Pretty much the new ethos nowadays for everyone.
Is it finished?
Yes: release it
No: release it, we can patch it later
Is it finished?
Yes: release it
No: release it, we can patch it later
Gaming PlayStation 4 (Console)
- Thread starter Biscuit1871
- Start date
You really have to think, would it not have been far more simple to just stick the Cell into the PS4?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now
8 PS3s on a single motherboard, really?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now
Sony has developed brand new PS3 hardware to power its PlayStation Now streaming service, revealed earlier this month at CES in Las Vegas. Sources who have been briefed on the project suggest that the new PlayStation 3 consists of eight custom console units built into a single rack server. It's the new PlayStation hardware that everyone will have access to, but few will actually see.
Initially, Digital Foundry has learned that Sony experimented by placing standard retail units into datacentres, but plans to use this for the actual PlayStation Now service were shelved for a number of reasons. For starters there's the sheer space requirement, along with power efficiency issues, as even the most recent PS3 hardware can still draw up to 80W from the mains. Sony's engineers were able to mitigate both issues by shrinking the equivalent of eight PS3s onto a single motherboard, housed in a slimline server cabinet.
The second reason for the all-new PlayStation 3 server design is that it allows Sony to make hardware changes to the PS3 configuration that claw back a few vital milliseconds here and there to lower end-to-end latency.
To understand this, we start by looking back at the PC-driven OnLive and Gaikai services, which are very similar. The idea with those services is that games run at 60Hz (or even higher) on PC hardware, lowering end-to-end latency by something in the region of 50ms compared to the console 30fps standard. Second-gen cloud hardware like GeForce Grid actually improves on that significantly by tying the video encoder directly into the graphics hardware.
These latency-saving measures are then offset against the cloud streaming workflow - video encode, transmission over the internet, and client-side decode. In a very best-case scenario with OnLive and Gaikai, we can see input lag that is very, very close to a 30Hz console experience. Indeed, in our original Gaikai testing, we were able to play Bulletstorm with an end-to-end latency that occasionally hit 133ms - the same as the Xbox 360 version. It was an exceptional result (one captured for posterity if you're interested), but as a proof-of-concept it was extremely effective - and achieved on a standard ADSL connection.
Unfortunately, this specific avenue of latency-saving is almost certainly not open to PlayStation Now. In order to retain compatibility with the existing library of games, the code-facing hardware within PlayStation 3 cannot be changed significantly: Cell and RSX - the CPU and GPU of the veteran console - can't be radically changed without introducing incompatibilities with the existing library of software. This presents a problem: the majority of PS3 titles run at 30 frames per second with input latency in the region of 100-150ms. Add on the cloud overhead and you're looking at a rather unsavoury, laggy experience.
"The majority of PS3 titles run at 30 frames per second with input latency in the region of 100-150ms. The cloud overhead on top would provide an unsavoury experience, necessitating a new hardware solution."
Sony's Andrew House reveals the new PlayStation Now streaming service earlier this month at CES. The system goes into a closed public beta at the end of this month.
Gaikai was primarily a software team, but once it was bought up by Sony it was suddenly faced with a problem that could only be tackled by bespoke hardware. In creating new PS3 servers for the PlayStation Now, the team worked closely with their new colleagues in engineering, creating a new PS3 adapted to the cloud streaming challenge. The "secret sauce" of the new design remains just that - in its briefings to publishers participating in the current closed beta testing, Sony has only revealed rough details of the servers - but we can make some educated guesses on how the existing PS3 design could be tightened up for improved cloud gameplay.
First of all, while we expect the basic designs of Cell and RSX to remain untouched, non-critical areas of the hardware can be upgraded. The network interface could be improved with a lower-latency interface, while the controller inputs could be swapped out with faster, hard-wired alternatives to the current wireless Bluetooth option used by the DualShock 3. Potentially, the polling rate of the controller inputs themselves could be increased significantly via a custom version of the PlayStation 3 operating system.
A more significant latency saving could be achieved by bypassing the PS3's HDMI output altogether. Scan-out - the process of displaying the current framebuffer on-screen - takes 16.67ms. A PlayStation 3 cloud server could see the frame dispatched to a hardware h.264 video encoder as opposed to the existing console's HDMI output.
By our estimates, the design tweaks we've suggested could (generously) only claw back around 30ms. That would fall some way short of the potential performance of cutting-edge systems like GeForce Grid, but there may well be further nips and tucks added to the design that could cumulatively produce a more significant saving on overall lag. The Gaikai team have the advantage of complete access to the PS3 design and the engineers that created it, so it may well be that there other latency-saving elements we simply can't anticipate. Only direct comparisons of end-to-end latency testing on PS3 and PlayStation Now can reveal how successful the team has been.
"The leaked roadmap gives some sense of the ambition Sony has here - PlayStation Now isn't just reserved for Sony TVs and consoles. Partners are also invited to add the service to their devices."
Sony is taking its time with PlayStation Now, with a phased roll-out of the service that will take over a year to complete - as this timeline reveals. The service should debut in the summer in the US, with Europe receiving PlayStation Now around six months later.
In the meantime, at the CES PlayStation Now reveal earlier this month, comments on lag varied between an enthusiastic "gameplay latency was a non-issue" from the official PlayStation blog, to a more measured response from Polygon, who described the experience as having "noticeable" input lag, though gameplay remained "more than playable".
The experience looks similar to PS4 Vita Remote Play based on Polygon's hands-on video. The site reveals that the server was actually situated locally - in the same room, in fact - with the assumption being that PlayStation Now was running on a local network. Quite how good the overall experience is over the internet remains to be seen, then, but it is important to point out that the perception of latency varies from person to person. There will always be a trade between response and convenience, but clearly some game types will suit cloud gameplay more than others, while some people may not notice that much difference at all.
That's where we are with PlayStation Now for now. The system is currently undergoing internal testing (we understand it is localised to southern California), which expands into a public beta at the end of January, according to Sony boss Andrew House. According to our sources, the service then rolls out to the USA in Q3 of this year (House has publicly targeted summer), before Japan and Korea gets their chance to sample the service towards the end of 2014. Europe has the longest wait of all, with PlayStation Now set to arrive in the first quarter of 2015 according to our sources. As you can see from the exclusive slide on this page obtained from a PlayStation Now presentation, Sony's own "SEL" devices like Bravia TVs get support in Q3 this year, with "partners" getting access to the functionality a little later.
It will be interesting to see who those partners actually are, but it all points to a future where PlayStation isn't just about traditional console gaming, but an online service available to a range of different devices - not necessarily Sony-branded. All that's required is an interface with a joypad and an h.264 video decoder: smartphones, tablets, televisions - in theory, the sky is the limit. The big questions concern the quality of broadband infrastructure, the strategy behind placement of datacentres, and whether the quoted 5mbps video stream offers up enough bandwidth to a level of video quality good enough to sustain a true PlayStation experience. We'll find out more in the months to come.
8 PS3s on a single motherboard, really?
Well no, because that would only offer support for backwards compatibility on PS4.
They're hoping to be able to stream to pretty much every internet connected device in the future.
How do you do that exactly? How do you map the control scheme of say Uncharted 2 to a phone or a tablet? Are Samsung going to allow a DS3 or a DS4 controller to connect to their TVs? It's nuts!
Most of the people using this will be doing so through a PS4 or a VITA, and a VITA can use it through a PS4.
Android, Windows and iOS all have controllers that are compatible. It doesn't need to a be dualshock.
But yeah, I imagine one day the majority of money that Sony/MS make on hardware will come from peripherals like controllers.
But yeah, I imagine one day the majority of money that Sony/MS make on hardware will come from peripherals like controllers.
This is a gamechanger, Sony surely will win over all the neutrals with this service. It's a big deal isn't it.
Ps now really doesn't interest me too much. It's rare when I want to play old games. And the only old games I actually enjoy are normally from Nintendo.
If it had been up closer to release it would've taken off quite easily. The launch titles lost value quite soon. Especially single player modes on the likes of COD Killzone and NBA.
I resorted to getting ps3 games for an old fat console as I didn't want to spend more on ps4 titles at £45 a go.
It's rare that you want to play old games that you've played before! Quite a different proposition to being able to play the entire PS3/PS2/PS1/PSP library in a Netflix manner.
Still, it's daft! PS3 can play PS1, PS2, PSP games, we understand why the PS4 can't play a PS3 game, it's not possible to emulate the fecking thing, but the rest?
How much is this goig to cost us to play old games is what I want to know? Monthly sub to the service? Price per game? It'll probably be a rip off.
If they follow the PS+ system, they'll probably end up giving you money to play the games....
You can use a ds3 on android devices fwiw...
You can even get a clip that holds android or iphones to it, iirc.
That was it! Cheers mate!
Dunno if this is the right thread for this, but a remote play question.
Is it possible to remap the controls on the Vita, and more precisely, have it only take effect in one game? Kind of like manually doing the swaap that automatically happens in Assassins Creed(the shoulder buttons and triggers swap so R1/Bumper is sprint)?
Basically, I want to swap R1-R2 in Fifa, so the Vita's R1 is sprint, rather than awkwardly trying to press the touchpad(specially with my Vita grip on), but I don't want to have to re-edit the controls every time I swap to full screen/controller play.
Is it possible to remap the controls on the Vita, and more precisely, have it only take effect in one game? Kind of like manually doing the swaap that automatically happens in Assassins Creed(the shoulder buttons and triggers swap so R1/Bumper is sprint)?
Basically, I want to swap R1-R2 in Fifa, so the Vita's R1 is sprint, rather than awkwardly trying to press the touchpad(specially with my Vita grip on), but I don't want to have to re-edit the controls every time I swap to full screen/controller play.
It's up to the designers of the game on how to do it (and they are mandated to do it otherwise they are not releasing the game on PS4 unless it uses the PS4 camera in some way), they might give you options or not, Sony just asks for 1 remapping. Problem is that L2, R2, L3, R3 have to be mapped somewhere be it to the touch screen or the back tackpad or whatever.
On the VITA native version (I have the game both on VITA and PS4 as my son loves it) R1 is sprint, L1 is swap player - I have touchscreen and touchpad tuned off on the VITA version, but it's not the same game anyway it's more FIFA 12 VITAsised with the new team rosters, however that's how it works in that version. EA probably just did the bare minimum to get past the Sony Q&A. I can check, as I've not played the PS4 version via remote play.
Aye, just really like how Assassins done it, would be very handy to do similar on Fifa, which'd be simple in game, but I don't want to have to undo it every time I want to use the controller.
Yeah, I'd like Fifa 14's remote play to have controls closer to the Vita version ad the backpad is wank for sprinting.
EDIT: I have 13 on the Vita, but hate the older(Fifa 12?) career mode.
I have a question. On the VITA version of 14 my son likes to play in tournament mode, FA Cup, Copa del Rey, etc. Where is that in the PS4 version?
I think they removed it from the next-gen version, so you couldn't make World Cup tournaments and the like, with the likely upcoming release of Fifa World Cup 2014.
EA... LOL!
Yup, and everyone will fecking buy it too. 
EDIT: To be fair, Fifa Cup games tend to be better than usual. World Cup 2010 was immense, the game that got me seriously interested in football games again.
EDIT: To be fair, Fifa Cup games tend to be better than usual. World Cup 2010 was immense, the game that got me seriously interested in football games again.
Yeah they quietly released Fifa 14 on the next gen consoles with a bunch of missing features. I didn't even realize until after I'd bought it. What else would you expect from America's most hated company.
And the sales figures justifies what they do.
Seems I can save a custom control layout on Fifa(and name it, so "Vita" lol), nice and handy to flick between sprint button options.
Remote play is the absolute shizzle.
Remote play is the absolute shizzle.
True. I can't even complain, I bought the thing along with everyone else.
Though looking at the broader EA picture, it must be pretty alarming days for the company. Awful reputation, and some massive flops for 2013 including SimCity and Battlefield 4. They still sold, but they've lost a lot of goodwill and that's ominous in the long term.
There's a lot more to come. They are pushing through with the shit they have planned, and even M$'s partial climbdown (and Nintendo's outright refusal to co-operate) barely scratches them.
I'm more pissed off how heavily the latest update dumbed down plants vs zombies on android to be fair!
Can you name all the features missing? I know I'll probably only play UT, Seasons, and Career mode a bit. But the tournaments was good for when you had a few mates round :s
Did I tell you guys I tried remote play? I didn't set it to be wifi direct but I assumed it was since we were on the same wifi connection. The quality was pretty good, I don't think I could notice any lag. There might have been, I was playing COD and couldn't get a kill or even manage to aim at anyone..
BECAUSE OF THE SHIT VITA ANALOGUE STICKS.
They're awful, so awful. The handheld is built so well and the most important thing lets it down. Anybody know if there are any 'grips' or anything which improve it somewhat?
It's good enough quality that I can buy exclusives for the PS4 and play them over remote play, but only games that don't rely on the analogue sticks much.
BECAUSE OF THE SHIT VITA ANALOGUE STICKS.
They're awful, so awful. The handheld is built so well and the most important thing lets it down. Anybody know if there are any 'grips' or anything which improve it somewhat?
It's good enough quality that I can buy exclusives for the PS4 and play them over remote play, but only games that don't rely on the analogue sticks much.
What do you want, DS4 sized sticks coming out of a handheld? Nothing wrong with the sticks apart from them being smaller... practice some more.
They're not good enough to play a shooter. Really not. Especially against people with controllers.
I know there's more than just Tournament mode missing but to be honest that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Unless you count hitting select to skip songs, which I definitely do.
I'm delighted with the Vita sticks tbh, far better than what the PSP had, and perfectly usable. I wouldn't go into online competition with them, though!
Worse than loosing Tournament mode, far worse.I know there's more than just Tournament mode missing but to be honest that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Unless you count hitting select to skip songs, which I definitely do.
Apparently the new Tomb Raider will run at 1080p and 60fps on the PS4 but only 30fps on the XBone. Make of that what you will.
Yeah, they've been discussing that in the versus thread. Seems in Tomb Raider it'll be a notable difference too.
Does this not worry everyone else in terms of how much games can progress in the next 6 years if the consoles are struggling with current titles. I realise there is nothing wrong with the PS4 specs there and maybe it's been optimised and capped to that but when I first built my new PC it was knocking out current gen games at 1080x1920 at around 200fps, down to 120fps when the lighting and effects got intense.
Why aren't these consoles doing the same?
As I said it's the size of them, you have to get used to it through practice. You can't do anything about it, in the end it's down to the size of the ball and the limited range it can rotate in whatever direction - it's about 1/4 or less of the size of the balls on a Dualshock. Stick a DS4 on top of a VITA - it's bigger than it in 2 of three dimensions and in terms of volume is far far bigger.
What? Firstly, how much did it cost you to build that PC?