I dont know how much of it is on Pep (though presumably a fair bit since the team is mostly all players that he has bought) but I just feel like this Man City team has no fight in them. I don't know if I'd go as far as bottlers but they certainly aren't the team that outfight their opponents. They have so much quality in both their first and second XI, its no wonder they do so well domestically, they're perfect for a league campaign because the quality in their side can blow away the bottom half of the league and a fair bit of the top half. But when they can't just outclass their opponents they don't really seem to have the fight in them to win the game anyway.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
Absolutely amazing manager. His lineup was strange, but mistakes happen, Ferguson made mistakes in his lineups against Guardiola. Even the best make mistakes. He will learn from it.
Chelsea are a strong and well-drilled team under Tuchel. No shame in losing to them.
Guardiola's football is more than results, it's a visionary style of play and there is nothing like it when it's at its best. Tuchel is just results driven, very pragmatic and boring football. I know whose team I'd rather watch as a fan of football.
Chelsea are a strong and well-drilled team under Tuchel. No shame in losing to them.
Guardiola's football is more than results, it's a visionary style of play and there is nothing like it when it's at its best. Tuchel is just results driven, very pragmatic and boring football. I know whose team I'd rather watch as a fan of football.
Where is the white part
Pep bottles CL year after year while spending big and having two absolutely outstanding teams, arguably the best squads in these years. If thats the consequence of his vision, why would anyone want it?
Also he was not brought in for domestic titles, obviously. His lack of success on the international stage stains his carreer quite a bit.
Pep is a great manager, but he was out coached tonight. It would be mad from City to sack him because literally there's no one better to substitute him. But this must feel like a wasted opportunity for them, can only imagine the frustration of knowing the reaches and potential of the squad and how they performed during the season only to performe the way they did on the biggest game of the season.
PepAnnoying to lose. But Chelsea are a good team, it was always a possibility.
He wont get sacked, more likely he'll ask for a striker and get one.
You'd be mad to sack him after winning the league just because he didn't win the FA Cup and Champions league and if we did, who would we replace him with?
He wont get sacked, more likely he'll ask for a striker and get one.
You'd be mad to sack him after winning the league just because he didn't win the FA Cup and Champions league and if we did, who would we replace him with?
It doesn't stain Ferguson's career.Where is the white part
Pep bottles CL year after year while spending big and having two absolutely outstanding teams, arguably the best squads in these years. If thats the consequence of his vision, why would anyone want it?
Also he was not brought in for domestic titles, obviously. His lack of success on the international stage stains his carreer quite a bit.
Also, what about the likes of Sacchi? Amazing work at Milan, but his career after that was very disappointing, he wished he would have had Guardiola's career. Yet still considered a legend.
I don't think that many coaches ever won more than 1 or 2 UCLs.
Still, Guardiola messed up today big-time. There are no excuses for today, none.
He won't be sacked that would be ridiculous, but his team selection yesterday was utter madness.
Putting an out of form Sterling up front and going without a proper DM against the worst possible team for him to face in a one-off game was beyond mind boggling. You just can't put 5 attacking midfielders and 4 defenders against this Chelsea team and expect anything from the game. He's too smart for his own good and just never learns. He had found the right formula throughout the season and the PSG game should have ended any discussion about who were going to start the final, bar Fernandinho/Rodri to an extent. Yet he felt the need to mess with his team instead of just playing his football.
Tuchel came out with his best XI and won.
It's possible that he has taken you as far as he can. He has done well building your squad into what it is today, but someone like a Tuchel wins the CL with that squad. You had a pretty easy run this year, bar PSG but they completely shit the bed. Or maybe he'll walk next year after getting eliminated again.
There comes a point where you need players with passion alongside their talent.
This is an issue for City, we all know why those players are there; paycheque’s and an easy ride. Just like PSG, they’ll never dominate Europe until they get players who care about the badge.
This is an issue for City, we all know why those players are there; paycheque’s and an easy ride. Just like PSG, they’ll never dominate Europe until they get players who care about the badge.
Not to be offensive or anything, but obviously it kind of does stain even Ferguson's carreer. But in his case to a much lesser extent than Pep's, since Ferguson's achievements and milestones are basically singular in world football history and will most likely always be unique.
Pep's won't. Currently he's a great manager that showed he can win domestic titles with world class players and the UCL with arguably the best 11 that ever played this game. The two squads with significant additional investment that Pep inherited were - I know, I'm repeating myself here, but honestly you can't stretch this enough - packed with proven world class players. There's no excuse. The dominant performance from Heynckes' Bayern should not be forgotten in this context. That was just a few months before Pep took over. He made them a worse side in a very short time due to his approach at the game. I find it actually quite an underachievement that this Bayern core never won another UCL again and that's down to Pep. Domestic titles are a great achievement and Pep is no fraud or whatever is sometimes claimed on this board, but he simply doesn't show he can do it on the international stage in these high pressure knockout games, Barcelona for obvious reasons excluded. I tend to say, he does actually show that he's not able to do it (bar having 09-11 Messi and other top 50 all time players in his squad), he's proven this quite often in the last 7 years - many times because of errors he himself made, not his players. His system, his vision and his playstyle are nowadays known for overthinking and weird decisions in knockout games.
He outsmarted himself again, it's almost tragic.
Well Sean Goater and Mike Summerbee are too old now aren't they? Better wait 10 years for the next generation of kids who grew up watching City.
He's the genius we can't comprehend.
What's strange about it is it was so obvious that was where he went wrong in the last few CL campaigns, so you'd think at this point he'd just get out of his own way, keep it simple and fight off whatever those tendencies are. If the average fan can see he overcomplicates things in this moment, surely he knows it?
It's a big black mark on his career at this point. Struggles to win big knockout ties when he has the better team because he confuses his own team at the last minute. Still think he's great but that can't just be brushed away. I think we might quit City this summer.
Its an excellent haul that we'd kill for over the next 5 years. In an above post i drew a comparison between pellegrini and mancinis combined record versus guardiolas. His is of course better but there's a fair discussion to be had about whether its better to the tune of 850m, and the spine of his team already being in place with transfers by predecessors.
Another point on the Fergie v Pep comparison is that the latter has never been in any danger of losing his best player.
SAF’s greatest ever team had its best player poached at the height of its powers. Imagine if Pep had lost Messi in 2010...
SAF’s greatest ever team had its best player poached at the height of its powers. Imagine if Pep had lost Messi in 2010...
Narcissus.
They cant sack him because they've gone all in with him, the entire club structure is built around having him as manager. When they took over they looked at who the best team in Europe was and thought 'we want to do that'. Ever since then they've been working towards it, hiring other ex Barcelona guys where possible. If Pep goes, who comes in to continue that style they've set everything up for?
I think the plan is to keep throwing money at him, give him enough time and billions and its inevitable he will eventually win it.
I think the plan is to keep throwing money at him, give him enough time and billions and its inevitable he will eventually win it.
Brilliant manager. Utterly weird (and wonderful) to watch him screw the pooch so badly last night, though. He builds sides that tend to be machined in the league but just can't seem to get over the kind in the CL. He was his own worst enemy last night.
There are various reasons why such comparisons are flawed.
I think this has been covered but just to get a chance at the Champs League Fergie had to win United its first league in 25 years. When has Pep ever had to overcome such an obstacle just to qualify for the thing?
Sacchi similar, he had to win Milan their first title in nearly a decade to qualify. Then managed during the era when only Champions qualified.
Under those rules City wouldn't have even been in this years Champs League.
This isn't to denigrate Pep but you have to acknowledge things have changed.
It's easier now. Even more so for this group of managers who zip around the biggest and richest clubs, pretty much qualifying automatically.
That's not just Pep. Tuchel for example had yet to win a title that means anything but finds himself at two clubs that can financially compete with anyone in the world. Chelsea have just about scraped 4th spot for two year running yet they're champions of Europe. If he wants it Zidane will probably be able to do the same. Extremely privileged positions these guys are in.
Compare that to what Fergie had to do to get his chance in the competition.
All this kind of stuff(and more) has to be mentioned if you want to do trophy comparisons between managers.
As much as I hate to say it, I don't think players go to City for the pay check now. That was the initial batch but that group of Kompany, Toure, Silva and Aguero legitimized them for players (if not for fans).
If I weren't a United fan I'd look at City as an opportunity to work under a great manager with great infrastructure, competiting for honours in the best league in the world. PSG on the other hand just looks underwhelming as the league is so rubbish, without the history of Bayern I think it will always be somewhere that struggles to attract non mercenaries.
Can’t buy that. For most of Fergie’s career, the CL was pretty much the same as it is now. United were in it every season. The reason he only won 2 is because it is very difficult.
Incredible how delusional one can be
Even if that goes in there would still be questions asked, and there would still have been a great chance that Chelsea still win it.
Balague is a loyal loyal dog.
Fergie was 58 before the top 4 could qualify. So that's just not correct.
It is difficult to win, nobody says anything different. But it's even more difficult when you have to win your club its first title for 25 years just to qualify.
To suggest Pep, Tuchel or Zidane are operating in the same conditions as previous managers betrays your bias I'm afraid.
You can acknowledge today's managers like the three I mentioned above are operating in different circumstances to the guys 25 years ago. It's ok to do that, it won't damage Pep's reputation.
No Messi, no party.
Will be given £350million more to spend this summer no doubt.
What a bald idiot.
Will be given £350million more to spend this summer no doubt.
What a bald idiot.
Then you don’t really know the rules back then. SAF was at United for 26 years. However due to only league winners being allowed in the CL until 1996 he could qualify for the CL only in 19 seasons. Two of them (1993 and 1994) were with the foreigner rule.
So he won 2 CLs out of 17/19 which is basically 2 in 2 decades which is what most of the very best managers have apart from Ancelotti and Zidane.
The difference being that he actually won it when United had a very good team.
Pep however has had several years by now when he had a very good team cruising in their leagues since leaving Barca and has still not won it without some of the best players ever.
Unlike SAF Pep is also hailed as a tactical genius. So why is his CL record not better than it is?
United hadn’t won the CL for 18 years before SAF became United manager and hasn’t won it in the 8 years since he retired.
Barca won the CL 2 years before Pep became their manager and 3 years after he left.
Bayern won the CL 1 year before Pep became their manager and 4 years after he left.
No matter how you look at it, Pep has failed in the CL since leaving Barca especially taking into account the incredible quality of the squads he has managed since. Yes CL is difficult to win, but a so called super tactician should have won it more often.
Super tactician? Nope! Top class league manager/coach (with the best squad in the league)? Yep.
Nonsense, this kinda thing is as stupid as all the idiotic fraud posts.
He got it wrong, it's not hard to say Balague, I wouldn't change him for any other manager but yet again he got it wrong.
And if it was 50 cm higher what then ?
Says everything that instead of being impartial he's ran to a sliced weaker foot volley from mahrez in the 95th min like it justifies the whole match that happened before it.
What an anal distinction.
So Fergie won it twice in 2 decades and PG has won it twice in 12 years. Ok.
Problem, GB is overlooking is that if Chelsea had a finisher it could've been a 4-0 beat down.
That’s such a load of rubbish, the narrative would be that Pep almost ruined his own chances to win it because they were poor on the night. Terrible performance from City.
Not to mention Pep was never knocked out of the group stages. No such black mark on his career so far unlike the “GOAT” manager here
The circumstances may be different. That’s not the point. The question is, ‘how many times can a manager realistically win the European Cup?’
If we look at the entire history of the competition, the answer appears to be ‘three’. Whichever era you are talking about.
That’s the point.
Yep if you like it that way.
You could also say PG hasn’t won it for a decade despite taking over treble winners at Bayern and having the best squad in Europe at City.
Wouldn’t actually surprise me at all if he doesn’t win it with City and the next guy wins it with them in his first couple of years.
So, hiring the arguably greatest manager ever and spending more than 800 million on transfers elevates a side that won two titles and reached one CL semi in five years to a side that wins three titles and reaches one CL final in five years.
He truly is a miracle worker, remarkable return on investment.
He truly is a miracle worker, remarkable return on investment.