It's nowhere near as simple as that. Besides, when are 'the reports' that bang on?
Besides, Sony know what they are up to and they certainly didn't think so, did they
Gaming PlayStation 4 (Console)
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It's nowhere near as simple as that. Besides, when are 'the reports' that bang on?
Besides, Sony know what they are up to and they certainly didn't think so, did they
It's nowhere near as simple as that. Besides, when are 'the reports' that bang on?
Besides, Sony know what they are up to and they certainly didn't think so, did they
Oh lambs you tease! Come on spill some of the beans at least! *cough* PM *cough*
To be fair, whatever the 720 may or may not be, this is still the worst generation of machines. It's fecking abysmal
I can't believe that either Sony or Microsoft will be surprised with any announcement the other makes. Surely companies of this stature would have moles at the very top reporting back to them?
Yeah, that's obvious. What's your point?
My point is that many people (not on here but on the Internet in general) seem to think that the Tuesday event will have come as a big surprise to Microsoft and as a result of this, they will change the specs of the new Xbox to match/beat the ps4.
I'm no expert, but the net seems to be saturated with people speculating on how Microsoft will be re-thinking the 720 as a result of the reveal, and this just seems retarded to me.
DDR5 just means its faster than DDR3. It doesn't mean it can store more temporary space than it. If Sony believe that their games will require 8tb of temporary storage then that's enough.
Well you are right, those fools are not. This is why it's ok to read some of the rumours and chat, but never to actually believe much of it. If anything, what me and Weaste have said in this very forum for years now is proof of that, whether knowing facts or educated guessing, we are consistantly much more closer to the mark.
And I've dealt with these 'journos' over the years, I know how little most of them actually know. As for plebs on a forum, just like is on here ,it's about the discussion so you can forgive them for wanting to believe one machine is going to be so much better than the other, but the truth is (and I state the every fecking time!) They are closer than has been said.
However, Sony have changed the memory amount as a response to something going on with the 720. Now I am not saying that the 720 is going to be some super machine, it's far from that, but Sony really want to be seen to be the powerhouse machine here so they've had to adjust.
Now if I had to guess right now ,I'd say it's going to be the same as last generation, where the Sony machine is better. However, the 720 has got something going for it that will once again level the playing field and as the last generation, by the time this one ends neither will hugely stand out. Just as when me and weaste argued this with the PS3/360, you can bet on me being right about that. And that's the worst thing, these machines are further behind the curve than ever and everything is going to be held back because of them. Just look at the released videos, we should be way ahead of that by now.
But that's just the way it is I guess.
Yourself and Weaste have been spot on about most things mate. It's great having experts like yourselves to chat with
Might the 8GB not be for the cloud gaming/backwards compatibility features of the machine? I've seen a lot of people comment on the latency issues of cloud gaming as they see it, but I'd assume that Sony would more likely send chunks of games to the PS4 at a time and players would play locally. Maybe the extra RAM was a reaction to this (with the shutdown-and-resume features in mind) after they discovered 4GB wouldn't be enough.
When they talk about latency, it's probably to do with internet speeds rather than RAM. Effectivly cloud gaming, the game is played elsewhere.
My guess would be that Sony reacted to MS solution for bandwidth speed limitations of DDR3, although that solution is probably more of band aid fix.
Unless MS have something completely out the left field.
Unless MS have something completely out the left field.
This. You need a lot of RAM for recording whilst playing though, but if that feature had been there from the start I would assume Sony solved that problem with 4GB.
That's assuming Sony made all their decisions well in advance. 8gb instead of 4gb, not to show the console, which controller prototype to run with, etc.
And of course, in my mind at least, that just not true. Look at the Boomerang controller on the PS3. Of course Microsoft will be rethinking the Xbox by the way, way wouldn't they? Sony have shown their hand first giving them the upper hand (it's all anyone is talking about), so Microsoft will use every facet of an advantage going second gives them to try to catch up. They'll be conducting surveys, analyzing whether sony's can deliver on their promises. Obviously a radical restructure of the 720 is out of the question, but maybe they way they deliver it, the promises they make, etc will change.
Seriously, why has Weaste stopped posting in this thread?
In a few days he'll be back, telling us he was wumming us the whole time.
What I mean to say is that he is too busy playing his Vita.
The boomerang controller was a relatively easy thing for Sony to change though, considering they already had a reasonably well liked design in the dual shock to fall back on.
Changing hardware is a bit more difficult, and i really don't think two months (as Xbox maybe revealed in April) won't be enough time to change it.
I suspect the jump from 4gb or 8gb, quite late on, is probably the reason why we've not seen the final design of the PS4. Even head of Sony Japan has not seen the final design apparently. AFAIK you can only get GDDR5 in 512mb blocks, so to double the size of the RAM, you are doubling the size and space you need.
You do seem to have this thing that all the memory couldn't possibly be used for games, but you are wrong there.
Textures, lighting, buffering, loading times, a.i states, etc... the list is endless on what ram does.
You really don't get how much time and money goes into designing these things, it's not just the hardware too, it's the API and all that. Just adding 4gb memory to the system is not as easy as going down PC world and plugging it in!
The 720 may very slightly change, but they'll be locked in to 99% of it. Since Sony reacted to them first, I doubt they'll even see the need to change it.
Yep, that's good thinking.
Well, yeah.
Unless Sony thought this was a bad idea, as per my post.
Rather than play directly over the internet, they send a few core files to your harddrive then a level at a time which is to be stored in your console's RAM. That way lag is never an issue because everything is buffered locally before you get to that section of the game.
Given the inherent physical limits of copper/optical fibre, lag will never be eliminated so this method may be the only reasonable way to implement cloud gaming without causing the world's youth to throw their controllers through their TV screens.
So you dont think Sony would have multiple prototypes ready, a Playstation with 4 and another with 8 under development?
I'm not saying games can't use more RAM for increase performance, indeed open world games are massively limited by the RAM available to render the distance and background.
But.
We are still being held back by 32 bit PC architecture, so games aren't designed to use high amounts of RAM.
I dont think we'll see a change in the 720* (well we wouldn't would we) but how they announce everything? Maybe.
Do you have any idea what this 720 thing that got Sony scared is RL?
*720 note 360
I agree.
By further behind, do you mean from a specs point of view, if so, surely Sony and Microsoft are restricted by just how much these things will cost to produce?
fecking hell, how much do you think this stuff costs???
I don't know where you are reading this stuff, but you can rule that place out as a bunch of utter morons!
Sony aren't flush for cash these days, you can see that in the design of this system! Or do you really think they've gone the PC way just to help devs? Even if that were the case, they wouldn't use the cheap CPU/GPU and have it already behind the curve...
Open world games don't come into it, underneath they are no different. As been said, take half the memory out of your PC then play your favourite game. See for yourself.
Since when? I think you are confusing yourself with this one mate.
Now you are thinking along the right line.
Scared isn't the right word.
Finally! But I'll say this one more time IT IS NOT JUST FOR THE CLOUD STUFF. That could well have been done in the 4gb space for the most part. Of course it's going to make it much better for the majority of users, but they WOULD NOT have cost themselves all the extra money just for that.
Have you thought about what Weaste said about the Cell? Going back on that could well show you why they've gone from disc PS3 games to cloud, but I'll let you find that one out for yourself...
Of course! I've said this before too
In the past they've been like Chelsea/Man City whilst Nintendo have been like United.
They have been able to afford throwing power at everything, whilst Nintendo have lived on a good structure and fanbase.
Now Sony are in problems, and M$ realise that soon it won't be about hardware at all, so they both have had to reign it in. Otherwise both could have just bumped up the specs and destroyed everything!
There's also the issue of power consumption and heat, and this ladies and germs is yet another reason Sony haven't shown the case yet...
Why? Why not just tell us?
Because I'm going over the same stuff over and over again, when it's all in this thread. Plus it was Weaste himself who busted that one wide open, and he deserves the credit for that.
See, it does pay to pay attention to our ramblings. Mind you, I said 6 years ago what this very generation would be like, but I don't expect you to go back that far
And let me ask you this, if I extend my virtual RAMDISK to 8gb leaving me with just 8gb of RAM compared to 16, how would that affect my gameplay? What would be the difference in taking 8gb out physically?
What about if I extend the RAMDISK to 12gb leaving me with 4gb? And how would that compared to physically taking it out?
What about if I extend the RAMDISK to 12gb leaving me with 4gb? And how would that compared to physically taking it out?
8 to 16 might not affect much depending on the game, but 4 to 8 definitely will. Why don't you just go and play around if you are that interested in it?
But bottom line is when upgrading your gaming machine, the first thing people always should do is ram. Faster and more of it. I don't know how you are missing the importance of it, but if you are that interested then a quick google search (NOT GAMING SITES) will tell you everything you need to know.
But bottom line is when upgrading your gaming machine, the first thing people always should do is ram. Faster and more of it. I don't know how you are missing the importance of it, but if you are that interested then a quick google search (NOT GAMING SITES) will tell you everything you need to know.
Oh and none of this changes the fact that Sony DID leave it until late to whack the extra 4gb in. They would have decided a while ago if they could or couldn't get the cell (or at least parts of it) in there, which has directly affected the cloud stuff, and back then 4gb was enough.
Now it's not.
Make of that what you will...
Now it's not.
Make of that what you will...
Ah, so thats what your saying!
I guess that actually does make sense, a big shame for Sony thought because they loved their Cel, and I believe they where printing them cheaply these days.
I guess that actually does make sense, a big shame for Sony thought because they loved their Cel, and I believe they where printing them cheaply these days.
8GB to 16GB would affect feck all when it comes to PC gaming. Maybe with Photoshop and things, but with games none of them use more than 4 or 5 even now as far as I'm aware.
8 to 4 would be noticeable, though, if only slightly.
4 to 2 and things would be REALLY noticeable.
Preach man, preach!
Before anyone jumps on me for saying that "games only need 3GB" bare in mind that is without including the OS. As I said back then, PC games use about 3gb of RAM at the moment, because the OS uses the rest and most PC's are still limited to 3.5gb
Before anyone jumps on me for saying that "games only need 3GB" bare in mind that is without including the OS. As I said back then, PC games use about 3gb of RAM at the moment, because the OS uses the rest and most PC's are still limited to 3.5gb
Well no PS3 discs and only PS3 games through cloud would point to them not being able to get it in there, but I don't know that for sure.
However what I do know is there's no way in hell the PS4 could emulate the PS3, no way whatsoever. In some circumstances it'd struggle with the PS2!
But, again, the extra ram isn't just about this. They had a solution in place for that eventuality.
Besides, some aspect of the cell could still be in there. Weaste is your man for explaining all that though. Once he gets his SHAREbutton that is
Not on this gen of games, but we are talking about the next gen.
Do you still think it'd affect feck all then?
Oh and 4-5 isn't strictly true, a lot of games running on a 64-bit system could easily make use of more.
Yes, on this gen!
Well you are wrong again!
I think you are getting closed system and open architecture mixed up here.
No, I've been talking about this gen. That's why every time I mention it I've said using a "current game" ! And thats why everyone has been telling me to play a "current" game with 8gb of Ram and compare that to 4!
I even said that, as we move to 64 bit PC's it will open up the games to need more RAM, but 4gb should still have been enough on the PS4 IMO. Might be wrong, but we shouldn't have seen another Skyrim even if Sony hadn't doubled it.
How!?
FFS
This gen, messing around with memory up to 8 (maybe a little higher) would change things.
Next gen it'll go up.
You are confusing a closed system console with an open PC. Games aren't limited to what they use on a PC! That's why you can play PS3 level games on a PC with less memory, just as much as you can play them on a system with more. I think this is where you are getting confused.
How!?
Crikey, this is getting tedious now
In fairness, you have over 300 posts in this thread, Weaste with even more. It's not very realistic to go through tons of pages to find one specific quote. Credit or not, no-one is going to do that. I'm also interested in what you think has Sony so scared too, coudn't you just tell us?
It was pages of the stuff! And it's Weaste's thoughts! I'm just going round in circles here anyway, this is becoming a neogaf thread
And no, I cannot and will not come out with things I know. I'm happy to speculate at times though, which I already have in places, and ironically enough my speculation is often more accurate than the facts, the memory issue is one big example of that!