[Wednesday at Stoke]

The depth for Liverpool is going to be an issue but that starting x1 looks like a title winning team to me. So clinical and well drilled.

 

[mitchmouse]

Well, that was another masterclass in sh!t shows. We looked fine for 10-15 minutes but as soon as they got the disallowed goal, we went to pieces. Awful showing from so many but I'm growing tired of Bruno and Rashford not showing up (two good crosses isn't exactly overwhelming). I'd say ETH will be out between Christmas and New Year - earlier if we lost to Southampton and/or f*ck up in the Europa... oh, and Onana is a PL keeper like I'm a prima ballerina

 

[mitchmouse]

He won't make it through the season. But who do we get to replace? All the good managers have jobs now.

It's a choice between Tuchel, Southgate and Ruud from what I can see. As you say, who else is there...

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

I’ll try and buck the trend and be positive.

There was a visible improvement, early on, in playing higher up the pitch and winning the ball aggressively. Seeing de Ligt and Martinez doing so was a breath of fresh air.

The mistakes sucked the wind out of us very quickly, a more proactive system requires confidence and we clearly lack that. A tough one to rebuild.

Ugarte should help us win the ball further up the pitch, and maybe give Kobbie some breathing space to play out from the back.

Think Keane was onto something about exactly when full backs bomb on when talking about the third goal. And his face when Sturbridge was clowning around with Mow was classic!

If we can get a break, and some belief, I don’t think all is lost.

 

[mitchmouse]

Same issues as last season despite money spent

Toothless attack with no top line goal scorer
Reliance on dads army in midfield
Favoritism in respect of players who are actually wank
Tactics / coaching / style of play is completely non apparent

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's a disgrace that Manchester United doesn't have a no.9... SAF demanded four!

 

[RuudTom83]

United just make everyone miserable.

But take a look at the Match Stats on the right hand side (is that a new feature on the Cafe?)

Doesn't look like a 3 nil game to me. United had more possession, both had 3 shots on target, total touches in the box 31-30, United had more corners etc.

Which just makes it even more annoying! United will always gift the opposition something.

 

[Captmfla]

McTominay probably buries those two chances Rashford created, doesn't he.

McTom doesn't play as a striker. He doesn't get a chance like this all the time. It will fall to Hojlund.

It's not fair to compare like this. McTom is terrible at dribbling and run away from the ball. Zirkzee much better.

 

[ZupZup]

We were not good by any stretch… but the result does flatter Liverpool a bit and Casemiro’s performance was an absolute gift for them. It annoys me how Slot says after the game that if you win the ball high up the pitch you can get right at us 1 v 1… and people act as if that’s some sort of tactical masterclass. No, that happens against practically every team who try and build from the back and lose the ball in their own defensive third.

The first two goals were not even due to amazing pressing from Liverpool. On both occasions, there were simple balls on for Casemiro… but the first one was a shocking pass and the second he just dawdles on the ball. You can’t get away with that.

The third goal they deserve more credit for because they put Mainoo under a lot of pressure and closed off the passing lanes… but it was the first two goals that ultimately killed us.

Aside from all that… Rashford looks utterly devoid of any confidence. It’s like he’s lost the ability to just try and make things happen because he’s overthinking it all and doesn’t want to give the ball away. Zirkzee looked a bit off the pace too and really should have done better with at least one of his chances. Ah well, onto the next.

 

[zapp]

United just make everyone miserable.

But take a look at the Match Stats on the right hand side (is that a new feature on the Cafe?)

Doesn't look like a 3 nil game to me. United had more possession, both had 3 shots on target, total touches in the box 31-30, United had more corners etc.

Which just makes it even more annoying! United will always gift the opposition something.

You have to look at it in the context of the game. Liverpool took their foot off the gas. After the 3rd goal we were done and they should have scored at least one more (Szoboszlai wasted that chance in the box). At no point in the 2nd half did we put them under sustained pressure. Any comeback was difficult at 0-2 but the third goal coming when it did killed us off. We're so toothless up front that it's a struggle to see how we'd score one let alone three goals.

 

[DevilRed]

Man Utd (1.52) 0-3 (1.50) Liverpool​

Hard to believe.

But I guess Zirkzee had a couple sitters he missed.

 

[Captmfla]

Man Utd (1.52) 0-3 (1.50) Liverpool​

Hard to believe.

But I guess Zirkzee had a couple sitters he missed.

It's fake or really bad algorithm at predicting expected goal.

Come on. Dias only needs to score from an open goal. Szobo too!

And Mo Salah more or less have a free shot at goal.

That's at least 2.0 expected goal for Liverpool

 

[Maticmaker]

There was a certain level of 'groundhog day' about yesterdays performance, not to mention Casemiro's personal rendition of a 'Fred Karno's' display.

What is upsetting (to me anyway) is the basics are missing, and a certain amount of commonsense. We had three front men all at times continually waiting for a ball to come to them, instead of moving towards it, with Liverpool players waiting with glee to pounce and rob them; have our players never heard of the saying 'its harder to hit a moving target' ?
Also the masterpiece in self deception, at 0-3 down, and being obliterated (at times made to look really foolish) in midfield, we still try to play out from the back.... I suppose it demonstrates some sort weird self belief!!
The only real credit I would give is to Dalot, whenever he got the ball and there was no pass on, he set off running at the heart of the Liverpool defence, and once or twice drew 2 or 3 defenders out of position, but no one helped him out, either by causing further off the ball distractions or giving him an out ball where space had been created.

This is all basic stuff and Liverpool were spot on with it.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

As a neutral watching the game, I think the issue was basically Liverpool knowing who to force into a mistake. A midfield of a young Mainoo and Casemiro would be targeted by any team; it just so happens that Liverpool don't really mess about when you make a mistake. It was 3 mistakes, 3 goals.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

Man Utd (1.52) 0-3 (1.50) Liverpool​

Hard to believe.

But I guess Zirkzee had a couple sitters he missed.

Exactly. He put those away and it would be a totally different game. Added to that, he slowed down your attack on at least 3 occasions where you actually caught Liverpool's defense disorganized. Against a team like that you have to be precise and clinical.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Well, that was another masterclass in sh!t shows. We looked fine for 10-15 minutes but as soon as they got the disallowed goal, we went to pieces. Awful showing from so many but I'm growing tired of Bruno and Rashford not showing up (two good crosses isn't exactly overwhelming). I'd say ETH will be out between Christmas and New Year - earlier if we lost to Southampton and/or f*ck up in the Europa... oh, and Onana is a PL keeper like I'm a prima ballerina

Yeap. Tired of Bruno and Rashford. You don't get anywhere when your senior players have fundamental deficiencies that are detrimental to how a football team performs. You're in an even bigger trouble when your manager can't seem to find a way to mitigate these deficiencies.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Yakuza_devils]

United just make everyone miserable.

But take a look at the Match Stats on the right hand side (is that a new feature on the Cafe?)

Doesn't look like a 3 nil game to me. United had more possession, both had 3 shots on target, total touches in the box 31-30, United had more corners etc.

Which just makes it even more annoying! United will always gift the opposition something.

Feck me. The possession was passing around GK and defenders. Onana alone took 10 mins to kick a short pass to nearby defenders

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Man Utd (1.52) 0-3 (1.50) Liverpool​

Hard to believe.

But I guess Zirkzee had a couple sitters he missed.

FFS watch the actual game! That was total domination from Liverpool. They should have won by bigger margin

 

[Buster15]

Honestly. It breaks my heart to witness the appalling determination in Manchester United since the great man retired. And I would love to know what he would have said to them after that capitulation yesterday.
I mean. What must he be thinking. Because I feel deeply disappointed. So what must he feel after everything he did for the club and its supporters to have sat through that shambles.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Depressing. I've backed ETH till now as I always believe you must give a manager time.But that supine effort yesterday was just sad.

 

[Michael T]

We were not good by any stretch… but the result does flatter Liverpool a bit and Casemiro’s performance was an absolute gift for them. It annoys me how Slot says after the game that if you win the ball high up the pitch you can get right at us 1 v 1… and people act as if that’s some sort of tactical masterclass. No, that happens against practically every team who try and build from the back and lose the ball in their own defensive third.

The first two goals were not even due to amazing pressing from Liverpool. On both occasions, there were simple balls on for Casemiro… but the first one was a shocking pass and the second he just dawdles on the ball. You can’t get away with that.

The third goal they deserve more credit for because they put Mainoo under a lot of pressure and closed off the passing lanes… but it was the first two goals that ultimately killed us.

Aside from all that… Rashford looks utterly devoid of any confidence. It’s like he’s lost the ability to just try and make things happen because he’s overthinking it all and doesn’t want to give the ball away. Zirkzee looked a bit off the pace too and really should have done better with at least one of his chances. Ah well, onto the next.

Agreed. Casemiro pretty much cost us the game with his errors - the two excellent crosses from Rashford should have been converted by Zirkzee.

 

[tjb]

The problem here is fans are still looking for ways to blame individual players. Whether its in admonishing Ten Hag for bringing in dutch or ajax players or its in blaming us for extending Bruno or keeping Rashford, with our fans, it always still goes back to the players.

However, what annoys me with this is that it feels like whoever we bring in, our fans will eventually turn on them, because the manager we have won't put them in a position to succeed. All of a sudden, we are back to Bruno can't function in a midfield that keeps possession, after watching him do that same thing whilst playing for Portugal. Rashford and Garnacho barely saw the ball yesterday due to Liverpool keeping us in our half, yet Rashford was booed yesterday. Zirkzee barely got an opportunity to get in the game due to how many players were surrounding him with no support, yet some people have already labeled him as a poor player based on that performances. Both Casemiro and Mainoo were put in the lion's den again yesterday, consistently being forced to win duels deep in their own half, yet instead of questioning the tactics, we have fans targeting Casemiro (they won't touch Mainoo because he's young).

The worst part about yesterday's game was knowing that Ugarte, Amad and Hojlund were fortunate not to play. Knowing that if they did, our fans may have turned on them based on the performance they would have been forced to provide. We can change our entire Frontline and midfield and switch them with Arsenal's and I can guarantee you we would still be talking about the same thing.

With Ten Hag, the signs have always been there, but fans of the club always hold so much belief that they aren't eager to address it. A good manager knows how to work with what they have, especially if what they have is quality. Ten Hag made fans believe that it was perfectly ok for him to not be able to play good football with Ronaldo, De Gea and Maguire in his first season. Last season, us simply missing Martinez and Shaw was marked as the reason for our failure to foster a type of functional football for the whole of last season. Mind you, Ole finished 3rd with Pereira, Lingard, Mctominay, Fred, Lindelof and Brandon Williams featuring heavily over the course of the 19/20 season.

Ten Hag isn't a manager who has been hard done by the resources available to him and the backing received from top management. In fact, of all our managers, I'd argue that only Mourinho and Ole can actually claim that. Yet our fans beat on the club so much, that their willing to accept any negative connotoations about the club to defend a manager that has proven nothing in his time here.

 

[El Zoido]

Sir Alex played his part in it by enabling the Glazers, hand-selecting Moyes, then encouraging than fans to give the manager time. Many Utd fans still live by that, many still want to give Ten Hag more time. Those words have stuck. The squad Fergie had during his last season was falling apart thanks to Glazer negligence, and it was only through his own genius that he took us to his final league title. Fergie got out just as the effects of a decade of Glazer neglect started to take hold. Any manager would’ve had a tough time, let alone Moyes. For as legendary as Fergie is, he did not facilitate a smooth transfer of power, he left as the wheels were falling off. So I’m afraid I’m not buying Big Pete’s sob story today.

 

[Moriarty]

Sir Alex played his part in it by enabling the Glazers, hand-selecting Moyes, then encouraging than fans to give the manager time. Many Utd fans still live by that, many still want to give Ten Hag more time. Those words have stuck. The squad Fergie had during his last season was falling apart thanks to Glazer negligence, and it was only through his own genius that he took us to his final league title. Fergie got out just as the effects of a decade of Glazer neglect started to take hold. Any manager would’ve had a tough time, let alone Moyes. For as legendary as Fergie is, he did not facilitate a smooth transfer of power, he left as the wheels were falling off. So I’m afraid I’m not buying Big Pete’s sob story today.

Those of us with long memories will remember David Gill speaking about the club's plan for Fergie's retirement. How history would not be repeated and how the new man would need a CV with European and domestic titles on it. Instead, we did see a similar situation to when Sir Matt got out. Remember too that Gill bailed out at the same time as Fergie. My take, for what it's worth, is that the Glazers and Woodward did not want any new manager to have the same level of control that Fergie had and that control was given to Woodward.

 

[bb8]

Why didn't we use our 5th sub in this game? Like, why not give Mainoo or Bruno a bit of rest down 3-0 in the 86th minute when you're bringing Eriksen on? I know we didn't have a lot of midfield options, but put Eriksen in their place and bring on Wheatley for Zirkzee.

I guess the idea is it's always possible to come back (Bournemouth showed it just this week with 3 late goals), but I think I'd have given those guys an extra 10 minutes of rest of let a squad player have a bit of time. Seems like not the best thinking there.

 

[Maticmaker]

Feck me. The possession was passing around GK and defenders. Onana alone took 10 mins to kick a short pass to nearby defenders

Yes, "there are lies... dam lies... and then statistics" .... quote: Churchill, (I think)

 

[SouthMancRed]

Yes, "there are lies... dam lies... and then statistics" .... quote: Churchill, (I think)

Nobody really knows, but it's definitely not Churchill. Mark Twain and Disraeli seem to be the popular choices. Stats need context, a key element that's generally missing in the football world.


23 hours later and I'm still totally deflated. A defeat wasn't unexpected but not like that. Again. Being relieved it was 'only three' is not a good place to be. Don't know about the dressing room but Erik has definitely lost this living room.

 

[Moriarty]

Yes, "there are lies... dam lies... and then statistics" .... quote: Churchill, (I think)

I thought it was Mark Twain but I could be wrong. However, the phrase is apt. This American obsession with statistics is all very well for their team sports but since it has been introduced into the English game (thanks Sky), a whole bloody industry has been built around it. Look at a match report from, say, 1985 or 1975 and there's no mention of assists and suchlike. Football really is such an uncomplicated game. I just watch the game and ignore the stats, the XG, heat maps, and uncle Tom Cobbly and all. For every player on the pitch, there seems to be half a dozen TV experts telling everyone how it can be done better. Maybe I'm just an old man having a moan but, my goodness, it takes a lot of the fun out of it.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

yeah, that's what I think too. What's frustrating is that Slot managed to coach this Liverpool in just one summer, 3 matches into the season while United have 6 summer transfer windows and 3 seasons and it doesn't change a bit

To be fair it’s exactly what they’ve done for the last 5 seasons so it’s not like he did anything major.

But something really isn’t right with the way we go about it. Fair enough you can’t account for people being rubbish on the ball and giving it away. But surely there is no way we can have 8 people flooding forward ahead of the ball, one of the fullbacks has surely got to stay and cover.

We have too many just wanting to get forward and it is leaving us wide open. Considering we can’t look after the ball to save our lives and we don’t have the energy or athleticism to counter that inability so I honesty don’t see how he makes this work with who he has in the squad.

 

[RedIan]

Interesting read on sky sports news. Slot, how i beat united.
Simple tactics, he knew our full backs would be high up the pitch so high press by his 3 forwards on our two centre back and casamiro and then its a 1v1 situation attack v defence.
He spotted the very obvious weakness in our style and exploited it easily.

Worth a read.

I hope ETH has read it and realised his complete naivety.

 

[Mullet_Man]

The media wank fest going on for Slot currently. He's won 3 games not the league, claim the feck down.

 

[Oranges038]

Missed the game but watched the highlights, so can't comment on the whole game.

The goals are all gifts from individual mistakes.

1. Shite pass from Casemiro with everyone pushed on, get hit out of shape.

2. Shite under pressure from Casemiro, get hit out of shape.

3. Shite under pressure from Mainoo, get hit out of shape.


You really can't be so weak and lax on the ball in your own defensive third, shocking goals to concede at any level of football.

 

[Josh 76]

One fecking league win in 13 PL games against these wankers. Let that fecking sink in.

God knows how many goals we have conceded in that time. Embarrassing is an understatement!

 

[Josh 76]

Interesting read on sky sports news. Slot, how i beat united.
Simple tactics, he knew our full backs would be high up the pitch so high press by his 3 forwards on our two centre back and casamiro and then its a 1v1 situation attack v defence.
He spotted the very obvious weakness in our style and exploited it easily.

Worth a read.

I hope ETH has read it and realised his complete naivety.

This is the reason he should not be the manager of Utd!

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

You just knew there weren't any goals in the side before we started yesterday, but I never thought for a minute we'd be as bad as that.

I have no doubt Slot isn't as good as he looks early on, but he just dismissed Ten Hag out of hand yesterday, not sure there is any other manager in the Premiership who would have been easier to work out tbh.

 

[Florida Man]

RvN but to be honest this fan base should have no say what so ever in comes in next.

We are emotional and blinkered in the extreme. Probably the most stubborn fan base in the league.


For now I trust INEOS and Ashworth with Barrada to make the right choice , I don't know who that choice is. I'm not paid enough to know but if it was up to me a "dumb fan" I'd give it RVN see what he can do or start tapping up Carrick.


I'm solidly in the anyone but ten hag camp.

Mostly agreed. I still hang onto hope for Nagelsmann.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Brutal. Not sure what I expected from the match, because I really have reasonable expectations for this year, but for some reason this loss still bothers me. Then you see this type of thing. Awful.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Man Utd (1.52) 0-3 (1.50) Liverpool​

Hard to believe.

But I guess Zirkzee had a couple sitters he missed.

How much of our xG came in garbage time, when the result was wrapped up and Liverpool took their foot off the gas?

 

[LawmanMan]

We lost because of no midfield at all. Casemiro and Mainoo were so poor and overrun. No strenght, no speed, no passion. Just nothing.

We hade some chances to score and should have but Liverpool were always dangerous because of non existent midfiled.

A game where Amrabat would have made a difference.

 

[Blood Mage]

One fecking league win in 13 PL games against these wankers. Let that fecking sink in.

God knows how many goals we have conceded in that time. Embarrassing is an understatement!

It's been a decade of pure unadulterated hell. We've disgraced ourselves.