[SER19]

Quite amazing that Liverpool only had 3 shots on target today, and we had more possession. A reversal of recent years problems and we still somehow looked poor and got battered

 

[Darkhorsez]

We were nowhere near as bad and they were nowhere near as good as everyone is desperate to make out.

We were shit, yeah and they were decent - but this wasn’t the same match up we’ve seen in previous seasons where they seemed to be toying with us for 90 minutes while our entire team had a collective panic attack.

Not that that is anything to celebrate, it’s still depressing as feck - but the hysteria and scouse love in after games like this is fecking draining.

Exactly!

 

[Wrecking ralf]

One of my big issues with today were the wing backs playing so high. Against Liverpool of all teams, you can't leave Salah and Diaz with that much space. We knew we weren't ready for them, have injuries in important places and a squad that has new additions and so aren't gelled with the rest of the team. You keep it tight, mark the danger men and try and break on them with pace, not push up to leave all that space for a better passing team to exploit.

That being said, none of us really expected a positive result today. Let's just move on and get this new squad playing together. Results will come and we'll smash some teams this year. We will have a good season. This game just came too soon and at a bad time squad wise.

 

[tentan]

Dreadful again, nothings changed.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

He had no creativity today, hardly any this season. Bruno did play a false 9.

Today it looked like he had a free role, more like a false 10. There was a good 20 minute (maybe more) spell in the second half where Bruno didn't even touch the ball.

The problem I think is that these players are left to work it out themselves, they have no strategy, only temporary tactics (e.g., full press, pump it into space). The whole acquisition of Onana was supposed to allow us to play about 25 yards higher up the pitch as our starting point, but we are still taking the ball of Onana on the edge of our own box. We have no plan other than get it to halfway and then turn around and give it back to Onana so he can kick it into touch.

The headless display is really on Ten Hag. Granted, he didn't tell Zirkzee to miss two chances, but expecting players to thrive out of position is pointless.

 

[tjb]

One thing I don't want fans to say is that we have bad players. I genuinely don't believe a midfield of Gravenbach and McAllister would have perfomed better if teams were switched. De Ligt and Mazraoui looked good defensively. Dalot has taken a step up in class. Martinez on the ball was largely ok and is clearly a class player. Mainoo showed a lot of good things on the ball and was actually good in handling his duels. Garnacho had a poor game, but is a good player. Amad is obviously a talent. Rashford and Bruno have been world class players in this team and Zirkzee showed some good touches even though he struggled to handle the pace of the game today.

However, as a unit, combined together, they arent a good team. Our CB's have to cover so much ground because our full backs are pushed up, meaning they have to play wide. Our play at the back is so complex that we spend ages getting the ball out, increasing the risk of losing it in our own half. The tactics we use do not link our attack with the rest of the team, so our attackers have to work in rare moments. Too much energy is required to play well, which leads to rare and inconsistent performances.

My point is, this isn't Ole's 19-20 where the likes of Brandon Williams, Dan James, Jesse Lingard, and old Matic and Mctominay were consistently playing games for us (with no Pogba or Bruno for the most part). We still finished 3rd with that team. This is a much better team with a lot of money that has been spent on it, yet here we are still talking about a transition and not being able to put the team together. Our fans need to start getting real, it doesn't and shouldn't take three seasons to have a team playing good football. It also doesn't take 3 seasons, with the resources we've had to build a team. Rebuilds for top clubs don't exist. We've fallen into that rebuild trap again with ETH, and now its on us to stop listening to pundits like Neville and actually hold our managers to high standards.

 

[reds_fan_aus]

Please Jimmy, do us a favour, admit you got it wrong and sack this piss poor excuse of a Manager and his whole support team!

 

[Florida Man]

What did he say? Just turn up?

That he set up for his players to exhaust United’s guys by coming inside through the middle. He knew we have a tendency to give it up if they do that.

 

[Florida Man]

Was at the game today just got back.


Loud audible boos for his subs and half time.


He's done.

Sack him before it gets worse.

Who’s next: RVN or Southgate?

 

[Waywestofthere]

We had several chances to get at them at the start and at points throughout the match—almost never turned those opportunities into shots. Pool did. Do better in the final third and this is a close game that we threw away with garbage mistakes from the midfield. I’m not defending Hag, it’s tiring not having a clear plan for what we do with the ball when we get those high turnovers. But, it wasn’t a battering either—except for the point around the third goal where it looked panicked.

 

[Carolina Red]

I don't understand why we still can't defend the far post on a cross. How many of those goals are we going to have to concede before it gets fixed?

 

[lex talionis]

Probably worthy of a new thread to discuss, but we are in deep, deep spit. We were poor against Liverpool and nowhere near the standard required against Fulham and Brighton.

A hard decision must be made this week, not at the end of the season.

 

[Stig]

This is the perfect time to sack him. International break. Ruud as interim. Come on INEOS

We had Steve McClaren available at the end of last year with Scholes and Michael Owen, as studio pundits, doing all they could for him to get the job, except for saying " For goodness sake fire ETH and promote Steve"

Now we have a new contract, hundreds of million spent on players and we are back to square 1 after moving up the board on the a lucky ladder of an F.A. Cup win.

 

[croadyman]

Shame Ralf was listened to over Diaz

 

[always_hoping]

Quite amazing that Liverpool only had 3 shots on target today, and we had more possession. A reversal of recent years problems and we still somehow looked poor and got battered

Yeah even in last seasons Old Trafford Premier league match against Liverpool that finished 2-2. United had only 38% possession and gave up 28 shots on goal (7 on target) to Klopps men.

 

[Eastdog]

Poor start to the season.

A shame that we had a disallowed goal.

You always want to bank those early wins and get yourselves going but we have done the opposite.

We need to bring the fear back for other teams when they visit Old Trafford.

Other teams don't fear playing at Old Trafford now.

 

[Eastdog]

Quite amazing that Liverpool only had 3 shots on target today, and we had more possession. A reversal of recent years problems and we still somehow looked poor and got battered

That is better compared to when we played them before which is plus but simply not good enough still on our end as we had 8 shots and had 3 on target and did not convert while they converted all of theirs.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Weirdly Liverpool did us with the very tactics we are trying to do, difference is as Arne put it if you’re going to commit so many people then you need strong runners in midfield and attack and we have neither.

You see that turn over from Cas and all of a sudden it’s 3 vs 5 as pool flood forward.

 

[Mubs]

Terrible result, but we simply cannot sack another manager. Need to clear out the players, including Bruno and Rashford, and see what happens.

The players are the only constant these past ten years.

ETH needs more time.

 

[Jeffthered]

We were nowhere near as bad and they were nowhere near as good as everyone is desperate to make out.

We were shit, yeah and they were decent - but this wasn’t the same match up we’ve seen in previous seasons where they seemed to be toying with us for 90 minutes while our entire team had a collective panic attack.

Not that that is anything to celebrate, it’s still depressing as feck - but the hysteria and scouse love in after games like this is fecking draining.

You're kidding, right?

They absolutely battered us. They were taking the p*** at one stage.

 

[erikcred]

You're kidding, right?

They absolutely battered us. They were taking the p*** at one stage.

They threw in a fecking rondo at one point.

 

[Rasmus_9]

You're kidding, right?

They absolutely battered us. They were taking the p*** at one stage.

Yeah. I feel Liverpool somewhat let us off the hook yesterday. There were three or four excellent opportunities where they should have scored. For instance when Szoboszlai strolled through our entire defence and tried to dribble the ball into the goal rather than shoot. I’m extremely concerned, ETH has clearly got a stupid idea in his head for how he wants us to play but it is totally suicidal. I was hoping that the changes at the end of last season might mean he’d be more pragmatic with his approach but no! The players also look bereft of confidence already!

 

[TwoSheds]

I watched it with a mate who's a Villa fan and he couldn't believe our lack of depth in the squad. He was particularly amazed that Collyer was our only option to replace Casemiro even though we only had Ugarte unavailable.

I think we did have a good transfer window but he's right that our squad is incredibly light. I also agree with other people talking about our excessive number of air miles in preseason (again). We look sluggish still and it's not a big surprise tbh.

I also think it's fair to criticise the manager though. Light squad, big threat from the opposition wings, you don't tell both full backs to bomb on and leave Casemiro to find 100% forward pass completion or you concede.

I genuinely think Liverpool were shit but however low they went we could go lower. People talking about how well e.g. Gravenberch played are crackers, he won't have an easier game all season and he wasn't very good in it anyway.

 

[Judas]

McTominay probably buries those two chances Rashford created, doesn't he.

 

[redmanx]

It's a football club. The narrative/fans voices matter.

Sadly to this particular football club they dont.

 

[redmanx]

I watched it with a mate who's a Villa fan and he couldn't believe our lack of depth in the squad. He was particularly amazed that Collyer was our only option to replace Casemiro even though we only had Ugarte unavailable.

I think we did have a good transfer window but he's right that our squad is incredibly light. I also agree with other people talking about our excessive number of air miles in preseason (again). We look sluggish still and it's not a big surprise tbh.

I also think it's fair to criticise the manager though. Light squad, big threat from the opposition wings, you don't tell both full backs to bomb on and leave Casemiro to find 100% forward pass completion or you concede.

I genuinely think Liverpool were shit but however low they went we could go lower. People talking about how well e.g. Gravenberch played are crackers, he won't have an easier game all season and he wasn't very good in it anyway.

And Liverpool will only improve; what will they do to us at Anfield later on?

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Who’s next: RVN or Southgate?

RvN but to be honest this fan base should have no say what so ever in comes in next.

We are emotional and blinkered in the extreme. Probably the most stubborn fan base in the league.


For now I trust INEOS and Ashworth with Barrada to make the right choice , I don't know who that choice is. I'm not paid enough to know but if it was up to me a "dumb fan" I'd give it RVN see what he can do or start tapping up Carrick.


I'm solidly in the anyone but ten hag camp.

 

[redmanx]

One of my big issues with today were the wing backs playing so high. Against Liverpool of all teams, you can't leave Salah and Diaz with that much space. We knew we weren't ready for them, have injuries in important places and a squad that has new additions and so aren't gelled with the rest of the team. You keep it tight, mark the danger men and try and break on them with pace, not push up to leave all that space for a better passing team to exploit.

That being said, none of us really expected a positive result today. Let's just move on and get this new squad playing together. Results will come and we'll smash some teams this year. We will have a good season. This game just came too soon and at a bad time squad wise.

To be honest Im sick of hearing the same old excuses like we have injuries and there are new players who are not yet up to speed; the truth is we are simply not good enough and cannot compete with a half decent team. This season looks like going the same way as last season, and probably without the saving grace of a an FA Cup triumph. Ten Haag has to go, his excuses can no longer be tolerated and in fact no longer ring true.

 

[Hughie77]

Quite amazing that Liverpool only had 3 shots on target today, and we had more possession. A reversal of recent years problems and we still somehow looked poor and got battered

Agree, I've watched it again the main issues were how inept with the ball they were when they had it. Gave 3 poor goals all from our possession. Same old can't score goals .

 

[SilentWitness]

For all the talk about us being a guaranteed 6 points for Liverpool...we actually have more wins against them in the league and more points against them than you lot this decade.

 

[didz]

I did enough whining last night, so I'll just say this: De Ligt looked very good and understood when to attack the ball and when it was necessary to clear lines.

 

[reelworld]

Weirdly Liverpool did us with the very tactics we are trying to do, difference is as Arne put it if you’re going to commit so many people then you need strong runners in midfield and attack and we have neither.

You see that turn over from Cas and all of a sudden it’s 3 vs 5 as pool flood forward.

yeah, that's what I think too. What's frustrating is that Slot managed to coach this Liverpool in just one summer, 3 matches into the season while United have 6 summer transfer windows and 3 seasons and it doesn't change a bit

 

[redmanx]

RvN but to be honest this fan base should have no say what so ever in comes in next.

We are emotional and blinkered in the extreme. Probably the most stubborn fan base in the league.


For now I trust INEOS and Ashworth with Barrada to make the right choice , I don't know who that choice is. I'm not paid enough to know but if it was up to me a "dumb fan" I'd give it RVN see what he can do or start tapping up Carrick.


I'm solidly in the anyone but ten hag camp.

Any manager with any sense would stay far away from the United job, unless the money was simply too good to turn down. We've had 6 managers since SAF retired, not counting the temporary ones, and the job has been too much for them all; why?
In the last 10 years we've seen players blamed for our failings, some deservedly so, managers, tactics, the transfer policy, even the supporters and our "unrealistic" expectations, but still theres something badly wrong with the club and that can only be at the top with the owners and management structure. Ineos and Jim Ratcliffe were supposedly going to change all that. Yeah, OK.

So who will be the next fall guy? Southgate? Pochetino? Both men tick the right boxes and say the right things but their records as Premier League managers are woeful, but the truth is that even the very, very best manager will struggle to bring any sort of sustained success to United, or even make us competitive again, unless the entire management structure is properly and fully overhauled. So far Ratcliffe and Ineos have tweaked things, bringing in new faces and creating new positions, but nothing has changed where it matters....on the pitch.....and until the management structure problems are properly addressed, nothing will change.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Any manager with any sense would stay far away from the United job, unless the money was simply too good to turn down. We've had 6 managers since SAF retired, not counting the temporary ones, and the job has been too much for them all; why?
In the last 10 years we've seen players blamed for our failings, some deservedly so, managers, tactics, the transfer policy, even the supporters and our "unrealistic" expectations, but still theres something badly wrong with the club and that can only be at the top with the owners and management structure. Ineos and Jim Ratcliffe were supposedly going to change all that. Yeah, OK.

So who will be the next fall guy? Southgate? Pochetino? Both men tick the right boxes and say the right things but their records as Premier League managers are woeful, but the truth is that even the very, very best manager will struggle to bring any sort of sustained success to United, or even make us competitive again, unless the entire management structure is properly and fully overhauled. So far Ratcliffe and Ineos have tweaked things, bringing in new faces and creating new positions, but nothing has changed where it matters....on the pitch.....and until the management structure problems are properly addressed, nothing will change.

I'm sorry but executives directors of football and technical directors do not select the 11 on the pitch nor do they instruct the team or coach them day to day. So whilst they may help in backing up the manager. The way the team plays is down to the instructions from the manager and the coaching.


Everything has completely changed at united it makes no sense at all to stubbornly keep one element that simply isn't working which is the manager.


There is no manager that guarantees success we are not special in that if a manager fails they need replacing that includes a replacement for ten hag.


We aren't chasing sustained success under a particular manager we are chasing sustained success as a club. Modern football tells you that there isn't time to come good or slowly change the tide because by the time you've figured it out your rivals have made the change and jumped ahead of you once again.


In 2024 and the Premier league changes happen quickly the competition is stronger the investment higher Villa Brighton Chelsea Palace other clubs are locked into the modern game and will make changes when needed. We have this romantic notion that the next fergie is just a backing away. It's pure fiction and if we continue to think that way we'll slip further and further behind.


Watching the game in person the mess in defenseive structure the embarrassment in midfield and the complete lack of any kind of structure in attack was alarming and comes solely down to the manager.


It's not good enough it won't work and the longer we stuck to it the worse it will get. Pull the plug and get your own guy in or we'll have many more days like today. No more pathetic excuses.

 

[Ekeke]

Quite amazing that Liverpool only had 3 shots on target today, and we had more possession. A reversal of recent years problems and we still somehow looked poor and got battered

Up until the 3rd goal it was 50.5% United 49.5% Liverpool. We went up to 52% in the end because Liverpool wanted to consolidate the win and keep a clean sheet, hence Diaz came off on 66 minutes instead of having the chance for a hattrick

Very little in it and nothing in it when it mattered

Liverpool were quite wasteful despite the 3-0 scoreline, we gave the ball away in poor areas at least 6 times not 3. Yet they only managed the 3 on target like you said. There were 11 attempts from Liverpool overall so quite poor at hitting the target

 

[SER19]

Up until the 3rd goal it was 50.5% United 49.5% Liverpool. We went up to 52% in the end because Liverpool wanted to consolidate the win and keep a clean sheet, hence Diaz came off on 66 minutes instead of having the chance for a hattrick

Very little in it and nothing in it when it mattered

Liverpool were quite wasteful despite the 3-0 scoreline, we gave the ball away in poor areas at least 6 times not 3. Yet they only managed the 3 on target like you said. There were 11 attempts from Liverpool overall so quite poor at hitting the target

Ya im not trying to overstate our performance. We were poor. Just seems that we've improved things that were very poor last year but obviously at the expense of something else. We're way off performing well all over the pitch. We should have scored ourselves too

 

[The-Mezzala]

Terrible result, but we simply cannot sack another manager. Need to clear out the players, including Bruno and Rashford, and see what happens.

The players are the only constant these past ten years.

ETH needs more time.

But both of those players mentioned are his favourites. So as long as ETH is manager they are never getting sold.

 

[AngliaRed]

The first 10-15mins we actually looked sharp and the 1 touch football looked like we actually made some progress since last season.

Then soon as Liverpool got to grips with us, we didnt really look like scoring.

 

[troylocker]

We lost the ball and were caught off balance too many times in our own half. Again it looked like we were surprised by the intensity Liverpool press with and how fast they bring bodies into our box. Poor management and poor preparations. With a full week to prepare for this I just wonder what the **** we do in training.
Casemiro is just too slow for games like this.

ETH is just too poor for this level.

 

[oz insomniac]

Seriou,sly, ETH is not a Premier League manager, there is no evidence that the team has any real structure compared to the rest of the teams in the top 8. The ongoing signing of Eredevise products is evident that they struggle to make the jump to EPL quickly, if at all.

Midfield energy and depth is basically the most important piece of any team in the EPL, which for some reason the manager has chosen to ignore for shiny Dutch products.

Oh well, he will probably not be at the club after Xmas, but let’s get a manager capable and experienced in the EPL , not some Euro centric manager/coach expecting something different that what we have experienced