'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

Marwood said:
Fergie was older than Pep is now before he even got a chance at competing in the Champs League.

Such comparisons are so badly flawed. Compleyely different eras, resources, even the competition formats and entey requirements have changed.

The Chelsea players had no more experience of winning the Champions League than City's. Their manager had much less than Pep.

Experience is no excuse. If anything City and their manager had the advantage in that regard.
Click to expand...


They’re not flawed. The point is that the most any manager has won it is 3 times. Because it is hard, especially if you are trying to do the league and CL double.

Fergie won it twice in 20 years. Sacchi won it twice in a 30 year managerial career. Yet we don’t say ‘but what did he do without Van Basten, Gullit and Berlusconi’s millions?’ Cos that would be ridiculous. I imagine that such questions won’t be asked about Pep either once his career is over, it’s just fashionable to do it now.

Also, I’m not saying that the Chelsea players had less experience, I’m talking about the psychological weight of trying to be the first team in the history of your club to win the trophy. As I said, the last 8 clubs to debut in the final have lost. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.
 
fergies coat said:
Repeat yourself again that will tell him. If you can't see the brought Pep in because they wanted to win the champions league then your clueless.
Click to expand...
Of course Pep was brought in to win the trophies especially the CL. I think even more importantly for Abu Dhabi it legitimised their project. They got the most successful manager in the world to commit to them. Abu Dhabi can't get a better manager for City than Pep anyway as the only one better retired in 2013.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
By that logic, Ferguson was a bottler at United for 25 years other than the 2 in which he won the CL.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. I won't pretend that I followed Ferguson a lot (simply because I am just not old enough, I only really know about his last years in charge), but my impression is that Ferguson's United lost when they met a stronger team. That can always happen and for me it's not a sign of a bottler.

Guardiola on the other hand is tinkering too much with his team selection and tactics, usually his teams lose exactly when he tries to be clever while more or less comfortably advancing through the rounds until that point. He mistrusts his own teams and instead of doing little changes and focus on details he throws everything away and creates something new, none of his players know how to deal with it and they lose.
 
Berbaclass said:
@el3mel

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...s-most-desired-the-champions-league-k5g8tmpjh
Click to expand...

Can't read the rest of the article because of the pay wall, but literally the first part says that the board are immensely proud with what trophies have been achieved so far :

The room in question is Sheikh Mansour’s office, and as those who have visited will tell you, the trophies in question are his pride and joy. He is immensely proud that during his ownership, City have won four league titles, two FA Cups and four League Cups. One big piece of silverware is missing from the collection though — the Champions League.
Click to expand...

Of course they would damn want to win CL. I didn't say they didn't care about it. It's also not the all or nothing target which is my point.

Anyway, didn't I tell you that you can believe he's underachieving with City if that makes you feel better about the whole thing ?
 
el3mel said:
Can't read the rest of the article because of the pay wall, but literally the first part says that the board are immensely proud with what trophies have been achieved so far :



Of course they would damn want to win CL. I didn't say they didn't care about it. It's also not the all or nothing target which is my point.

Anyway, didn't I tell you that you can believe he's underachieving with City if that makes you feel better about the whole thing ?
Click to expand...
:lol:

I'm not even going to bother responding to you if you're blatantly wumming like this!
 
Cascarino said:
Barcelona won the CL in 2005, but spent the next two seasons winning nothing, and finished third 18 points behind the winners. The squad was in desperate need of rejuvenating, and he made some big calls. Selling Ronaldinho and Deco, promoting Pedro and Busquets, bringing back Pique and most importantly employing a tactical style that got the best out of the likes of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. He was lucky to inherit some great players, but there's been a lot of revisionism about his role in the Barcelona success that followed his appointment. No one in 2008 was predicting the levels he'd take that team to, and he deserves a lot of credit for it.

Fair enough about Munich.

Manchester City won the league in the 2013/2014 season, but two seasons passed without them coming close to winning it again, in the season prior to Guardiola taking over Manchester City came 4th with 66 points (ahead of Manchester United on goal difference) , 15 points behind leaders Leicester. Part of this was because Pellegrini had completely lost the City players, but it was still a tough job to walk into. He's obviously spent a massive amount of money, but he's had a good return on it.
Click to expand...
Those calls were certainly made at the Board level probably with Consultation with Him but him certainly not being in charge .
Guardiola was a Rookie manager with no experience and hardly any credit built whatsoever at that point to have that kind of influence .
 
padr81 said:
Got it massively wrong tonight with the midfield. The ball for the winner went right through where a DM would be sitting. That said his attack being toothless isn't on him. Mahrez, KDB, Gundo and Stones who were great all season were piss poor tonight, harsh on Gundo because he was played outta position.

Think he got his subs wrong too, hooking Bernardo and not Sterling was a shocker.
Click to expand...

Can’t really disagree with any of this
 
People can't be serious if they think Mancini and Pellegrini could do what Pep if they had 'more backing' :lol:

Both of those 2 managers were backed initially too, but they had abject failures. Mancini failed to make it out of the group stages with City 2 straight seasons. Pellegrini won 1 league title and never came close again afterwards and amounted to nothing in Europe. Both of those managers are nowhere now.

People go to both extremes when it comes to Pep.
 
Berbaclass said:
I couldn’t care less dude. You just can't really have a serious discussion with somebody that clearly hasn't a fecking clue what they're talking about.
Click to expand...

Yep, I don't have a clue. Best to put me on the ignore list and go talk with your other friends who think Pep is underachieving and City could have kept Pellegrini because they don't give a shit about domestic competitions. This is indeed a sign of a poster who has a clue.
 
el3mel said:
Yep, I don't have a clue. Best to put me on the ignore list and go talk with your other friends who think Pep is underachieving and City could have kept Pellegrini because they don't give a shit about domestic competitions. This is indeed a sign of a poster who has a clue.
Click to expand...
I would put you on ignore but your posts are a source of comedy for me and I'd be afraid to miss one to be perfectly honest.

The times we live in you need a pick me up now and then.
 
SER19 said:
More caveats for Ferguson. Hampered by a foreigner rule initially, rebuilding a side multiple times while guardiola largely inherited the key players of his. Ferguson himself would be the first to admit we should have won more. To compare the 2 as who's the greatest is madness in my opinion
Click to expand...

At the time Ferguson was managing, many people said he didn’t do well enough in Europe, especially when contrasted with the domestic dominance. 2 CLs, 10 years apart, both won with a bit of luck in the finals. Now he’s retired, when you look back on the entirety of his European exploits and include the Cup Winners Cup titles for two teams etc., you can see that he’s one of the great managers in European competition. I think when it’s all said and done, Pep will be viewed similarly, despite all the ‘prisoner of the moment’ comments in this thread because he doesn’t win the CL every year.
 
el3mel said:
Yep, I don't have a clue. Best to put me on the ignore list and go talk with your other friends who think Pep is underachieving and City could have kept Pellegrini because they don't give a shit about domestic competitions. This is indeed a sign of a poster who has a clue.
Click to expand...
He hasn't won the one thing that he was brought in to win. Yes he's won trophies but they want the big one, and if you can't see this then you are deluded. Pep has done a good job at city, but he hasn't won the one trophy they really want, so in that regard he has under archived. It's not difficult to understand is it.
 
fergies coat said:
He hasn't won the one thing that he was brought in to win. Yes he's won trophies but they want the big one, and if you can't see this then you are deluded. Pep has done a good job at city, but he hasn't won the one trophy they really want, so in that regard he has under archived. It's not difficult to understand is it.
Click to expand...
You might just be underestimating that pal :lol:
 
So, err, did Pep let one of the African shamans pick the starting line up or what?
 
The nonsense in here, it's either feast or famine with this place. Top manager but not a God.
 
gajender said:
Those calls were certainly made at the Board level probably with Consultation with Him but him certainly not being in charge .
Guardiola was a Rookie manager with no experience and hardly any credit built whatsoever at that point to have that kind of influence .
Click to expand...

I don't think you're wrong, but that's always the case. It's very rare that a manager will get the final say on big calls like that without working in tandem with others within the club. It doesn't really change anything though, Guardiola came out on his first day and said that Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o weren't part of his plans. So it was obviously his decision, even if it was backed by others.
 
thepolice123 said:
He already lost to Chelsea twice this season with the usual setup. He tried something different and failed too. Not exactly over-thinking in this case.
Click to expand...

He lost previously because his 2nd choice keeper made blunder and Aguero screwed up the penalty. And once again for the third time, he chose to do the same not playing his best XI. Why? Over-thinking. Literally there is no reason not to play the same XI as the ones he played vs Dortmund and PSG.
 
NasirTimothy said:
At the time Ferguson was managing, many people said he didn’t do well enough in Europe, especially when contrasted with the domestic dominance. 2 CLs, 10 years apart, both won with a bit of luck in the finals. Now he’s retired, when you look back on the entirety of his European exploits and include the Cup Winners Cup titles for two teams etc., you can see that he’s one of the great managers in European competition. I think when it’s all said and done, Pep will be viewed similarly, despite all the ‘prisoner of the moment’ comments in this thread because he doesn’t win the CL every year.
Click to expand...

You make some very good points about Sir Alex's record in Europe despite his early struggles due to foreigners rules and some unexpected losses where we were favourites it still stacks up well against most managers when it's all said and done.

Similarly Guardiola's record is more than comparable to any past and present Greats and should be shown greater respect .

But today I tipped Chelsea for the win which they thankfully did because they matched up quite well against City under Tuchel who himself has proven to be quite a good manager.

Next season is going to be cracker and despite doom and gloom amongst United supporters currently I think United would pleasantly surprise lot of posters .
 
Cascarino said:
I don't think you're wrong, but that's always the case. It's very rare that a manager will get the final say on big calls like that without working in tandem with others within the club. It doesn't really change anything though, Guardiola came out on his first day and said that Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o weren't part of his plans. So it was obviously his decision, even if it was backed by others.
Click to expand...
I don't know but I remember one of the posters who follows Spanish league did say decision to dump these players was already made by the Board It had not much to do with Guardiola and European clubs already had the Coaches and sporting Director structure and given Guardiola was just a Rookie with no pedigree at top level at that time I don't think he had final say in any incoming or outgoing initially.
Just to add my points are not to take anything away from what Guardiola did at Barcelona.
 
gajender said:
I don't know but I remember one of the posters who follows Spanish league did say decision to dump these players was already made by the Board It had not much to do with Guardiola and European clubs already had the Coaches and sporting Director structure and given Guardiola was just a Rookie with no pedigree at top level at that time I don't think he had final say in any incoming or outgoing initially.
Just to add my points are not to take anything away from what Guardiola did at Barcelona.
Click to expand...

I think you're right, I know the board had become concerned with that trio (I remember one rumour was that they were concerned of them influencing Messi, but I know Messi and Ronaldinho have denied this), and I think Ronaldinho himself had told Pep he wanted out. And I also agree that he definitely wouldn't have the final say, but I think it was one of those occasions where everyone's desires matched up, with Guardiola, the board and the players in question wanting the same thing. I remember reading that he had a lot of authority with the makeup of the squad (mainly about which players to promote from Barcelona B due to his season there), but I do agree with you that had the board and the players not wanted the players to leave, they wouldn't have allowed Guardiola to shift them.
 
gajender said:
You make some very good points about Sir Alex's record in Europe despite his early struggles due to foreigners rules and some unexpected losses where we were favourites it still stacks up well against most managers when it's all said and done.

Similarly Guardiola's record is more than comparable to any past and present Greats and should be shown greater respect .

But today I tipped Chelsea for the win which they thankfully did because they matched up quite well against City under Tuchel who himself has proven to be quite a good manager.

Next season is going to be cracker and despite doom and gloom amongst United supporters currently I think United would pleasantly surprise lot of posters .
Click to expand...

Don’t disagree with anything you’ve said.
 
Berbaclass said:
No point trying to have a discussion with you if you're just going to be silly. You're incredibly naive if you think anything other than Guardiola was brought in solely to win the CL.

Do you think they give a feck about the league cup or the PL? They could hire a Pellegrini or Mancini every other year if they wanted that.
Click to expand...

Why hasn’t he been sacked then if the CL is all they care about? He wasn’t even remotely close to winning it in his first 4 seasons.
 
iKnowNothing said:
You will get slaughtered by the Ole fans here for even thinking about this.
Click to expand...

He was the choice of SAF and for sure he has won the league everywhere he has gone and just did the double this season. I do not care about what they think and I have been a supporter of United since 1967. I have seen managers and players come and go and I am not a fan of any particular manager that I support him over the success of the club.
 
Zlaatan said:
Why hasn’t he been sacked then if the CL is all they care about? He wasn’t even remotely close to winning it in his first 4 seasons.
Click to expand...

He was brought in to win the CL, but the guy is effectively the face of Manchester City. He’ll never be sacked, he’s bigger than the club.
 
I think not ever firing Pep doesn't have anything to do with the UCL.

Pep offers something more than trophies. He gives the club's football a unique identity. His playing style goes a long way in establishing how people look at and talk about City. Beautiful football has its own charm and unlike the Glazers, the Sheiks have always cared about optics. Say what you want, but in most circles, City team is considered the most beautiful football playing team of the PL era and that is against which all future teams with similar ideas will be measured against. That is a great legacy to have for any club.

I think they know he will eventually win the UCL while keeping on dominating the domestic circuit.

The City owners have in general not been as impatient even with past managers as say the Chelsea/Madrid/PSG owners. Might be cnuts of the highest order but they seem very sensible owners to me.

I don't know names to be precise, but even before Pep was roped in, a lot of personnel was brought into the administration of the club to establish the ideal setup of Pep. They won't tinker all that with a knee jerk reaction.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.