He definitely died his hair at the last Euros thinking he’d be the star, don’t remember him doing anything, the press loves the obvious Gascoigne link at least
Phil Foden - What Is His Potential?
- Thread starter Davs
- Start date
If pundits like Gary Neville and Micah Richards didn’t go on about Foden to the degree they do this thread would probably be smaller. But people listen, people in this thread have listened constantly for years about how incredible and magnificent at everything Phil Foden is and the simple fact is he just isn’t. Absolutely not a generational talent and was absolutely never going to be Englands most important player this Euros. I understand Richards cos he played for city and is mates with Foden but can’t quite work it out with Neville. I know he loves the occasional city loving but still.
Au contraire, bud. I have the best opinions in the world, it's been certified by the International Football Opinions Committee, the chief regulator of online sporting spats.
I chair that committee, you should have realized that certificate was fake by the fact it was written in crayon instead of ink and the tears of Barcelona "fans" collected in the summers of 2020 and 2021
"No world where Foden shouldn't start"
"He's the best player in the Premier League"
"He's great on the left"
"He's miles better on the left than Rashford/Gordon/etc"
Where are these overconfident posters now?
It was an absolutely awful tournament for Foden.
It isn't his fault, though, but he is the textbook system player. He's great in City in his little 10 yard zone near the opposition box, where he receives, turns, and shoots..but expecting him to be a touchline winger, or a runner, or carry the ball 30 meters on the counter attack, especially with having Kane in your team, the best striker in the world for runner type wingers...is just madness.
It's also not his fault, but he is light years away from being the player the general consensus makes him out to be. Great player in certain game states, in certain areas of the pitch, but one of Southgate's biggest mistakes in this tournament was insisting with someone him on the left wing. He also needs the conditions to be close to perfect in order for him to show what he is capable of. Take a look at Mainoo or Saka, for example. They are simply the type of players who don't need world class structure, world class environments, they can be great players without them. They both proved that for both club and country. Foden has only been able to be effective in the best club side ever assembled. Southgate should've ignored the noise, the PFA award, and made him an impact sub, instead of shoehorning him into the side. There are at least 5 English players out there who are much, much better left-wingers than him, especially in the defensive setup Southgate went with that requires a lot of pace, power, ball-carrying ability, and transition threat from at least one of your wingers. Rashford, Gordon, Grealish, and Sterling all would've been infinitely better options. Even Palmer and Saka, two left-footers would've done so much better there due to the abilities they possess that Foden doesn't.
At #10, Bellingham and Palmer are better. On the right wing, Saka and Palmer are better. Admittedly it would've been unlucky for a player like him not to be able to start for his national team, especially after having the best season of his career so far, but that's just how talented this crop of players are. Team balance and roles are more important than making a place for a player no matter what.
"He's the best player in the Premier League"
"He's great on the left"
"He's miles better on the left than Rashford/Gordon/etc"
Where are these overconfident posters now?
It was an absolutely awful tournament for Foden.
It isn't his fault, though, but he is the textbook system player. He's great in City in his little 10 yard zone near the opposition box, where he receives, turns, and shoots..but expecting him to be a touchline winger, or a runner, or carry the ball 30 meters on the counter attack, especially with having Kane in your team, the best striker in the world for runner type wingers...is just madness.
It's also not his fault, but he is light years away from being the player the general consensus makes him out to be. Great player in certain game states, in certain areas of the pitch, but one of Southgate's biggest mistakes in this tournament was insisting with someone him on the left wing. He also needs the conditions to be close to perfect in order for him to show what he is capable of. Take a look at Mainoo or Saka, for example. They are simply the type of players who don't need world class structure, world class environments, they can be great players without them. They both proved that for both club and country. Foden has only been able to be effective in the best club side ever assembled. Southgate should've ignored the noise, the PFA award, and made him an impact sub, instead of shoehorning him into the side. There are at least 5 English players out there who are much, much better left-wingers than him, especially in the defensive setup Southgate went with that requires a lot of pace, power, ball-carrying ability, and transition threat from at least one of your wingers. Rashford, Gordon, Grealish, and Sterling all would've been infinitely better options. Even Palmer and Saka, two left-footers would've done so much better there due to the abilities they possess that Foden doesn't.
At #10, Bellingham and Palmer are better. On the right wing, Saka and Palmer are better. Admittedly it would've been unlucky for a player like him not to be able to start for his national team, especially after having the best season of his career so far, but that's just how talented this crop of players are. Team balance and roles are more important than making a place for a player no matter what.
Strange season for him. Unreal domestic season, unbelievably shite tournament
Another ineffective selfish annoying player.
Despite obviously being one of the best players in the premier league in a Pep Guardiola system, he was quite obviously one of the worst performers for England.
More kids than goals/assists whilst on duty for a player who played left-wing/number 10 is not great.
We’ve been here before, and the shoehorning needs to stop. You can’t carry Kane, Bellingham and Foden from the start of a game. They’re all good enough in their own right to play the way they want to play, but it’s to the detriment of the team and the only way you control it is via selection.
More kids than goals/assists whilst on duty for a player who played left-wing/number 10 is not great.
We’ve been here before, and the shoehorning needs to stop. You can’t carry Kane, Bellingham and Foden from the start of a game. They’re all good enough in their own right to play the way they want to play, but it’s to the detriment of the team and the only way you control it is via selection.
Shined in Pep system. But showed for what it is in international football that is inferior to club football. He is an average player with limited capacity. Unable to influence games. Arrogant. Entitled. Diva. Thought for the whole tournament that as EPL POTY he is somehow entitled to free kicks, nagging, hand waiving etc. Worst performing England player in the tournament and Southgate is an idiot for playing him ahead of Palmer.
Some players are good when being carried by a good team and system. This is Foden.
Moved Bellingham to the left in order to “build the team around Foden” and that’s the result, ghost
Over rated. A goodish player and nothing more.
So effectively the British bojan
I don't think carried is the right word, despite me being the biggest anti-Foden propagandist on here.
He is being utilized properly at City, put in areas where he can excel, and do the things he's effective at and can excel at.
For England, Southgate puts him into roles that he absolutely isn't suited to and is simply missing the required things to be good at, in order for him to be good and effective in said roles. Southgate rendered Foden and the whole attack ineffective with this simple decision. You put Rashford or Gordon on the left with Kane and Saka completing the attacking trio, and you have the perfect and most balanced attacking trio you could ever ask for. Put Foden there and the whole system breaks down basically.
Interesting that there was no comment at all after the SF.
He had a good 45 minutes in the semi to be fair, shite again in the second half though sadly as he always appears to be when his team isn’t hugely dominant. Palmer outshone him in the semi too, despite barely getting minutes.
0 goals 0 assists despite starting all 7 games.
The issue is, everyone had a pretty bad tournament but Bellingham managed to get 2 goals and 1 assist. Kane scored 3 times. Saka involved in a few goals too. Palmer barely got any minutes but registered goals and assists. It's quite an achievement to not contribute anything of substance all tournament for an attacking player.
He's a good player, but Southgate should have been brave and dropped him as he was contributing least out the front 4 and playing Gordon would have brought much better balance to the attacking play.
Most of the vitriol directed towards the players should go towards the manager to be fair. Sometimes a player just isn't playing well despite his best efforts. It's up to the manager to try something different instead of sticking with something that isn't working, dropping a player who isn't delivering shouldn't be seen as such a big deal.
Olmo for Spain.
Have to find a way to get Foden playing like that for England on a consistent basis.
Have to find a way to get Foden playing like that for England on a consistent basis.
Abysmal tournament from him. Such an irrelevant player - keeps dropping into pockets of spaces belonging to superior players and linking up / staying relevant, for the sake of it. And him and Saka don’t work - you need balance in a team and given Saka is clearly better, Foden should have been dropped for the direct wing option a long time ago.
That’s the issue. England don’t “need to find a way”. Aside from building a better style of play, they should stop pandering to individuals and build a team. Olmo is a 10 for Spain - that’s Bellinghams role for England.
Bellingham can play deeper as he did for Dortmund.
Tonight he was out on the left. Generally from this tournament he needed to calm down a bit, was constantly on the ground asking for fouls and also trying to dribble past 2-3 constantly. He was also gassed in second halves and that problem won't be going away given he'll be playing World Club Cup for Real Madrid next summer.
Drop Bellingham then
Sure if England want to keep getting dominated in the big knockout games
Foden doesn’t justify all these mental gymnastics. Pick between them and move. For a team that relies on individualistic play rather than controlled possession to not have a direct winger who stretches the game is silly.
Outside of worse attitude and personality yes.
Hampered by a cowardly “vibes” manager so it’s hard to know his real potential on the international stage. Until England have a proper coach/manager most of the team will be underperforming in internationals.
He's had 3 tournaments now as a first choice player for England and he has I believe 1 goal.
To make it 2-0 vs Wales in the final group game at the World Cup.
He's nearing 50 caps and has done almost nothing in an England shirt. He should no longer be in the first 11, he's consistently dogshit.
To make it 2-0 vs Wales in the final group game at the World Cup.
He's nearing 50 caps and has done almost nothing in an England shirt. He should no longer be in the first 11, he's consistently dogshit.
Offcourse people are going to exaggerate a lot by calling him overrated because he's had a bad tournament, but he's clearly a very good player and City's 2nd most important player last season. Also, every forward player for England in this tournament were either just average or bad.
However, i've noticed that most of Manchester City offensive players don't have the same output (be it in goals or performances) with their country as they do with City, and I think Pep's system might have something to do with that.
However, i've noticed that most of Manchester City offensive players don't have the same output (be it in goals or performances) with their country as they do with City, and I think Pep's system might have something to do with that.
Might have something to with the fact they go from a World Class coach who knows what he is doing to a donkey who is only has the job due to small moments of brilliance from his players. Won't even mention the teams they have faced getting deep into tournaments.
I'd say it's more down to the safe style of the manager than the players. Of course players don't have the same output when the manager fears for his life that they concede.
Not sure how you worked that one out.
Agree. He struggles to really impose himself on games for England. A goal every 10 games for someone who does no real defensive work and isn’t that creative with his passing is problematic.
I do think it’s probably one or other of him or Bellingham in the 10 role for big games (and Bellingham has the edge for me), with Foden otherwise being understudy for Saka on the right wing.
Palmer is a better RW and 10 than Foden. At least in a system which requires initiative from the attackers rather than overcoached pass and move.
This guy has some of the best PR I've ever seen. I've still yet to hear one pundit mention how one footed he is. Hopefully the next manager will have the balls to drop him.
Pep is considered by a lot of people as the best and he has a specific way of setting up his team, their positions, etc... These players aren't coached the same way obviously when they play for their countries, and they don't have the same type of players around them, which i think may affect their output.
Most left footed players are very one footed.
As for dropping him, no coach will drop him as long as he keeps performing very well for City.
It will be interesting to see how he bounces back from this horrible tournament he's had though.
Do you have any real contribution or arguments?Whooooosh!
You don't have to agree with the point I was making, but it doesn't seem too far fetched since some players become system players or become very less effective when they're not in a system they're used to.
Cool. Most left footed players aren't touted as generational talents. Nor should Foden.
If Saka and Palmer also continue to perform very well for their clubs, then you can only start so many attackers. Foden shouldn't be starting for England as he's by far the most limited out of those 3.