Pes 2010

gambit28 said:
Eh? Computer football isn't about being a sim, it's about fun.
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So you want a computer game of football thats more fun than real football? I've never seen one. And thats why its no bad thing for the games to be as realistic as possible.
 
Ekeke said:
So you want a computer game of football thats more fun than real football? I've never seen one. And thats why its no bad thing for the games to be as realistic as possible.
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You've misinterpreted his post, he never said he wanted a game to be better then the real thing, he meant that a football game does not have to be a completely realistic too be fun. Sensialbe Soccer anyone.

Now is Fifa more realistic then PES, yes, is it more enjoyable, judging by their Demo’s, no.
 
Ekeke said:
So you want a computer game of football thats more fun than real football? I've never seen one. And thats why its no bad thing for the games to be as realistic as possible.
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You can have all the realistic stats, animations names etc but if it isn't fun then it kind of misses the point of being a game. That is what i loved about the old pes series, it was great fun. Realism was secondry to gameplay.
 
gambit28 said:
You can have all the realistic stats, animations names etc but if it isn't fun then it kind of misses the point of being a game. That is what i loved about the old pes series, it was great fun. Realism was secondry to gameplay.
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But it was still more realistic than its competition (Fifa). And what you're suggesting is that if it was a realistic representation of football, it wouldnt be fun. Arent you a football fan? Arent you currently watching the under 20 world cup even? If you dont find watching the real thing fun, why are you going to such lengths to watch things like youth tournaments?

Watching real football is fun. A realistic represenation of football would be a fun game. A fun but not at all realistic football game was Red Card. It didnt really last.
 
I just find it highly suspicious how every single review has to draw attention to Fifa, even in it's one sentence summary. Not a single one can just review the game on its own merits? I can't trust any review that starts lauding up Fifa because right or not, I don't even like Fifa.
 
noodlehair said:
I just find it highly suspicious how every single review has to draw attention to Fifa, even in it's one sentence summary. Not a single one can just review the game on its own merits? I can't trust any review that starts lauding up Fifa because right or not, I don't even like Fifa.
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Every review of FIFA has mentioned PES as well.

To be fair thats what people want to know, which of the two comes out on top this year. For years every review of FIFA would mention how the gameplay is shit compared to PES.
 
Yeah but that's the thing. I still prefer the crap recent Pro Evo offerings over the last two Fifa's, and my mates are mostly the same. This year's Fifa doesn't seem to do much other than kiss it's own arse...it's still riddled with the same lazy gameplay flaws as last year.

I don't give a shit about how one compares to the other. Fair enough drawing the comparison, but why base an entire review of one game, on how it compares to another? Especially if your opinion of the other is so blinkered it can't be trusted in the first place
 
Reviewers have their opinions, you have yours. If you call them blinkered its just hypocritical.
 
kps88 said:
Reviewers have their opinions, you have yours. If you call them blinkered its just hypocritical.
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Wanting a reviewer to review the game in hand is hypocritical? :rolleyes:
 
Top said:
What? No it's not? That only goes for FIFA.

PES is a direct port and always has been, if I'm not mistaken.
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Right so now I have my xbox back, I've downloaded the demo on that.

Yes the Xbox version is very different to the pc version.

In the pc version everything is very slow and its hard to pass the ball about without players constantly taking a first touch and slowing things down. In the xbox version you can pop it around with ease without that trouble. Every facet of play is much sharper on the xbox version than the pc version, except graphics which are obviously much less impressive.

As well, the player models and cameras are different in each version. The player models are bigger in the pc version.
 
Ekeke said:
But it was still more realistic than its competition (Fifa). And what you're suggesting is that if it was a realistic representation of football, it wouldnt be fun.
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No I'm not suggesting that, but at some point the concentration on making sue you have th right names and animations must move away for having fun. Sensible soccer in the in the early 90's was an incredible football game yet it looked shite. It played with a limited amount of moves, no 360 yaddayadda or trick buttons but in terms of gameplay was far more fun than the current fifa. They are computer games that you play sat down through movements in your hand. You are never going to get that truly authentic feeling so concentrating on making an addictive fun game is the point. Finding the right balance is a must but sacrificing gameplay and fun is the downfall.
Arent you a football fan? Arent you currently watching the under 20 world cup even? If you dont find watching the real thing fun, why are you going to such lengths to watch things like youth tournaments?
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That has nothing to do with my point about computer games. I watch football for a whole different set of reasons to why i play computergames. I enjoy football for the sport. I play footie games on computers because of my interest and the fact that they are fun. If they weren't i wouldn't play them, i would just watch football instead
Watching real football is fun. A realistic represenation of football would be a fun game. A fun but not at all realistic football game was Red Card. It didnt really last.
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Red card was daft and crap. There were far more better games available.
 
So we're agreed then. FIFA was actually crap the past few years, so is the current version. Konami have finally made a half decent game again and we can start enjoying playing football on the console.
 
Are you employed by Konami Rams?...or are you hoping they'll slip you a few thousand quid if you keep this up?
 
Spammy said:
I'd like to know exactly what it is that makes Fifa realistic in some people's eyes...?


It's like football on ice with TERRIBLE ball physics.
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This years version is hideous. The players appear to hover off the floor and look as if they are skating around on ice. 09, the player animation was far better.
 
Spammy said:
I just read the review that gave PES it's lowest score on metacritic to see what they put. Had to leave a couple of anon comments expressing my disgust.
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Now you just want to be indignantly angry. You deliberately seek out the harshest criticism so that you can huff and puff. It's slightly sad.
 
Spammy said:
I just read the review that gave PES it's lowest score on metacritic to see what they put. Had to leave a couple of anon comments expressing my disgust.
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I take it you've played the final version?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's hardly going to be worse than the version he has played, now is it?
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I just find it weird how people are disagreeing so strongly with reviews of PES and FIFA without having played the full versions of both.
 
WENB PES 2010 Review – Winning Eleven Next-Gen Blog

Sometimes in football you have to go backwards to go forwards. Setting up play, creating space, or just maintaining possession – at times it makes sense. Football analogies aside, PES 2010 is a game Konami built from community involvement, and created from past achievements. Going back to their simulation roots, Seabass and his Tokyo team have responded to continued criticism aptly, and created a football game that reaches out to all the fans who have followed the series for over a decade.

And its the fans that will see the true beauty of PES 2010, as the game does require a settling in period. Its something that hits you quite quickly when you play your first match, and can be a jarring experience. You might think the delays in movement and player response is just down to you being dazzled by the incredible graphics (which we’ll salivate over later), but quickly you’ll understand its part of the game.

To a seasoned PES player competing with response times is alien, and left me shaking my head when playing the game initially. After a few games though you start to become accustomed to it, and begin to understand certain players need a bit more extra time in completing particular movements. It can be very frustrating, especially with the tough organised defences to break down. Once you’re over that high hurdle though, the game starts to shine and you in-turn start to enjoy the experience. And for those who chose to stay the course, you’ll be rewarded with the first PES on next-gen that ticks all the console-qualifying boxes.

Perhaps hand-in-hand with the response times, the game instantly feels slower, taking a massive step away from its predecessor. This creates a more realistic playing platform, forcing the user to rely less on dribbling and more on build up play and passing. Not to say you can’t beat a man with a timed directional push and a jab of the run button, but there’s certainly a time and a place for those sort of antics – and in PES’s case player specific.

On the subject of directions, Konami have introduced 360 degree movement this year, although most who try the game aren’t convinced on that figure – me and Suff reckon it’s 16/32 directional. Not to discount it’s importance though, as the added scope for player movement is welcome. Compared to FIFA’s it not as obvious or even as fluid, but I’d argue its more influential and effective in PES 2010. Many hardcore players might be reluctant to do away with the d-pad (like me), but spending time with analogue stick for a decent length of time will prove more than beneficial, even if Seabass still prefers d-pad!

But the extra ways to move do become very important in creating space, especially with Konami focusing exclusively on simulation football. With the reliance on passing over dribbling, and the extremely stubborn defenses this year, they’ve achieved their goal. It all can be a bit much sometimes, especially on higher difficulty, but you soon come to appreciate the way things play out on the pitch. Against even the lesser teams you’ll find getting into one-on-one situations extremely difficult, with every team seemingly having an unbreakable defensive line.

Before the red mist set in I decided to tinker with the team play and player cards, and realised how incredibly deep the set-up was – maybe too much for some. At first it was daunting, and maybe against what I believed in. I’m a firm believer in playing a team in the game to how they would in real life, sticking to playing style and formation. Slowly though I realised that with adjustments of simple parameters I could create an obvious impact on the pitch.

Take one of my many Milan derby games. Playing as AC (obviously) I found that the front 3 of Ronaldinho, Pato and Huntelaar were far too compact, making it easier for the physically strong Inter defense to keep in check. Delving into team play I changed the compactness level to make the 3 forwards not hold hands and have a chat about sports cars (or in Ronaldinho’s case what he ate at half time), and the visual difference was instant. I found Pato hugging the touchline a bit more, with Huntelaar peeling away to the opposite side of the area. The change in movement caused the Inter defense to be stretched, leaving gaps for attacking midfielders to exploits – in this case a cracker from Seedorf from 25 yards.

Talking of crackers, the shooting in PES 2010 is still as satisfying as ever. Whilst creating space is a tad difficult when trying to fire one off, when you get that half-a-yard you feel inclined to have a pop as there’s always a chance of it finding the corner. It’s something unique to PES, just like the player and team individuality.

Players feeling like their real life counter parts has been a mainstay in PES, although its been lacking in the past few years. Its certainly much better this year, although response times don’t help slow intricate dribblers. Players like Diego and Arshavin are effective, but lack of pace and power means they can be bundled off the ball easier thanks you not being able to make last minute changes to your direction. This problem doesn’t effect players like Ribery or Messi though, with their pace and dribbling skills meaning you’ll always feel comfortable when controlling them. Adding in the new trick moves means they can be devastating when in the right hands. Other improvements in player individuality is certainly the passing game, with players like Xavi and Pirlo being able to dictate the game from midfield much more effectively. You’ll find those players being able to hit the intended target much quicker and accurately, even when under intense pressure.

Another element of the individual feel of players is their look, and this year the visuals are incredible. From the screenshots its obvious Konami have managed to achieve true nextgen visuals, making it quite easily the best looking football game ever. From player faces, to the kits, to the stadiums, to the grass, to the lighting etc its breathtaking and worthy of excessive praise.

Away from the pitch, Konami have upped their game in a number modes, most importantly in Master League. Its certainly been ignored over the years, but this year gets a full make over. Lending a lot of features from FIFA’s Manager Modes, you’ll find yourself having the ability to sign up sponsors and upgrade staff to improve things like fitness or negotiating deals. The addition of a deep scouting system, youth players and integrated Champions League and Europa League, all means ML this year is one of the most engrossing one player experiences in football games to date. And did I mention a Player Of The Year Awards Ceremony?

Other modes making an impact are of course online and the returning community mode. While we can’t quite judge online right now, apart from some very positive results from the online beta taking place, we can say community mode will be a big hit with all PES players offline and online. The ability to create tournaments and leagues of varying proportions with the option to edit the set-up completely, AND with it recording all the data is sure to make people want to have those PES late night sessions all over again. Become A legend also makes a return, although the lack of improvements or additions has stopped me spending too much time in there. Its an excellent mode that has many fans, although personally I don’t find the lack of focus on BAL concerning. Edit mode has been freshened up, with new kit templates and up-to-date boots. Theres also the popular inclusion of the ability to untuck players shirts. MP3 importing for chants has been upped, now having 8 per team – 3 of them for particular situations.

While there are so many positives in PES 2010 on and off the pitch, there are reasons why the game isn’t quite hitting the heights of old. When PES was on the PS2 it felt the game had one key saying instilled within development – easy to learn, hard to master. The latest release of PES has reached out to the hardcore, in a way making it unaccessible to newcomers to the series. And with the learning curve higher than its ever been, some may struggle to stick with it. Great for some, but when your competitor is offering out of the box fun and instant satisfaction, more casual gamers will have an easier decision.

Another issue is perhaps the response time in player movement and button delay. While its something that you will get used to, and much improved over earlier/demo code, its not an element I thought would ever be introduced into the PES series. The control set-up of old has been built around an instinctive playing experience, but having to second guess your movement and restrict your playing style to accommodate responsiveness changes that mindset completely.

On a visual front, the animations desperately need an overhaul. There’s some nice touches here and there, but most of the time they look awkward and unrealistic when sandwiched in between some dodgy ones. Back in the first playtest in June I said how important it was for the game to compete with FIFA on that front, and while improvements were made it still lacks any impact or screams improvement.

Other, smaller, niggles begin to irritate in prolonged play too. Keepers, although decent in shot stopping, still spill far too much for my liking. Then there’s the reliance on wing play. With defenses super keen on staying compact, its far to easy and effective to run down the wing and cross the ball for a goal scoring opportunity. The penalty system is better than last year, but doesn’t help itself with the camera staying side-on when taking kicks during the game. The ref’s get a decent amount of flack off me too. If they are not awarding me a stonewall penalty, they’re busy not playing the advantage rule properly. Fouls in general are few and far between, never giving you a sense of realism on the physical side of the sport.

My final gripe, and perhaps biggest, is that the game still doesn’t reach the highs of old achievements. Konami need to understand that while many fans are now playing FIFA because they feel its the better game, most of them still regard the likes of PES 5/6 as the best ever. Fans don’t want a rehash, but a re-imagining of old ethics and mentality, as it’s needed to reinvigorate the series and take it back to the top. While the hardcore will be content, Konami could see themselves fall a little further behind – not because of the competition, but because they fail to understand why the fans fell in love with the series in the first place.

What does actually stop the gap between FIFA and PES widening is the return to simulation, coupled with amazing graphics and the life ending ML. Having these key elements in place, the future is already looking very bright for PES. Community feedback will again be vital next year, but with us starting much sooner the chance for a greater impact and return to greatness is very high.

The good news is that in the mean time we finally have a PES that not only belongs on the nextgen stage, but a game we’ll all be playing until the next version hits. Its about time too.

8/10

This review was written based on final PS3 code.
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A review done by a website devoted to massive PES fans. That's going to be a fair and unbiased review then.
 
Domzi said:
A review done by a website devoted to massive PES fans. That's going to be a fair and unbiased review then.
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I think they gave FIFA a higher score.

And 8/10 sounds about right going on the other reviews.
 
I have been a PES fan from over so many years, since the ISS days. Last year and This year people have turned over to FIFA but for me PES is the game. Have to give credit for FIFA as during the PS2 adys and maybe even PS1, FIFA was one thing for me and that was tap triangle and the shoot. Now they have manged to get out of that mode and make a real good football game.

PES used to have the acardy feel but it was not like how the old FIFA were.

I reember people saying that PES is too arcady and too unrealistic ( since the next gen versions have been out along with ps2) and Konami seem to have tried to slow the game down to give it that realistic edge has it work. I think so it has but a lot of people now are saying it's too slow. How can Konami win.

Playing the demo i feel with teams like spain the good fast nice football can be plaed whilst teams like Italy you hae to play the slow style of football. Wait for that moment to strike.

I think we should be happy that FIFA and PES are fighting each year to try and make a better football game and to out do each other.

I will be getting PES when it is released hoepfully earlier and i hope to have as much fun as the previous PES has given me.

By the way anyone on the PSN and will be getting PES2010 post your PSN id.
 
Domzi said:
A review done by a website devoted to massive PES fans. That's going to be a fair and unbiased review then.
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Don't see why it wouldn't be.

and besides, it's pretty much the same as all the other reviews, except it doesn't keep banging on about Fifa.
 
noodlehair said:
Don't see why it wouldn't be.

and besides, it's pretty much the same as all the other reviews, except it doesn't keep banging on about Fifa.
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No problem with them talking about FIFA, seeing as for the past two years it's set the bench mark. It makes sense for them to compare the two.
 
It does compare the two, but it also reviews PES on it's own merits. So what's the problem, that it's not about Fifa?

There's another thread about Fifa, full of people whinging, if you want to go join in.
 
Comparing i think is fine but it needs to be compaired fairly.
 
Well ordered mine for the pc today off amazon. £17.99, that'll do me. It probably won't arrive for a month though.
 
gambit28 said:
You can have all the realistic stats, animations names etc but if it isn't fun then it kind of misses the point of being a game. That is what i loved about the old pes series, it was great fun. Realism was secondry to gameplay.
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That's what you're not getting. When we say realistic we're talking about realisim in gameplay, not in the look and feel of the game. Obviously you want the game to be as real as possible, because when you play you're trying to believe you are in control of United as they take on Barca in a repeat of last years CL final, or in charge of who the club spend their summer trasfer kitty on. It's all about realism. Football is fun, so the closer these games get to the real deal, the better it is. And my guess is that's generally the objective of most game developers when they set out to make one of these games.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
That's what you're not getting. When we say realistic we're talking about realisim in gameplay, not in the look and feel of the game. Obviously you want the game to be as real as possible, because when you play you're trying to believe you are in control of United as they take on Barca in a repeat of last years CL final, or in charge of who the club spend their summer trasfer kitty on. It's all about realism. Football is fun, so the closer these games get to the real deal, the better it is. And my guess is that's generally the objective of most game developers when they set out to make one of these games.
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What your not getting is this:
Easy V said:
I actually bought my copy of PES 2009 on the day it was released, just like I had for every previous installment. I can remember the excitement I used to get when the demos were released, I even pre-ordered them and went down to my local GAME store to pick them up. I remember the excitement each year at the prospect of putting the discs into my PS2 and playing what was surely going to be the greatest football game ever made. I tried to muster that same enthusiasm for PES 2009, and very nearly did, although I really should have learnt my lesson from 2008 -- but I had hopes they would turn it around.... surely? For the first time in many years, I actually purchased a copy of the latest FIFA release, to see if that would quench my hunger for a football game that would keep my attention and enthrall me from the first play right up to the following year's release, just like it was in the old days.

Neither really did it for me however. Both undoubtedly had their qualities, but I've started to notice a worrying problem with the "evolution" of the football game: It just isn't fun anymore. Games are meant to be played for that very reason, and it seems that with the step up to the latest generation of consoles, games companies are seeking to attain that realism that is now possible. But I don't need a realistic football game; I have a genuine, real football and good mates to play with, and that's a lot more fun than twiddling some sticks on a pad with a game that tries to simulate that real game feeling.

When I play a game, I want it to take my mind off all the shit that's going on in my life; I want to wake up in the morning, go downstairs in my boxers, scratch my arse and play a fun game of football that makes me scream with joy at each goal I score and chuck my pad on the floor whenever I concede a goal. I don't want strategies, or balls that feel like you're kicking a rock around the pitch, even if all of that makes the experience more "realistic".

I downloaded the demo for FIFA 2010, and it's alright, a decent game but I know it won't keep me coming back all year. So I downloaded the demo for PES 2010, and since it was taking such an age to finish, I decided to give one of the older games a go, to see what nostalgic, child-like emotions I could conjure up, to see if it was as good as I had remembered: Did I really play PES 6 every day for a year? Did it really never leave my PS2? The first sign was when I opened up the case only to find it empty; the disc was still sitting in my dusty, old PS2, just where I had left it and where it had remained almost permanently since I first played it. So, being the lazy sod I am, I chose not to plug in the old beast and went instead for PES 5.

I got downstairs, inserted the disc and was welcomed with the old PlayStation 2 logo, then came the memories. The intro sequence featuring Kasabian's "Club Foot" was the first thing to get me pumped up, then came the title screen, with the voice-over that tells you exactly what you came to hear: You're playing "PRO! EVOLUTION! SOCCER! 5....." Well that got me all giddy again. So I played my first game, and feck me, it was amazing. Sure, the graphics are crap and there were occasions when my passes literally went in the opposite direction to where I'd told them to go, but what a FUN game. Is it realistic? Not a chance. Is it just like playing the real thing? No, and it's all the better for it. This isn't a football simulation and it doesn't intend to be, it's a computer game made for kids and big kids to chill out and simply enjoy.

Everything moved at about 10 times the speed of a real game, the ball pinged around the pitch like a bullet. You win possession and find the ball at the feet of your defender, you look down and see on that little radar at the bottom that you have a red dot moving free down the wing, so you hold L1 and triangle to hit the most ridiculously sublime chipped throughball the world has ever seen, right into the path of your winger. In the blink of an eye you have seen off the danger and created a chance for yourself. So you get to the byline and fire a cross into the box....... Your striker rises and..... HOLY SHIT you hit the bar and it sounds like you've hit a plank of wood!! The ball falls to one of their players and you're racing back with all your might, those little men, Rimaldo and co. are doing all they can but the game is just moving too quickly and the oppositon get to your area and shoot. Your goalkeeper pulls off an incredible fingertip save he had no right to make and the action begins again, all at lightning speed.


Eventually I decided it was time to hit the sack and I quit the game, only to remember that my PES 2010 demo had finished downloading. So I installed it, had a quick look at the new tactics and the fancy screens and I played one half of a match, then turned off my PS3. I felt like I'd spent all afternoon playing the latest relase, then given one of the ageing copies a go for old time's sake, when in fact it was the other way around. Everything was so slow, it felt heavy and dare I say it, boring? What has happened to the game I used to love, that took up so much of my youth? I think for the first time since I can remember, I won't be buying either FIFA or PES. You can keep those debates over which is the best of the newest releases, it's like arguing the case for the newest model of a FORD or FIAT car, when you could just as easily be driving around in an Aston Martin DB9 that's been sitting in your garage gathering dust for the last few years. I'm going to stick with PES 5 this time, or if I can summon up the energy, I may just give PES 6 a try.
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This post sums up everything i'm trying to say and does it a lot better than i ever could.
 
Yup, that is a good post, and I don't think it only applies to the footy games either. Remember games like V-Rally? Goldeneye? Well, while their modern day equivalents are still good fun they aren't even comparable. V-Rally split-screen 4 player shits all other DIRT2 for instance, and Goldeneye split-screen 4 player (for me) invokes memories that haven't been matched while playing Modern Warfare, Halo or any other big shooter that I can think of.
 
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