'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

sullydnl said:
I'm not sure there's any other manager in world football who could win three PL titles in four years (having already won three Bundesliga titles in three years) and still be criticised for "failures outside of Spain". Even in the context of comparing him to the greatests of all time, that's an insane way to frame what has been a ludicrously successful career as a manager.

If that's the standard for "failures" then literally every manager in the history of football has awful failures in their career, no doubt starting with SAF and his inability to win more than two CLs in 26 years while lesser managers racked up as many or more in shorter periods of time. You can disqualify pretty much anybody by focusing in on the flaws in their CV.
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I said failures because winning the league/cup with either Bayern or City are a bit of a prerequisite.

The money spent and somewhat domestic dominance City and Bayern have makes me look at them and expect them to win the league and a cup or two as a bare minimum. European excellence is what both strive for above anything else as the CL is the pinnacle of club football.

His teams performance in Europe has been not good enough over a sustained period since he left Spain and leaves him with questions still to answer. Eg can he do it without prime Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc.
 
wise_old_man said:
Tell a lot about us if we lost the League Title to a team with "no fight in them", I'm afraid.
It's us who constantly shows we have "no fight" by bottling all these chances at silverware.
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Well I mean there's plenty to criticise about us, but what I meant by no fight in them was that they'll comfortably beat 14 or 15 teams out of 19 I the league every season with very few blips, thats why they've assembled such enormous points totals, you see it with all of Pep's teams, extraordinary in league situations, I mean even in our heyday under Fergie you always felt there was he possibility we could drop points to the lower teams but in pressure situations we were unmatched.

Guardiola's teams have the opposite, they can usually outclass most opposition they face but they don't seem to have much fight when that doesn't work for them. Obviously there will be a few exceptions but largely they win games by having more sheer quality rather than outfighting their opponents
 
Swoobs said:
I found it funny that a factual statement triggered so many people, and that same factual statement is an utter shite to these same people because it doesn’t suit their group think and echo chambering.

Just because this is RedCafe, not Bluemoon or RAWK, just because Pep screwed up yesterday, doesn’t change the fact that SAF did not get out of the group stages in the UCL once in his career.

Just because you folks here did not like it, doesn’t mean it did not happen. Don’t be ostriches.
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Seeing as you can’t read contextual clues, I’ll spell it out for you; what annoyed me wasn’t the fact that Fergie was knocked out at the CL group stages, it was the insinuation that that feat expelled him from a potential GOAT discussion, as your use of “” suggested.

thoughts?
 
Tbh it's becoming impossible to compare managers from almost different eras. Fergie or maybe Wenger were the last of their kinda in terms of ''building'' a club up or even having such insane control over a football club and those days are long gone now. Things like Fergie Cup winners Cup with Aberdeen are becoming almost impossible, so expecting Pep to achieve something similar is denying how football has change and similarly just comparing cup wins between Pep and Fergie is to completely ignore the domination by the ''legacy clubs'' and billionaire owners in the modern game, yes Pep achievements with Barca were great but also Luis Enrique won a treble there and Bayren have won the last 9 Bundesliga.

Comparing the two is a bit meaningless.
 
Swoobs said:
I found it funny that a factual statement triggered so many people, and that same factual statement is an utter shite to these same people because it doesn’t suit their group think and echo chambering.

Just because this is RedCafe, not Bluemoon or RAWK, just because Pep screwed up yesterday, doesn’t change the fact that SAF did not get out of the group stages in the UCL once in his career.

Just because you folks here did not like it, doesn’t mean it did not happen. Don’t be ostriches.
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"Agenda" (or group think)
"Echo chamber"

We've got a live one chaps
 
Berbaclass said:
The money spent and somewhat domestic dominance City and Bayern have makes me look at them and expect them to win the league and a cup or two as a bare minimum. European excellence is what both strive for above anything else as the CL is the pinnacle of club football.
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It's strange that this is what both clubs strive for above anything else and yet neither of them have sacked Guardiola.
 
Peo won his UCLs by beating SAF on both occasions, surely he could have had more had SAF not retired
 
sullydnl said:
I'm not sure there's any other manager in world football who could win three PL titles in four years (having already won three Bundesliga titles in three years) and still be criticised for "failures outside of Spain". Even in the context of comparing him to the greatests of all time, that's an insane way to frame what has been a ludicrously successful career as a manager.

If that's the standard for "failures" then literally every manager in the history of football has awful failures in their career, no doubt starting with SAF and his inability to win more than two CLs in 26 years while lesser managers racked up as many or more in shorter periods of time. You can disqualify pretty much anybody by focusing in on the flaws in their CV.
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It is not insane at all. What so many people seem to forget when judging managers is to judge them not only on verbatim results but against the resources and circumstances they are in.

Bayern have won the last nine Bundesliga titles and have won a CL either side of Pep's reign and no CLs under him. Did he elevate them in terms of results? No.

City won 2 Premier Leagues in 5 before Pep joined and 3 in 5 under him. They reached one CL semi before him and one final under him. Did he elevate them in terms of results? Marginally, but not enough, given how much they spent in the meantime.
 
Are you suggesting that Manchester City cannot afford to fire Pep Guardiola because of the fees?
 
welshwingwizard said:
As much as I hate to say it, I don't think players go to City for the pay check now. That was the initial batch but that group of Kompany, Toure, Silva and Aguero legitimized them for players (if not for fans).

If I weren't a United fan I'd look at City as an opportunity to work under a great manager with great infrastructure, competiting for honours in the best league in the world. PSG on the other hand just looks underwhelming as the league is so rubbish, without the history of Bayern I think it will always be somewhere that struggles to attract non mercenaries.
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Hence why I also said an easy ride.
Still getting paid big money, “compete” as part of the most financially doped club on earth.

I can watch them play and the only person with any passion in the team is Pep.The players just want to turn up and claim a free piece of silverware.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Are you suggesting that Manchester City cannot afford to fire Pep Guardiola because of the fees?
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They can both afford to fire him of course but it would be a blow for Bayern due to money and for City due to FFP. You simply dont fire a manager on such wages for failing to win the CL.
 
Judas said:
Well Sean Goater and Mike Summerbee are too old now aren't they? Better wait 10 years for the next generation of kids who grew up watching City.
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Academy players will be necessary I think.
Even then it’s a toss up. Are they part of the academy because they actually love the club, or because they have the most advanced youth setup - which would then relay back to the ‘having an easy ride’ point.

When your club is built on financial doping and not history, it’ll take some years to build a club people want to be a part of for the right reasons.

UCL success would help with that, so to get to that level City will have to do it with a passionless squad and keep up their success until they’re seen im the same light as a Real Madrid, Liverpool FC, Bayern and Manchester United. Etc

History creates passionate fans and in turn, passionate players.
 
He surely has a tendency to overthink stuff and sabotage himself, I think it's hilarious and maybe has some mental block when it comes to the UCL. I don't know if this will affect him as it seemed like his best shot to win the thing so we will see if he can shake this off and his team is able to reach another final. For a team like Manchester City I feel like making to the semifinals regularly should be set as a standard and their goal every season if they're serious about winning the thing one day.
 
Does anyone genuinely see a scenario where he doesn’t see out his contract? Let’s say for instance City don’t win the league and fall in the CL quarter final next year do you think they would consider replacing him or do you think he’s there til he wins it?
 
gazbradley said:
Does anyone genuinely see a scenario where he doesn’t see out his contract? Let’s say for instance City don’t win the league and fall in the CL quarter final next year do you think they would consider replacing him or do you think he’s there til he wins it?
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He’ll see out his contract then probably sign an extension. I don’t think he’ll leave for a good couple of years, until he gets bored essentially.
 
RedDevilzFox said:
I don't spend all day here, probably sum total of 30 mins a day. I love united and would like to be where you can have an open minded discussion. Loving fergie and united doesn't preclude me from admiring others.
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And you spend your precious newbie posts defending Pep and City. :lol:
 
gazbradley said:
Does anyone genuinely see a scenario where he doesn’t see out his contract? Let’s say for instance City don’t win the league and fall in the CL quarter final next year do you think they would consider replacing him or do you think he’s there til he wins it?
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I would've said a Barca return could be on the cards but they look to be in a bit of a mess at the moment so there's no chance he'll take a job on where he has to overcome some adversity.
 
Hound Dog said:
They can both afford to fire him of course but it would be a blow for Bayern due to money and for City due to FFP. You simply dont fire a manager on such wages for failing to win the CL.
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We are saying that both Bayern Munich and Manchester City hire managers for a specific objective, but the contract they offer those managers prevents them from actually doing anything if the manager does not fulfill that objective.

That seems implausible.

You know what's more plausible is that they think the manager is doing a good job.
 
He has objectively failed so far hasn't he?

Which is mad to say given how good they've been in the league but his main ambition and objective will have been to win the Champions League.

I still think he'll get it for them though. Next season or the season after.
 
Hound Dog said:
Do you know how much it would cost to sack him?
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He signed a 3 year deal at Bayern, BM wanted to extend his contract before he decided to leave, they didn't want him to leave desipte his CL showing. He signed 3 years at City followed by another 2 years and now another 2 years this year after year failing in the CL. Ita clear these clubs still believed or believe in him despite his showing in the CL is what I feel Iker is saying. Bayern are as ruthless as they come sacked Carlo and Niko instantly, yet wanted to extend Pep contract doesn't seem to indicate he was failing them?
 
All the shit that Ole has been subjected to in regards to the player selection in the Europa Final, Guardiola bottled it twice as badly as Ole allegedly did.

Yet, he hasn't taken nearly the abuse or verball assault from the press even after spending 1.2 billion since his arrival at City.
 
Pep spent something like 800-900 million at City.

A hypothetical. If you gave Jose the squad that Pep inherited and 500 million I think he would have won the CL by now.
 
Berbaclass said:
Pep spent something like 800-900 million at City.

A hypothetical. If you gave Jose the squad that Pep inherited and 500 million I think he would have won the CL by now.
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Well Mourinho spent ~400M euros at UTD if I added up the figures well, and one can argue that he actually made you worse...hardly a ringing endorsement. David Silva and De Bruyne don't look like Jose prototypical players as well.
 
De Portago said:
Well Mourinho spent ~400M euros at UTD if I added up the figures well, and one can argue that he actually made you worse...hardly a ringing endorsement. David Silva and De Bruyne don't look like Jose prototypical players as well.
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Agreed....he absolutely made United worse with some shocking purchases and absolute shit style of football. Then again, so did Moyes and LVG.
 
De Portago said:
Well Mourinho spent ~400M euros at UTD if I added up the figures well, and one can argue that he actually made you worse...hardly a ringing endorsement. David Silva and De Bruyne don't look like Jose prototypical players as well.
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City had a better team than us.
 
Berbaclass said:
Pep spent something like 800-900 million at City.

A hypothetical. If you gave Jose the squad that Pep inherited and 500 million I think he would have won the CL by now.
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:lol:
Yeah right. Look at what Mourinho has achieved over the past decade compared to Guardiola. Specialist in failure and being sacked to go along with archaic tactics and inability to adapt.
 
Eternitiy said:
:lol:
Yeah right. Look at what Mourinho has achieved over the past decade compared to Guardiola. Specialist in failure and being sacked to go along with archaic tactics and inability to adapt.
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The point was that Guardiola is incapable of doing what Jose did with teams like Porto and Inter.
 
Berbaclass said:
The point was that Guardiola is incapable of doing what Jose did with teams like Porto and Inter.
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he's never had to prove himself like that as every team he's managed either was well established or they have owners with deep pockets to spend money to bring in a lot of talent. There's no denying his football and his ability to teach but he's also doing it with already incredible players. Put him in a situation at a smaller club with a small budget and i think he was have some difficulty playing the type of football he wants.
 
bosskeano said:
he's never had to prove himself like that as every team he's managed either was well established or they have owners with deep pockets to spend money to bring in a lot of talent. There's no denying his football and his ability to teach but he's also doing it with already incredible players. Put him in a situation at a smaller club with a small budget and i think he was have some difficulty playing the type of football he wants.
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A good manager is able to adapt and use what he has available to his advantage. Pep has yet to really show this in my opinion.

He's thrown money at the problem at Bayern and City and still comes up short in Europe.
 
sullydnl said:
I'm not sure there's any other manager in world football who could win three PL titles in four years (having already won three Bundesliga titles in three years)
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Any semi competent manager wins the league with Bayern. Even some incompetent ones. And winning titles with City is as easy as it gets in England. He’s obviously a great coach, but he’s had every advantage like no manager before him.
 
acnumber9 said:
Any semi competent manager wins the league with Bayern. Even some incompetent ones. And winning titles with City is as easy as it gets in England. He’s obviously a great coach, but he’s had every advantage like no manager before him.
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There must be some sort of valid reason he keeps finding himself in those favorable circumstances (which obviously exist to be fair) you mention while a multitude of other coaches compared to him or even considered better than him by a decent percentage of this board are toiling at clubs who are Everton/Roma level at best and dropping down the ladder most of the time.
 
acnumber9 said:
Any semi competent manager wins the league with Bayern. Even some incompetent ones. And winning titles with City is as easy as it gets in England. He’s obviously a great coach, but he’s had every advantage like no manager before him.
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Is the PL not supposed to be the most competitive league in the world?

As for Bayern, he was so bad that they wanted him to stay. I guess they know nothing about football over there right?
 
De Portago said:
There must be some sort of valid reason he keeps finding himself in those favorable circumstances (which obviously exist to be fair) you mention while a multitude of other coaches compared to him or even considered better than him by a decent percentage of this board are toiling at clubs who are Everton/Roma level at best and dropping down the ladder most of the time.
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I’ve said he’s a great coach. He’s winning the trophies any good coach should at the teams he’s managed. If he doesn’t win the Champions League at City he’ll have failed at what he was hired for though.
 
footballistic orgasm said:
Is the PL not supposed to be the most competitive league in the world?

As for Bayern, he was so bad that they wanted him to stay. I guess they know nothing about football over there right?
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It’s more competitive than the other top leagues, but he still has it easier at City than he would at any other club. That should be obvious to anyone who isn’t being obtuse about it.

Who said he was bad at Bayern? Why are you defensive about it? All I said was Bayern win the league regardless of who manages them. Bayern were also a better team the year before he took charge.
 
acnumber9 said:
I’ve said he’s a great coach. He’s winning the trophies any good coach should at the teams he’s managed. If he doesn’t win the Champions League at City he’ll have failed at what he was hired for though.
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If he isn't fired, then you must be wrong.
And have you seen his contract with the club before coming to your conclusion?
 
acnumber9 said:
I’ve said he’s a great coach. He’s winning the trophies any good coach should at the teams he’s managed. If he doesn’t win the Champions League at City he’ll have failed at what he was hired for though.
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Mancini and Pellegrini had clusterfecks of seasons at Man City that ended up in them getting the boot. At Bayern the same happened to both Ancelotti and Kovač. Is it really that simple?
 
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