[SadlerMUFC]

How anyone can blame Jones for the goal is a real head scratcher. It was Delot's man and he fell asleep defending him and let him get goal side...

 

[stevoc]

In much the same way as if he did manage to put his injuries behind him and became the player that SAF and some other managers thought he would there would still be those posting on this forum maintaining that he is not good enough. Such is life. When we form an opinion we always look for instances/events that confirm our choice rarely for those that would alter it.

So if he 1, somehow managed to put a decade of constant injuries behind him 2, became the best player in Manchester United's history as Ferguson suggested he could and 3, if somehow both those things happened you reckon there would be some still saying he isn't good enough.

Be honest mate how likely is even one of those things happening never mind all three?

What is very likely though as evidenced by the last 8 years on here is no matter how many times he gets injured and no matter how good/decent/mediocre/poor he is during the rare spells he is fit. There will be people who always think. If we just give him one more year, if he gets over his injuries, if he becomes the player Ferguson thought he would. If, if and if.

The time for ifs has clearly past and now is the time for when. As in when are we going to let him go.

 

[Virgil]

So if he 1, somehow managed to put a decade of constant injuries behind him 2, became the best player in Manchester United's history as Ferguson suggested he could and 3, if somehow both those things happened you reckon there would be some still saying he isn't good enough.

Be honest mate how likely is even one of those things happening never mind all three?

What is very likely though as evidenced by the last 8 years on here is no matter how many times he gets injured and no matter how good/decent/mediocre/poor he is during the rare spells he is fit. There will be people who always think. If we just give him one more year, if he gets over his injuries, if he becomes the player Ferguson thought he would. If, if and if.

The time for ifs has clearly past and now is the time for when. As in when are we going to let him go.

I am not defending him per se...... just that as some others have said, in respect of the goal we conceded against Brighton, to blame him for the goal is both perverse and quite frankly illogical. The argument for it being his fault is holding him up as a player to a level of standard not expected of any other player in the team. I see the same with Chris Smalling. He is either loved or loathed and both extremes are subject to illogical claims as to his brilliance or uselessness. If I am honest I suspect that many of Phil Jones detractors are actually Chris Smalling supporters and vice versa. With advocates of both recognising that there ain't room in the squad (particularly if we do sign another CB in the summer) for the two of them so both sides hype up their favourite and rubbish the other.

All somewhat childish in my view but understandable. As I inferred originally its human nature. Sad really but there you are.

 

[limerickcitykid]

No doubt about that.

And those same people will still be coming on here and saying "Well apart from the own goal and the penalty he gave away he was fine".

This isn't the Bailly thread.

 

[stevoc]

I am not defending him per se...... just that as some others have said, in respect of the goal we conceded against Brighton, to blame him for the goal is both perverse and quite frankly illogical. The argument for it being his fault is holding him up as a player to a level of standard not expected of any other player in the team. I see the same with Chris Smalling. He is either loved or loathed and both extremes are subject to illogical claims as to his brilliance or uselessness. If I am honest I suspect that many of Phil Jones detractors are actually Chris Smalling supporters and vice versa. With advocates of both recognising that there ain't room in the squad (particularly if we do sign another CB in the summer) for the two of them so both sides hype up their favourite and rubbish the other.

All somewhat childish in my view but understandable. As I inferred originally its human nature. Sad really but there you are.

Well yeah there's definitely some truth to that but regardless of whether or not people like him i imagine the vast majority of fans myself included would be delighted if he got over his injuries and suddenly became a top defender.

But it's unlikely on both counts at this stage and it's not like most fans haven't been patient, he's been here for almost a decade.

 

[Johan07]

We still have people talking about if he can stay fit.

It's been 8 years! It's never going to happen!

He has missed 5 games with injury so far this season. Thats nothing.
He missed 13 games the season before. Thats nothing out of the ordinary.
He missed 23 the season before that. Thats bad, but involved a pretty serious knee injury.
This and last season is not that bad and he actually seems to be moving in the right direction.
But keep on pushing this neverending narrative... Its tiresome.

 

[Johan07]

This is our CBs injury records the current and last season:
Rojo 34 games
Bailly 26 games
Jones 18 games
Smalling 8 games
Lindelof ZERO games which is kinda special.
(Aldeweireld 29 games, just as a comparison)

Jones has actually been doing OK (not Lindelof-great) injury-wise lately.
But still people here goes on and on about him being a sicknote.

 

[sam147]

How interesting. When his contract is running out he seems to keep fit. Still can't iron out the 1-2 brainless errors every game. Hope he doesn't get a new contract. We need better.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I agree he is not starting XI quality, but he is a good back up. Before we rid of him we should get rid of Bailly and Rojo, he is a reliable back up defender, of course I don't wan't him starting everygame but compare the back up options the top teams have, and they are mostly awful. I think he is our third best center back, and until some youngster can fill that role he is a needed squad player.

 

[billybee99]

He has missed 5 games with injury so far this season. Thats nothing.
He missed 13 games the season before. Thats nothing out of the ordinary.
He missed 23 the season before that. Thats bad, but involved a pretty serious knee injury.
This and last season is not that bad and he actually seems to be moving in the right direction.
But keep on pushing this neverending narrative... Its tiresome.

Narrative? So you think Phil Jones has a good fitness record? 13 games is a lot. It is not "normal". I remember a sky sports article that said he was 6th on on the list of most games missed in the Premier League over a 6 year span from 2011 through 2017. Add another 13 last year and 5 (and counting) this year and it's looks pretty bleak. He has a very poor fitness record. You are the one spinning a narrative. I have no problem keeping him around as a substitute in the future but let's be honest about things and not revise history.

 

[Johan07]

How interesting. When his contract is running out he seems to keep fit. Still can't iron out the 1-2 brainless errors every game. Hope he doesn't get a new contract. We need better.

Yes, I am sure that is why. What a moronic comment. With all due respect.

 

[AndyJ1985]

We have a lot of hoarders on this forum. People who don't want to get rid of anyone, yet want to us to sign new players.

 

[ravi2]

He has missed 5 games with injury so far this season. Thats nothing.
He missed 13 games the season before. Thats nothing out of the ordinary.
He missed 23 the season before that. Thats bad, but involved a pretty serious knee injury.
This and last season is not that bad and he actually seems to be moving in the right direction.
But keep on pushing this neverending narrative... Its tiresome.

Are you Phil Jones's agent or something?

What narrative are you talking about? The reality is he has is not a UTD standard CB and never will be at this point.
The sooner he is out of here the better.

 

[Johan07]

Narrative? So you think Phil Jones has a good fitness record? 13 games is a lot. It is not "normal". I remember a sky sports article that said he was 6th on on the list of most games missed in the Premier League over a 6 year span from 2011 through 2017. Add another 13 last year and 5 and counting this year and it's looks pretty bleak. He has a very poor fitness record. You are the one spinning a narrative. I have no problem keeping him around as a substitute but let's be honest about things and not revise history.

To be fair: So has Smalling and he is managed to stay injury free lately.
I do not think its very relevant at all to look at a players injury record further back than 2 or 3 years.
With Jones its also a fact that he has never had a longer injury break than 59 days. Which is not very long. He has a lot of small injuries in his youth though, but thats not really a worry. If he had torn an ACL or had recurring major hamstring tears I would have been more worried. If he continues to stay this injury free he will be fine.
And its not a narrative, these are facts. I was actually surprised myself when I checked the stats, because he gets so much crap here so one would think that he would actually just had been available to play 18 games these two last seasons. Not the other way around.

 

[ravi2]

How interesting. When his contract is running out he seems to keep fit. Still can't iron out the 1-2 brainless errors every game. Hope he doesn't get a new contract. We need better.

He stays fit when his contract is running out and Fellaini gets injured, we cant win sometimes.

 

[Johan07]

Are you Phil Jones's agent or something?

What narrative are you talking about? The reality is he has is not a UTD standard CB and never will be at this point.
The sooner he is out of here the better.

If he is United-quality or not long-term is another issue. His injury record is not that bad over the last two seasons though.

 

[Mcking]

This is our CBs injury records the current and last season:
Rojo 34 games
Bailly 26 games
Jones 18 games
Smalling 8 games
Lindelof ZERO games which is kinda special.
(Aldeweireld 29 games, just as a comparison)

Jones has actually been doing OK (not Lindelof-great) injury-wise lately.
But still people here goes on and on about him being a sicknote.

I'm convinced Lindelof missed some games this season. He got injured against Palace iirc.

 

[Johan07]

I'm convinced Lindelof missed some games this season. He got injured against Palace iirc.

I agree, I dont think its completely correct either. Sometimes it might be a gray line between available or unavailable (injured/healthy) as well. Those stats are from Transfermarkt.

 

[Mcking]

I agree, I dont think its completely correct either. Sometimes it might be a gray line between available or unavailable (injured/healthy) as well. Those stats are from Transfermarkt.

He missed Young Boys, Southampton, Fulham, Valencia and Arsenal. Transfermarkt for some reason didn't record him as injured for those games. Went with 'not in squad' instead. Transfermarkt injury stats are not always accurate because of that.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Narrative? So you think Phil Jones has a good fitness record? 13 games is a lot. It is not "normal". I remember a sky sports article that said he was 6th on on the list of most games missed in the Premier League over a 6 year span from 2011 through 2017. Add another 13 last year and 5 (and counting) this year and it's looks pretty bleak. He has a very poor fitness record. You are the one spinning a narrative. I have no problem keeping him around as a substitute in the future but let's be honest about things and not revise history.

No point even bothering to argue with someone trying to defend Phil Jones fitness record.

His injury record in his 8 years at Utd is appalling, that's just a fact.

 

[sam147]

Yes, I am sure that is why. What a moronic comment. With all due respect.

With all due respect. Facts are facts. You do not know him personally nor do I. We can only judge on facts. And the fact is his injury record is as bad as your opinion. His contract is running out and now he wants to keep fit and try to perform. Manchester United is his job. No other club will pay him the wages we pay him so he is trying his hardest now to get a contract. Once he has got it he will be back to being injured again. You need more proof or are you that naive? Take a look at James Wilson. The used to be prospect on big wages who's not leaving the club because of wages and now has to be loaned out.

 

[Johan07]

With all due respect. Facts are facts. You do not know him personally nor do I. We can only judge on facts. And the fact is his injury record is as bad as your opinion. His contract is running out and now he wants to keep fit and try to perform. Manchester United is his job. No other club will pay him the wages we pay him so he is trying his hardest now to get a contract. Once he has got it he will be back to being injured again. You need more proof or are you that naive? Take a look at James Wilson. The used to be prospect on big wages who's not leaving the club because of wages and now has to be loaned out.

He is on 50k a week mate.

 

[sam147]

He is on 50k a week mate.

Thank you for proving my point. 50k. And Alderweireld is on 75k. What a farce.

 

[Red Royal]

With all due respect. Facts are facts. You do not know him personally nor do I. We can only judge on facts. And the fact is his injury record is as bad as your opinion. His contract is running out and now he wants to keep fit and try to perform. Manchester United is his job. No other club will pay him the wages we pay him so he is trying his hardest now to get a contract. Once he has got it he will be back to being injured again. You need more proof or are you that naive? Take a look at James Wilson. The used to be prospect on big wages who's not leaving the club because of wages and now has to be loaned out.

I think many on the caf think Jones has a number of faults; however I doubt that Jones wants to stay fit just for his contracts sake. I am sure he hates being injured so often. Seriously do you not think our physios would see through that anyway?

 

[sam147]

I think many on the caf think Jones has a number of faults; however I doubt that Jones wants to stay fit just for his contracts sake. I am sure he hates being injured so often. Seriously do you not think our physios would see through that anyway?

To be honest, I have no faith in how the clubs run. Fellaini is injured during the transfer window. Martial was 'ill' during Christmas was it. The same fitness team allowed Lukaku to put on a lot of weight. I don't care for Jones. Sooner he is out the club the better.

 

[Doracle]

Thank you for proving my point. 50k. And Alderweireld is on 75k. What a farce.

You are proving his point, not the other way around. Even Spurs, with their notoriously stingy wages, pay all three of their regular CBs more than Jones is currently paid. I’m sure he’s looking for a wage increase, as he’s currently being paid significantly less than all our other defenders, but his wages are well within the scope of the majority of premier league clubs. West Ham have Winston Reid on £70k per week for example.

 

[sam147]

You are proving his point, not the other way around. Even Spurs, with their notoriously stingy wages, pay all three of their regular CBs more than Jones is currently paid. I’m sure he’s looking for a wage increase, as he’s currently being paid significantly less than all our other defenders, but his wages are well within the scope of the majority of premier league clubs. West Ham have Winston Reid on £70k per week for example.

Their regular CBs stay fit longer than Jones and are 10x the player. Which club would want Phil Jones on 50k a week to be injured for most the season, then put in 2 good performances, then make a stupid error and then back to the injuries again. Our fans have seen this cycle many times but still support him.

 

[In Rainbows]

There is no reason to renew Jones' contract. We're going to bring in a CB this summer and Tuanzebe will be reintegrated into the squad. Someone has to give way, and seeing as Jones' contract runs out this summer, it makes the most sense to just let it run down.

 

[Johan07]

Their regular CBs stay fit longer than Jones and are 10x the player. Which club would want Phil Jones on 50k a week to be injured for most the season, then put in 2 good performances, then make a stupid error and then back to the injuries again. Our fans have seen this cycle many times but still support him.

Im sorry, but you are making no sense.
Aldeweireld will be on 200k something this summer because Spurs cant afford to keep him him and he has played his release clause well.
He and Jones has one thing in common: they are on contracts that were signed 4-5 years ago. Therefore they are both still very cheap. There is a reason why we have let his contract run out and I am pretty sure that it has nothing to do with us not wanting to renew it.
If you really are asking the question which clubs would take Jones on 50k a week in the PL the answer is probably everyone except maybe City. Hell, even half of the Championship sides would take him for that.
And again: Aldeweireld has missed 29 games due to injuries the last two seasons. Jones has missed 18. Jones is also three years younger.
You are making no sense.
EDIT
Vertonghen has also missed 18 games due to injury the last two seasons; same as Jones. Again: Toby has missed 29. So your claim about Spurs CBs being fitter than Jones could not be further from the truth.

 

[stevoc]

He has missed 5 games with injury so far this season. Thats nothing.
He missed 13 games the season before. Thats nothing out of the ordinary.
He missed 23 the season before that. Thats bad, but involved a pretty serious knee injury.
This and last season is not that bad and he actually seems to be moving in the right direction.
But keep on pushing this neverending narrative... Its tiresome.

I expect the never ending ''narrative'' will end when Jones never ending injuries end.

He was injured 7 times last season and 3 times this season already, call me sceptical but that doesn't seem like someone who is moving in the right direction away from being injury prone.

Plus i wouldn't even trust those injury stats if you got them on transfermarkt they're not the most reliable.

 

[A-man]

He has been here 8 seasons and had numerous chances. A commanding centre-back would have won the header and not conceded against the run of play. Even in Tottenham game kane escaped past him so easily, de gea and Matic bailed him out on many instances. I think he should be the first one out of the door followed by Rojo.

There are CB who would have won that header and saved a goal, but Jones is not good enough in the air and tbh most CB could lose a header like that. I agree with the rest and I too think it is time for him and Rojo to leave for one better and one younger player.

He and Rojo both need moving to be frank.
He just isnt good enough and more importantly like Rojo almost never available when needed.
Bring in one top notch CB and promote Tuanzebe to be back up.

I think he has been ok lately but agree. Now is a good timing also to bring in one experienced and one young, mixed with Smalling and Lindelof and if they decide to continue with Bailly (which I think is a good idea).

All the stats from Tranfermarkt: I have seen it is really random if they log shorter injuries, 1-5 matches.

 

[ravi2]

Im sorry, but you are making no sense.
Aldeweireld will be on 200k something this summer because Spurs cant afford to keep him him and he has played his release clause well.
He and Jones has one thing in common: they are on contracts that were signed 4-5 years ago. Therefore they are both still very cheap. There is a reason why we have let his contract run out and I am pretty sure that it has nothing to do with us not wanting to renew it.
If you really are asking the question which clubs would take Jones on 50k a week in the PL the answer is probably everyone except maybe City. Hell, even half of the Championship sides would take him for that.
And again: Aldeweireld has missed 29 games due to injuries the last two seasons. Jones has missed 18. Jones is also three years younger.
You are making no sense.
EDIT
Vertonghen has also missed 18 games due to injury the last two seasons; same as Jones. Again: Toby has missed 29. So your claim about Spurs CBs being fitter than Jones could not be further from the truth.

Stop defending Jones, he is a mediocre player with a terrible injury record.

 

[RussellWilson]

What was that brain dead hospital pass to Pereria all about? You have two closing you down so I'll play a bobbling ball to you.

 

[mewnew11]

Dumb as a duck. Matic kept shouting and signalling Jones to move the ball forwards but he just kept jogging and passing it to either Jones or Shaw. Just slows the game down and jumps all over the forward rewarding them with free kicks

We need a defender who is not afraid to pass like lindeloff. He has been 8 years at the club

 

[Adisa]

Bird brain.

 

[Patrick08]

Dumb as a duck. Matic kept shouting and signalling Jones to move the ball forwards but he just kept jogging and passing it to either Jones or Shaw. Just slows the game down and jumps all over the forward rewarding them with free kicks

We need a defender who is not afraid to pass like lindeloff. He has been 8 years at the club

Was taking too much time on the ball and always sideways.

 

[Mainoldo]

Whatever we do. Don't renew his contract. I wanted him out from the final and it still stands.

 

[lex talionis]

What was that brain dead hospital pass to Pereria all about? You have two closing you down so I'll play a bobbling ball to you.

Agreed. Just saw the replay again. Why the fook would Jones even think about making that pass?

 

[Litch]

Always involved in some way in every major feck up....

 

[Verminator]

Hospital ball giving, pirouetting wanker.
Just bring him down instead of Greek dancing you arsehole.