I'm with you on this one mate. I'm an old school gamer. Online play (COD etc) just doesn't appeal to me.
Gaming PlayStation 4 (Console)
- Thread starter Biscuit1871
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I'm with you on this one mate. I'm an old school gamer. Online play (COD etc) just doesn't appeal to me.
So where can we trace back the dumbing down of consoles from, Lambs?
I would love to answer that, I really would.
The problem is PC gaming has been held back by console gaming since the PS3/360. As much as I love my PC, the fact is we are limited to the console shit with slightly better textures at better resolutions.
HOWEVER, on the PC we still get mods. Play Skyrim, for example, on a PC older than the 360/PS3 with mods and you'll see the difference. It all depends on how much you want to play the (rather generic) first party titles on the consoles. In my mind, shit like crash bandicoot and the latest Halo are no longer worth the expense, it's a joke.
Indeed, me too. We are fecked.
Ok, a very brief history:
Since M$ entered the scene, though it's not their fault. Sony were the first to target casual gaming, they were the first to instigate dumbing down of games (we weren't allowed an easy option after a while, because they didn't want to offend the yanks! It's where medium, hard, extreme and all that shit come from), and they were the first to push short arcade like experiences. Yes, it was the PS1 that first introduced the concept of quick easy gaming appealing to the masses.
M$'s entry to the scene made Sony have to fight, so since M$ are the software people (the xbox1 was a dream to work with, although not as good as the Gamecube) and Sony the hardware, Sony tried to go clever with the PS2 and the emotion engine. At the same time, they relaxed licensing, which meant more small developers could work with them, however due to how the whole 2nd party shit was working back then, they and M$ bought studios up left right and centre, but soon decided it wasn't worth all the hassle.
That's when the publishers came in and took a lot of us over, sucked up as much as they could and start going for profits over gaming.
It is a fact, that dumbing down is real. There are guidelines, rules and everything that restrict ideas and dev costs, to maximise the profits. Sure creative projects seep through occasionally, but even those are heavily restricted. Devs have to work within these restrictions, some do well and others don't. And if you think I'm lying, ask yourself how many of your favourite genres or developers or series have gone backwards in the last 6 or so years?
It's a spiral that has lead to this point, and believe me come cloud gaming it's going to get worse. You think the threat of second hand games and all that is real? You haven't seen anything yet.
But hey, as long as you get to share videos and thoughts and feelings during the game, who gives a feck right?
To be honest youtube has been a great gaming resource for me over the last few years. Strangely enough though It's the old 8/16bit era games which I usually watch gameplay/hints of. I recently gained some invaluable Battletoads and Nes Tetris tips.
I guess in the past, it took so much effort to record (setting up recording equipment, editing the video, posting the video etc.), that to go to the trouble meant you probably had something worth sharing.
Democratising a share feature, sounds like a bad idea to me, as it now allows the most inane contributions to be submitted at the click of a button. The worthwhile stuff could get lost amongst the crap.
I guess in the past, it took so much effort to record (setting up recording equipment, editing the video, posting the video etc.), that to go to the trouble meant you probably had something worth sharing.
Democratising a share feature, sounds like a bad idea to me, as it now allows the most inane contributions to be submitted at the click of a button. The worthwhile stuff could get lost amongst the crap.
Yeah, i felt the same about the latest Halo. I played it for like the week it came out and i've not touched it since, i'm long done with the shit like COD too and even the last Gears of War i barely played. They all seem to be so shit compared to what they were.
I've watched vids of various Skyrim mods and wished i had a PC which could play the game. I understand that games are going to be held back by these consoles so having a 'beastly' PC isn't going to get you that much further ahead then them in terms of graphics and everything but it's little things like the mods which make me lean towards PC for gaming. Things like Indie games too, they're more prevalent on the PC and some of them are really very good.
Can't wait to see how business practices are going to get worse in the video gaming industry.
This generation has had some shocking examples of publishers trying to bend over gamers and it's only going to get worse as technology dictates that we have to give over more of our consumer rights.
This generation has had some shocking examples of publishers trying to bend over gamers and it's only going to get worse as technology dictates that we have to give over more of our consumer rights.
Here's a little clue, you see all those names on the end credits?
I lead a team of just six people (that's only six people) to fully scope, design and prototype a Gamecube/Xbox game in the space of two weeks WITH working gameplay already, on both system. Two weeks. This was a fighting game with ideas and tactics that has never been done, before or since, never, nothing even close. We could have done it in two years, across both consoles, at the measly cost of £200k. I still have all the documentation and IP's involved.
Guess why it didn't get picked up? Because we didn't have a producer and because our characters (which were some varied and fecked up shit) wouldn't translate to the Japanese market, because they'd only accept human characters in the mold of tekken. fecking tekken, where a man has a fecking lion head.
That company went on to purchase the rights to some old school fighting games (from a defunct major company) for millions and promptly went out of business. The directors of said company now work for other publishers.
These people are fecking idiots and they've ruined an industry built up by great people. People like you and I who just love games and use to make them in our own bedrooms.
And it gets a lot worse, you should see what they teach our next generation of game 'developers' at uni. It's not going to get better any time soon, and that not pessimism, that's fact.
What happened to your IP really sucks, mate. It's the problem with publishers who don't really understand gaming, they are so risk averse and try to minimise risk by doing the same old things but more broad and with stupid systems in place to try and suck as much money out of it as possible.
It's amazing to look at a company like Bioware that was founded by 4 moderately rich guys who loved games and wanted to make their own, and now they are one of the worst companies for trying to squeeze every penny out of people with DLC and collectors editions etc and Dragon Age 2
the same 3/4 zones stretched out over 20 hours.
At least there was enough of a negative reaction to DA2 being shit that they had to somewhat raise their game. Otherwise we may well already have DA3 out!
It's amazing to look at a company like Bioware that was founded by 4 moderately rich guys who loved games and wanted to make their own, and now they are one of the worst companies for trying to squeeze every penny out of people with DLC and collectors editions etc and Dragon Age 2
the same 3/4 zones stretched out over 20 hours. At least there was enough of a negative reaction to DA2 being shit that they had to somewhat raise their game. Otherwise we may well already have DA3 out!
What happened to your IP really sucks, mate. It's the problem with publishers who don't really understand gaming, they are so risk averse and try to minimise risk by doing the same old things but more broad and with stupid systems in place to try and suck as much money out of it as possible.
It's amazing to look at a company like Bioware that was founded by 4 moderately rich guys who loved games and wanted to make their own, and now they are one of the worst companies for trying to squeeze every penny out of people with DLC and collectors editions etc and Dragon Age 2
At least there was enough of a negative reaction to DA2 being shit that they had to somewhat raise their game. Otherwise we may well already have DA3 out!
It's all about the money. My ideas might never reach the masses, but at least they are mine and have never been done. I still have pride in that, I still have the documents and all that in pride of place in my office.
A great man I once knew and respected, Molyneux, sold out and now heavily regrets it. He'd be the first to admit that. I never, for one second, regret putting people in their place and walking out. Then again, I never could stand a fecking office full of unsociable programmers and dealing with money men
Does Molyneux regret it because he realises it was wrong or because he's sick of being known as the lying liar who lies? (whether that is because it hurts his pride, or because it damages his future earning potential)
I suppose Fable 3 was enough to make anybody reconsider what they are doing with their lives.
I suppose Fable 3 was enough to make anybody reconsider what they are doing with their lives.
One thing you have to remember about Molyneux, is he's a shit programmer who had great ideas.
Now imagine being offered the chance to take your designs and dreams large scale? He got caught up in that, perhaps rightly so, but couldn't fit in with the large corporation told what to do thing.
I'm sure he regrets giving up Bullfrog. He had built a team that, while not technically the best, believed in him and his visions. He's a great gamer and game designer, and someone I still respect because he never aimed to throw anything away, he just fell for a dream controlled by people in suits who only saw money and have no actual skills or decent idea on what works.
Fair enough. Maybe he was just very naive, and it sucks for him that he's stuck with a tarnished reputation.
He's not the worst, or the most recent. Gearbox software with Aliens: Colonial Marines was a pretty huge lie by the looks of it. Then there's the infamous Oblivion radiant AI.. no doubt a lot of the ps4 footage shown at the announcement was doctored.
He's not the worst, or the most recent. Gearbox software with Aliens: Colonial Marines was a pretty huge lie by the looks of it. Then there's the infamous Oblivion radiant AI.. no doubt a lot of the ps4 footage shown at the announcement was doctored.
Interesting posts Lambs. Did the runaway success of the Wii in the early days persuade Sony and MS to go more and more down the casual gamer route or where there plans already in place?
I think gaming franchises have been another reason why the industry has become stale. I completed Halo 4 a few weeks ago, and yeah the graphics were lush, but was there anything significantly new? Perhaps not. But people will want to play Halo 50, FIFA 59, MGS bullshit et al. In the late 80s and early 90s, we didn't have the same problems due to everything being fresh and radical improvements in technology...plus it wasn't such a massive industry, these days as Lambs says it's become like Hollywood. I also think there's a lack of innovation. We're still playing with joypads sat in front of TV screens. That said at least Nintendo have tried.
I won't have a bad word said against MGS, and you can't put it in the same bracket as Halo and friggin FIFA.
It's everything wrong with the industry.
MGS 4 was dire
I've no desire to get into an MGS debate in this thread, people know what to expect from the games by now (lengthy cut scenes being one).
Since I don't have the face book, what will happen when I press share?
You'll give Weaste a little shock.
How long does it take to start MGS4 from a fresh install these days? Gt to be at least an hour of updates and cut scenes.
Pre-MGS4 was great
Pre-MGS4 was great
I got it for xmas, it's almost finished installing now.
Xmas 2008?
I backed the elite remake (Dangerous) from Braben on kickstarter.
Great way for indies to take the industry back from suits.
Dumbing down of games is still not something I can see myself.
Lambs are you comparing games these days to console games in the 16 and 8 bit eras?
Or to PC games that only appealed to a small amount of people?
Lambs are you comparing games these days to console games in the 16 and 8 bit eras?
Or to PC games that only appealed to a small amount of people?
What? It's irrelevant what system a game is on or how old it is!
If you don't want to believe it or see it, then that's fine. But bear in mind I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. If you like the games as they are, then that's cool, it's all entertainment at the end of the day and if you are entertained, then great.
I'm always giving my opinion and often facts, because people are interested and I don't want to bullshit you lot. If I wanted to do that, I'd head to neogaf and have some real fun
Halo 4 was a gentle walk in the park. And to think some folk think it's the best single player Halo campaign to date.
I could be here all week pointing out games that have clearly been dumbed down, but I'll prove the point by naming two recent ones:
Hitman.
Aliens.
And since people have been discussing it lately, the largest casualty of it:
A.I development.
When's the last time anyone played a game where the A.I was listed as a feature? When's the last time they've seen a review where is says anything higher than 'acceptable'?
I could obviously go on, but I'm happy to leave seeds and let people think for themselves. I just hope we get more real quality games this gen than last.
Hitman.
Aliens.
And since people have been discussing it lately, the largest casualty of it:
A.I development.
When's the last time anyone played a game where the A.I was listed as a feature? When's the last time they've seen a review where is says anything higher than 'acceptable'?
I could obviously go on, but I'm happy to leave seeds and let people think for themselves. I just hope we get more real quality games this gen than last.
What did you think of Halo 4?
The original Halo was the beginning of the end for my interest in the First Person Shooter genre.
Regenerating health? what kind of softcore shit is that?
I stopped playing them properly after 2.
1 was absolutely immense, and the last real leap in A.I too. Everything since has been child's play, and very much COD like as far as I can see.
1 was absolutely immense, and the last real leap in A.I too. Everything since has been child's play, and very much COD like as far as I can see.
I found they all slowly got easier as the games came out at least in the campaign. Used to play them coop with my dad when I stayed at his place regularly and there was a noticeable difference at least from the original one for us.
Halo 1 didn't have regenerating health.
I think one of its main problems is that weapon are too widely available. There wasn't a moment in that game where you felt you've got absolutely no chance. Looking back it may as well have been an interactive movie. And to think I can't be arsed to play Res Evil 6 that's gathering dust on my shelf.
must have been 2 then, it was one of the Halos anyway!
Edit: Ah yes, Halo 1 only had regenerating shield