Gaming PlayStation 4 (Console)

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bioware-founder-on-ps4xbox-one-upgrades-itd-be-a-g/1100-6438664/

We recently had the chance to speak with retired BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk, who said he is not very keen on the idea of a mid-cycle upgrade. If a developer had to support two different platforms at the same time (the latest speculation is that Sony's new PS4 will run ultra-HD games and standard PS4 games), it could create a major headache, the RPG luminary told us, though it wouldn't be unprecedented.

"I'd say that'd be a gigantic pain in the ass that flies in the face of the purpose of consoles," he said. "It's funny, there's actually some stories behind that. For example, the original Xbox...Microsoft actually had multiple different DVD drives. They didn't tell anyone that, but as a developer you discovered that you have different performance and sometimes you'd have these boxes of refurbished drives and different brands and different equipment. It caused incredible variability."

Zeschuk went on to say the benefit of having locked system specs as consoles currently do is that it's clear to developers what they are working with.

"The whole purpose of consoles is the set of requirements that you work against from a hardware perspective," he said. "To change that is complete lunacy."

The discussion around a mid-cycle hardware upgrade stems back most recently to the beginning of March. At an industry event, Xbox boss Phil Spencer was quoted as saying, "You'll actually see us come out with new hardware capability during a generation." He didn't say this generation, however. Still, it's an interesting development, and one that Zeschuk says may come from Microsoft feeling as if its Xbox One was outmatched from a technical perspective compared to the PlayStation 4.

"It's almost like Microsoft may feel that Sony got overpowered versus them at the start, and maybe wants to kind of catch up," he said. "And Sony's like, 'Well, if you want to do that, we'll play this game.'"
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Whatever the reason, Zeschuk isn't on board with the idea.

"I just think it's bad," he said. "I think, 'lock it' and let developers do their thing. But at the end of the day, if you can focus your development effort on one set of hardware requirements and target, you are going to get a better result. It's easier than having to split it, adding more people, having to port things across."

"It's like dipping your toe back into the PC pool where you have to consider all these things. It was nice on console not having to consider like performance sliders. But it's just crazy. I guess maybe [Microsoft and Sony] feel the need to."
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It's more a reaction to VR from Sony's side. It's been positive and stuff like Rift and Vive and their own, are getting all kinds of positive talk to make it seem like they might actually take off. The PS4 simply is not powerful enough moving forward long term and if these things do take off, they want a large slice of that market as they've spent a fortune on it already.

MS will jump in, but they can afford to sit back for the moment. Whether they will or not is another thing, but if they try to get a jump on Sony with any kind of upgrade they risk being behind on power again.


Oh and the xbox cd drive thing was a pain in the arse, but not as much as Nintendo doing about 50 revisions of the Gamecube hardware every week on build up to release :lol:
 
vanthaman said:
Didn't realise the new ratchet and clank game was a budget release, only £27.99 at Amazon
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It's definitely a weird one, but as it's aimed at kids I don't think they could justify full price.

But we do seem to have hit a drop in PS4 game prices at the moment. There are basically no PS4 games tipping the £40 mark new on ebay, and not even that many hitting £30.

But this will all probably change with Uncharted 4 and Doom
 
rcoobc said:
It's definitely a weird one, but as it's aimed at kids I don't think they could justify full price.

But we do seem to have hit a drop in PS4 game prices at the moment. There are basically no PS4 games tipping the £40 mark new on ebay, and not even that many hitting £30.

But this will all probably change with Uncharted 4 and Doom
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Not sure about that...
 
afrocentricity said:
Not sure about that...
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Maybe you are right, and that doesnt make sense. Ah well

I love Insomniac





Although, if anyone wants to watch them, I would definitely recommend watching the Crash ones as well. Naughty Dog and Insomniac started as brothers... both signed on the same contract to Universal, and Universal stuck them in the same building, so they ended up sharing code and ideas. Then they both left Universal, as Universal had control of their IPs. Naughty Dog eventually were bought by Sony, whereas Insomniac maintained their independence, which is where there story largely diverges.



 
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rcoobc said:
Maybe you are right, and that doesnt make sense. Ah well

I love Insomniac





Although, if anyone wants to watch them, I would definitely recommend watching the Crash ones as well. Naughty Dog and Insomniac started as brothers... both signed on the same contract to Universal, and Universal stuck them in the same building, so they ended up sharing code and ideas. Then they both left Universal, as Universal had control of their IPs. Naughty Dog eventually were bought by Sony, whereas Insomniac maintained their independence, which is where there story largely diverges.



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Watches a bit of the spyro video, and it's hilarious looking at it these days. Banging on about the long distance views and how they had enemies who had to be attacked differently. Getting excited over what we regard as nothing things these days.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Is it just me or is that just as underpowered as the PS4 was when it launched? Kind of pissed off that they're releasing a new console so soon, but it just shows how much both they and Microsoft fecked up with the specs for this gen.
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Nah that's, relatively speaking, a much stronger system.
 
So if you have a Neo, you will still be able to play against / alongside people playing on the PS4?

That's good to know if so.

Also, interesting that Sony are making sure not to add additional features / levels etc to the Neo version of games - just extra fidelity / framerate etc.

I think that should appease PS4 owners - as they will still be able to play the same base game.

I appreciate some will be annoyed, but it might not be that different to those who had a 720p TV, while their friends had a 1080p TV - they are playing the same game, but one person will have a better visual experience.
 
swooshboy said:
So if you have a Neo, you will still be able to play against / alongside people playing on the PS4?

That's good to know if so.

Also, interesting that Sony are making sure not to add additional features / levels etc to the Neo version of games - just extra fidelity / framerate etc.

I think that should appease PS4 owners - as they will still be able to play the same base game.

I appreciate some will be annoyed, but it might not be that different to those who had a 720p TV, while their friends had a 1080p TV - they are playing the same game, but one person will have a better visual experience.
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The issue is that a lot of people have just upgraded from a slow-sluggish PS3 with downgraded graphics to what they thought was going to be THE state of the art console for the standard 4 more years. That's the issue. People have spunked a lot of money on a console they expect to be the technology consoles can offer for a good while. It's not like an Iphone where you know there will be another one a year later. I mean, it will be a right kick in the balls if soon my new PS4 is running games at the same framerate/graphical concessions as my old PS3 was a few months back.
 
One Night Only said:
Watches a bit of the spyro video, and it's hilarious looking at it these days. Banging on about the long distance views and how they had enemies who had to be attacked differently. Getting excited over what we regard as nothing things these days.
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Yeah it's crazy. The original crash didn't even have enemies that could track you! They just walked around aimlessly or simply went back and forth.

Great game though.
 
Games running in NEO mode will be able to use the hardware upgrades (and an additional 512 MiB in the memory budget) to offer increased and more stable frame rate and higher visual fidelity, at least when those games run at 1080p on HDTVs. The NEO will also support 4K image output, but games themselves are not required to be 4K native.

The NEO will not supplant the current PS4, but will exist alongside of it and use the same user environment. The PS4 and NEO will use the same PSN store, connect to the same online communities, and offer the same user experience, so expect to see the same cross media bar that you’re used to. Players will be able to retain all of the purchases they made on the PS4.

Sony seems committed to keeping the NEO and the original PS4 player bases connected. As such, there will be no NEO-only games, and Sony will not let developers separate NEO users from original PS4 players while playing on PSN. Likewise, Sony explicitly and repeatedly states that developers cannot offer exclusive gameplay options or special unlockables for NEO players—so don’t expect NEO owners to get a level editor or a special Rocket League car that you won’t have access to on your original PS4.
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If all of this is true then I have no problem at all with an upgraded PS4.
 
Why are they calling it the NEO though. That's just a jumbled up version of ONE.

ONE vs ONE.

Are you the one? No I'm the one!
 
rcoobc said:
Why are they calling it the NEO though. That's just a jumbled up version of ONE.

ONE vs ONE.

Are you the one? No I'm the one!
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Maybe the guy giving out code names is a big Matrix fan. Morpheus, Neo...
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The issue is that a lot of people have just upgraded from a slow-sluggish PS3 with downgraded graphics to what they thought was going to be THE state of the art console for the standard 4 more years. That's the issue. People have spunked a lot of money on a console they expect to be the technology consoles can offer for a good while. It's not like an Iphone where you know there will be another one a year later. I mean, it will be a right kick in the balls if soon my new PS4 is running games at the same framerate/graphical concessions as my old PS3 was a few months back.
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Fair enough - and I completely understand that thinking to. Unfortunately it's just the way things are going. True, consoles were one of the few domains where this wasn't so evident. But when I bought my TV, I made sure I didn't look at any TVs in store or online for the next few months to avoid having buyers remorse!

ArmandTamzarian said:
If all of this is true then I have no problem at all with an upgraded PS4.
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I do wonder how it works if you are player PS4 and player NEO are competing online in either a FPS or a racing game - one person having 60fps vs 30fps would seem like a big advantage?
 
swooshboy said:
Fair enough - and I completely understand that thinking to. Unfortunately it's just the way things are going. True, consoles were one of the few domains where this wasn't so evident. But when I bought my TV, I made sure I didn't look at any TVs in store or online for the next few months to avoid having buyers remorse!



I do wonder how it works if you are player PS4 and player NEO are competing online in either a FPS or a racing game - one person having 60fps vs 30fps would seem like a big advantage?
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Just like how it works on PC games.
 
I'll be okay with this if there is a reasonable upgrade/exchange process available, even though I dont see myself getting a 4k TV for a good few years.
 
neelu91 said:
Maybe the guy giving out code names is a big Matrix fan. Morpheus, Neo...
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Ha... I had forgotten they called the VR Project Morpheus. Makes sense now. Maybe they will bring out a new Vita and call it Project Trinity :drool:
 
swooshboy said:
I do wonder how it works if you are player PS4 and player NEO are competing online in either a FPS or a racing game - one person having 60fps vs 30fps would seem like a big advantage?
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Hmm yeah that could be an issue, they could encourage devs to have 60fps in any multiplayer on both systems, it's already a common practice with Killzone Shadowfall, Uncharted, Gears of War 4, Doom 4 etc where the single player stuff is 30fps but they get the multiplayer running at 60fps so it doesn't seem like it'll be too much of a problem to be able to get multiplayer parity, in framerate at least. Another workaround they might be able to implement where they can't get parity is to be able to select whether or not you play against 'PS Neo' players like in Rocket League or Street Fighter where you can choose not to play against people on PC.
 
swooshboy said:
I do wonder how it works if you are player PS4 and player NEO are competing online in either a FPS or a racing game - one person having 60fps vs 30fps would seem like a big advantage?
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I guess it's worth pointing out that, not only do PCs deal with this all the time, but consoles deal with it as well; in the form of splitscreen online.

Rocket League even allows you to have 4 player split screen online, which can cause the framerate to plummet in some maps. It allows you to have aspect ratios very different to the 1 player per console players. Call of Duty also allowed stretched aspect ratios which I much prefer to having black boxes.

I guess thats different in that players are choosing to have worse gameplay to have the advantage of have friends over, but I really doubt it's going to be a problem.
 
One Night Only said:
Watches a bit of the spyro video, and it's hilarious looking at it these days. Banging on about the long distance views and how they had enemies who had to be attacked differently. Getting excited over what we regard as nothing things these days.
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It's crazy, think about the most shitty games in the last few years, drop them in 10 years ago and they're technical marvels, all time greats.

Or look at the modern indie games built to be odes to golden oldie NES and gameboys games, it's basically pixel art but still a million times more advances than any game from the days they're supposed to be copying.

Shit, I'd still play Spyro or Crash over most modern platformers.
 
Earthquake said:
It's crazy, think about the most shitty games in the last few years, drop them in 10 years ago and they're technical marvels, all time greats.

Or look at the modern indie games built to be odes to golden oldie NES and gameboys games, it's basically pixel art but still a million times more advances than any game from the days they're supposed to be copying.

Shit, I'd still play Spyro or Crash over most modern platformers.
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The newer spyros and the skylander stuff is pure jink compared to the original.
 
swooshboy said:
...I do wonder how it works if you are player PS4 and player NEO are competing online in either a FPS or a racing game - one person having 60fps vs 30fps would seem like a big advantage?
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Bingo, as will as potentially higher and more stable framerates, higher clock speeds and more memory will probably put original PS4 owners at a disadvantage during multiplayer on fast twitch based games... DOOM for example. Sony don't care about that though, this week be their 'Deal with it'....

Was only a matter of time before they pulled another cnut move...
 
swooshboy said:
Fair enough - and I completely understand that thinking to. Unfortunately it's just the way things are going. True, consoles were one of the few domains where this wasn't so evident. But when I bought my TV, I made sure I didn't look at any TVs in store or online for the next few months to avoid having buyers remorse!
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That's precisely why this is so pissing off. Tv's, Ipad's, Phones I don't really care if a new one releases which outdoes mine.

neelu91 said:
I'll be okay with this if there is a reasonable upgrade/exchange process available, even though I dont see myself getting a 4k TV for a good few years.
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What would be reasonable? Can't see Sony making it cheap. Also can't see anyone who has spent 35K for a Ps4 in India spending big on the VR version any time soon.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
That's precisely why this is so pissing off. Tv's, Ipad's, Phones I don't really care if a new one releases which outdoes mine.


What would be reasonable? Can't see Sony making it cheap. Also can't see anyone who has spent 35K for a Ps4 in India spending big on the VR version any time soon.
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Something around 15k will be fine if the performance increase is substantial. Though I guess by the time this comes out the original PS4 will be selling at around 25k and PS4.5 will most likely launch at 40k so upgrade will cost much more than that.
 
neelu91 said:
Something around 15k will be fine if the performance increase is substantial. Though I guess by the time this comes out the original PS4 will be selling at around 25k and PS4.5 will most likely launch at 40k so upgrade will cost much more than that.
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That's it. To expect people to spend another 20-25K after they've spent 30-35K, is nonsensical.
 
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