Define "Utd player".
Phil Jones Future | Reports: Observing United academy sessions
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Define "Utd player".
The shite in here...honestly 99% of people on this forum have no fecking idea about a squad. They want 11 world class players and that’s the end of it.
Oh wait!! So you are in the "right" kind of 1%. Congratulations!!!
Yes, it sucks for you!
Nobody’s going to pay decent money for a player with a short time remaining on his contract.
Hoping this is the thinking here.
Hoping this is the thinking here.
I'd like players that can play more than 30 games a season for a start. Your '11 world class players' comment implies that you think Phil Jones should be a starter, that's quite worrying.
It's you who has no idea. There's a massive gaping fecking chasm of middle ground between Phil Jones, and world class. So no, just because we don't rate him doesn't automatically mean we want a team of 11 world class players.
Congratulations. I would advise you not indulge us lesser human beings on a public forum. Might bring down your awesomeness.
Lindelof is not world class, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone that wants to get rid of him now. That is because he is improving with game time and is reliable. Jones is still making game changing errors this season, nothing has changed with him for years.
No-ones said that, that's just you (the enlightened 1%) making assumptions.
Jones is not good enough for us if we're serious about winning leagues/European trophies again. Not even as a squad player.
No harm having him on the bench if someone gets injured in a match. Or if someone is suspended etc.
Still, keeps bloody getting injured and prone to these brainfarts that lead to goals for the opposition.
Still, keeps bloody getting injured and prone to these brainfarts that lead to goals for the opposition.
People wanting Jones to be fit enough to play a backup defender role in a big squad, are in the wrong 99%. Totally
And on top of it, he gets injured in training, gets injured off the field, he gets injured coming back from an injury.
2+2 ok, 3+1 maybe, ......FOUR..... --- PLUS ONE ??????????????????? on what wage?
we are the opposite of Arsenal
how to hamstring the club of player movement both in and out going forward.
we are the opposite of Arsenal
how to hamstring the club of player movement both in and out going forward.
The Munich 8,The Holy Trinity,Crerand, Martin Buchan, Wilkins,Robson,McGrath,Whiteside,Beckham,Scholes,Butt,Giggs,Cantona,Irwin, Neville,Pallister,Bruce,Stam,Cole Sheringham,Ole,Ronaldo.
You get the picture
How is Jones closer to these than Fellaini or anyone actually when it comes to "Utd player" title then ?
Phil Jones, is this you?
Nowhere near O'Shea, Phil Neville or Wes Brown in terms of ability, peak, how many games he can play/season or leadership.
While only a short United career, nowhere near Henning Berg in terms of ability.
I'm not into hammering players for the sake of it but Jones simply isn't good enough. Those other players above were all fine for us, even if not/rarely first XI.
I'd like to believe that this is more about protecting the value of an asset, rather than anything else . Even if we have to get rid of him in the summer, at least our negotiating position would be strong.
When every conversation involving a player has a disclaimer of 'when fit' then you know he's not worth it.
I never said he was as good as them but he's closer than Fellaini ever was. A player we never found the right position for,a desperate buy by Moyes because he couldn't sign feck all.
Look, this is a spurious argument. Jones is needed because we simply can't afford to rely on 3 CBs alone especially coming into a busy schedule. Giving him a new contract makes god business sense and places a value on him;we can't risk him leaving on a free. We have a manager right now who's getting the best out of players and if he gets the best out o Jones then..brilliant.
Then chuck Bailly into that conversation
When every conversation involving a player has a disclaimer of 'when fit' then you know he's not worth it.
I'm happy we kept him, I like Phil Jones. It's about staying fit with him, but when fit he's a beast.
On the other hand I would let Rojo leave.
On the other hand I would let Rojo leave.
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Yeah well so ? I really can't see anything in your post that makes Jones closer to "Utd player" than Fellaini. I don't think even you can see it either as you didn't provide anything to prove it.
We keep giving this excuse and that's the reason we end up each season with the same deadwood again and again and again. There's still Tuanzebe on loan remember ? Simply put from our lot of defenders the best option was to let Jones leave on free, sell Rojo and bring a new CB and Tuanzebe back from loan and you'll have a full set of reliable defenders including a promising youngsters but nope, now we have now decided to keep a player who gets injured half of the season instead of freeing his space for a youngster and a new boy. Not just that we extend his contract for a whole of 4+1! Terrible business.
Jones playing well now means feck all because, surprise, he actually had several good spells under previous managers and all ended the same way. The guy has proved for 8 years he's very unreliable but we're here putting false hope again on it. The definition of insanity you know ?
Why would I bring Bailly into a conversation about Jones? Did you think I've pinned Bailly as the next Rio?
The only centre backs I fancy are Lindelof and Smalling. Bailly had a good first season then became the Ivorian Phil Jones. Injuries and game changing errors galore. Bailly does however have 2 years on Phil Jones.
Guess I'm going to chalk this one up to one of life's mysteries.
Up there with The Bermuda Triangle and JFKs assassination.
Up there with The Bermuda Triangle and JFKs assassination.
I’m really curious where they’re going with this. After so many years, it must be clear he is not the future top CB United need to win the PL and to become among Europe’s best teams again. He is a squad player. For the future United have Bailly, Lindelof and Tuanzebe. I was hoping they would go for all three of them while keeping Smalling and getting one new of top class. But now? There will be the same problem as for the last years: so many squad players who need minutes that the young players won’t get minutes to develop.
His injuries record is somewhat overstated. He’ll have played 65 games over the last three seasons by the time we are done this year.
Best defender at the club.
Eh what ? Other players play +45 games in one season. Smalling played 46 games last season and you're telling me 65 games in 3 years are good enough as evidence on his injuries record being overstated ?
Provided he's on a competitive salary (£50k a week) then it's an understandable decision.
Having Lindelof, Smalling, Jones and Bailly as our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th choice central defenders, with a real top drawer leader as first choice is a solid set of defenders.
People who believed in the Summer we were going to sign 2 central defenders, 2 central midfielders, a right back and a right winger were obviously escaping reality... Our budget is likely to be around £150m which might get 3 of those 6.
Obviously if he's earning £80-90k+ then you'd have to ask serious questions.
Having Lindelof, Smalling, Jones and Bailly as our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th choice central defenders, with a real top drawer leader as first choice is a solid set of defenders.
People who believed in the Summer we were going to sign 2 central defenders, 2 central midfielders, a right back and a right winger were obviously escaping reality... Our budget is likely to be around £150m which might get 3 of those 6.
Obviously if he's earning £80-90k+ then you'd have to ask serious questions.
It gets annoying... especially when you think how quickly we have forgotten the likes of Sanchez, Falcao, Di Maria etc
He’s not always been first choice. I imagine he’s been fit for roughly 75% of our games over last three years.
Whenever he's fit he usually plays.
This number proves how shite his injury record is not actually the opposite.
There are a few things to consider when you throw around stats like that. First is that Jones played many (relatively) since OGS came, and the whole team have played well since. Secondly, it is quite common that the worst defenders have the best records for conceded goals, simply because they mostly play weaker sides. The only top team Jones has played is Tottenham and conceded 3 goals in the first and zero in the second match.
Wrong decision by the club imo. Phil has always given his all to the club and is a very professional player but his injury history is worrying and has halted him as a player immensely.
Maybe cost us £10-12 million over the next four years, rather than him leaving on a free, likely happy enough with a backup role, and if at any time during this contract we want sell him we should redeem most of this cost, so it certainly makes sense, even if he is a clumsy, injury prone, oaf.
He's good enough for our bench. I'd be shipping out Rojo over Jones.
Lindelof, Jones, Mike, World Class CB is a good mix. Of these Jones is the most versatile for cover at LB/RB.
Lindelof, Jones, Mike, World Class CB is a good mix. Of these Jones is the most versatile for cover at LB/RB.
The comments here are hilarious. Seriously, IDGAF about the club re-signing Jones to be the 4th choice CB. It's not like they are going to say, hey, we just re-signed Jones, we don't need to go after a Koulibaly.
The club views Jones as a 4th choice CB, and I'm ok with that. It's only worrying if they saw him as something more than that---- which they don't.
Jones is NOT an integral piece. He is about as integral as Mangala is for City. He will barely get any match time next year, other than a handful of league cup matches, and maybe a few EPL matches vs bottom clubs.
He isn't going to make or break the club's season next year, just like how Buttner didn't make or break the season in SAF's final year when he made 5 appearances. Jones is roster filler. I'm more concerned about the 15-18 best players on United's roster, than who is the roster filler that will get no playing time.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the club moved him this offseason. Just like how they re-signed Fellaini and then shipped him off 6 months later. If the club do sign a stud CB in the offseason, Jones is now 5th choice CB. He will likely want to leave to get playing time, or else he will have to assume the Mangala role of zero playing time.
My level of outrage for this re-signing is a 0. My level of outrage if the club don't sign a proper CB to pair with Lindelof in the offseason will be significantly higher.
The club views Jones as a 4th choice CB, and I'm ok with that. It's only worrying if they saw him as something more than that---- which they don't.
Jones is NOT an integral piece. He is about as integral as Mangala is for City. He will barely get any match time next year, other than a handful of league cup matches, and maybe a few EPL matches vs bottom clubs.
He isn't going to make or break the club's season next year, just like how Buttner didn't make or break the season in SAF's final year when he made 5 appearances. Jones is roster filler. I'm more concerned about the 15-18 best players on United's roster, than who is the roster filler that will get no playing time.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the club moved him this offseason. Just like how they re-signed Fellaini and then shipped him off 6 months later. If the club do sign a stud CB in the offseason, Jones is now 5th choice CB. He will likely want to leave to get playing time, or else he will have to assume the Mangala role of zero playing time.
My level of outrage for this re-signing is a 0. My level of outrage if the club don't sign a proper CB to pair with Lindelof in the offseason will be significantly higher.
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From a financial perspective it is perfectably reasonable to offer Jones a long term contract instead of prolonging his contract for two years for example. Especially at the wage that is being reported or thereabout.
With this contract Jones will have a value of around 30m at least for the first two years of his contract. At least.
Its completely fine if one thinks that Jones sucks and is not worth one iota even if he is playing for free, but then you are just arguing emotionally.
A players transfer fee/asset value will be quite consistent until he enters the last two years of his contract when it will start depreciate quickly. This is not just applicable to Jones, its just how the math and the market works.
Therefore a 4+1 year contract makes all the sense in the world as long as it is on the level of wage that is being reported.
Giving him a two year extension would just start to depreciate his value from the start.
This is from a purely financial perspective.
You also will tie him up - again if the 50-60k a week that being reported is correct - at a low wage for a long time in a market that will see wages inflated a lot this summer and next.
This is a necessary and mathematic reaction to the inflated transfer market these two last years. It usually takes two or even three years for the wages to correlate to the transfer market just because players are on long term contracts.
Therefore: when the club decided to offer Jones a new contract it makes perfect sense to offer him a long term one at the wage he is on now. He probably got a little bump I am sure btw.
Again: from a purely financial perspective. If you hate Jones as many in here seem to do then you obviously will disagree that the club made the wrong decision. But the length of term of the contract is nothing that you can blame the club for. Quite the opposite.
With this contract Jones will have a value of around 30m at least for the first two years of his contract. At least.
Its completely fine if one thinks that Jones sucks and is not worth one iota even if he is playing for free, but then you are just arguing emotionally.
A players transfer fee/asset value will be quite consistent until he enters the last two years of his contract when it will start depreciate quickly. This is not just applicable to Jones, its just how the math and the market works.
Therefore a 4+1 year contract makes all the sense in the world as long as it is on the level of wage that is being reported.
Giving him a two year extension would just start to depreciate his value from the start.
This is from a purely financial perspective.
You also will tie him up - again if the 50-60k a week that being reported is correct - at a low wage for a long time in a market that will see wages inflated a lot this summer and next.
This is a necessary and mathematic reaction to the inflated transfer market these two last years. It usually takes two or even three years for the wages to correlate to the transfer market just because players are on long term contracts.
Therefore: when the club decided to offer Jones a new contract it makes perfect sense to offer him a long term one at the wage he is on now. He probably got a little bump I am sure btw.
Again: from a purely financial perspective. If you hate Jones as many in here seem to do then you obviously will disagree that the club made the wrong decision. But the length of term of the contract is nothing that you can blame the club for. Quite the opposite.
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