Pes 2010

I've found tackling to lack responsiveness on the demo.

Haven't found it too bad so far, even though I usually go for FIFA.

Maybe once I get used to it a bit more I might enjoy it as I have been one on one with the keeper a few times so far and managed to cross the ball, out for a throw.
 
I find this PES thread sluggish, lacking response and poor graphics. I much prefer the FIFA thread with all the dribbling out of mouth.

PES > Being shafted by a 12ft ape > FIFA
 
James Parkin said:
every time I want to cross I shoot, every time I want to shoot I cross

not really enjoyed it, havent bought a PES since 6
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I think that's down to you being crap maybe?

Swing the buttons around. This is what I mean. I reckon half the FIFA lot forget the controls are slightly different, and write the game off as shite because of it
 
Thats one person. Hardly half the people who play Fifa is it.

On the other hand, how much of a chance have you given Fifa? If anyone hasnt spent a lot of time playing next generation Fifa by now, then they must be behind the times and the very definition of a pro evolution soccer fanboy.

On that note, is there anyone in this thread who would honestly say they've never been a pro evolution soccer fanboy at any point, ever? I think at least half the people who have been comparing Fifa favourably to Pro Evo in this thread have stated that they used to be. That they used to get each game without fail, making a trip to game and paying a quid to make sure you get your hands on the demo as soon as it came out and so on. And I was no different, from Pro Evo 2 to Pro Evo 6, its what I had in my playstation for about 90% of that time. I dont think there's a lack of a chance being given to Pro Evo here, we're all very familliar with the game and all either publically or privately would prefer Pro Evo to be the better game, or even almost neck and neck and we'd pick it anyway.

But right now, its not. Its still a decent game in its own right but I got bored of the demo pretty quickly. And yes part of that was definately down to how sluggish it was compared to the old pro evo games, but another part of that was that I'm now used to all the extra depth Fifa gives to nearly all the phases of play, so much so that Pro Evo's straight forward approach feels too easy and too simplistic. Too much freedom to do what are actually difficult things in real football matches. For some people thats what makes a football computer game fun.

But for me, I'd like my game to be as realistic as possible. It'll never be football, but it can be a lot closer than Pro Evolution Soccer is and still be fun to me.

Some have made the point that if you play Pro Evo 6 now, you see the ridiculous speed of it and the now sub-par animations and it doesnt look even close to realistic. But at the time Fifa was even more arcadey and even more unrealistic, despite the speed. And thats why I used to prefer Pro Evo back then. Because it was at the time the more realistic game.

Some people have then gone on to say this unrealistic representation was why the game was fun and that by trying to be more realistic, they are making the games less fun.

I cant speak for anyone else, but despite having shit loads of fun on pro evolution soccer 2 - 6, I'd never pick playing it over watching a real match of football as long as it was a pretty good match. I have fun playing football, I have fun watching football/United - more fun than I ever had playing Pro Evo.
And so the more like watching a real match a football game becomes, the more fun I'm going to have by and large. This wont be the same for everyone - but obviously, I care little about what suits other people in a football game. As long as its good for me, thats all that counts. And I'm sure thats how most people feel about their football game ideals too.
 
Ekeke said:
Thats one person. Hardly half the people who play Fifa is it.

On the other hand, how much of a chance have you given Fifa? If anyone hasnt spent a lot of time playing next generation Fifa by now, then they must be behind the times and the very definition of a pro evolution soccer fanboy.

On that note, is there anyone in this thread who would honestly say they've never been a pro evolution soccer fanboy at any point, ever? I think at least half the people who have been comparing Fifa favourably to Pro Evo in this thread have stated that they used to be. That they used to get each game without fail, making a tried to game and paying a quid to make sure you get your hands on the demo as soon as it came out and so on. And I was no different, from Pro Evo 2 to Pro Evo 6, its what I had in my playstation for about 90% of that time. I dont think there's a lack of a chance being given to Pro Evo here, we're all very familliar with the game and all either publically or privately would prefer Pro Evo to be the better game, or even almost neck and neck and we'd pick it anyway.

But right now, its not. Its still a decent game in its own right but I got bored of the demo pretty quickly. And yes part of that was definately down to how sluggish it was compared to the old pro evo games, but another part of that was that I'm now used to all the extra depth Fifa gives to nearly all the phases of play, so much so that Pro Evo's straight forward approach feels too easy and too simplistic. Too much freedom to do what are actually difficult things in real football matches. For some people thats what makes a football computer game fun.

But for me, I'd like my game to be as realistic as possible. It'll never be football, but it can be a lot closer than Pro Evolution Soccer is and still be fun to me.

Some have made the point that if you play Pro Evo 6 now, you see the ridiculous speed of it and the now sub-par animations and it doesnt look even close to realistic. But at the time Fifa was even more arcadey and even more unrealistic, despite the speed. And thats why I used to prefer Pro Evo back then. Because it was at the time the more realistic game.

Some people have then gone on to say this unrealistic representation was why the game was fun and that by trying to be more realistic, they are making the games less fun.

I cant speak for anyone else, but despite having shit loads of fun on pro evolution soccer 2 - 6, I'd never pick playing it over watching a real match of football as long as it was a pretty good match. I have fun playing football, I have fun watching football/United - more fun than I ever had playing Pro Evo.
And so the more like watching a real match a football game becomes, the more fun I'm going to have by and large. This wont be the same for everyone - but obviously, I care little about what suits other people in a football game. As long as its good for me, thats all that counts. And I'm sure thats how most people feel about their football game ideals too.
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Stole the words out of my mouth (or keyboard..)

More realistic a game is = more i like it
More realistic a game is and more detailed it is = more fun it is for me at least!


and I can't stand the 'oh you're not giving PES a chance' bollocks..
I've played enough PES from PES 3-6 to know it was fecking brilliant at the time and I played that much much much much more than FIFA and never touched FIFA during that era.. Now however FIFA, in my opinion of course, has totally over taken PES..

oh and who said FIFA is no more responsive than PES ?!
The FIFA 10 demo's responsiveness in unbelievably good! I definitely saw the difference between that and on 09 and 08 at least...and definitely much much more responsive than PES ..
 
Ekeke said:
Yeah, Fifa 10 is a lot more responsive.
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Also I noticed someone mentioning 'depth' with Fifa. With regards to shooting:

1) Placement - yes, with PES all you have to do is point the analog stick to which side of the goal you want to shoot at and the player will do it. Also, holding down R2 when shooting will decrease the power slightly but increase accuracy.

2) Curling - fair play, can't do that in PES

3) Power - hold down the shoot button for longer :confused:
 
Some people are definitely over-selling FIFA, even though I agree it's definitely the better game of the new releases. Still got problems though.

- Can be slightly unresponsive at times.
- Phantom tackles.
- Far too easy to lob keeper, and be lobbed.
- Niggly referees blowing up for innocuous tackles.
- Have found it quite easy to dispossess opposition defenders by pressuring them, gifting you one-on-ones you barely worked for.
- Physicality rules e.g. Chelsea are a far more effective side than Barca IME. Maybe not a negative but it is to me.
- Sometimes it's difficult to see the difference in midfielder's stats e.g. Obi Mikel can basically the pass the ball as well as Essien, so long as you get the power and direction right.
- You'll struggle to get the best out of players like Messi unless you want to verse yourself in the arcadey tedium of the trick combos.

There are plenty of positives as well of course, and the negatives aren't enough to make me go back to PES, but hopefully EA can iron some of these out before the final release.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Some people are definitely over-selling FIFA, even though I agree it's definitely the better game of the new releases. Still got problems though.

- Can be slightly unresponsive at times.
- Phantom tackles.
- Far too easy to lob keeper, and be lobbed.
- Niggly referees blowing up for innocuous tackles.
- Have found it quite easy to dispossess opposition defenders by pressuring them, gifting you one-on-ones you barely worked for.
- Physicality rules e.g. Chelsea are a far more effective side than Barca IME. Maybe not a negative but it is to me.
- Sometimes it's difficult to see the difference in midfielder's stats e.g. Obi Mikel can basically the pass the ball as well as Essien, so long as you get the power and direction right.
- You'll struggle to get the best out of players like Messi unless you want to verse yourself in the arcadey tedium of the trick combos.

There are plenty of positives as well of course, and the negatives aren't enough to make me go back to PES, but hopefully EA can iron some of these out before the final release.
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Even though Messi's brilliance doesn't stem from tricks at all, unlike Ronaldo or Ronaldinho.
 
Count Duckula said:
Even though Messi's brilliance doesn't stem from tricks at all, unlike Ronaldo or Ronaldinho.
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Well exactly. His brilliance comes from effortlessly gliding past defenders. Good luck doing that on FIFA without the tedious trick combos. The right stick helps, to touch it past defenders but it's not satisfactory. You'll have much more joy with brutes like Drogba and Anelka powering their way past opponents. Physicality rules in FIFA.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Well exactly. His brilliance comes from effortlessly gliding past defenders. Good luck doing that on FIFA without the tedious trick combos. The right stick helps, to touch it past defenders but it's not satisfactory. You'll have much more joy with brutes like Drogba and Anelka powering their way past opponents. Physicality rules in FIFA.
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I sort of agree, but not completely. It's definitely better in FIFA10 than it was in FIFA09. For one, you're much more likely to get a freekick if you're just shoved off the ball by a stronger player. If you're good enough with a player like Messi, you'll be getting lots of freekicks, from regular tackles and shoving and the like. (Also, simple obstructions will award freekicks, unlike in FIFA09).

Secondly, IMO to get the best out of Messi it doesn't take a lot of tricks. You'll need a few, of course, but mainly direction changing ones; I've never found more elaborate ones to be useful. Another thing I particularly liked is that if you just nudge the right stick forward when you're running directly towards a player, your player will try to kick the ball to the side of the player and run past him on the other side, "bridging". It's not always easy to do, but it means that you can actually get past players without having to do a lot of tricks like in FIFA09, with a player like Messi.

Still, it's not perfect. Big players still have a massive advantage. But it's better than last year, I can see that already from the demo.
 
niMic said:
I sort of agree, but not completely. It's definitely better in FIFA10 than it was in FIFA09. For one, you're much more likely to get a freekick if you're just shoved off the ball by a stronger player. If you're good enough with a player like Messi, you'll be getting lots of freekicks, from regular tackles and shoving and the like. (Also, simple obstructions will award freekicks, unlike in FIFA09).

Secondly, IMO to get the best out of Messi it doesn't take a lot of tricks. You'll need a few, of course, but mainly direction changing ones; I've never found more elaborate ones to be useful. Another thing I particularly liked is that if you just nudge the right stick forward when you're running directly towards a player, your player will try to kick the ball to the side of the player and run past him on the other side, "bridging". It's not always easy to do, but it means that you can actually get past players without having to do a lot of tricks like in FIFA09, with a player like Messi.

Still, it's not perfect. Big players still have a massive advantage. But it's better than last year, I can see that already from the demo.
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I agree with this - it's certainly better than 09. The bridging trick is good, and I've done it a few times (more often by accident tbh), but it's hardly a realistic representation of how players like Messi dribble. You might see that trick only 2 or 3 times in a season from Messi in real life. FIFA just haven't quite nailed the delicate changes in direction and feints which characterise Messi's real-life dribbling, and other players with good close control.
 
Spammy said:
I'm not convinced by this new physical contest thing in Fifa. For the most part it's either a) something for the AI to exploit b) random or c) has too important a role in the overall gameplay.
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Yea, I can also see it becoming a problem on the online game where Ronaldo and Drogba whores will exploit physicality advantage to the max.

It's a a bit tedious when a big brute shoves you off the ball and leaves your player like motionless spastic for a second or two.
 
101 said:
Also I noticed someone mentioning 'depth' with Fifa. With regards to shooting:

1) Placement - yes, with PES all you have to do is point the analog stick to which side of the goal you want to shoot at and the player will do it. Also, holding down R2 when shooting will decrease the power slightly but increase accuracy.

2) Curling - fair play, can't do that in PES

3) Power - hold down the shoot button for longer :confused:
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Its basically about choice and ease of use. In Pro Evo you have one button. Either you tap it and if you're close to goal your player may automatically place the ball. If you press the button down longer you'll have a powerful effort.

With Fifa you have that same shoot button and a tap leads to a placed finish, or if you hold it down you get the power shot. But then you have the finesse control. Hold that down and you'll curl your effort towards the corner, or if you tap it you can again place your shot but this time with a bit of bend.

Both games have a chip shot too. But as you can see there are more options with Fifa, which tends to be the case in almost all phases of play.
 
I like how people are running FIFA down along with PES saying one has gone backwards and the other is still crap or barely better. Sorry it just isn't that way. For years PES was the best sports simulation out there, it isn't anymore and FIFA's the best football game out there now and more importantly, a very very good one at that.

Also there was this extremely long and emotional post about popping in an old football game and reliving it's 'unrealism'. Thing is, while that may have been the case for that poster, a large proportion and my guess is, a majority do want it to be as close to the real thing as possible. I definitely do. That is sort of the purpose, to make you believe you're out there. And while doing that making it simple enough for the lesser skilled gamers to have fun as well as the higher skilled ones who want more depth.
 
Spammy said:
I'm not convinced by this new physical contest thing in Fifa. For the most part it's either a) something for the AI to exploit b) random or c) has too important a role in the overall gameplay.
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But it does make sense. If you have Ruud he will finish lethally, Messi will dribble well and Drogba will, be a beast. And if you're using a smaller player ala Giovinco, you should hardly be able to out muscle Terry.
 
Kraftwerker said:
I agree with this - it's certainly better than 09. The bridging trick is good, and I've done it a few times (more often by accident tbh), but it's hardly a realistic representation of how players like Messi dribble. You might see that trick only 2 or 3 times in a season from Messi in real life. FIFA just haven't quite nailed the delicate changes in direction and feints which characterise Messi's real-life dribbling, and other players with good close control.
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Have you tried the new "skill dribbling" feature they have? I think that's very very Messi like tbh!

It's where you move around with the ball with the left and right trigger pressed.....(on the 360)

It's amazing, it's basically where he tries to glide passed the defenders, in between men and small spaces with very very close control according to whatever directions you choose..

Check it out! Thought it was amazing, and finally you can use Messi for what he's good at.
 
zain said:
Have you tried the new "skill dribbling" feature they have? I think that's very very Messi like tbh!

It's where you move around with the ball with the left and right trigger pressed.....(on the 360)

It's amazing, it's basically where he tries to glide passed the defenders, in between men and small spaces with very very close control according to whatever directions you choose..

Check it out! Thought it was amazing, and finally you can use Messi for what he's good at.
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Haven't tried this. Bare in mind I've Pro-Evo'd the controls so sprint is RB(R1) rather than RT(R2), and I've also changed the jockeying button to RT(R2) which also makes that the skill button for tricks, again rather like Pro Evo where R2 was primarily used for skilled moves.

I don't suppose you know how I'd do this dribble with my button configuration?
 
Kraftwerker said:
Haven't tried this. Bare in mind I've Pro-Evo'd the controls so sprint is RB(R1) rather than RT(R2), and I've also changed the jockeying button to RT(R2) which also makes that the skill button for tricks, again rather like Pro Evo where R2 was primarily used for skilled moves.

I don't suppose you know how I'd do this dribble with my button configuration?
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ooh then the skill dribble controls for you will be RB(R1) and RT(R2) pressed together at the same time :)

Press those 2 at the same time and move around your player...do it with someone like Messi..and watch how smoothly they move with the ball..and the close control and the ability to turn your angle suddenly etc..
 
Pogue Mahone said:
So that's pretty much a whole page full of guff about FIFA in a thread about Pro Evo, with none of the converse happening in the FIFA thread.

This rather neatly proves my point from a couple of pages back about evangelism.
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Well I contributed to that happening, but to be fair I was just throwing up some reasons why FIFA probably isn't the all-encompassing great title some are making it out to be.
 
Alright apologies Pogue for taking over the thread..

just one last response to Kraft before I shut up about FIFA..

Kraft. here's kind of how the new skill dribbling looks like, tried to find a decent video but no luck..



Watch how Messi goes past his man and then lets fly..when he receives the ball, controls it and side steps and accelerates, that's just a small small glimpse into the skill dribbling..

It's basically close control, quick feet, combined with acceleration and the ability to dribble through tight spaces and glide between defenders..very Messi like..
 
PES all the way.

Yeh im a fanboy, what of it?

It simply feckin' rocks.
 
zain said:
Watch how Messi goes past his man and then lets fly..when he receives the ball, controls it and side steps and accelerates, that's just a small small glimpse into the skill dribbling..

It's basically close control, quick feet, combined with acceleration and the ability to dribble through tight spaces and glide between defenders..very Messi like..
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Thats been done in PES 09, is it not similar to holding down R2 and L2 on the Ps3?

Cant be arsed to find a vid, need to go to work anyhoo
 
FIFA is all about moving and pressing the sticks and buttons etc on the controller. It has nothing to do with football. It is flauwed IMO. I supose if you enjoy playing certain arcade type games then you'll love FIFA. I also still wonder about the skanks in FIFA, you can still score easy goals. I don't see the point in scoring 6 + goals every game.
PES is more about simulation, you can sort of slighty relate it to how it is on a football pitch. It's not perfect but I find it more satisfying than FIFA.
 
Spammy said:
Fifa isn't that responsive. PES isn't anyless responsive in relation to the time it takes for an action to happen after pressing the button. The sluggishness and lethargic player movement isn't the same as responsiveness.
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No I can get past the sluggishness. Its when I press pass/shoot and it takes that extra second longer when compared to PES 09, that I get pissed. Its especially apparent when you play against a good human opponent who will just nick the ball off you.
 
Rams said:
FIFA is all about moving and pressing the sticks and buttons etc on the controller. It has nothing to do with football. It is flauwed IMO. I supose if you enjoy playing certain arcade type games then you'll love FIFA. I also still wonder about the skanks in FIFA, you can still score easy goals. I don't see the point in scoring 6 + goals every game.
PES is more about simulation, you can sort of slighty relate it to how it is on a football pitch. It's not perfect but I find it more satisfying than FIFA.
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That was true a few years ago. Sadly not anymore though.
 
Ekeke said:
Its basically about choice and ease of use. In Pro Evo you have one button. Either you tap it and if you're close to goal your player may automatically place the ball. If you press the button down longer you'll have a powerful effort.

With Fifa you have that same shoot button and a tap leads to a placed finish, or if you hold it down you get the power shot. But then you have the finesse control. Hold that down and you'll curl your effort towards the corner, or if you tap it you can again place your shot but this time with a bit of bend.

Both games have a chip shot too. But as you can see there are more options with Fifa, which tends to be the case in almost all phases of play.
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Shooting on Fifa is better and has more depth because there is a finesse shot?? Bullshit. PES has had a finesse shot. Last years Fifa was basically a goal everytime you shot and the shooting was very linear. I can't see much difference this year apart from them toning down the finesse shot's accuracy, but it doesn't mean you can't just open up your body and get a goal everytime. And Long range shooting is still gash.

kps88 said:
No I can get past the sluggishness. Its when I press pass/shoot and it takes that extra second longer when compared to PES 09, that I get pissed. Its especially apparent when you play against a good human opponent who will just nick the ball off you.
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Well I honestly haven't noticed it being that bad mate, it's not anything that doesn't take place in other football games, you press the button it fecking waits until you're getting tackled until the action is carried out.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Well exactly. His brilliance comes from effortlessly gliding past defenders. Good luck doing that on FIFA without the tedious trick combos. The right stick helps, to touch it past defenders but it's not satisfactory. You'll have much more joy with brutes like Drogba and Anelka powering their way past opponents. Physicality rules in FIFA.
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Ever heard of the "skilled dribbling" ???
That is the closest thing to get you to a Messi type of dribbling, that plus combined with the right stick push of the ball and you can pretty much recreate his dribbling style
 
Just give PES a good go and it's still fairly poor. I don't care what the game is called i just want to play the best one, and FIFA wins for the 3rd year running. It's all down to personal taste at the end of the day but for me it's not even close. It will be interesting to see some proper reviews by the professionals.
 
Rams said:
FIFA is all about moving and pressing the sticks and buttons etc on the controller. It has nothing to do with football. It is flauwed IMO. I supose if you enjoy playing certain arcade type games then you'll love FIFA. I also still wonder about the skanks in FIFA, you can still score easy goals. I don't see the point in scoring 6 + goals every game.
PES is more about simulation, you can sort of slighty relate it to how it is on a football pitch. It's not perfect but I find it more satisfying than FIFA.
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So dribbling past "world-class" defences effortlessly with any player that possesses a bit of pace and dribbling ability is a hallmark of a simulation game?

Or perhaps it's the unresponsive defence, who struggle to even make a tackle against strong/pacy players, and go AWOL, not bothering to track runs or marking opposition strikers

How about when you use the pressure button, and a defender you have no control over slide tackles the opposition in the penalty area.

I could go on.
 
Inch perfect through balls with Cannavaro and goalkeepers who wont come to collect an overhit throughball which ends up on the edge of his 6 yard box before my striker collects it and fires home. Simulation!

The comparisons are here because Fifa's demo came out first and there's something to actually compare this one to. Had Pro Evo's demo come out first it would have been the other way around with the comparisons in the other thread. Get over it.
 
We've been through this Pogue, the FIFA brigade have had years of PES heads invading their space and cussing them down...they're just getting their slice of the pie..>As a convertee, I'm enjoying both slices
 
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