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Pep's Barcelona vs Zidane's Real Madrid
- Thread starter sullydnl
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That Barca team were a monster, not taking anything away from Real amazing achievement to win 3 in a row but they couldn't have did this between 08-12.
Real are a brilliant side but i'd say United's 2011 side would have had a decent chance against them tonight better than Liverpool anyway, but in 2011 that United side were beat in what looked like a training exercise by Barca. It was sadly never in doubt.
Real are a brilliant side but i'd say United's 2011 side would have had a decent chance against them tonight better than Liverpool anyway, but in 2011 that United side were beat in what looked like a training exercise by Barca. It was sadly never in doubt.
Napoli > Bayern > Atletico > Juve
But when you factor in the group stage, Madrid this season had Spurs and Dortmund to contend with. Great for them to have proved it against the very best, as the Decima route was far easier.
Our 11-12 was pretty bad if I'm being honest with you, we beat a meh Chelsea side in the QFs and spanked a poor Schalke team in the semis. Our line up had Fabio, Park, Chicharito, Valencia, and Giggs in midfield. That team would get destroyed by this Real side.
Even our 08-09 final team was weakened by having Oshea, Park, Giggs and Anderson in the starting 11 (the former who didn't even make the squad in 07-08 and the other 3 who were subs).
We significantly downgraded unfortuantely from the 07-08 team to the 08-09 team and onwards by virtue of new signings and injuries. We were missing Scholes, Tevez, Brown and Hargreaves and it showed.
Also conversely put this Real team in Pep's years instead of the poor Real team then and Barca wouldn't have been as succesful as they were.
Sorry to quote, but that's not true and it does irk me when people say that. Our 07/08 final team was much, much better than our 08/09 team, not too mention the poor 11/12 team. See my post above.
Basically this comparison is a bit like Ronaldo vs Messi. Real have done an incredible job of amassing trophies and have written themselves into the history but between the two you'd have to pick Barcelona/Messi because they're quality just shades it and they've also got the medals to go with it.
Btw it's fine if you disagree with me, I'm not going to debate Ronaldo v Messi and I'm sorry if the thread turns into another comparison because of me but I thought it was an apt comparison.
As for Champions league only then yes the Real team is better than Peps Barca. Overall no for me but you can debate it and not sound mad.
Btw it's fine if you disagree with me, I'm not going to debate Ronaldo v Messi and I'm sorry if the thread turns into another comparison because of me but I thought it was an apt comparison.
As for Champions league only then yes the Real team is better than Peps Barca. Overall no for me but you can debate it and not sound mad.
Barcelona were the best team I've ever seen in my lifetime.
Barca crashed out to 6th place Chelsea in 2012.
I was referring to our 08/09 side, not the 10/11 (probably our weakest team to reach the final). There wasn't a huge difference in our 08/09 side compared to the 07/08, core was basically the same and do remember we absolutely cruised our way to a PL title (when there was actual quality in big 4 teams) and a CL final where we were well beaten by that Barca side.
Barca's overall quality of players in XI and play was higher but this Real side is more ruthless, things that are repeated ad nauseam in Messi v Ronaldo thread so it's a very good comparison imo.
Pep's Barca can do whatever they want, at the end Zizou's Madrid will get the result.
There are too many rose-tinted glasses looking at Pep's Barca, their away record in CL was simply horrible compared to Madrid.
Also remember the 4 consecutive Clasicos within 2 weeks? Barca won just one out of 4, and that was due to horrible refereeing with Pepe being sent off for a non-challenge on Alves' dive (also another legit goal by Higuain was ruled out in the away match, or that'd have been another win).
Now that Madrid side wasn't nearly as good as Zizou's Madrid, especially last season's version when they were at their peak.
There are too many rose-tinted glasses looking at Pep's Barca, their away record in CL was simply horrible compared to Madrid.
Also remember the 4 consecutive Clasicos within 2 weeks? Barca won just one out of 4, and that was due to horrible refereeing with Pepe being sent off for a non-challenge on Alves' dive (also another legit goal by Higuain was ruled out in the away match, or that'd have been another win).
Now that Madrid side wasn't nearly as good as Zizou's Madrid, especially last season's version when they were at their peak.
Madrid's mental strength and ability to win without playing well should count towards how good they are instead of being an afterthought and judging them purely on how they played on the pitch.
What's happening on the pitch rarely matters for them, this team always seems to find a way to get the result they need.
What's happening on the pitch rarely matters for them, this team always seems to find a way to get the result they need.
Only if you somehow think all trophies are worth the same
Yeah, not much is spoken about their terrible away record in CL for an all-time great team. I think reason why that side is slightly overrated on this board is because of the way they schooled us in 2 CL Finals.
Great point, even in tonight's match despite the intense pressure Liverpool put them early on. They didn't lose their head and start hoofing, displayed lot of composure to hang in there and eventually got into the game more. Even after giving away a cheap equalizer they carried on well, hallmark of a great team.
The comparison actually works because I think Ronaldo (vs Messi) and Real (vs Barca) have a higher level of determination and greater mentality in each case.
Ronaldo's sheer will to be the best and sheer determination to peg Messi back when it comes to Ballon d'ors and other personal feats and Madrid's sheer will to win even when under huge pressure is something that both Messi and Barca lack.
Even Messi himself recently said that Real are the best team at winning games even when they're struggling.
I put a lot of emphasis on the CL-Double....winning the CL without the League is fine and all, it happens. But when you do it 3 times out of 4, it tells a story of how much luck has played a part, Atletico truly should of split one of their finals, but Madrid did massively outplay Juventus and well yeah Madrid 16/17 team is up there, great team all round....this year was the luckiest CL I've likely ever seen....I mean if the final the luck turned their way with 2 howlers and opponents superstar injured early.
So with that Pep's Barca who for 4 years genuinely tried to win everything and were about 3 games short of playing every game they could of...far superior.
Statistically it won't say so, but that 08/09 team was so so so magic. World of football was barely prepared for it, even if they needed a shade of luck against super anti-football Chelsea to get what they deserved.
So with that Pep's Barca who for 4 years genuinely tried to win everything and were about 3 games short of playing every game they could of...far superior.
Statistically it won't say so, but that 08/09 team was so so so magic. World of football was barely prepared for it, even if they needed a shade of luck against super anti-football Chelsea to get what they deserved.
Trophies aside, Barca were a highly innovative side tactically wise. There is nothing innovative about this Madrid team. They have done extremely well to win 3 CL titles in a row but they haven't changed football one bit. A great team with a GOAT up front. That's all.
Anyone talking about Madrid getting lucky, they should remember a semi final that started the Barcelona dominance.
Barca should have won it in 2010. But Pep selling Eto and signing Ibra who didn’t suit his system ended up costing them.
They've just won three champions leagues in a row. I'd say that pretty much changes things.
The 08/09 side were just perfect. Eto'o, Henry and Messi as a front three.
I meant tactically wise. Didn't question the historical achievement.
Barcelona by far. They were completely dominant at their peak. This Real side? Very good, but I can't help but think their CL success has mostly been them having extreme amount of luck in all of 3 of their runs. They didn't dominate matches, they didn't really showcase that much, they just stumbled and stumbled in all of their matches and somehow won.
That was at the end of the cycle under Pep. 09-11 is the peak years with 10 when Mourinho did a brilliant job on them in the semis. Think they'd have beaten Bayern Munich in the final so they could've easily done three in a row themselves.
R. Madrid record in Europe is very good but they don't win domestic titles
They should never have gotten to the final in 2009. The biggest example of a con job by the referees I've ever seen.
IMO, Trophies rank you higher than another team but doesn’t actually mean you are better than that team.
Partly why I didn't begrudge Drogba finally getting his hands on the trophy.
According to an FBI report, A high profile CL game was subject to match fixing in 08/09...makes you wonder.
3 CLs in a row but 2 of them are a bit underwhelming tbh. Especially this one. I still dont know how they did it, they didn't look convincing at all or anything special but they won it. Barcelona on their day looked out of this world. So still Barcelona for me.
It’s barca for me. I have never been wow’d by this Madrid team. They have set a record that speaks for itself and you can never take that from them but they are no way the best club team I have seen in my 35 years.
In football with almost every club, changes are made from season to season and consistency is of major relevance to success. To not make a change that has negative impact and keep a winning formula over 3 years to win the CL is in fact innovative, as its never been done before. Luck, experience and a surrounding winning mentality combined with a team full of great players that all gel together almost perfectly. It is really impressive to archive this... and i think even more difficult to build and get consistent than Pep or Mourinho's formulas which almost tries to remove luck from the equation.
Barcelona, but I think as time pass by this Madrid team will get more credit than today and will be put at least on the same level. Maybe even higher.
When you win 4 out of 5 with 3 in a row you will go down in history books as one of the best club sides ever. And I am saying it as a person who isn't very fond of Real as a club.
When you win 4 out of 5 with 3 in a row you will go down in history books as one of the best club sides ever. And I am saying it as a person who isn't very fond of Real as a club.
Barca, but you can't underestimate how lucky they were to stumble over quite a few GOATish players and the GOAT in one go.
Xavi, Iniesta as two of the best midfielders of all time, Biscuits as the best DM of all time and Messi as the GOAT. Embarassment of riches.
Xavi, Iniesta as two of the best midfielders of all time, Biscuits as the best DM of all time and Messi as the GOAT. Embarassment of riches.
Still think Peps Barcelona is the best side ive seen. They were just a machine. Granted we should have done better the first final we played them. But the second final was pure torture by them on us.
Zidane has achieved more, but Pep easily had the better side.
Nah not for me mate and i'm talking about 2010-2011 United here. It was still a pretty good side, better than the one Liverpool that played tonight anyway. Rooney, Nani and Valencia in the form of their careers, Hernandez and Berbatov both getting 20+ goals and plenty of experience. Not saying they would beat this Madrid side but they would have had a better chance than a side with the likes of Henderson, Karius, Lalanna and Milner in it.
Possibly mate yeah, but i don't see how this Madrid side would have beaten that Barca side in 2009 & 2011. That team was just too dominant.
If it were Peps Barcelona versus this current Madrid team, would be very interesting to see who would come out on top. In ten games, i would say Barcelona would win six or seven times.
Was mentioned in mine bruv. But otherwise throughout that span, they comprehensively deserved it....especially the 10/11 win, with what is still likely Messi's finest hour in the semi in the biggest game of recent memory for both clubs really.
Theres not many CL wins that I don't feel haven't had luck, and as bias as it seems, I believe United have had the worst luck in my lifetime, shitty stuff happening in most exits - except not Sevilla and a couple others of course - but I would say in 08, 09, 11, 15 and 17 you genuinely had the best team in Europe winning....pretty much fairly. Three of those are Barcelona.
And yet Jose's won it twice - despite for me, not winning when he did create the best team in Europe(back to back years with Chelsea 05-06 and Real 2012).
Funny old sport.
Barcelona were technically the better team and played the better football, but this Madrid team is more efficient. They know how to win games.
Barcelona by a long way in fairness