Yep exactly, especially when the other team is set up to play on the counter. It plays right into their hands, and we end up struggling to break them down and vulnerable to all of their attacks...
PL L FA Premier League
Everton 3:0 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Sun, 26 April 2015
I think this result will have brought some fans back down to earth. There was a lot of "we're gonna win the league" etc. not too long ago but I think today shows there is a lot more work to do. So much optimism based from just 3 games in the season.
You did indeed say all that. Pretty much word for word.
Shows how extremely thin our squad is. 2-3 players get injured then we begin to scramble to assemble a decent side. Needs to be fixed in the summer. Carrick is sorely missed and our back line today was extremely inexperienced. Hopefully they learn from this, especially young Paddy, he was awful.
Valencia at fault for 3 goals (though hint of foul for first one). McNair looked like a young 19 year old defender playing a tough away game. He's not entirely ready yet.
I saw the logic in bringing Falcao on (sort of), but think that someone like Fergie would've left it a little longer. We were playing pretty well first half. Just needed to finish better.
Herrera was really quiet today - didn't impose himself. Mata as well. Rooney needs to be doing a lot better than he has been.
Some thinking for Van Gaal to do ahead of the summer.
I saw the logic in bringing Falcao on (sort of), but think that someone like Fergie would've left it a little longer. We were playing pretty well first half. Just needed to finish better.
Herrera was really quiet today - didn't impose himself. Mata as well. Rooney needs to be doing a lot better than he has been.
Some thinking for Van Gaal to do ahead of the summer.
Could be a good kick up the arse we need this was always going to be a tough game always is down there but we should have enough about us to clinch top 4 but we need a big summer of ins and outs to improve some areas.Bad day but roll on next week.
I don't get why people are slamming the possession here. We had way more possession than the opposition, that is either a positive or a negative, it is to be expected, it is LVG's style. We did brilliant with the same possession stats against Man City, Liverpool and Spurs, so I do not understand why it is used as a stick to beat the performance just because of the recent losses. Having a high possession is obviously not the hindrance here that some make out to be.
Pretty sure I've seen the same posters lamenting the horizontal passing (which by now I thought people should have understood is part of the tactics), and then the "excessive" crossing at the same time, it was as if the players were expected to find open spaces given to them on a plate, it was never going to be easy when Everton were being so compact after being 2-0 up so soon.
This was a bad performance, no doubt, and being slow in possession deserves criticism. But to dwell on the ball has nothing to do with how well the team is able to keep it, IMO it's about the vision and passing ability, which makes it hard to pick the right pass. I'm sure Barcelona supporters did not start criticising Pep's possession football just because of a loss or two, it was expected to be part of their play.
Pretty sure I've seen the same posters lamenting the horizontal passing (which by now I thought people should have understood is part of the tactics), and then the "excessive" crossing at the same time, it was as if the players were expected to find open spaces given to them on a plate, it was never going to be easy when Everton were being so compact after being 2-0 up so soon.
This was a bad performance, no doubt, and being slow in possession deserves criticism. But to dwell on the ball has nothing to do with how well the team is able to keep it, IMO it's about the vision and passing ability, which makes it hard to pick the right pass. I'm sure Barcelona supporters did not start criticising Pep's possession football just because of a loss or two, it was expected to be part of their play.
lacking depth in the squad.....
Carrick and Jones sorely missed and Rooney hasn't put in a really good attacking performance since Spurs....
possession was good and Everton defended well but if you have top attacking talent and I mean the best you will open up teams like that - it wasn't like Howard had to work really hard.....
Falcao is pointless when we can't give him the service..... think it's a combination of final ball, pace of attacks and movement....when we did fashion a shooting chance the Everton defenders were all over us
credit to Everton though....when they are up for it and dig in they can be hard to break down.... Stones looked very comfortable in the game
Blind is half decent but you can tell he isn't a CM....actually think Rooney was better against Chelsea last week
McNair did great in the first game vrs Lukaku - looked shakier today though
Shaw was alright, De Gea had a few mistakes
shit but it means the next game vrs a defensive counter attacking West Brom side is a must win.....hopefully Hull can get some sort of result vrs the Scousers
kinda looking forward to the end of this season and seeing the likes of Young, Fellaini, Blind, Valencia and maybe one or two others are on the bench, replaced by improved players
Carrick and Jones sorely missed and Rooney hasn't put in a really good attacking performance since Spurs....
possession was good and Everton defended well but if you have top attacking talent and I mean the best you will open up teams like that - it wasn't like Howard had to work really hard.....
Falcao is pointless when we can't give him the service..... think it's a combination of final ball, pace of attacks and movement....when we did fashion a shooting chance the Everton defenders were all over us
credit to Everton though....when they are up for it and dig in they can be hard to break down.... Stones looked very comfortable in the game
Blind is half decent but you can tell he isn't a CM....actually think Rooney was better against Chelsea last week
McNair did great in the first game vrs Lukaku - looked shakier today though
Shaw was alright, De Gea had a few mistakes
shit but it means the next game vrs a defensive counter attacking West Brom side is a must win.....hopefully Hull can get some sort of result vrs the Scousers
kinda looking forward to the end of this season and seeing the likes of Young, Fellaini, Blind, Valencia and maybe one or two others are on the bench, replaced by improved players
We got found out today, Everton got their tactics spot on. We definitely need more than three players in the summer as we are still weak in a few areas. Carrick was a huge miss for us today.
Reality check. We aren't going to win anything without improving (both on tactics and quality).
It also shows very clearly that our defense is absoute shit, and we need to invest there. We played 2-3 games well and people went insane saying that we don't need new CB or that Smalling is better than Hummels. Or that we can easily replace De Gea now that we're playing well.
Other than that, there is nothing to be worry about. We weren't going to win the title this season, and we aren't going to lose the fourth place.
It also shows very clearly that our defense is absoute shit, and we need to invest there. We played 2-3 games well and people went insane saying that we don't need new CB or that Smalling is better than Hummels. Or that we can easily replace De Gea now that we're playing well.
Other than that, there is nothing to be worry about. We weren't going to win the title this season, and we aren't going to lose the fourth place.
At this point in the season with top 4 not locked up by any means, a performance like this is shocking. Martinez read us like a book, knowing that we don't create very much with all of our time in possession and we would be open to counters, just like we've been all season. Our defending was an absolute mess, we left the back wide open for Everton to run into time after time and it could've been much worse than 3-0. Blind was atrocious as the holder and McNair didn't look comfortable at all. The only defenders to acquit themselves were Smalling and Shaw. Valencia was shit on both sides of the ball and I can't wait to see the back of him when this season ends.
Right now, we're a team that needs the lion's share of possession because IMO our defence as a whole hasn't improved. Smalling has gotten a lot better but we're still very disorganized overall and the high amount of possession is still covering up our deficiencies in the back. A way of counteracting what Everton did today is to allow them more time on the ball and counter but we don't have a good enough defence to do that. One thing's for certain, West Brom and Palace are going to set up in a very similar way to how Chelsea and Everton have.
Final rating today is 0.
Right now, we're a team that needs the lion's share of possession because IMO our defence as a whole hasn't improved. Smalling has gotten a lot better but we're still very disorganized overall and the high amount of possession is still covering up our deficiencies in the back. A way of counteracting what Everton did today is to allow them more time on the ball and counter but we don't have a good enough defence to do that. One thing's for certain, West Brom and Palace are going to set up in a very similar way to how Chelsea and Everton have.
Final rating today is 0.
So was Jones. We needed a bit more bite at the back and he provides it.
We were much too cautious. Same against Chelsea and it cost us. Passing was too slow and final ball was cack. We've seen young have some great games but week in week out he can't produce what we need. Nani is better and Depay might inject some positivity into this team. Blind is supposed to be the intelligent one so i'm wanting to see him ensure we don't get hit on the break from out own corner. Everton nearly got in a few times BUT let's just move on from it. Next game is a must win. No excuses. We play with intent and we will win but pray to God we don't over complicate a simple game like we have these last two games.
The analogy of the bus being parked is used because it is impossible for any team to create chances when all the opposition is stood on the goal line.
I don't mind Smalling, but he isn't an organiser. There are goalies out there. We need a RB and I would say two CB's. McNair is nowhere near ready yet. He is great when things are going well, but doesn't yet have the composure when they aren't.
Another gutless performance in a long string of them spanning almost two seasons. Players not willing to step up and try to push us to the next level
Someone, I forget who, said on here just after the City game that we were having a purple patch and that it wouldn't last until season's end. I thought it was undue pessimism at the time but whoever it was was correct.
This has been a big problem all season. We find it hard to breakdown a resilient defense and leave ourselves open to the counterattack.
Maximum points Liverpool can get is 73 and i really dont see them beating the likes of Chelsea. We're on 65, which would mean we need 8 points from out remaining 4 games. We play West Brom and Hull. I really think the top 4 is done and dusted.
Bad tactics did us in. Today was a day to anticipate Everton sitting deep and giving Fellaini no "route one" option.
Fellaini should have sat back with Blind and Di Maria gotten the start over Young, who's admittedly had a great run of late but didn't do much against Chelsea. Falcao shouldn't be getting playing time, even as a sub.
Everton might still have beaten us, as tactics have nothing to do with giving up a goal on a corner kick, had we played a more compact game ourselves the home side would evenrually have had to open channels for us.
Fellaini should have sat back with Blind and Di Maria gotten the start over Young, who's admittedly had a great run of late but didn't do much against Chelsea. Falcao shouldn't be getting playing time, even as a sub.
Everton might still have beaten us, as tactics have nothing to do with giving up a goal on a corner kick, had we played a more compact game ourselves the home side would evenrually have had to open channels for us.
Pretty sure we're allowed to have one bad game. Everyone needs to take a chill pill.
I think we'd be okay with Smalling and a new, top quality CB. I won't start naming names but I'm suspicious of Hummels.
Proper reality check. No quick fixes despite appearances to the contrary. Must scramble into that four spot so much-needed surgery can be done during summer.
I just found the whole thing odd. We'd been brilliant for 3 games. While they were against good teams it's just too small a sample to be getting all excited about. It shows the level we can reach, but no real indication as to whether we could sustain it over a good period of time.
He won't let that happen again. He will have them in tomorrow, watching the game and will tear them all a new one.
When was that I can't remember? All I can remember was speculative shots from outside the box that never troubled the keeper.
Tend to disagree with this, we do not "need" a lion's share of possession, it was always the way LVG set his teams up to play. Having great possession tends to mean getting more players forward though, and in this aspect the weak defence actually makes it more difficult to play possession football. We definitely have a good enough defence to park the bus, our match against Bayern in the CL last year under a manager like David Moyes proves that. And it is a moot point anyway, playing like Chelsea would have been totally anti-LVG.
Imo the only way to succeed consistently with this play style is to have a great defence to nullify the odd loss of possession and subsequent counter while being less compact (as a result of of more players going forward), so that the attack can break down the opposition defence with less pressure to play the risky ball more often than what is optimal under this system. Of course having a better attack helps, but I believe the defence is the bottleneck to our performance levels for the past two games at least.
You're wrong all season we have looked off the pace when Carrick is not on the pitch. He lifts the team and gives it direction.
The whole team played poorly. Defensive mistakes along with failure to finish our best chances, no surprise that we lost.
Also, where is plan b ? Even after Fellaini was off, we still kept playing pointless crosses in the box.
This also shows that we need to improve the starting 11.
Also, where is plan b ? Even after Fellaini was off, we still kept playing pointless crosses in the box.
This also shows that we need to improve the starting 11.
I can't be the only one who thinks that we played well in the first half, but were punished twice for poor defending.
Second half was a whole another story altogether
Second half was a whole another story altogether
This.
Two losses (one where we played very well) and its all doom and gloom, completing ignoring everything we've done well in the past few games. People are making out that as long as a team defends and tries to catch us on the break we lose but thats the conundrum every big side faces. We've beaten sides like that this season and won but we lose two games and its "this team isnt good enough". Jesus.
Even when he was here, they had games where they played like we did today. He didn't let it happen again. Don't think LvG will either. They will be shaking in their boots.
Where's Mr. Captain while this is going on? Disgusting!
Rarely under SAF were we in a position at this time of the season where it was all done and dusted.
I was worried this would happen after the wins vs Liverpool/Tottenham/City. Top 3 is vital given who we may face in the UCL qualifying round
Agree. They'll know in no uncertain terms that isn't good enough.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
-
27%
Luke Shaw
-
12%
Ander Herrera
-
3%
Ashley Young
-
2%
Paddy McNair
-
2%
Robin Van Persie
-
2%
Radamel Falcao
-
2%
Daley Blind
-
2%
David de Gea
-
1%
Wayne Rooney
-
1%
Marouane Fellaini
-
1%
Juan Mata
-
1%
Antonio Valencia
-
1%
Angel Di Maria
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 461 ratings.
Score Predictions
524,33,37
- Man Utd win
- Everton win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 26% Everton 0:2 Man Utd
- 20% Everton 1:3 Man Utd
- 17% Everton 1:2 Man Utd
- 12% Everton 0:3 Man Utd
- 4% Everton 1:1 Man Utd
- 4% Everton 0:1 Man Utd
- 3% Everton 1:4 Man Utd
- 3% Everton 2:1 Man Utd
- 2% Everton 0:4 Man Utd
- 2% Everton 0:5 Man Utd
- 2% Everton 2:3 Man Utd
- 1% Everton 2:2 Man Utd
- 1% Everton 0:0 Man Utd
- 1% Everton 1:0 Man Utd
- 1% Everton 2:0 Man Utd
- 1% Everton 3:1 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 4:0 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 2:4 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 2:5 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 1:5 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 5:0 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 3:2 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 3:5 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 4:5 Man Utd
- 0% Everton 3:0 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Everton
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 35% 65%
- Shots
- 9 17
- Shots on Target
- 7 4
- Corners
- 7 7
- Fouls
- 6 10
Referee
Andre Marriner
Man Utd Lineup
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
replaced by Angel Di Maria
-
-
replaced by Radamel Falcao
-
replaced by Robin Van Persie
