I guess. If you're pushing 22-23 as still young. It's a fairly arbitrary barometer in the first place I do cede.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
What? Mourinho is clearly one of the best managers in the world and a poor half season isn't going to change that. Doubt anyone questions that. The man wins things.
The difference between the managers is obvious. Klopp gets his teams to play attacking football. Mourinho almost the opposite. I, and most Utd fans, want to see attacking football again. Klopp would have brought that. I have voted no for this very reason.
Guardiola would have too, however, we need to be more decisive in our actions to not end up with the last alternative every time we hire someone. Learn from Bayern.
I hope Mourinho tries to adapt if we hire him (it's looking rather likely now). At the very least he'll bring passion. Utd is a dream of Mou's so i think he might actually adjust certain parts of his style. Like giving youth more chances and playing more open football, at least at home. I truly hope so. If he brings in Stones and Griezmann, even better.
I think he'll be fired up. He always spoke and wanted United's job and he'll be challenging for sure. He's enough class to assure a top 4 finish which we badly need right now and why we should at quick and not let another season slip away. He's also excellent record in Europe so with him we'll probably have a chance for EL this season as well. It's no brainer really.
While everybody talks about the last three months why not the last 12? When he lost to Spurs heavily in the beginning of this year and overcame a 10 points deficit to City to win the title? After that Spurs loss he went on 16 games without defeat with 11 wins during that period while losing Diego Costa, Fabregas due to suspensions and injuries I think Remi as well...
The poster said his last 5 years had diminishing returns. As you say, relatively, he's had diminishing returns, but it's still a fantastic record and firmly has him as at least the second best manager in the world within that period.
Hard to tell. The worry is obviously that he's lost it, or at least a significant part of "it".
But Chelsea's season has to be classed as exceptional. What happened there isn't simply a matter of Maureen losing the plot. If we end up with him, I guess the hope would be that getting the United gig will revitalize him. Not beyond the realm of possibility, I think. But there are no guarantees here as far as I'm concerned.
I have no problems whatsoever with us playing counter attacking football. None. After that LvG possession crap in 80% of the games it will rather be relief than what everybody is giving Mourinho a slack for...
Let's not forget that in the last 10 seasons of Fergie's reign it wasn't the free flowing classic 4-4-2 with Yorke-Cole etc game we witnessed before and he chose more pragmatic approach(which a lot of supporters cried out about), so counter attacking football will not be something that is too distinct for us given our later Fergie period.
Klopp doesn't have the half of Mourinho accolades. For one he's a much much higher risk, especially given his track record with Dortmund. Yes he build a great team and was great for 2 seasons but after that I think he underachieved a lot which makes it quite questionable if he can sustain a great team and replace the players that come and go. IMO his late dealings in the transfer market for Dortmund were rather poor and he got into a real mess at the end.
Pep is a no go. I know that most people are salivating over him but IMO he's City bound. Yes I haven't see the ink on the paper, but they have a better chance of getting him. I see no point in chasing a lost cause(like Ramos or Neymar or Messi or whatever) for 20% chance of happening and miss out on every other alternative...
Manchester United representatives have spoken to Jose Mourinho's camp about the possibility of becoming the club's next manager, sources from both sides have told ESPN FC, with current boss Louis van Gaal on the brink of the sack.
http://www.espnfc.co.uk/manchester-...ester-united-discussing-jose-mourinho-sources
Manchester United representatives have spoken to Jose Mourinho's camp about the possibility of becoming the club's next manager, sources from both sides have told ESPN FC, with current boss Louis van Gaal on the brink of the sack.
United suffered a third consecutive defeat on Saturday, losing 2-1 to Norwich City at home in another insipid display, and sources told ESPN FC that the growing feeling among the hierarchy is that it is time to replace Van Gaal.
That would pave the way for Mourinho to get the job he has coveted for years, and ESPN FC has been told his representatives approached United within 24 hours of the Portuguese losing his job at Chelsea on Thursday, with that contact continuing over the weekend.
Sources indicated that Mourinho is fully ready and willing to take the role -- and said privately this week that it would be impossible to turn down -- and that United are "very, very tempted" by the prospect.
His appointment at Old Trafford is still a long way from certain, however.
ESPN FC was told in 2013 that Sir Bobby Charlton, who has worked as a director at United for over 30 years, had such strong concerns over Mourinho's conduct that he was ruled out of the running to replace Sir Alex Ferguson, and sources say there are still some within the Old Trafford hierarchy who are stridently opposed to the 52-year-old's appointment.
The sources said their influence is waning, though, and that some who were against Mourinho before have now changed their opinions.
http://www.espnfc.co.uk/manchester-...ester-united-discussing-jose-mourinho-sources
Manchester United representatives have spoken to Jose Mourinho's camp about the possibility of becoming the club's next manager, sources from both sides have told ESPN FC, with current boss Louis van Gaal on the brink of the sack.
United suffered a third consecutive defeat on Saturday, losing 2-1 to Norwich City at home in another insipid display, and sources told ESPN FC that the growing feeling among the hierarchy is that it is time to replace Van Gaal.
That would pave the way for Mourinho to get the job he has coveted for years, and ESPN FC has been told his representatives approached United within 24 hours of the Portuguese losing his job at Chelsea on Thursday, with that contact continuing over the weekend.
Sources indicated that Mourinho is fully ready and willing to take the role -- and said privately this week that it would be impossible to turn down -- and that United are "very, very tempted" by the prospect.
His appointment at Old Trafford is still a long way from certain, however.
ESPN FC was told in 2013 that Sir Bobby Charlton, who has worked as a director at United for over 30 years, had such strong concerns over Mourinho's conduct that he was ruled out of the running to replace Sir Alex Ferguson, and sources say there are still some within the Old Trafford hierarchy who are stridently opposed to the 52-year-old's appointment.
The sources said their influence is waning, though, and that some who were against Mourinho before have now changed their opinions.
It's become a rehash of the same three things: The ESPN article about Mourinho, the stock market announcement and the general knowledge in the media. There must some newer information..
I just wish he'd resign.
I just wish he'd resign.
No need to be so defensive. Read my post again. I'd rather take Mourinho than end up with Giggs. Pep would have been my choice but like i said, better to hire Mourinho now than to wait and pray we get Pep.
The players have learnt to pass the ball under LvG. With Mourinho we'll see more direct football. That transition, the mix of styles, could see us playing some nice football.
Well, if we go strictly by 5 full seasons, then I don't think he was that successful, because his trophies with Inter don't count anymore. Diminishing returns in his last 5 full seasons is certainly true, no need to add 'relatively':
His last 5 full seasons (3 at Real, 2 at Chelsea):
1 La Liga
1 Copa
1 Premier League
His 5 full seasons before that (3 at Chelsea, 2 at Inter):
2 Premier League
1 FA Cup
2 Serie A
1 Copa Italia
1 CL
I love having him in the Premier League - the villain we love to hate.
But I don't (and never did) want him here as our manager.
People say "but he guarantees you a title"
But I don't (and never did) want him here as our manager.
- the eye-poking,
- the fighting
- the moaning and whining (it's never his fault - always the referee, the opposition's tactics, the weather, the pigeon that flew by and distracted the keeper)
- the feuds with his own players and staff - he will throw anyone under the bus to protect his own ego.
- the disregard for youth/academy (our record of having an academy player in every match-day squad (for what, nearly a century?) would be in serious threat under him)
- His appointment would probably mean another transition period - he will likely demand another big squad overhaul
People say "but he guarantees you a title"
- a) No he doesn't - he's not guaranteed Chelsea anything this year
- and b.) is this 'short-termism' what we want for our club? Is a 'guaranteed title' (nonsense) worth it, at the expense of our identity and our rich history of developing players and playing football the so-called 'right way'?
Nah no issues mate, sorry for sounding defensive, wasn't the case. I think your post was positive for Mourinho. I was reiterating what the most issues people have with Mourinho lately. Most people seems to go on and on for those 4 months while, quickly forgetting he beat a 10 point deficit and pretty much was unbeaten for half a season with those players.
To be fair my top choices would be(if everyone is available) 1. Simeone, 2. Ancelotti, 3. Mourinho, 4. Pep.
The reason being is that I like Simeone style and I think he can build a generation here and he'll be successful in his style in England, with Ancelotti and Mourinho before Pep because of their Premiership experience.
Please do come up with some good reasons against Pardew, I can think of several good reasons for him and why he'd be a good fit. Try to come up with something better than: "he's not managed a big club", which is about as valid a reason against a foreign manager who "isn't PL proven".
Unless Mourinho changes (and given his ego, that's not likely is it?) he's a poor fit for the club.
None so ever. There is only hope that it was a blip and not some sort of permanent meltdown. Plus, his behavior in this last Chelsea spell went from bad to worse; it was unprecedented even by the usual Jose standards.
It is sad that after the Moyes disaster we are back at the same place again so soon. I want VG gone more than anyone else, but I would be lying that it would bring anything more than a temporary relief. The anxiety will remain unless we can get out of this mess that we have created for ourselves since Fergie's retirement. Opposition fans for years told me this is exactly what is going to happen after the great man calls it a day and I always argued against it; because with our massive resources and status in world football we could overcome any challenge. Though, 2.5 years on, here we are, in as uncertain a place as we can be.
As fans we can only keep our fingers crossed and hope that the next managerial appointment, Jose or anyone, will be able to bring back that stability we have been so used to. A team filled with players passionate about playing for Manchester United, playing good football and managed by someone who is able to maintain the ethos of this club is all I ask for at this moment. Winning trophies is far far away from my mind.
Simeone would have been my second choice after Pep. I'll change my vote to yes if it means i get to see Zlatan in our colors
I wouldn't worry about this season at Chelsea at all. But even if we ignore the collapse this year, he certainly has lost his aura of invincibility, his claim to be the tactical genius, who always has an edge. Even if we ignore the matches against Barca at Real, he was in my opinion outsmarted by Heynckes and Klopp in the CL and the same is true for his games with Chelsea against Simeone's Atletico and Blanc's PSG.
So yes, it's a fair question to ask if he has lost 'it' or at least a significant part of 'it'. If you can look past his antics, I still think it's worth the risk. He might find 'it' back, he might mellow with age, who knows. He might not but still give United the one trophy to get that 'we haven't won anything since Fergie retired'-thing out of the way and it's probably a lot easier to move on after that happened.
I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club though, but that's not because I wouldn't trust him to win stuff. I just can't stand him.
Employers can make someone sign a non-compete when they discuss compensation after termination. Though, that doesn't seem to be the case here.
"He might burn down Old Trafford, and feed Sir Bobby into a wood chipper...but at least we'll get top four!"
Bah...
Bah...
Yeah Zlatan has excellent relationship with Mourinho, too bad we could get him that late in his career.Simeone would have been my second choice after Pep. I'll change my vote to yes if it means i get to see Zlatan in our colors
TO be fair I'm not sure how Pep would make the jump. IMO Simeone's style is much easier to adapt in Premier league I've the same doubts for Pep as I had(and have) with Klopp. IMO Pep however would cut it but not be as successful as Mourinho while Klopp will not last more than 3-4 seasons at Pool.
I don't particularly want Jose here either, We've put ourselves in a position where we have no real alternative that can guarantee a similar level of success that Jose can.
I love how this conveniently ignores the fact that he won the title and left every other team for dead last season. You're screaming his failures but whispering his accomplishments. He isn't my favourite person either but once again we have put ourselves in a position where we cannot afford to pass him up. In doing so will leave will even less qualified managerial candidates.
I love how this conveniently ignores the fact that he won the title and left every other team for dead last season. You're screaming his failures but whispering his accomplishments. He isn't my favourite person either but once again we have put ourselves in a position where we cannot afford to pass him up. In doing so will leave will even less qualified managerial candidates.
Mourinho is a (very) short term solution which as a City fan I would be happy to see.
United need a route and branch reform of the football structure starting with appointing a CEO who understands management. This is clearly not Woodward who I am sure has other talents but undertanding how to manage a people doesn't appear to be one of them.
I always thought the appointment of LVG was wrong on so many levels. Did they think he would be another SAF ? Because that is the only justification I can see. The guy has a well documented history of causing discord wherever he goes.
There are a lot of good points made in this thread
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how...over-the-next-few-years.412742/#post-18544630
and this is what United need. SAF has gone. He was in my opinion a talented narcisstic dictator who was able to carry United to great success but because of his personality has left the club in poor shape to continue without him.
Mourinho exhibits many of the same character traits and will leave United back at square one.
LVG is in place and if I were in charge I would leave him there and reform the club around him ready for the next head coaching appointment. A long term plan is needed not a short term fix.
Taking my management hat off and remembering I'm a City fan please crack on and appoint Mourinho
United need a route and branch reform of the football structure starting with appointing a CEO who understands management. This is clearly not Woodward who I am sure has other talents but undertanding how to manage a people doesn't appear to be one of them.
I always thought the appointment of LVG was wrong on so many levels. Did they think he would be another SAF ? Because that is the only justification I can see. The guy has a well documented history of causing discord wherever he goes.
There are a lot of good points made in this thread
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how...over-the-next-few-years.412742/#post-18544630
and this is what United need. SAF has gone. He was in my opinion a talented narcisstic dictator who was able to carry United to great success but because of his personality has left the club in poor shape to continue without him.
Mourinho exhibits many of the same character traits and will leave United back at square one.
LVG is in place and if I were in charge I would leave him there and reform the club around him ready for the next head coaching appointment. A long term plan is needed not a short term fix.
Taking my management hat off and remembering I'm a City fan please crack on and appoint Mourinho
Mourinho is a (very) short term solution which as a City fan I would be happy to see.
United need a route and branch reform of the football structure starting with appointing a CEO who understands management. This is clearly not Woodward who I am sure has other talents but undertanding how to manage a people doesn't appear to be one of them.
I always thought the appointment of LVG was wrong on so many levels. Did they think he would be another SAF ? Because that is the only justification I can see. The guy has a well documented history of causing discord wherever he goes.
There are a lot of good points made in this thread
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how...over-the-next-few-years.412742/#post-18544630
and this is what United need. SAF has gone. He was in my opinion a talented narcisstic dictator who was able to carry United to great success but because of his personality has left the club in poor shape to continue without him.
Mourinho exhibits many of the same character traits and will leave United back at square one.
LVG is in place and if I were in charge I would leave him there and reform the club around him ready for the next head coaching appointment. A long term plan is needed not a short term fix.
Taking my management hat off and remembering I'm a City fan please crack on and appoint Mourinho
..of course you guys would just love that...maybe hire Moyes too right? We keep him and we are guaranteed to be out of the Champions league for the second time in 3 seasons.
I'd much rather take the Jose risk thank you, rather than believe this stupid fallacy that he leaves teams in worse positions than he found them(That wasnt true for his first Chelsea stint or Real Madrid either)
Mourinho is a (very) short term solution which as a City fan I would be happy to see.
United need a route and branch reform of the football structure starting with appointing a CEO who understands management. This is clearly not Woodward who I am sure has other talents but undertanding how to manage a people doesn't appear to be one of them.
I always thought the appointment of LVG was wrong on so many levels. Did they think he would be another SAF ? Because that is the only justification I can see. The guy has a well documented history of causing discord wherever he goes.
There are a lot of good points made in this thread
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how...over-the-next-few-years.412742/#post-18544630
and this is what United need. SAF has gone. He was in my opinion a talented narcisstic dictator who was able to carry United to great success but because of his personality has left the club in poor shape to continue without him.
Mourinho exhibits many of the same character traits and will leave United back at square one.
LVG is in place and if I were in charge I would leave him there and reform the club around him ready for the next head coaching appointment. A long term plan is needed not a short term fix.
Taking my management hat off and remembering I'm a City fan please crack on and appoint Mourinho
Don't get too giddy, Pep's current achievements are winning 2 league titles in an uncompetitive league and getting spanked by Real and Barca in the CL for the last two seasons.
Anyway, we are a shower of shit, but how come you guys only have 32 points so far? Are you guys going to win tonight?
No doubt about that. However, I think the long-term solution is to alter the basic structure of the club, making us less dependent on whoever happens to be the manager.
Besides, regardless of what LVG is up to behind the scenes, we can't stick with him if things have gone sour beyond a certain point. And it looks like they have.
It's a question of salvaging the season, more than anything. The idea of Maureen has to be regarded in that light. If he can give us back a bit of punch, make us look like something resembling a top team again - well, maybe that's sufficient. Beggars can't be choosers, as they say. We can't wait around for an ideal manager, that's even more foolish than introducing a revolving door policy, IMO. Because an ideal manager doesn't exist - and he certainly doesn't exist in ready-made form, all set to be picked off the rack. It's always a gamble to a degree.
Results count though. As much as I love what LVG is doing with the club, the problem is he's looking a bit out of it when it comes to his tactics and his unwillingness to adapt to the PL is frustrating, on top of that, it's as much fun as watching paint dry. He'd be more suited to a DOF role than as manager but he's too proud to do that.
Its looking increasingly likely if the results don't improve.
What is all this obsession with "the long term" about, how can you even think about that in today's footballing climate? It's impossible to plan 3-5years into the future, especially when you're talking of management. People become too fixated on long term strategy and not on what needs to happen now. Things can change very quickly and without notice, you can have a plan for how you'd like things to develop but you can't base everything else around them, it's just too unpredictable.
No manager is guaranteed success, Mourinho is controversial but proven, Pep has also had his fallouts but is an unknown quantity in the premiere league. Sometimes it's all about finding the right fit, maybe Mourinho might just find that at United and because of that his characteristics could change along with it. What I find amazing is how all of a sudden his achievements and standing within the game has changed so dramatically. Six months ago it would of been a different story.
No manager is guaranteed success, Mourinho is controversial but proven, Pep has also had his fallouts but is an unknown quantity in the premiere league. Sometimes it's all about finding the right fit, maybe Mourinho might just find that at United and because of that his characteristics could change along with it. What I find amazing is how all of a sudden his achievements and standing within the game has changed so dramatically. Six months ago it would of been a different story.
Last five full seasons:
Poster said 5/6 years. So 6 full seasons then. And of course it's relatively. It's considered a diminishing return relative to Mourinho himself, but when compared to other managers it's a great record, even if you only take the 5 full seasons.
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Im still on no (i've been on no for years though).
I just dont see him being compatible with the players we have. I cant imagine memphis benefiting from having him around. Mata wont.
Martial will probably be good under anyone.
He seems to have lost the plot a bit, or he just doesn't seem to really give a shit anymore.
I think his best years are long gone basically.
I'd give him an interim contract but i cant imagine him accepting it.
I just dont see him being compatible with the players we have. I cant imagine memphis benefiting from having him around. Mata wont.
Martial will probably be good under anyone.
He seems to have lost the plot a bit, or he just doesn't seem to really give a shit anymore.
I think his best years are long gone basically.
I'd give him an interim contract but i cant imagine him accepting it.
I'm not giddy in the slightest but I do think appinting the Pep who is currently the highest rated manager in the world takes us another step forward.
As for this season ? It's been strange, we started like a train but have been derailed by injuries to key players and I believe, by Pellegrini's reluctance to adopt a more flexible tactical approach.
Tonight ? Who knows. Much will depend on Pellegrini's approach. City are certainly very capable of beating Arsenal but if we set up wide open as per usual it could be a long evening.
Agreed. ESPN are a joke they have feck all sources at United.
I think going forward most of us fans need to forget about the idea of stability/continuity with a manager. SAF was a one off and even those who would love Pep surely must realise he doesn't see himself at any team for longer than 3/4 years.
With that in mind Mourinho is a no brainer since in his (likely) 3 years at the club he'd virtually guarantee a league title and a decent shot at Europe. He obviously brings a bit of a circus with him but is it really much worse than what we've had the last 2+ seasons under Moyes/LVG?
I just want us to play exciting football again.... its been years since we did that regularly..... and jose's teams are generally more pragmatic then exciting.
Who said? Where can I see this rule?
It will be interesting to see if Pep comes to City. He will not have someone who has Messi's brilliance in the front or the technical genius of Xavi to control midfield as he had at Barca nor will he have the undisputed number 1 team in the league as he had at Bayern. He surely is a great manager but this will be a challenge he has never had to encounter so far so will surely be interesting to see how he handles it.
I like him a lot and I don't think his teams play shit football, sure sometimes he sets up very defensive in big games, but most games his team play a high tempo, entertaining style.
My concerns with him are that he falls with his players when things go bad and his record with young players is not very good. But one can say that both teams he had problems with the squad are known for squad mutinies against the manager when things go south and his development of the likes of Varane or Zouma prove that if a young player is good enough he will play.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, if City get Guardiola we have no other option than to get Mourinho. He's that only manager that won the league against Pep in the last 5-6 years.
My concerns with him are that he falls with his players when things go bad and his record with young players is not very good. But one can say that both teams he had problems with the squad are known for squad mutinies against the manager when things go south and his development of the likes of Varane or Zouma prove that if a young player is good enough he will play.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, if City get Guardiola we have no other option than to get Mourinho. He's that only manager that won the league against Pep in the last 5-6 years.
Pep is long term is he?
Long term is 3 years now in modern football, sooner people get used to that fact the better.
Expecting someone to be in charge longer than that isn't normal.
Expecting someone to be in charge longer than that isn't normal.
I don't think he's long term. He got tired of Barca after 4 years, said he should have left after 3. Now he's already seeking a new challenge after 3 years with Bayern.