I had no idea that he turned down Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, PSG and City to go and manage Liverpool. Thanks for bringing that to light.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
I had no idea that he turned down Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, PSG and City to go and manage Liverpool. Thanks for bringing that to light.
So bored of this argument. Pep proved himself at Barca B, end of.
This will be the first season since SAF left that we have achieved consecutive top 4 finishes. In truth we are where we should be. The 2nd highest squad value & the 2nd highest wage bill in the league. We have been the 2nd best team in the league.
It's going to be very difficult to bridge the gap from 2nd to 1st. Ole is not at the level of Klopp so we won't win the league with an inferior squad to City. The other option is giving Ole similar backing to what City have given Pep. There is more chance of Southampton winning the league than the Glazers giving Ole £300 Mill in 1 transfer window.
The argument on football club structure is for the birds. Chelsea hire & fire managers with different play styles regularly. They have still been successful. Liverpool have a structure in place. If they didn't have Klopp it's highly likely they'd still be waiting for another PL & CL win. City are held up as the standard of how to run a football club. The massive investment Pre-Pep only yielded 2 titles, for every Aguero that was signed there was a Bony, every Diaz a Mangala.
Poor City. Laporte and Dias were so little known. That’s why they cost peanuts.
Your post would make anyone think you were Leicester light. No one said you had 11 Mbappes, but the reality is that you always have a very good team on the pitch and at the same time an almost as good team on the bench. No one else comes close. Chelsea’s bench would be the closest but even their bench quality is inferior to your’s.
And oppo fans as regulars here should know by now not to take everything United fans write about their team at face value. Because if you did then you also have to believe Greenwood is a better player than Rashford and Sancho. Just read the Rashford thread if you want to know how knee jerk (United) fans can be.
You didn't prove anything he said in that post wrong though, and that's because he's right.
That City team is playing at the level they are because of Pep. Individually (and before this season) their players except for KDB weren't considered as great talents (which is not to say that they were horrible or not above average for most of them).
What nonsense. Their squad is so expensive for a reason. If they bought Dias for 15 mil and he turned out great then fair enough, but what City have done is far from it.
United bought Bruno and he took us to another level. He was no world beater before we bought him, playing in the Portuguese League at the age of 25.
But not many United fans give Ole credit for that. It’s all about how lucky he is to have Bruno.
Of course big transfers can fail so it’s a credit to the manager if they succeed. But the club made huge investment for a reason.
This thread is getting very weird. People are now trying to pretend City do not have a great squad. Only a blind person can’t see the quality they put on the pitch and their bench week in week out.
Everything in my post still stands. We don't have the best players in the world and in many positions we don't even have the best players in the league. None of our forwards are of the calibre of Salah, Son or Kane. We don't have a CAM like Bruno or full-backs of the level of Trent and Robertson. Ederson is no Alisson and we lack a Van Dijk-esque defender. Most would also agree that Pogba and Fabinho and Kanté would walk into our midfield. This is not even close to one of the best XIs in the world on paper but it plays like it because Pep is so good.
Other than De Bruyne none of our players in the Pep era have ever been near a world Team of the Year, put it that way. Not even close.
Most of City's squad were actually mostly bin men, tesco workers and carpenters until Pep picked them out of obscurity and turned them into world beaters.
Despite posting all this, you still can't prove that what he said was wrong.
How many City players do you often see in ballon d'or conversations?
As a unit, they're great because of the system. Individually they aren't (atleast they weren't before Pep elevated a lot them) except for KDB.
As for the prices of the players, you know damn well that factors like age, the club buying (considered rich), buy-out clauses, the players potentiel and the club selling are all taken into consideration. That's why some a lot of flops in football have been sold for a more expensive price than a lot of other successful players.
As for Bruno, he was the star of the Portugese league scoring over 30 goals the season before coming to United and was already a NT starter. He wasn't considered on the same level as KDB but he was already very well known.
The only reason people would think most of these players at City are "the best group of players" is because of what they've won under him, so it's basically a circular argument.
The logical extension of this argument is that United has an incredible squad.
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Why are you obsessed with balon d’or? The very best players usually don’t come to England. How many balon d’or winners or contenders do other PL teams have? United have won 13 PL titles but apart from Ronaldo (winner once while at United) and Becks (who was in the top 10 for a few seasons but never win it) we never had anyone in those balon d’or conversations.
How do I prove he is wrong? Nonsense is nonsense and does not need any proof. When someone is trying to prove a point that a team which has spent hundreds of millions on fullbacks does not have fullbacks as good as almost zero cost Trent and Robertson, then there is really no point to prove. Maybe just give Pep 200 mil more to spend on defenders and then come back again and say they are still not as good as Liverpool’s. Rinse and repeat.
We do have some very good players (some homegrown and some we spent big money on). Obviously we have also wasted a lot of money but those players have now mostly been sold or hardly play (they were bought by previous managers). But it is not me pretending how Bruno or Maguire were hidden gems or something like that when we have actually spent big money to get them.
Offcourse you can prove him wrong by telling us the level of each city player before playing under Pep, taking things like their stats, where they ranked amongst their peers playing in the same positions, etc... You'd only prove the point he was making if you do that and i suspect you already know it, which is why you aren't going into details about each City player.
You seem to equate the market value of players to their talent at the time they were sold, that's rubbish. Market value is often based on the potential of a player (which a lot of players never meet), and other things like buy-out clause, selling to a richer club, etc. Dias and Rodri weren't big names but were expensive because of buy-out clause, their age and potential, the same thing with Laporte.
Also what are you trying to imply in regards to Ballon d'or ? That there's an anti-PL bias? Nonsense... Offcourse PL players will be overlooked if they only win the league but don't do very well in CL or the NT competitions when there's one, but that goes for players in every other league.
You need to improve your reading skills it seems. And no, I am not going to waste my time telling you why City spent a fortune on each of their players. Neither am I going to tell you why the best players usually don’t come to the PL (no idea how you have turned this into an alleged anti PL bias). Use your own brain for stuff like this.So basically you have no real arguments then? Just like i thought.
It's actually because of the billions they've spent. And before you come in with "yeah but £80m on Maguire" type arguments, City simply purchase player after player in that mid-price band until they get someone who works. Just look at their defence as an example of this.
Other clubs can't afford to do that.
That's not a logical way of looking at things. Otherwise Mendy would be better than Zinchenko.
And it's been proven that City's transfer record under Pep has been very good, with very few flops.
'Until they get someone who works' makes it sound like Guardiola has been going at it forever like a monkey in front of a typewriter. City won the PL with a points record, goals record, and goal difference record in his second season (2017-2018).
The starting defense against PSG was Walker-Stones-Dias-Zinchenko. City already owned Zinchenko and Stones in 2017, and bought Kyle Walker that summer. On the final against Spurs, they played Laporte, who they also bought in 2017, and Cancelo. What am I supposed to be scandalized at here?
Most neutrals agree every year you have the best squad it’s why your favourites for everything, you may not buy players who are considered ‘the best’ but your squad is full of Van Dijk and Bruno type signings and if one doesn’t quite cut it or is out of form they’re replaced by another.
You can’t honestly think naming a billion pounds worth of talent was gonna draw sympathy for what poor old Peps had to work with
Doesn't mean the assumption can't be analyzed.
It's very factual to point out that most of City's squad are individuals that aren't rated as well compared to their peers. And when most neutrals say stuff like "omg they have Aguero on the bench", ignoring the fact that Aguero has been a non-entity this season, their opinion isn't worth much really.
Plus, take a look at the first 10 pages of the City thread this season. The consensus was that their squad was trash!
Since Guardiola came in;
City’s net spend: £543 million
United’s net spend: £504 million
City’s major honours: 3 Premier League titles, 1 FA Cup, 4 league Cups
United’s major honours: 1 Europa League, 1 League Cup.
Being able to afford lots of very good players and thus having more depth than all other clubs can certainly explain how City can be competitive across so many different competitions and win multiple titles per season.
But I don't think it can explain why they play the best football, score the most goals, and generally clobber their opposition in a single game. That's management.
Having the amount of resources that City provides is very helpful at having a squad with full depth, but it is no the only way you can achieve that. And yet most managers don't try to maximize the depth of the squad, they will rather spend the money on a starter than on two semi-starters. Am I meant to believe that Guardiola figured out One Weird Trick To Win and it's simply Have A Larger Number Of Good Players? C'mon!
Exactly.
The whole 'City just spends a lot of money on finding a defender that works!" thing partly comes from Stones and how shit he looked back in the day. He's still a starter for City!
But I don't think it can explain why they play the best football, score the most goals, and generally clobber their opposition in a single game. That's management.
Having the amount of resources that City provides is very helpful at having a squad with full depth, but it is no the only way you can achieve that. And yet most managers don't try to maximize the depth of the squad, they will rather spend the money on a starter than on two semi-starters. Am I meant to believe that Guardiola figured out One Weird Trick To Win and it's simply Have A Larger Number Of Good Players? C'mon!
Exactly.
The whole 'City just spends a lot of money on finding a defender that works!" thing partly comes from Stones and how shit he looked back in the day. He's still a starter for City!
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The argument would be more valid I guess if their peers all played for the same side but they don’t, you’d be lucky to get 2 or 3 and then the rest of the squad is padded out with less talented players than City. I’m not buying the narrative of the players mentioned were considered average or unknown before signing for city minus Zinchenko, we’re talking full internationals here who performed to a high/world class level previously. I’m not downplaying Peps achievements by saying it either, he’s a great coach who I would’ve welcomed to Utd but the need to try and exaggerate what he’s done to make him sound better is odd.
It’s not the greatest example I know but if Utd signed Rice, Torres, Grealish and Sancho this summer do you think Utd fans or any fans for that matter wouldn’t expect trophies because these players aren’t the best in their respective positions, highly unlikely.
With regards to looking on here, seriously? There’s a thread titled the downfall of TAA and Ole is either a PE teacher or the future depending if we win or lose. So the fact people were under rating the squad because of a poor start is hardly unexpected.
A stretch? He won with that same core group 2 CLs within 4 years, and you think it is a stretch to win with that core group again if we gave him another 5-10 years? He got beaten by Jose how many times to the title when they were both in Spain?
It is fine to be biased against him, everyone has their own preference, but at least be objective about it.
Absolutely a stretch to "assume" he'd win it. Given he didn't manage it at Treble winning Bayern. Facts are on the side of him not winning it rather than your fantasy wish. That core group? You realise Barcelona only won one more CL after that under Enrique who has a stunning and historic year right? It's not like CL grew on trees for Barcelona's core group.
Clearly you're the one who has feck all objectivity on the topic deciding to hand out hypothetical CL to managers out of love and generosity, I presume.
He won what he did that decade. It was a hell of a lot. Strange how some of you can't take that he didn't excel in the CL during the Bayern years and feel the need to pretend he would have otherwise but for big bad Bayern
Ok then. I can play this game too. Do you think SAF could have done what Pep had done in Barca? I very much doubt it.
Afterall, he did not managed any clubs outside the british isles, he wasn’t thrown directly into the deep ocean like Pep did and had instant success and had to learn his ropes via smaller teams. His own treble winning side in 1999 did not win the ucl again after winning the treble, unlike what Pep has done with his Messi driven side.
Based on this criteria, it is easy to see that SAF can only guarantee success in the British Isles and had to rebuild his team everytime he does have European success.
Koeman seems to be getting the sack. The club is in shambles. One of the greatest manger Pep, who loves barcelona and calls it his own country does not want to manage that team.
It will take a lot to get the Pep Guardiola is my idol out of city
It will take a lot to get the Pep Guardiola is my idol out of city
But you cited neutrals' opinions as a reliable source
Let's be honest, for many this isn't a topic that can be discussed without bias.
True but keep in mind he spent that money on top of already having a great squad. They had a core of Kompany, Sterling, Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Yaya, Silva, Aguero before he even joined.
Not saying that’s Pep’s fault, he inherited a great squad but they‘re years ahead of us in terms of player quality and it was even worse 3 years ago.
Well of course Pep who was always close to Barcelona is more suited to managing that club from the get go than Sir Alex would be in the same situation. I don't know why anyone would deny. Could Sir Alex have managed similar success? God knows. He's certainly for the track record throughout his career. He was immaculate under pressure. That he was capable of raising a small club from nowhere to greatness (Aberdeen), build a footballing empire (Manchester United) and maintain high pressure instant success (again Manchester United), shows that he was the best of many different worlds rather than good at one specific thing
Sir Alex did what was more difficult and continued to win at a club throughout its difficult phases. It would have been easier for him to walk off at the sign of trouble the way Jose and Pep do, and rack up easy league titles elsewhere if United was at the end of the cycle. That's a luxury they had and he didn't opt for.
Saying SAF can only win in Britain is a bit like saying Messi can only perform in Spain. Not surprising to see that parallel as people are desperate discredit the greatest manager in football history and definitely the best footballer by far I've ever seen.
Plus we've spent poorly. Using our bad spending under our useless owners to play down City's spending is such a lame and illogical claim.
If some drunk also had a blank cheque book when Jose bought everything in sight at Chelsea, and spend it badly given he's a bit of a drunk, it wouldn't change the fact that Mourino and Chelsea did manage to buy league titles. It's just that they had some useless company trying to do it badly.
So Pep has spent nearly double the amount in 5 seasons as what Sir Alex did in 22 seasons. Even with inflation that's insane.
Manchester United have also spent double the amount in 5 seasons that SAF did in 22 seasons. With very little to show for it.
That’s just the last 5 years. I think Man United spent a lot of money between 2013 and 2016 as well.
And?? Are United fans claiming that José or Ole (who have been managers in this period) are as good as or even close to SAF?
We know we won stuff under SAF despite the Glazers, not because of them. The years since 2013 (right manager appointments and transfer approach are also their responsibility) prove it if a proof was even needed.
fecking hell this thread just goes round and round in circles.
- Pep spent a lot of money weh weh
- so did Man Utd weh weh
- but we’re shit weh weh
- Fergie spent lots weh weh
- Fergie built five teams weh weh
- pep plays amazing football weh weh
- pep inherited a great squad weh weh
- city were ageing before pep weh weh
At this stage I’m convinced some of our resident city fans, like @adexkola etc are reopening it to make it seem like we talk about city a lot on here.
- Pep spent a lot of money weh weh
- so did Man Utd weh weh
- but we’re shit weh weh
- Fergie spent lots weh weh
- Fergie built five teams weh weh
- pep plays amazing football weh weh
- pep inherited a great squad weh weh
- city were ageing before pep weh weh
At this stage I’m convinced some of our resident city fans, like @adexkola etc are reopening it to make it seem like we talk about city a lot on here.
Kompany was injury prone and featured in less than 50% of the league matches 3 seasons in a row under Pep.
Sterling was potential and had an average season before Pep arrived, was not until a year under Pep he started to perform at a high standard.
Fernandinho was not near a top player either.
Toure was at the end of his career and nowhere near the player he once was.
Lets not continue this myth about a 'great squad' he inherited. It was a squad that finished 4th, needed a complete rebuild bar a few players. Some act like he had prime Toure, Kompany, Sterling etc when he took over. Completely inaccurate.
I could argue United had a great squad using such examples as Martial, DDG, Depay, Mata, Rooney, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Shaw, Rashford, Herrera and Valencia being there...
What? This thread is recycled and bumped every time Guardiola had a bad result or on the contrary wins stuff mainly from some bitter bitter United fans or WUMs. They just dont have any other way to cope with the situation except to show their salty bitterness..