Forest sat back a bit and we couldn't break them down enough. Thats basically it. Amorim made a lot of subs, none of them impacted in any way.

 

[saivet]

Pretty much. We conceded softly at the start of the game, then pretty much bossed the first half without creating a lot of good chances, with Forest defending well. 1-1 and at half time we seemed ok. 2nd half we gave two really stupid goals away, Forest sat back a bit and we couldn't break them down enough. Thats basically it. Amorim made a lot of subs, none of them impacted in any way.

Thanks! Obviously not ideal and we need to be more ruthless but at this stage, it's more about the overall performances in me judging Amorim.

I did record the game but I'll just stick with the highlights.

 

[Bangor_Red]

Please tell me it's not just a tainted view of thinking around decisions against your own team, but we seem to concede a lot of frees for nothing challenges from our players, yet get the old referee wave play on when our players get rough housed by opposition.hojland regularly gets wrestled to the floor when receiving a ball with his back to defenders. Yet if our players look at an oppo attacker and the stumble to the ground we concede frees for fun. Even arsenal's corners the shoves as our players go to jump for an aerial duel, we never get them yet concede in other box regularly

 

[JimiboyX]

Trying to salvage some positives…Diallo continues to show promise. Bruno was creating (albeit he was the only one as always) and his brain fart, bad as it was, should never have led to a goal. Ugarte looked…ok?

In general we looked alright in the first half tbh, but what a monumental collapse.

Amorim has the most almighty job on his hands. We already had a squad that didn’t make much sense and didn’t really fit into a neat system for ETH (despite most of it being his signings), to the same squad in a new system that it definitely does not suit.

 

[Oranges038]

Weird game. Conceded soft goals within two minutes of the start of each half. The second an awful mistake by Onana. Then conceded a third which should also have been saved (cleared off the line by Martinez)

Between those three grim moments we actually looked decent enough - scoring a couple of nice goals, hitting the bar annd generally controlling the game. Forest created very little of note outside those goals (scored with each of their 3 goals on target) However the final 15 minutes were horrible as we made a load of substitutions, including taking off two of our best players (Bruno and Ugarte) so the game petered out in a disjointed mess. Which was excruciating to watch and has made everyone on here lose their minds ever since.

Just about sums it up, sloppy mistakes for all 3 goals really.

Dalot gets sucked under the ball on the corner too, if he kept his initial position he can head it away. 2 and 3 were just terrible mistakes, defending and goalkeeping.

That was a Nuno team performance all over, sit in, break quickly and if they get ahead they are very difficult to break down. We saw that with Wolves before many times.

Referee played his part in the game petering out too. He was taking the piss with his nit picking in the last 15 mins, then only adds on 7 mins, after it took 5 mins to fix the linesmans mic, Maz being forced off the pitch, 3 goals and a load of subs, it could have been 10 mins or more. Then he wastes the last of those 7 mins making Onana move a free kick a few yards.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just about sums it up, sloppy mistakes for all 3 goals really.

Dalot gets sucked under the ball on the corner too, if he kept his initial position he can head it away. 2 and 3 were just terrible mistakes, defending and goalkeeping.

That was a Nuno team performance all over, sit in, break quickly and if they get ahead they are very difficult to break down. We saw that with Wolves before many times.

Referee played his part in the game petering out too. He was taking the piss with his nit picking in the last 15 mins, then only adds on 7 mins, after it took 5 mins to fix the linesmans mic, Maz being forced off the pitch, 3 goals and a load of subs, it could have been 10 mins or more. Then he wastes the last of those 7 mins making Onana move a free kick a few yards.

Yeah, good point about the Dalot error. So frustrating when you set up a zonal defence and players completely mistime their jump for a cross that’s being hit slap bang into the middle of their zone.

And agree about the ref too. Onana was being a pillock but there was no need to make such a song and dance about exactly where a free kick 50 yards from goal needs to be taken. And there were NINE second half subs, In addition to the three goals, the blood stoppage and the tech error. 7 minutes additional time is a farce. 30 seconds per sub and 30 seconds per goal gets us to 6 minutes before you factor in any of the other stoppages. Piss take.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Weird game. Conceded soft goals within two minutes of the start of each half. The second an awful mistake by Onana. Then conceded a third which should also have been saved (cleared off the line by Martinez)

Between those three grim moments we actually looked decent enough - scoring a couple of nice goals, hitting the bar annd generally controlling the game. Forest created very little of note outside those goals (scored with each of their 3 goals on target) However the final 15 minutes were horrible as we made a load of substitutions, including taking off two of our best players (Bruno and Ugarte) so the game petered out in a disjointed mess. Which was excruciating to watch and has made everyone on here lose their minds ever since.

Sounds really disappointing. Thanks for the summary, I know yours will be how I’d have seen it! Guess we trust the process then! I’ll catch the highlights tomorrow.

 

[AndyMUFC]

Brilliant. Was hoping for a win from that game with City next week too ffs.

Knew we weren't going to score when Bruno went off tbf, for his sloppiness on the ball at times we really struggle to create anything without him. He's the only attacking player that even resembles a Manchester United player most of the time.

I actually thought we were pretty decent first half despite the early setback, but yeah it all went tits up quickly in the second and we couldn't get back into it.

 

[bb8]

That could be a blessing in disguise.

How's that? Newcastle isn't exactly lighting up the league without European football. I doubt it helps all that much.

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

I think the structure would work if we had players capable of playing it. It allows a ton of space for the wing backs which Amad uses well, Dalot not so much.

It was infuriating at times today seeing Dalot, Amad and Hojlund making runs and routinely not even being looked for, let alone found.

Martinez doesn’t look like the same player since his injury and the third goal was inexcusable.

From where we were the second goal happened quickly and I assumed there was a deflection that put Onana on his backside. I have absolutely no idea what he was doing.

Kobbie looks off the place and sluggish. Saw a couple of glimpses on his tight ball control but didn’t have that final touch.

Hojlund could be a striker if he was fed better. There were a few times when people opted not to, as if they don’t trust him. When he doesn’t get the service from the team he seems to track back deeper to try and find it - not playing to his strengths.

We need to get past the Garnacho is an amazing prospect thing - he’s just not doing what he should be. His decision making is absolutely shocking and I don’t think being in the 10 suits him at all.

Bringing Fernandes off was a mistake imo. Most of what we did create seemed to be though him and when he came off we went flat with Zirkzee, Mount and Rashford pretty much non existent.

It was such a frustrating game in which we just didn’t click going forward (although there were a couple of promising signs), but a game that we should have won 2-1 if it wasn’t for two absolutely amateur mistakes that you’d expect at Sunday League level.

 

[NewGlory]

ETH has really been our biggest mistake in recent history. All the money totally wasted on Ajax players who isn’t good enough. The players are not better then this, we will not be in the top 4 with Bruno and Rashford unfortunately

Fact check: three of the highest salary players in the current squad:

1. Rashford = been here since forever
2. Casemiro = panic signing of Glazers, definitely not EtH's first choice
3. Bruno - signed by Ole

Antony was a really bad signing during EtH period but he would be a very regular "you cant get them all right" case if he wasn't acquired at insane money and given insane wages - neither of which were EtH decision.

How about instead of trashing the manager who isn't here anymore, we wonder how the hell did he manage to finish 3rd and win two trophies with this squad of clowns?

Because clearly these players will tank any manager. If Amorim doesn't get rid of many of them, he will be the next victim. It already started

 

[Denis79]

ETH left a huge mess , we need to give Amorim time and a lot of Money to fix this. But I feel positive.

 

[Atheist]

Get a grip. Genuinely pathetic

Not really. Not since Barthez has a goalkeeper committed so many mistakes here in the first few seasons after arriving. Atleast De Gea was dropped in favor of Lindegaard for a while. But Onana is untouchable for some reason.

 

[gerdm07]

It looks like opposing teams have figured out how to pressure our 3-4 with success. Amorim is going to have adjust or we will see this time again. Their answer was to not let the midfield get the ball, pressure the wing CBs, pressure the WBs, and lay off DeLight and dare him to make a penetrating pass to break the press.

- I'm glad Bruno was taken off, he played pretty good but his bone head pass led to the easy goal
- I'm surprised Casemiro didn't come on
- Mainoo was just too conservative and rarely dribbled into to space
- Ugarte is good, just no where near a level like Rodri
- Why did we buy Hojlund and what is he good at?
- Maguire might need to start to stop the bleeding with set pieces.

 

[Captmfla]

It's good to see united coming back to score two goals.

 

[Hester_manc]

Ugarte??

Yes, do you really think he is good enough? I think, he is slow, when he has the ball. He can tackle, but can he do anything else? And is that really enough?

 

[EnviedRed]

It looks like opposing teams have figured out how to pressure our 3-4 with success. Amorim is going to have adjust or we will see this time again. Their answer was to not let the midfield get the ball, pressure the wing CBs, pressure the WBs, and lay off DeLight and dare him to make a penetrating pass to break the press.

- I'm glad Bruno was taken off, he played pretty good but his bone head pass led to the easy goal
- I'm surprised Casemiro didn't come on
- Mainoo was just too conservative and rarely dribbled into to space
- Ugarte is good, just no where near a level like Rodri
- Why did we buy Hojlund and what is he good at?
- Maguire might need to start to stop the bleeding with set pieces.

Has absolutely nothing to do with figuring out a system. Other teams have endless amounts of video on Pep system..he has been running the league for almost a decade.

If the same players are failing under different systems under different managers then you can't keep blaming systems. We lost because of stupid individual mistakes, can't blame any manager for professionals making avoidable mistakes.

Obvious that our players just aren't good enough. Very very very few of our players would even get into any of the biggest teams in the world. We need upgrades at most positions. Difficult to compete without talent.

Don't at all understand the Ugarte to Rodri comparison. Ugarte isn't that style of player. Stylistically, Mainoo would be the Rodri in our system..not saying Mainoo is at Rodri level.

 

[bond19821982]

Atleast we are scoring. Feck it, that's all I have as a positive

 

[Reiver]

I hope this silences those optimistic idiots who keep banging on about top four being mathematically possible. Yeah well so is winning the League but its not happening. We're still miles off top 4. The rest of this season is about Amorim having a free swing, working out what works, who works, and what/who doesn't. If we make Europe at all this season, that will be a worthy achievement.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Probably a normal match with abnormally bad goalkeeping I suppose that has to happen time to time?

 

[DRJosh]

Remember the times when Old Trafford was a fortress? Gosh feels like a million years ago.

Very strange and I’ve been following United since the early 90s.

 

[Dave Smith]

The biggest concern has to be the lack of quality shown by the players. For sure, arguments can be made of tactical issues at this point, but apart from the odd one or two, you wouldn't say the Utd players looked much better than the Forest players.

This is quite concerning as typically when a new manager comes in there is a 'bounce' which is essentially the players trying as hard as possible to secure their position in the team. However, whilst their has been an uptick in effort and tweaks to the tactics the overall quality still seems to be lacking.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

not sure what to make of that game.

Structurally we were good I thought and we played some decent stuff in first half. Didn't defend great for that early goal but we responded well.

As usual final ball/shot letting us down.

The second half started disastrously. Still can't get my head around the errors in judgement from Onana and Martinez. They are uncharacteristic so we can forgive that.

Like the first half we just lacked quality to create and score again.

I seem to come away each game feeling Ugarte, Diallo and Mazroui are our main consistent performers. Thought Hojlund did ok and Mainoo decent as second half progressed after a very quiet first hour.

I thought hojlund was sloppy over and over again, and that mainoo was too safe if he is supposed to be the player to advance the ball. Diallo was our main treat and ugarte did his simple job well which is what we ask for him.

 

[justboy68]

I believe in the system in the long term, the squad is just rather mediocre and horribly blunder prone. It's showing them up even more while they are still getting used to things.

 

[oz insomniac]

So, watching as a youngster , Denis Law, Bobby Charlton and the like why have we as a club been unable in the past 10/12 years to identify a legitimate goal scorer.

Watching th highlight of the EPL, clubs like Brentford, Palace and others have forwards that look good on the ball and put away chances easily. Sometimes it’s not shopping the most expensive player it’s the job of scouting to understand that scoring is an Instinct that basically can’t be taught. You have it and that’s it.

There was a boast that we have and extensive and large scouting department across the world, what the heck are they looking at, because they have done jackshit recently. Not helped by a Dutchcentric manager , but it’s still awful really.

A midfield that sometimes looks like they are playing with cement legs and then there’s Rashford, disinterested and lacking in skills, who was teaching him basics?

When you need to chase the game , bringing on Rashford seems an act of stupidity, as he doesn’t work hard, that’s not where his footy is. Hopefully someone will see some potential and sign him, he’s done.