Interesting point, why you say this?
Phil Foden - What Is His Potential?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) review both the Everton and Bodø/Glimt victories at Old Trafford. Listen to the guys discuss 2 wins and 7 goals in the last week, analyse of the Amorim formation, focus on Amad and how he is playing, and also take a look at Hojlund, Rashford & Zirkzee – who starts v Arsenal?
Interesting point, why you say this?
last 25 yards type forward vs attacking playmaker
To be honest - this is why I don't rate ex Guardiola players as highly as others do but everyone's allowed their own opinion on football & how highly they are rated to them.
Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Rodri, De Bryune, Busquets, Daniel Alves, Walker, Stones, Pique etc.
All incredibly lucky to have been coached under Guardiola and his tactics making them better than they are an improving their game consistently due to his coaching increasing their IQ & overall ability as a footballer.
I don't get mind blown by another Guardiola Wonder Player - half of his coaching is making players better than they actually are even if they are not managed directly in a match such as in an international match.
Sterling was once regarded as the best English player in the world just because he played under Guardiola.
Guardiola's tactical influence will continue at Man City for a few years after he leaves as it did at Barcelona where Luis Enrique took over a Guardiola influenced team and continued that trajectory. Then it will slowly start waining off.
All these people laughing at Foden being shit and overhyped is just because he is an English player made to look better in a fantastic system, a system that not only influenced his team but arguably the whole world of opposition football -
But to me it's the same with every player & not just Foden.
Overhyped players due to the ability of Guardiola. Every single one.
People talk about De Bryune like he was the best attacking midfielder in the last decade but to me; even if its by 1% or 10 or 20%; I know without Guardiola he would be much more less of a legend than he is viewed now.
Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Rodri, De Bryune, Busquets, Daniel Alves, Walker, Stones, Pique etc.
All incredibly lucky to have been coached under Guardiola and his tactics making them better than they are an improving their game consistently due to his coaching increasing their IQ & overall ability as a footballer.
I don't get mind blown by another Guardiola Wonder Player - half of his coaching is making players better than they actually are even if they are not managed directly in a match such as in an international match.
Sterling was once regarded as the best English player in the world just because he played under Guardiola.
Guardiola's tactical influence will continue at Man City for a few years after he leaves as it did at Barcelona where Luis Enrique took over a Guardiola influenced team and continued that trajectory. Then it will slowly start waining off.
All these people laughing at Foden being shit and overhyped is just because he is an English player made to look better in a fantastic system, a system that not only influenced his team but arguably the whole world of opposition football -
But to me it's the same with every player & not just Foden.
Overhyped players due to the ability of Guardiola. Every single one.
People talk about De Bryune like he was the best attacking midfielder in the last decade but to me; even if its by 1% or 10 or 20%; I know without Guardiola he would be much more less of a legend than he is viewed now.
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Uh? Sterling was never regarded as the best English player in the world? He was highly rated for England - because he carried them on his shoulders to a Euro final - playing nothing like he did at City, I might add (in fact that might be what caused him to ultimately leave City)
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/is-sterling-the-best-english-player-at-the-moment.442725/
Not sure who was better than him, maybe Kane? But still trophyless
Compared to the centre or the right, I wouldn't say it's optimal for him. But he has 20 goals and 11 assists from the left wing for City - or a goal or assist every 125 minutes.
Now part of the challenge with international football is being able to overcome the lack of glue that players have at club level so he has to take responsibility for that. Equally however part of the management challenge in international football is getting the best out of your players. And Southgate's hopeless handling of the left flank over the last couple of years does help to explain the difference in output. He has frequently used right-footed left-backs who have little to no experience of playing on the left, have no idea how to overlap, or underlap, or how to open up play on their bad side. . I thought it was quite telling that Carsley spotted this issue straight away and against Finland the left flank was the most cohesive part of the team. And that was with the handicap of a right-footed left-back in Trent, but recognising who would be the right type of flank partner in Grealish to build on Trent's technical strengths and complement his movement and positioning.
So in one part of the team there is a broken left flank and alongside that the attack has felt broken for much of that time as well. Everyone clustered into the 10 space, nobody stretched the lines (until they make the killer subs that, for example, got them over line against the Dutch), with central midfielders who are often too sluggish in punching the ball forwards.
Basically he'd need a good system on the left to operate well, while in the middle or on the right it's more straightforward as he can more easily pull out individual pieces of decisive quality.
I would say comparing Palmer/Saka is a bit wild. Palmer/Foden I think are much more similar, one I think is simply much more confident/arrogant/expressive etc. and has not allowed himself to become a (and I hate this word but I think it applies) system player.
He left City cause he knew his time there would be on the bench going forward. Pep had for whatever reason decided he didn't fancy him anymore as he sometimes randomly does to player. Pep leaving him out of 3 of the last 4 CL game starting XI's and also put him on the bench for the 2 final games in the title push made him realize he was no longer first choice. From the start of April one he played really none of the big game except the draw with Liverpool cause that was 3 days before the Atletico 2nd leg.
There's truth in what you say, especially regarding the full-back dynamics, but a left-footer deployed on the left like Foden will still have way less use of an over- or underlapper full-back than a right-footer would, because those players can actually cut in onto their preferred foot and shoot after creating some space for themselves if they opt not to give the ball to the overlapping full-back, for example. For Foden, this is obviously something he can only do on the other side of the pitch.
Also, whilst it's very true in my opinion, that he's much more comfortable in the middle or on the right, he's still not a "Give me the ball and I'll make something happen" type of player, if the team is struggling to impose themselves on the opponent in the final third. He's a "I'll finish the job created for me by the well-oiled system" type of player...which is fine, but like @giorno mentioned above, it has led to a misconception, and the total misprofiling of what Foden actually is as a player. In my opinion, he's much more of a second-striker or false 9 than anything else. I also don't see a future for him centrally at City as their main creative hub and as their KDB predecessor. He's just not that type of player and I'm pretty sure City will get someone in from the market, if they'll want a direct replacement for the Belgian.
I always thought Sterling was allowed to leave because of Haaland's arrival. The Norwegian simply requires different types of wingers than what Sterling is.
Doku and Sávio has been added since then, to help against low-blocks and to feed Haaland.
Grealish has been turned into a ball-retention winger and not someone who has to focus on taking risks and scoring goals.
Silva is also one of the best ball-retention players in the world.
Sterling was someone who had different strengths IMO and a winger who also liked to be on the end of chances, make runs behind the defence, etc. I think he was the least suited winger in your squad to be turned into a player that's mostly just focused on creating chances for the striker and to keep the ball more often than previously. You also had Mahrez and still have Foden that offer something different.
I think Pep would've still fancied Sterling if he wasn't given the best poacher and goalscorer in the world, but the team dynamics changed with Haaland's arrival and the main focus for your wingers became providing Haaland with as many chances as possible. He would've taken goals away from Haaland in the same way I think Foden takes goals away from him.
This is what I thought too.
City stopped using inverted forwards like Sterling & Mahrez and slowly starting building a creative group of players outside to get the best out of Haaland.
Bernado Silva out wide, Grealish, De Bruyne & Foden all would try create for Haaland primarily.
The whole Sane, Sterling, Jesus, mahrez type of attack slowly got turned over to getting the best our of a traditional number 9 with creative players from all channels.
Sterling himself said that his playtime being limited was the biggest reason and he couldn't afford to waste any of his career on the bench. Pep had left his style behind before Erling arrived. He was a sub in 5 of the 6 most important games in the run in. Something in Pep changed towards him and tactically after the 1st Atletico game.
Pep had decided on more control on the wings in the big games before Erling, he valued the level of pressing from Bernardo, Phil and Grealish plus the control they brought more than Sterlings nose for goals. Basically Pep became more cautious and Sterling was the sacrifice.
Anderson was better
Or at least he didn't crumble under a penalty shootout pressure.
Yeah, now I get what you've meant.
What's happened to this lad? He was scoring for fun last season but now has zero goals from 8 League appearances this season and only 3 in 14 in all comps
The kid’s overrated.
His head has completely gone after failing at the Euros. Trying to hard. Needs a good run of games and a few tap ins to get some confidence.
Quiet thread these days!
Why is "England's best talent" not performing as soon as he has to play in a struggling side, probably for the first time in his career?
Why is "England's best talent" not performing as soon as he has to play in a struggling side, probably for the first time in his career?
He's played over 40 games for England and barely had a good game for them, but was always outstanding for the U21s.
Exactly, he has only ever performed when City are doing well, which is not surprising really. I have never looked at him and thought, he will dig a team out of trouble here.
The thing is though, you know how English media are going to twist this.. look how well decorated he is, won 5 PL titles, CL, and all the other trophies.
Part of it was down to Southgate not finding a good role for him. However he's the definition of a system player who cannot thrive in suboptimal circumstances as @romufc says. England also has superior players in all attacking positions, so he really shouldn't even be a starter for them.
Whilst we can talk about Southgate not finding a good role for him, tbf to him, he did try. He was used in RW, CAM and LW under Southgate and never looked good in any position.
This is also another issue, I dont think Foden himself can tell you his best position. All top players generally have a position they play 80% of their games in, even at City, we have seen him LW, RW, CAM, CF, CM and whilst last season he had a good season, again he was played everywhere without a set position.
People were whispering it even last season when he was playing very well that he’s a system footballer. He’s picture perfect in the Guardiola super team that was a well oiled machine. But what he isn’t is a player who can single-handedly put a whole team on his back consistently and win matches on his own if conditions aren’t ideal around him.
He’s not on the Salah, De Bruyne, Hazard, Palmer, or Saka level imo. These are attacking midfielders you could put in any team and they’d look amazing. Foden is a cog in a machine.
He’s not on the Salah, De Bruyne, Hazard, Palmer, or Saka level imo. These are attacking midfielders you could put in any team and they’d look amazing. Foden is a cog in a machine.
Imo it’s not really about RW, CAM, LW or whatnot, but the players he’s playing with and their roles. Kane dropping deep, Bellingham being in the same space, too many individuals that weren’t really suited to playing together, it was a bit of a mess. I think Southgate would’ve been better off picking combinations of players that should play together. Haven’t watched City this season, so no idea what Foden is up to.
Considering the players you name have pulled up a combined total of zero trees at international level, I'm assuming you mean only club football.
In that case, quite the harsh judgement considering we've not seen Foden play under any other club manager.
Totally agree with that.
Agreed, we have seen KDB at Wolfsburg, Hazard Chelsea / Lille, Palmer last season and this, Saka over 3/4 years and Salah over all his years since Fiorentina, they all have the capability to drag their team, score goal out of nothing.
I see that the poster after has said its harsh but its not is it? KDB has done it for City.. when they are a goal down or need something, he has in the past come in and got important goals and driven City.
Foden has never really been a player where shines and the rest of the team is abject.
Too often a passenger in games when things aren't going well. Doesn't have the ability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck when the chips are down. Also very one-footed. Last season I was saying he was the most overrated player in the league and I stand by that now. Still waiting for the media to dig him out for his anonymous performances.