Pep's Barcelona vs Zidane's Real Madrid

Greatest club side ever?

  • Total voters
    581
Peps Barca should walk over this Real, but somehow they would come up winning in a tie between them, because their luck is just insane.

Messi, Xavi and Iniesta would probably get injured before the game and/or among the first few minutes while Puyol gets send off after his 2nd soft foul and Ronaldo scores a few offside goals and soft pens.
 
Barcelona of course. Their domination of La Liga and Europe puts them above Real Madrid. Plus the dominance of the football and the way they toyed with teams is what puts them ahead. You could only park the bus and pray. Real Madrid don't have that same aura of invincibility and there are some defensive frailties which have been exposed especially this season but they have match winners all over the pitch and a insanely strong squad.
 
I have voted for Zidane’s Madrid. peps Barca always seemed to have one plan which is pass and kill the opponents when they get tired of chasing. There were success stories against pep like inter Milan and man united winning major ties. Other coaches have outdone pep tactic at times.

Zidane has Madrid team playing in different formations and different tactics. Team seems to have flexibility to adjust like yesterday first 20 mins Madrid was almost in park the bus mode which they did effectively. Once they gained control their game plan was implemented using diamond. Once bale came in team transitioned quickly to 4-3-3 to devastating results. And this team will be strong for next 2 years due to the strong core.
 
Peak-wise, it has to be Barca in my opinion. Longevity-wise, it is Zidane's Madrid. They look weaker than one or two years ago but still an amazing team. How long they maintained their hunger and desire is outstanding. But they were never as dominant and untouchable as Pep's Barca.
 
Madrid are truly experts in peaking during shit eras when there is no one else around. Just like their first 5 CLs were glorified friendlies where teams did even decline the invitation to participate in the competition they are racking up CLs now when there is no one else around.

We can all agree that the best team in England is City yet they have no European experience whatsoever. Then comes what? This United team? Yeah, okay...
Bayern have declined a lot from the Heynckes treble days. They compete with two 35 year old wingers (or rather don't as they are never fit together anyway).
Barca are at their worst after Xavi, Iniesta and Alves retired/declined even though an overpowered frontline masked the flaws for 1 season.
Juventus have declined massively after losing their Pirlo-Vidal-Pogba-Marchisio midfield.

There is no great team out there and Real still manage to shithouse their way to these trophies with dodgy 93 minute penalties, 93 minute Ramos headers or unbelievable amateur mistakes at this level.

It was different 10 years ago:

Chelsea with Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Essien, Cech.
One of the best Inter Milan team's in history with Mourinho at his peak.
SAF's CL-winning United side with young Ronaldo.

Where are such teams now?

This Madrid team does not touch Heynckes Bayern (a much worse and older version without Neuer, Lahm, Robben absolutely tore Madrid apart) let alone Pep's Barca.
 
Vialli_92 said:
This, I never seen a team as dominant and as good as that Barca, they are easily 3 levels above this Real Madrid team
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If that's the case why did it take that red card to RVP and Ovrebo's special performance for them to win those two CL, and why was Pep's away record in Europe awful for all his time at Barca?

Surely the best team that played the best football ever should have been doing great at all levels, not just domestically.

EDIT:

I'll tell you why, it's because Man United looked hopeless against them on both ocasions and it hurt's a bit so you think what you want to make yourself feel better, but other remember that both Arsenal and Chelsea had the control in their games against Barca until ref's decided otherwise.
 
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Bole Top said:
with Pep's Barca it didn't matter what you had in your team because you couldn't really match the quality of prime Messi and Xavi & Iniesta. you could "only" beat them tactically, by defending and waiting your chances, rarely - if ever by outplaying them. you coudn't really last until ET or penalties against them, like you can with Madrid.

current Madrid side can be outplayed and they have rival that have a certain psychological advantage over them + even better player than Ronaldo. you couldn't say that for Pep's Barca. there weren't possible upgrades available on their best players neither there was team they were particularly scared of. they were just better than everyone.
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Instead of being better than everyone, they should have beaten everyone.

Achievements still count more than perceived domination on a football pitch and Zidane's Madrid have arguably achieved more in 2.5 years than Pep's Barcelona in 4 years.
 
Cait Sith said:
Madrid are truly experts in peaking during shit eras when there is no one else around. Just like their first 5 CLs were glorified friendlies where teams did even decline the invitation to participate in the competition they are racking up CLs now when there is no one else around.

We can all agree that the best team in England is City yet they have no European experience whatsoever. Then comes what? This United team? Yeah, okay...
Bayern have declined a lot from the Heynckes treble days. They compete with two 35 year old wingers (or rather don't as they are never fit together anyway).
Barca are at their worst after Xavi, Iniesta and Alves retired/declined even though an overpowered frontline masked the flaws for 1 season.
Juventus have declined massively after losing their Pirlo-Vidal-Pogba-Marchisio midfield.

There is no great team out there and Real still manage to shithouse their way to these trophies with dodgy 93 minute penalties, 93 minute Ramos headers or unbelievable amateur mistakes at this level.

It was different 10 years ago:

Chelsea with Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Essien, Cech.
One of the best Inter Milan team's in history with Mourinho at his peak.
SAF's CL-winning United side with young Ronaldo.

Where are such teams now?

This Madrid team does not touch Heynckes Bayern (a much worse and older version without Neuer, Lahm, Robben absolutely tore Madrid apart) let alone Pep's Barca.
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Simeone's Atletico, Juve, Barcelona, PSG and Bayern are all arguably better than Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012.

It's not really true that football is weaker now than it was back then.
 
Peyroteo said:
Simeone's Atletico, Juve, Barcelona, PSG and Bayern are all arguably better than Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012.

It's not really true that football is weaker now than it was back then.
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Bayern with half their starters out are not better than Inter in 2010. Neither are PSG.
 
Peyroteo said:
Simeone's Atletico, Juve, Barcelona, PSG and Bayern are all arguably better than Inter in 2010 and Chelsea in 2012.
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I was going to answer something similar to this but I was feeling lazy to work it out.

I also rate Klopp's Borussia Dortmund in 2013 and 2014 very highly. Also better than Inter and Chelsea in the years you mentioned.
 
adexkola said:
What's the trophy count?
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3 league titles, 2 Champions Leagues in 4 years for Pep's Barcelona

1 league title and 3 Champions Leagues in 2.5 years for Zidane's Madrid (they were like 10 points behind when he started coaching in his first season and finished just 1 point behind)
 
DesiBD said:
Bayern with half their starters out are not better than Inter in 2010. Neither are PSG.
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Bayern weren't missing half of their starters last year and PSG only missed Neymar for the second leg when they were already 3-1 down.
 
Barca side was phenomenal to watch and play against. Ferguson's Utd of the late 2000s would piss over this "treble winning" Madrid side. Ferguson couldn't touch Pep's Barca though. Understandably.
 
Peyroteo said:
3 league titles, 2 Champions Leagues in 4 years for Pep's Barcelona

1 league title and 3 Champions Leagues in 2.5 years for Zidane's Madrid (they were like 10 points behind when he started coaching in his first season and finished just 1 point behind)
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That's not equivalent to him winning 2 titles. He's won 1 La Liga title. He came close in one season, and ended up far behind in another season.

Copa Del Ray: Pep won 2. Zidane has won 0.

Now if none of those matter to you, of course 3 > 2 and Zidane wins out. I don't understand how he wins on any other basis.
 
gaucho_10 said:
If that's the case why did it take that red card to RVP and Ovrebo's special performance for them to win those two CL, and why was Pep's away record in Europe awful for all his time at Barca?

Surely the best team that played the best football ever should have been doing great at all levels, not just domestically.

EDIT:

I'll tell you why, it's because Man United looked hopeless against them on both ocasions and it hurt's a bit so you think what you want to make yourself feel better, but other remember that both Arsenal and Chelsea had the control in their games against Barca until ref's decided otherwise.
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Yeah, and the ref in the first leg in London waved off a clear Messi goal at 1-0 for a nonexistent offside, and i think there was at least one blatant penalty completely ignored (might have been in 2009/10 though). Alas, as usual, any mistakes that work against Barcelona are conveniently disregarded and forgotten.

In the second leg, Arsenal scored with a Busquets own goal in the 53' minute whilst having zero shots on goal in total up to that time. That's not control, simply put, more like lighting a candle and hoping for the best.

One could also nitpick every Real CL campaign and point out similar things throughout.
 
Cait Sith said:
Madrid are truly experts in peaking during shit eras when there is no one else around. Just like their first 5 CLs were glorified friendlies where teams did even decline the invitation to participate in the competition they are racking up CLs now when there is no one else around.

We can all agree that the best team in England is City yet they have no European experience whatsoever. Then comes what? This United team? Yeah, okay...
Bayern have declined a lot from the Heynckes treble days. They compete with two 35 year old wingers (or rather don't as they are never fit together anyway).
Barca are at their worst after Xavi, Iniesta and Alves retired/declined even though an overpowered frontline masked the flaws for 1 season.
Juventus have declined massively after losing their Pirlo-Vidal-Pogba-Marchisio midfield.

There is no great team out there and Real still manage to shithouse their way to these trophies with dodgy 93 minute penalties, 93 minute Ramos headers or unbelievable amateur mistakes at this level.

It was different 10 years ago:

Chelsea with Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Essien, Cech.
One of the best Inter Milan team's in history with Mourinho at his peak.
SAF's CL-winning United side with young Ronaldo.

Where are such teams now?

This Madrid team does not touch Heynckes Bayern (a much worse and older version without Neuer, Lahm, Robben absolutely tore Madrid apart) let alone Pep's Barca.
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Agree with that. It's easily the weakest era in champions league I've seen.

Compared to 8 or 9 years ago, there's a clear lack of great teams and iconic players at their peak that could stop this Madrid team.
 
adexkola said:
That's not equivalent to him winning 2 titles. He's won 1 La Liga title. He came close in one season, and ended up far behind in another season.

Copa Del Ray: Pep won 2. Zidane has won 0.

Now if none of those matter to you, of course 3 > 2 and Zidane wins out. I don't understand how he wins on any other basis.
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Yes, like I said. He's won 1 league title but it's not really fair to him to say he won 1 of 3 when he came in halfway through the season when they were already far behind.

It wins out because most fans of these two clubs would trade 2 league titles for 1 Champions League. The 2 copa del reys make it close but the fact Zidane's had 1.5 less years in charge means he's ahead for me.
 
Barcelona. How can Madrid be considered great when they're Barcelona's bitch domestically the past 10 years.

Champions of Europe but not even the best team in Spain :wenger:.

Disclaimer: I'm by no means pro Barcelona. I hate both shitty clubs equally.
 
Bole Top said:
they actually did, in all competitions - twice. something unreachable for Zidane's Madrid, at least so far.
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Pep's Barca did it once, not twice. And their biggest domestic opponents that year were a Madrid team that finished on 78 points and got spanked 5-0 by Liverpool in the round of 16 of the Champions League.
 
Peyroteo said:
Yes, like I said. He's won 1 league title but it's not really fair to him to say he won 1 of 3 when he came in halfway through the season when they were already far behind.

It wins out because most fans of these two clubs would trade 2 league titles for 1 Champions League. The 2 copa del reys make it close but the fact Zidane's had 1.5 less years in charge means he's ahead for me.
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What the fans want has no bearing on the question of what team was better.

A serious discussion of this topic would have trophies won as one aspect of the conversation. How good was each team on the pitch, against shit teams and against great teams, in the league and in Europe? How successful were they in imposing themselves on the competition? Level of consistency and ability to raise their game for the opposition? Those are questions that can be used to evaluate both sides, and I think that while Real comes out favorably in some counts that overall I'd give it to Barcelona. But the debate is a valid one.

When ones argument for Real's superiority is based on only the CL count, ignoring all other competitions, ignoring the actual play on the pitch and only looking at the final trinket... And then using fans' preferences as some sounding board... That tells me all I need to know about the validity of said argument.
 
Peyroteo said:
Pep's Barca did it once, not twice. And their biggest opponents that year were a Madrid team that finished on 78 points and got spanked 5-0 by Liverpool in the round of 16 of the Champions League.
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still, they did it. current Madrid side can't and they compete against worse Barca than Pep's.
 
adexkola said:
What the fans want has no bearing on the question of what team was better.

A serious discussion of this topic would have trophies won as one aspect of the conversation. How good was each team on the pitch, against shit teams and against great teams, in the league and in Europe? How successful were they in imposing themselves on the competition? Level of consistency and ability to raise their game for the opposition? Those are questions that can be used to evaluate both sides, and I think that while Real comes out favorably in some counts that overall I'd give it to Barcelona. But the debate is a valid one.

When ones argument for Real's superiority is based on only the CL count, ignoring all other competitions, ignoring the actual play on the pitch and only looking at the final trinket... And then using fans' preferences as some sounding board... That tells me all I need to know about the validity of said argument.
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I don't care what team was better and I wasn't arguing that, I care about what team achieved more.

Barcelona had better players that performed consistently at a higher level but Madrid achieved more. I also didn't ignore all other competitions as I blatantly said in my previous post.
 
Trizy said:
Barcelona. How can Madrid be considered great when they're Barcelona's bitch domestically the past 10 years.

Champions of Europe but not even the best team in Spain :wenger:.

Disclaimer: I'm by no means pro Barcelona. I hate both shitty clubs equally.
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1. Real don't care about the league (except when they win it and have open bus parades in 2008 and 2012)

2. Fans think 1 CL > 10 La Ligas

3. No one cares about the league outside of England. It's a glorified ticket to the CL group stage
 
gaucho_10 said:
I'll tell you why, it's because Man United looked hopeless against them on both ocasions and it hurt's a bit so you think what you want to make yourself feel better, but other remember that both Arsenal and Chelsea had the control in their games against Barca until ref's decided otherwise.
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FECK! This part hurts a lot but it’s the truth.

Not many here would admit it though.
 
I wouldn't bet on either Spanish side to beat Sacchi's Milan - which I think is the most complete club side ever.
 
MVBDX said:
Pep's Barca in away KO rounds (last 16, QF and SF) during four years won only twice in 12 matches = 16% win rate.

Zizou's Madrid in away KO rounds won 8 out of 9 matches = 89% win rate. That's unprecedented.

But rose-tinted glasses makes some of you forget all that, as one poster rightfully said playing in finals vs MU (in a MU message board) had an obvious effect on overhyping them and not seeing the bigger picture.

Re league comparisons, obviously this year hasn't been a good one for Zizou, but he won it last year, and won the year before as well by 10 pts!, if you count it from when he take the hel from freaking Benitez. So 2 out of 3 (if the emphasis is on what Zizou did) ain't bad by any measure.
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I looked like a mug yesterday with the Ronaldo stats but you've outdone me in 24hrs.

La Liga 2015–16 W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Barcelona (C) 38 29 4 5 112 29 +83 91
2 Real Madrid 38 28 6 4 110 34 +76 90
3 Atlético Madrid 38 28 4 6 63 18 +45 88
 
Pep’s Barca were a better team overall and probably the best club side in history. Zidane’s Madrid are the best cup team.

Madrid needed basically two own goals from Karius, while Pep’s Barca would’ve pissed all over that Pool side, even worse than they did us back in 2011.
 
I believe it is astonishing that Madrid is dominating because in 2011, Barca looked dead certain to dominate the next decade. They rejunevated the 2009 team, replacing Etoo and Henry without much fuss and Messi was only 23 with already two CLs to his name.

Barca and Messi should have won more CLs because as of now, Messi never dominated the world scene like his peers did. You have players like Di Stefano, Cryuff or Ronaldo winning 3 or more CLs in a row or players like Pele or Maradona dominating world cups along the way. It is not that Messi doesn‘t deserve to be in this company based on his performances, but his big trophies are some way behind. He has 2 CLs less than Ronaldo now, ffs

Madrid is a weird case because they are dominating while their best players are very old now. Ronaldo, Ramos, Modric and Benzema are all on the wrong side of 30 and still produce the goods.

Xavi had an unbelievably sharp decline as soon as he got older, outrun and outfought by many midfields. Iniesta lost his consistency on his old days, delivering some great performances on key occasions like the Cup final this year but all in all, his performances have not been good the past few seasons. Even Messi is declining, despite him still scoring and creating in LaLiga like no other. He isn‘t able to influence big games in CL like he used to in 2011, look at Roma this year or 180 minutes no goals against Juve last year.

I feel like Barca had a really great platform to dominate this decade with Messi, world class talent from La Masia like Xavi and Iniesta and they managed to grab Suarez and Neymar, the next best players of this decade. Somehow, they got it wrong along the way. I believe getting Cesc in 2011 was the starting point.
 
gaucho_10 said:
If that's the case why did it take that red card to RVP and Ovrebo's special performance for them to win those two CL, and why was Pep's away record in Europe awful for all his time at Barca?

Surely the best team that played the best football ever should have been doing great at all levels, not just domestically.

EDIT:

I'll tell you why, it's because Man United looked hopeless against them on both ocasions and it hurt's a bit so you think what you want to make yourself feel better, but other remember that both Arsenal and Chelsea had the control in their games against Barca until ref's decided otherwise.
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So damn true. It hurts but it's true .

Dumbstar said:
Barca side was phenomenal to watch and play against. Ferguson's Utd of the late 2000s would piss over this "treble winning" Madrid side. Ferguson couldn't touch Pep's Barca though. Understandably.
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See above.

For being such a good side we just barely won the CL semi v Barca and then the final against Chelsea. Given the second chance , Barca tactically outdid us in such fashion because we were naive maybe even arrogant in our approach and was just a matter of time.
 
Barca were better, definitely the best I've ever seen. But what Zidane has done is one serious achievement. He deserves an awful lot more credit than he is getting. He was tactically superb last night, Modric and Kroos had the composure to take the sting out of the game and make Liverpools pressing irrelevant. By adding Isco that gave them an extra body who was comfortable on the ball and taking liverpools press out of the game. He also saw karius as a weakeness, Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema all took pot shots early from distance which makes me thinks it was a plan to target Karius. Superb from Zidane IMO, but that Barce team that beat us in Wembley is the best Ive seen. And I think Iniesta was their most important player.
 
I think Ajax in the '70s, Sacchi's Milan and Pep's Barcelona will be viewed as more iconic football teams. This Real team will most likely be viewed similar to Bayern in the '70s and Liverpool's late '70s early '80s. Winning machine but not exactly the type of team that get that type of adulation and worship outside of their own fans.
 
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