Pes 2010

I actually bought my copy of PES 2009 on the day it was released, just like I had for every previous installment. I can remember the excitement I used to get when the demos were released, I even pre-ordered them and went down to my local GAME store to pick them up. I remember the excitement each year at the prospect of putting the discs into my PS2 and playing what was surely going to be the greatest football game ever made. I tried to muster that same enthusiasm for PES 2009, and very nearly did, although I really should have learnt my lesson from 2008 -- but I had hopes they would turn it around.... surely? For the first time in many years, I actually purchased a copy of the latest FIFA release, to see if that would quench my hunger for a football game that would keep my attention and enthrall me from the first play right up to the following year's release, just like it was in the old days.

Neither really did it for me however. Both undoubtedly had their qualities, but I've started to notice a worrying problem with the "evolution" of the football game: It just isn't fun anymore. Games are meant to be played for that very reason, and it seems that with the step up to the latest generation of consoles, games companies are seeking to attain that realism that is now possible. But I don't need a realistic football game; I have a genuine, real football and good mates to play with, and that's a lot more fun than twiddling some sticks on a pad with a game that tries to simulate that real game feeling.

When I play a game, I want it to take my mind off all the shit that's going on in my life; I want to wake up in the morning, go downstairs in my boxers, scratch my arse and play a fun game of football that makes me scream with joy at each goal I score and chuck my pad on the floor whenever I concede a goal. I don't want strategies, or balls that feel like you're kicking a rock around the pitch, even if all of that makes the experience more "realistic".

I downloaded the demo for FIFA 2010, and it's alright, a decent game but I know it won't keep me coming back all year. So I downloaded the demo for PES 2010, and since it was taking such an age to finish, I decided to give one of the older games a go, to see what nostalgic, child-like emotions I could conjure up, to see if it was as good as I had remembered: Did I really play PES 6 every day for a year? Did it really never leave my PS2? The first sign was when I opened up the case only to find it empty; the disc was still sitting in my dusty, old PS2, just where I had left it and where it had remained almost permanently since I first played it. So, being the lazy sod I am, I chose not to plug in the old beast and went instead for PES 5.

I got downstairs, inserted the disc and was welcomed with the old PlayStation 2 logo, then came the memories. The intro sequence featuring Kasabian's "Club Foot" was the first thing to get me pumped up, then came the title screen, with the voice-over that tells you exactly what you came to hear: You're playing "PRO! EVOLUTION! SOCCER! 5....." Well that got me all giddy again. So I played my first game, and feck me, it was amazing. Sure, the graphics are crap and there were occasions when my passes literally went in the opposite direction to where I'd told them to go, but what a FUN game. Is it realistic? Not a chance. Is it just like playing the real thing? No, and it's all the better for it. This isn't a football simulation and it doesn't intend to be, it's a computer game made for kids and big kids to chill out and simply enjoy.

Everything moved at about 10 times the speed of a real game, the ball pinged around the pitch like a bullet. You win possession and find the ball at the feet of your defender, you look down and see on that little radar at the bottom that you have a red dot moving free down the wing, so you hold L1 and triangle to hit the most ridiculously sublime chipped throughball the world has ever seen, right into the path of your winger. In the blink of an eye you have seen off the danger and created a chance for yourself. So you get to the byline and fire a cross into the box....... Your striker rises and..... HOLY SHIT you hit the bar and it sounds like you've hit a plank of wood!! The ball falls to one of their players and you're racing back with all your might, those little men, Rimaldo and co. are doing all they can but the game is just moving too quickly and the oppositon get to your area and shoot. Your goalkeeper pulls off an incredible fingertip save he had no right to make and the action begins again, all at lightning speed.


Eventually I decided it was time to hit the sack and I quit the game, only to remember that my PES 2010 demo had finished downloading. So I installed it, had a quick look at the new tactics and the fancy screens and I played one half of a match, then turned off my PS3. I felt like I'd spent all afternoon playing the latest relase, then given one of the ageing copies a go for old time's sake, when in fact it was the other way around. Everything was so slow, it felt heavy and dare I say it, boring? What has happened to the game I used to love, that took up so much of my youth? I think for the first time since I can remember, I won't be buying either FIFA or PES. You can keep those debates over which is the best of the newest releases, it's like arguing the case for the newest model of a FORD or FIAT car, when you could just as easily be driving around in an Aston Martin DB9 that's been sitting in your garage gathering dust for the last few years. I'm going to stick with PES 5 this time, or if I can summon up the energy, I may just give PES 6 a try.
 
You can keep those debates over which is the best of the newest releases, it's like arguing the case for the newest model of a FORD or FIAT car
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Good analogy. Sadly I'm sure the sales of both will only encourage the shoddy efforts of both development teams.

Same thread next year anyone?
 
Neither of these games are perfect. I agree Fifa 09 is much more playable than PES 2009, which was just a horrible, arcadey mess. But we've discussed the obvious faults of PES in great detail, but Fifa for me is far from perfect either. I know people have mentioned the balloon like effect on the ball, and the generally mediocre shooting system.

But another gripe with Fifa for me is that I don't feel the difference when I have, say a creative midfielder on the ball with an expansive passing range, or a less technically gifted holding mid. I feel I have the same passing ability at my disposal with either player irrespective of their attributes. On previous Pro's especially, when I have say a Pirlo on the ball, I know that I can attempt the more ambitious passes with him, whereas if I had Gatusso on the ball, I instantly felt more limited and tryed to keep it short and simple.
 
There's something fundamentally wrong with the PES 2010 demo. Its not a gameplay issue, its a technical snag. There's just no fecking way the final version will be anything like that.

Response times are very slow, and from what I've read everywhere, the newer builds of the game have removed this problem. PES 09 is ALOT more enjoyable than this demo.

Makes you wonder why Konami bothered rushing it out. It is unplayable because of this problem, especially for someone like me who likes playing fast one touch football. They've surely lost themselves alot of potential customers who think the final game will have the same issue.
 
I see what you did there Weaste
 
Easy V said:
I actually bought my copy of PES 2009 on the day it was released, just like I had for every previous installment. I can remember the excitement I used to get when the demos were released, I even pre-ordered them and went down to my local GAME store to pick them up. I remember the excitement each year at the prospect of putting the discs into my PS2 and playing what was surely going to be the greatest football game ever made. I tried to muster that same enthusiasm for PES 2009, and very nearly did, although I really should have learnt my lesson from 2008 -- but I had hopes they would turn it around.... surely? For the first time in many years, I actually purchased a copy of the latest FIFA release, to see if that would quench my hunger for a football game that would keep my attention and enthrall me from the first play right up to the following year's release, just like it was in the old days.

Neither really did it for me however. Both undoubtedly had their qualities, but I've started to notice a worrying problem with the "evolution" of the football game: It just isn't fun anymore. Games are meant to be played for that very reason, and it seems that with the step up to the latest generation of consoles, games companies are seeking to attain that realism that is now possible. But I don't need a realistic football game; I have a genuine, real football and good mates to play with, and that's a lot more fun than twiddling some sticks on a pad with a game that tries to simulate that real game feeling.

When I play a game, I want it to take my mind off all the shit that's going on in my life; I want to wake up in the morning, go downstairs in my boxers, scratch my arse and play a fun game of football that makes me scream with joy at each goal I score and chuch my pad on the floor whenever I concede a goal. I don't want strategies, or balls that feel like you're kicking a rock around the pitch, even if all of that makes the experience more "realistic".

I downloaded the demo for FIFA 2010, and it's alright, a decent game but I know it won't keep me coming back all year. So I downloaded the demo for PES 2010, and since it was taking such an age to finish, I decided to give one of the older games a go, to see what nostalgic, child-like emotions I could conjure up, to see if it was as good as I had remembered: Did I really play PES 6 every day for a year? Did it really never leave my PS2? The first sign was when I opened up the case only to find it empty; the disc was still sitting in my old, dusty PS2, just where I had left it and where it had remained almost permanently since I first played it. So, being the lazy sod I am, I chose not to plug in the old beast and went instead for PES 5.

I got downstairs, inserted the disc and was welcomed with the old PlayStation 2 logo, then came the memories. The intro sequence featuring Kasabian's "Club Foot" was the first thing to get me pumped up, then came the title screen, with the voice-over that tells you exactly what you came to hear: You're playing "PRO! EVOLUTION! SOCCER! 5....." Well that got me all giddy again. So I played my first game, and feck me, it was amazing. Sure, the graphics are crap and there were occasions when my passes literally went in the opposite direction to where I'd told them to go, but what a FUN game. Is it realistic? Not a chance. Is it just like playing the real thing? No, and it's all the better for it. This isn't a football simulation and it doesn't intend to be, it's a computer game made for kids and big kids to chill out and simply enjoy.

Everything moved at about 10 times the speed of a real game, the ball pinged around the pitch like a bullet. You win possesion and find the ball at the feet of your defender, you look down and see on that little radar at the bottom that you have a red dot moving free down the wing, so you hold L1 and triangle to hit the most ridiculously sublime chipped throughball the world has ever seen, right into the path of your winger. Within the blink of an eye you have seen off the danger and created a chance for yourself. So you get to the byline and fire a cross into the box....... Your striker rises and..... HOLY SHIT you hit the bar and it sounds like you've hit a plank of wood!! The ball falls to one of their players and you're racing back with all your might, those little men, Rimaldo and co. are doing all they can but the game is just moving too quick and the oppositon get to your area and shoot. Your goalkeeper pulls off an incredible fingertip save he had no right to make and the action begins again, all at lightning speed.


Eventually I decided it was time to hit the sack and I quit the game, only to remember that my PES 2010 demo had finished downloading. So I installed it, had a quick look at the new tactics and the fancy screens and I played one half of a match, then turned off my PS3. I felt like I'd spent all afternoon playing the latest relase, then given one of the ageing copies a go for old time's sake, when in fact it was the other way around. Everything was so slow, it felt heavy and dare I say it, boring? What has happened to the game I used to love, that took up so much of my youth? I think for the first time since I can remember, I won't be buying either FIFA or PES. You can keep those debates over which is the best of the newest releases, it's like arguing the case for the newest model of a FORD or FIAT car, when you could just as easily be driving around in aa Aston Martin DB9 that's been sitting in your garage gathering dust for the last few years. I'm going to stick with PES 5 this time, or if I can summon up the energy, I may just give PES 6 a try.
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That's a great post and sums up my thoughts (and experiences) exactly.

For the last 2 or 3 years I've been getting the latest PES in the vain hope that I can get the same enjoyment from playing it as I did the old versions but it's been a disspointment each time. The latest FIFA games are just as bad, only in a prettier package.
 
The response times feel like Fifa 08.

The game feels very simple and straightforward as Fifa has more depth in almost every aspect and in most cases gives you lots more options.
For example shooting. In Pro Evo you hit the shoot button and thats it. In Fifa 10 you need to choose between placing your shot/ curling it, or having a powerful strike at goal. Like in football, you have options and a choice to make. The majority of the defending is still done automatically with pressing a few buttons to have players automatically close everyone down. Thats something Fifa has moved away from judging from the demo of Fifa 10 and its another reason why the game feels simplistic/easy. Defending is part of football too and it should take a decent effort on the player's part to successfully win the ball back.

There's no first touch or extra dribbling options like with Fifa either, its all very direct and straight forward. You pick the ball up and press the stick towards the opponents goal and your away, past several challenges - with pretty much any player who has hold of the ball. It pretty much feels like a slow version of Pro Evolution Soccer 6. And while that will be enough to suppliment a lot of the pro evo fanboys who refuse to give other games a proper go, football games have moved on since then. Or rather, one has.

On the plus side, the graphics are nice and the soundtrack could be worse and at least these days Pro Evo has moved on from when the ball used to magically stop dead before every pass and you'd hear a big clunk like someone had belted the ball 65 yards up the pitch each time you make a 5 yard pass to the side. However, it used to be Pro Evo's much more realistic player animations and the fluidity of the passing that meant Pro Evo was the better footballing game. Now Fifa has Pro Evo beat in both aspects by a large amount, and also beats it in the vast majority of other aspects too. Pro Evo has a mountain to climb from this point.

Its a decent game of football but doesnt come close to the best one judging by the demos of the new games. Although some might prefer its simple nature.
 
Easy V said:
I actually bought my copy of PES 2009 on the day it was released, just like I had for every previous installment. I can remember the excitement I used to get when the demos were released, I even pre-ordered them and went down to my local GAME store to pick them up. I remember the excitement each year at the prospect of putting the discs into my PS2 and playing what was surely going to be the greatest football game ever made. I tried to muster that same enthusiasm for PES 2009, and very nearly did, although I really should have learnt my lesson from 2008 -- but I had hopes they would turn it around.... surely? For the first time in many years, I actually purchased a copy of the latest FIFA release, to see if that would quench my hunger for a football game that would keep my attention and enthrall me from the first play right up to the following year's release, just like it was in the old days.

Neither really did it for me however. Both undoubtedly had their qualities, but I've started to notice a worrying problem with the "evolution" of the football game: It just isn't fun anymore. Games are meant to be played for that very reason, and it seems that with the step up to the latest generation of consoles, games companies are seeking to attain that realism that is now possible. But I don't need a realistic football game; I have a genuine, real football and good mates to play with, and that's a lot more fun than twiddling some sticks on a pad with a game that tries to simulate that real game feeling.

When I play a game, I want it to take my mind off all the shit that's going on in my life; I want to wake up in the morning, go downstairs in my boxers, scratch my arse and play a fun game of football that makes me scream with joy at each goal I score and chuch my pad on the floor whenever I concede a goal. I don't want strategies, or balls that feel like you're kicking a rock around the pitch, even if all of that makes the experience more "realistic".

I downloaded the demo for FIFA 2010, and it's alright, a decent game but I know it won't keep me coming back all year. So I downloaded the demo for PES 2010, and since it was taking such an age to finish, I decided to give one of the older games a go, to see what nostalgic, child-like emotions I could conjure up, to see if it was as good as I had remembered: Did I really play PES 6 every day for a year? Did it really never leave my PS2? The first sign was when I opened up the case only to find it empty; the disc was still sitting in my old, dusty PS2, just where I had left it and where it had remained almost permanently since I first played it. So, being the lazy sod I am, I chose not to plug in the old beast and went instead for PES 5.

I got downstairs, inserted the disc and was welcomed with the old PlayStation 2 logo, then came the memories. The intro sequence featuring Kasabian's "Club Foot" was the first thing to get me pumped up, then came the title screen, with the voice-over that tells you exactly what you came to hear: You're playing "PRO! EVOLUTION! SOCCER! 5....." Well that got me all giddy again. So I played my first game, and feck me, it was amazing. Sure, the graphics are crap and there were occasions when my passes literally went in the opposite direction to where I'd told them to go, but what a FUN game. Is it realistic? Not a chance. Is it just like playing the real thing? No, and it's all the better for it. This isn't a football simulation and it doesn't intend to be, it's a computer game made for kids and big kids to chill out and simply enjoy.

Everything moved at about 10 times the speed of a real game, the ball pinged around the pitch like a bullet. You win possesion and find the ball at the feet of your defender, you look down and see on that little radar at the bottom that you have a red dot moving free down the wing, so you hold L1 and triangle to hit the most ridiculously sublime chipped throughball the world has ever seen, right into the path of your winger. Within the blink of an eye you have seen off the danger and created a chance for yourself. So you get to the byline and fire a cross into the box....... Your striker rises and..... HOLY SHIT you hit the bar and it sounds like you've hit a plank of wood!! The ball falls to one of their players and you're racing back with all your might, those little men, Rimaldo and co. are doing all they can but the game is just moving too quickly and the oppositon get to your area and shoot. Your goalkeeper pulls off an incredible fingertip save he had no right to make and the action begins again, all at lightning speed.


Eventually I decided it was time to hit the sack and I quit the game, only to remember that my PES 2010 demo had finished downloading. So I installed it, had a quick look at the new tactics and the fancy screens and I played one half of a match, then turned off my PS3. I felt like I'd spent all afternoon playing the latest relase, then given one of the ageing copies a go for old time's sake, when in fact it was the other way around. Everything was so slow, it felt heavy and dare I say it, boring? What has happened to the game I used to love, that took up so much of my youth? I think for the first time since I can remember, I won't be buying either FIFA or PES. You can keep those debates over which is the best of the newest releases, it's like arguing the case for the newest model of a FORD or FIAT car, when you could just as easily be driving around in an Aston Martin DB9 that's been sitting in your garage gathering dust for the last few years. I'm going to stick with PES 5 this time, or if I can summon up the energy, I may just give PES 6 a try.
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Completely agree, except i will be buying PES10 because its become a annual tradition and i hope each time they may have gone back to basics! Problem is both Fifa and PES are so geared up to making the game more realistic in terms of graphics and game play but it only defeats the point of why you play a game - to have fun not to throw a fit because your RB isnt making overlapping runs when you attack.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Completely agree, except i will be buying PES10 because its become a annual tradition and i hope each time they may have gone back to basics! Problem is both Fifa and PES are so geared up to making the game more realistic in terms of graphics and game play but it only defeats the point of why you play a game - to have fun not to throw a fit because your RB isnt making overlapping runs when you attack.
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Yup. It's disappointing that PES has followed FIFA up it's own arse.

What's weird is that back in the day my biggest criticism of FIFA is that is was too arcadey. They've somehow managed to go from too arcadey to too boring, without ever producing a version that got the balance about right.

Pro Evo seems to have got progressively worse since the next gen consoles came out but at least you can revert to earlier versions for some decent game-play.
 
Mitch Conor said:
my main gripe is response times, which are apparently better in later codes.
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Thats definitely another gripe right there....very unresponsive for me. Whereas, again, thats something we'd assosiate with old school FIFA and not PRO

As for people are too FIFA-ized, well yes. Old FIFA reviews were full of people who were too PES-ized slagging it off, claiming it as no where near as good and people into FIFA were indiots who weren't real football fans...I know cos I was one of them.. And there's nothing wrong in comparing it to a rival game whose function is the same...When I was a PESite I was ludicrously pious and damning about FIFA...now the boots on the other foot and FIFA's the better game, those who still love PES are getting a bit uppity about it.....if you can't take it, don't dish it out. FIFA is better unfortunately, IMVHO
 
I agree the sluggishness is the biggest concern right now. If they made it a lot faster it would basically be the pro evolution soccer of old. Really.

It's not that bad a game on the whole (aside from the speed), and the likes of Pro Evo 6 arent as good as some make out, if you play them today. They obviously blew Fifa out of the water back then, but there are so many advancements made since then that the main reasons Pro Evo 6 was a far better game than the Fifa counterpart, are now addressed in the Fifa games. Specifically the 'more realistic' animations and the fluid gameplay.

It would be more fun if they made Pro Evo faster again, but still a lot more limited on the whole than Fifa. But some people like a simple, easy to do what you want to do game and this decent but not outstanding game will be right up their alley. Unfortunately the game doesnt seem like much of a challenge. And some of the AI is truly awful. But again, there was similar retarded AI in the old Pro Evo games and sometimes when your keeper slides under a slow bouncing ball and a striker picks it up on the other side of him and blasts it home, it makes you think back to all those times it used to happen in the other games in the series.
 
Mockney said:
Thats definitely another gripe right there....very unresponsive for me. Whereas, again, thats something we'd assosiate with old school FIFA and not PRO

As for people are too FIFA-ized, well yes. Old FIFA reviews were full of people who were too PES-ized slagging it off, claiming it as no where near as good and people into FIFA were indiots who weren't real football fans...I know cos I was one of them.. And there's nothing wrong in comparing it to a rival game whose function is the same...When I was a PESite I was ludicrously pious and damning about FIFA...now the boots on the other foot and FIFA's the better game, those who still love PES are getting a bit uppity about it.....if you can't take it, don't dish it out. FIFA is better unfortunately, IMVHO
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You prefer the current FIFA to the old Pro Evos?

The other thing to bear in mind is that the gulf between the latest FIFA and the latest Pro Evo is nowhere near as big as the gulf between the older games. That's why it all go so heated, because the old FIFA was so atrocious that sensible folk were flabbergasted whenever it was touted as being better than Pro Evo.

I don't like either of the latest versions but I can clearly see why some would consider FIFA the better game. It's still not much cop though.
 
The biggest gripe i have with Fifa is there seems to be a formula to scoring goals. What i mean by that is that there aren't actually that many different routes to goal. In PES it's less structured, there's more variety to the play. That's the impression i got from play both 09 versions anyway.
 
uae said:
The biggest gripe i have with Fifa is there seems to be a formula to scoring goals. What i mean by that is that there aren't actually that many different routes to goal. In PES it's less structured, there's more variety to the play. That's the impression i got from play both 09 versions anyway.
Click to expand...

I think there are just as many routes, but its easier to execute what you want to do on Pro Evo. You dont have to think about so many things, just the basics. Pick the ball up, run past 2 players by pressing your stick forward and sprint, cross the ball, head it or time a volley.

Whereas with Fifa you have to think about how you're going to go past the players, its more of a challenge. Can you just dribble past or are you going to need to be a bit tricky to beat these opponents with the use of the right stick? There are now more crossing options so you have to put more thought into what kind of cross and where to. And when the ball is put into the box the new defensive improvements to the game mean that the defending side can throw a spanner in the works with some great defensive play to deny your goal, as well as goalkeepers who are able to spoil the party.

Some people probably do play the Fifa 10 demo and think, why have they added more depth to almost every phase of play? Why make it more complicated? I just want to score brilliant goals right off the bat. It cant and wont suit everyone.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You prefer the current FIFA to the old Pro Evos?
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Old Evo's...Since I don't have a PS2 anymore I can't play them to reassess my theory, but my memory tells me I was far more obsessed with them...I actually bought a PS3 specifically to play PES, wouldn't have got one either, which is why I was so upset that it was shit
 
Go download Pro Evo 6 on the pc. Was playing it between games on this pro evo demo. There arent as many differences as some would suggest.
 
uae said:
The biggest gripe i have with Fifa is there seems to be a formula to scoring goals. What i mean by that is that there aren't actually that many different routes to goal. In PES it's less structured, there's more variety to the play. That's the impression i got from play both 09 versions anyway.
Click to expand...

There was a formula to scoring goals in the old fifa games. I don't think there is a formula in the latest fifa demo. On the contrary, there seems a much more obvious formula to score in the latest pes demo.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Pro Evo has always been shit on the PC. Most football games are.
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Beats pro evo 5 on the playstation 2. Cant find my pro evo 6 disk though sadly. Unfortunately back then I had a habit of not leaving them in the right boxes and now all I have is the box.

Regardless, it plays like its the same version and I have a wireless receiver so I can use a console controller.
 
OK, played a few dozen games now.

Basically, I really can't understand why they've rushed this demo out..they haven't finished it yet and it's doing them no favours....besides the obvious AI glitches and bizarre goalkeeper narcolepsy the main thing that's bugging me is the unresponsiveness. There seems to be no evidence of the 360 dribbling...players turn stiffly and in the same 4 directional pattern they used to and they'll often take a touch and set themselves before releasing a pass you've tapped for 2 seconds ago.

On the plus side the shooting is good but, as with the passing, a little unresponsive, and it's certainly nicer to look at than FIFA is and it's got that age old PES feeling of being able to score any type of goal which is nice, but they're rarely goals you feel completely satisfied in scoring....still not sure about it and am completely confused as to why they've felt compelled to rush this clearly glitchy demo into the market place
 
kps88 said:
Most of those issues just seem to be happening because the guys a bit shit. I've never had control issues with the game.
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The one with the player running for the ball when you send him in one direction but he doesn't listen and fecks off in another - that's an issue I have every match I play. No matter how accurately you direct the player sometimes when the ball is free, the opposition is destined to get it.
 
101 said:
The one with the player running for the ball when you send him in one direction but he doesn't listen and fecks off in another - that's an issue I have every match I play. No matter how accurately you direct the player sometimes when the ball is free, the opposition is destined to get it.
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I don't play against the CPU so many it only happens then.
 
I dunno, I've played a few games today, and it seems alright to me.

Yeah, clearly there are response time issues, but by all accounts they have been sorted in the latest code. The keepers seem better, though not fixed, and the 360 movement works as it should.

It feels like it will be more difficult, and the tactics seems to be a welcome addition, as they make an obvious difference to how you play.

I'm still quietly optimistic, though that comes from someone who's given every FIFA game a good go, but not gotten the same buzz from them.
 
I have just played my first game on the new PES2010 demo. Infact I played 3 or 4 games in a row.


Can I just point out something that most people seem to have missed?


BOTH FIFA AND PES TRY TO APPROACH THE SPORT OF FOOTBALL FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE!

Meaning; Fifa tries hard to focus on the slick, polished and fancy elements of football. But I don't buy all the "skill" bollocks, it's the kind of stuff adored by people that just practise freestyle juggling and don't actually play 11-a-side. Just look at Fifa Street and compare it to old skool arcade football games where it was all about selling a dummy, dipping the shoulder and working the passes to create space manually. Not twiddling a stick which results in your player randomly shitting his legs out of his arse before getting tackled easily (yes I'm crap at the skill on Fifa), but the point is it's quite hard to actually sell a dummy on Fifa because that's not what it wants the gameplay to be like. PES, to me, has always tried to focus on the core elements of the gameplay being a battle of footballing brains (eg. human brain vs AI/human vs human). Even though (and this is going to sound like a contradiction) on the face of it things like passing and tackling are more controlled than on Fifa.

One of the biggest things I like about PES is that the pitch is a proper size. It's a fine balance between the match day atmosphere seeming sparse and not feeling slightly claustrophobic like Fifa's squashed and elongated rectangle. Last year's PES was leaning too much towards the sparse side leaving matches feeling unimportant and not giving you the more involving atmosphere of Fifa. I guess the reasons for Fifa's action being so tight knit is that the player's movement is far more fluid and you have more control over your creative passing (weight of the pass etc) leading to chances being easier to create, which is probably the main reason why they don't have realistic ball physics because the overal gameplay is quite linear. PES10's players are obviously far less fluid in their actions but with the pitch being so much bigger it's the only way forward. I would disagree with anyone that says they're significantly less responsive.

Basically, last year when both games were released I initially thought PES was the better of the two, but quickly I became sick of the usual PES shit and the distinct lack of respect shown to us PES fans by the amount of effort lacking on Konami's behalf. Fifa was refreshing, far from perfect itself but a change of perspective that was needed. I actually traded in PES09 half way through the year because I wasn't playing it. This year, they seem to have done relatively few things to PES, but I actually really enjoyed it - I haven't enjoyed a Fifa game like that since...er...the first week I bought it. Of course, the acid test will come when I play my mate and we'll see how the new defensive AI stands up to his attack, so far though, I'm impressed. I think Ekeke said that all Konami have done is slowed the game play down by making the players first touch more lethargic, well I agree completely, and it's not a great method of making good gameplay but it has made a difference. The ends justify the means. They've also made the dribbling less shite. Oh and I have to mention how much I've missed the shooting...

PS. I'm going to buy both games this year because I'm sure things like Be A Pro and online will be fairly unrefined/turd.
 
Spammy said:
I would disagree with anyone that says they're significantly less responsive.
Click to expand...

No. There's something clearly wrong with response times. Konami have apparently corrected this in a more final build of the game.

I can't imagine how anyone cannot notice this. Maybe its been magnified for me since I've been playing PES 09 again for the past few weeks.
 
Spammy said:
I have just played my first game on the new PES2010 demo. Infact I played 3 or 4 games in a row.


Can I just point out something that most people seem to have missed?


BOTH FIFA AND PES TRY TO APPROACH THE SPORT OF FOOTBALL FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE!

Meaning; Fifa tries hard to focus on the slick, polished and fancy elements of football. But I don't buy all the "skill" bollocks, it's the kind of stuff adored by people that just practise freestyle juggling and don't actually play 11-a-side. Just look at Fifa Street and compare it to old skool arcade football games where it was all about selling a dummy, dipping the shoulder and working the passes to create space manually. Not twiddling a stick which results in your player randomly shitting his legs out of his arse before getting tackled easily (yes I'm crap at the skill on Fifa), but the point is it's quite hard to actually sell a dummy on Fifa because that's not what it wants the gameplay to be like. PES, to me, has always tried to focus on the core elements of the gameplay being a battle of footballing brains (eg. human brain vs AI/human vs human). Even though (and this is going to sound like a contradiction) on the face of it things like passing and tackling are more controlled than on Fifa.

One of the biggest things I like about PES is that the pitch is a proper size. It's a fine balance between the match day atmosphere seeming sparse and not feeling slightly claustrophobic like Fifa's squashed and elongated rectangle. Last year's PES was leaning too much towards the sparse side leaving matches feeling unimportant and not giving you the more involving atmosphere of Fifa. I guess the reasons for Fifa's action being so tight knit is that the player's movement is far more fluid and you have more control over your creative passing (weight of the pass etc) leading to chances being easier to create, which is probably the main reason why they don't have realistic ball physics because the overal gameplay is quite linear. PES10's players are obviously far less fluid in their actions but with the pitch being so much bigger it's the only way forward. I would disagree with anyone that says they're significantly less responsive.

Basically, last year when both games were released I initially thought PES was the better of the two, but quickly I became sick of the usual PES shit and the distinct lack of respect shown to us PES fans by the amount of effort lacking on Konami's behalf. Fifa was refreshing, far from perfect itself but a change of perspective that was needed. I actually traded in PES09 half way through the year because I wasn't playing it. This year, they seem to have done relatively few things to PES, but I actually really enjoyed it - I haven't enjoyed a Fifa game like that since...er...the first week I bought it. Of course, the acid test will come when I play my mate and we'll see how the new defensive AI stands up to his attack, so far though, I'm impressed. I think Ekeke said that all Konami have done is slowed the game play down by making the players first touch more lethargic, well I agree completely, and it's not a great method of making good gameplay but it has made a difference. The ends justify the means. They've also made the dribbling less shite. Oh and I have to mention how much I've missed the shooting...

PS. I'm going to buy both games this year because I'm sure things like Be A Pro and online will be fairly unrefined/turd.
Click to expand...

I've always been rather bad at dribbling in the latest FIFA's (and PES when I played that). When I bought FIFA09, which was the first game I got for my 360 (you could even say FIFA09 was the main reason for buying it in the first place), I was sure I'd have a lot of difficulties with the game, both against the AI and specially online. This is because I'd have played the computer version for a while before that, and dribbling was a non-entity there (dribbling as in holding down the modifier, not as in moving this way or that).

Turns out, all that PC-gaming had put me in a good position, instead of a bad, both against the AI and online. I had to rely on good paces and timed runs. Even now, after having played quite a lot of FIFA09 (and some of the demo), I rarely do any dribbling at all. Apart from the occasional fooling about or spur of the moment skill, the only thing I really do that I couldn't have done on the PC is push the right stick one way to push the ball that way.

The point of this rather tedious post is that even in FIFA09 (and FIFA10, from what I can tell) dribbling, actual skill dribbling isn't in any way necessary to play the game.

This might also not be the right place to post it, but you posted yours here, so there it is :p
 
kps88 said:
No. There's something clearly wrong with response times. Konami have apparently corrected this in a more final build of the game.

I can't imagine how anyone cannot notice this. Maybe its been magnified for me since I've been playing PES 09 again for the past few weeks.
Click to expand...

Fifa isn't that responsive. PES isn't anyless responsive in relation to the time it takes for an action to happen after pressing the button. The sluggishness and lethargic player movement isn't the same as responsiveness.
 
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