Pep Guardiola agrees contract with Bayern

Sarni said:
He should be able to do it. Squad wise they're second in Europe behind only Barcelona.
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When did that happen? Seriously, before Bayern signed Guardiola the majority of the RedCafe users would have laughed about the statement that Bayern have clearly the second best squad in Europe. You could read all the time that they massively overpaid for Martinez, Gomez is overrated, the defense is weak, Badstuber and Boateng aren't good enough to win the CL, they don't have enough squad depth, Neuer makes to many mistakes. After Bayern lost at Bate in the CL 3 month ago, people made fun of anyone who still believed that they are a great team and better than United. Second best squad, only behind Barca? Yeah right. Maybe they were called the second best team right now, because they are in form - you could read that a lot - not because they are better. "Don't compare form to actual quality" was said all the time.

I don't know if you've been one of those, Sarni, maybe you considered them the second best squad already at the beginning of the season. But most people would have called you an idiot if you said they have better players than Madrid, for example, and honestly, I really think they have a point. Have Chelsea, City, United, Real, maybe even Juve and PSG really clearly inferior players to Bayern? I don't think these clubs are better teams right now, but if you compare their squads, their players individually? How many Bayern players would have made the fifa world XI according to the caf, or even the second team?

Maybe Heynckes deserves some credit for making them a great team, better than the sum of its parts. Which is nice for Guardiola to take over, of course, but in no way a guaranteed success in europe because of the quality squad.

Are Ribery, Kroos, Müller, Gomez really considered better attacking players than what Real, Chelsea, City and United have? That's new to me. Please don't tell me that Bayern's defense is suddenly now considered worldclass. So what, Schweinsteiger + Gustavo/Martinez are now the reason the squad is overall the second best in the world? Compared to Alonso + Khedira/Modric for example? How many people on the Redcafe would have considered Martinez the better player than Modric and Schweinsteiger better than Alonso in the summer?

It's really confusing what changed since Guardiola signed for Bayern. Now the team is so overrated that Guardiola can't be successful anymore, best case he meets the expectations. I love Bayern this year, it's a well balanced team with a few very smart key signings that fit perfectly into the team. But second best squad overall? That's laugable, imo.
 
SirAF said:
Sir Alex is more formal then Pep ;)
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Pep hasn't been knighted either. Pep is a simple guy from Santpedor, there's no pretense - he commands as well as gives respect and still maintaining his humility. The royal atmosphere is more a reflection of the capital club rather than the more low key one that Guardiola has grown up in

I imagine Germans are a bit more formal, perhaps it'll be some version of Herr Guardiola
 
Balu said:
When did that happen? Seriously, before Bayern signed Guardiola the majority of the RedCafe users would have laughed about the statement that Bayern have clearly the second best squad in Europe.
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I don't think they would have. Bayern (and German football in general) have been going from strength to strength in recent years and show no signs of stopping, and I think that's been generally acknowledged around here.
 
Balu said:
When did that happen? Seriously, before Bayern signed Guardiola the majority of the RedCafe users would have laughed about the statement that Bayern have clearly the second best squad in Europe. .
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What are you talking about? Most people on here believed Bayern had the best squad in Europe outside of Spain even before Guardiola signed on. Check one of the CL threads from earlier on in the season and after the two Spanish clubs, most people had Bayern down as the biggest threat in the competition.
 
Both clubs (Bayern and Barcelona) announced today that they will play a test match against each other for charity on June 24th in Munich.

I guess the TV money they will get for that charity match will be very high... :cool:
 
His beloved ex-club are in need of a temporary manager. Why can't he pull out a Scholes and come out to manage the team till end of the season?
 
Kaush949 said:
His beloved ex-club are in need of a temporary manager. Why can't he pull out a Scholes and come out to manage the team till end of the season?
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Because this chapter is closed. I guess he had his reasons to stop with Barcelona. If you watch the 70s Bayern team - the only players that probably had a similar success nationally in the team and for the country that the Barcelona players had the recent years - you see that after awhile a team needs new goals etc. to still function. That Bayern team went into all directions after 1976 - to Real, the US...

If you do not want to change half of the players you probably have to change the manager - or something.
 
Kaush949 said:
His beloved ex-club are in need of a temporary manager. Why can't he pull out a Scholes and come out to manage the team till end of the season?
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he got out just in time, before the cycle inevitably turned and his legacy would have been tarnished.
 
Kaush949 said:
His beloved ex-club are in need of a temporary manager. Why can't he pull out a Scholes and come out to manage the team till end of the season?
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Pretty sure no one at Barca expected Tito to miss so many games. To bring in Pep for a few games might have worked, but they probably thought for a few games the assistant coach can handle it. To bring Pep in for the rest of the season was never an option. He earned his sabatical, he has to learn german and study his new club and the new league. That's impossible while coaching Barca.

Tito should have stated that he won't return for at least this season so that Barca could have found an interim coach. Now it looks like no one knows what to do, no one knows when Tito returns, the players look tired and clueless. I never understood why Tito wanted to rush back instead of getting healthy again and start over next season.
 
charleysurf said:
he got out just in time, before the cycle inevitably turned and his legacy would have been tarnished.
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Pep had some great ideas. His 343 formation looked quite good, got every player involved. He really tried to find a formation to get the best out of Fabregas as well and take at least some weight off Messi's shoulders. He had to change back to his old formation with all the injuries for the second part of last season. But he clearly had a different idea for the next step than Vilanova, who started this season with a fairly conventional formation and tried to play every attack through Messi.
 
Personally I think it's a cowardly move for him. If it works he'll get all the plaudits if it doesn't he won't be affected at all.
 
Balu said:
Pretty sure no one at Barca expected Tito to miss so many games. To bring in Pep for a few games might have worked, but they probably thought for a few games the assistant coach can handle it. To bring Pep in for the rest of the season was never an option. He earned his sabatical, he has to learn german and study his new club and the new league. That's impossible while coaching Barca.

Tito should have stated that he won't return for at least this season so that Barca could have found an interim coach. Now it looks like no one knows what to do, no one knows when Tito returns, the players look tired and clueless. I never understood why Tito wanted to rush back instead of getting healthy again and start over next season.
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Because everyone always hopes for the best?

I think he initially decided that the follow-up treatment would be in Spain and that like a lot of people undergoing such therapy he'd have good days and bad ones and he could go in when he felt strong enough.

It changed once he switched to a US doctor - good days isn't an option, except for a talk over a videoconference - which is apparently what he does.

Anyway Rosell's apparently flown out to see him again and seemingly may be asking if he can come back for the Milan match - personally I hope he isn't asking him that, because it's a cruel request.

Instead I hope they're asking him about appointing a more experienced stand-in, or making an approach to Guardiola.
 
Gambit said:
Personally I think it's a cowardly move for him. If it works he'll get all the plaudits if it doesn't he won't be affected at all.
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Wy should he have to prove to people that he is a great manager by taking over a shit team and taking them to the top? Bayern is the biggest team in Germany, one of the biggest in the world with a rich history, a great stadium and very healthy position financially. Why on earth would he not want to go there when the job became available.
 
bosnian_red said:
Wy should he have to prove to people that he is a great manager by taking over a shit team and taking them to the top? Bayern is the biggest team in Germany, one of the biggest in the world with a rich history, a great stadium and very healthy position financially. Why on earth would he not want to go there when the job became available.
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Yeah, I agree. It's a stupid comment. Keeping a club at the top is probably more difficult than taking a club to the top. That's why every big club in europe is a huge challenge. Just because a team plays a great season, it's not a given they will continue to do it. That's what makes Ferguson the greatest manager ever. Not because he brought United back to the top, because he kept United at the top for such a long time.

Bayern looks like a great place to work right now, but it's still one of the most difficult environments in football with crazy expectations.
 
Balu said:
Yeah, I agree. It's a stupid comment. Keeping a club at the top is probably more difficult than taking a club to the top. That's why every big club in europe is a huge challenge. Just because a team plays a great season, it's not a given they will continue to do it. That's what makes Ferguson the greatest manager ever. Not because he brought United back to the top, because he kept United at the top for such a long time.

Bayern looks like a great place to work right now, but it's still one of the most difficult environments in football with crazy expectations.
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SAF is the best because he did both to be fair. The consistency is unmatched but also the fact that he did it with a team that wasn't great when he took over.
 
fergieisold said:
1-0FT any idea why robbed was throwing a strop during the celebration? Can't stand even looking at him, makes me feel weird.
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He was going nuts because he usually was the one who always failed playing against Dortmund topped by him missing a penalty against them last year.

Even if he would never admit it I think it was very important for him to score the winning goal against them.
 
Bumping this thread, instead of creating a new one..

Am I the only one thinking that Guardiola could struggle at Bayern. I mean, Laudrup said that his biggest mistake was going to a place where he didn't understand the language or the culture. I think that could vert well be the same with Pep and Bayern.

I am not so sure he will be the raving success most expect him to be - what do you guys think?
 
thegreatdane said:
Bumping this thread, instead of creating a new one..

Am I the only one thinking that Guardiola could struggle at Bayern. I mean, Laudrup said that his biggest mistake was going to a place where he didn't understand the language or the culture. I think that could vert well be the same with Pep and Bayern.

I am not so sure he will be the raving success most expect him to be - what do you guys think?
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I don't think the culture will be a problem for Pep. Martinez fits in perfectly, for example. Raul had no problems in the league and speaks highly of the Bundesliga. Pep's already learning the language and will speak german when he arrives, which of course is very important. I think he fits great into the club as a person. The way he speaks, his respectful attitude towards the former great players at Bayern, will help him. Also he brought a lot of "german" attributes to Barca, workrate efficiency. His ideas aren't in contradiction with what Bayern are playing now. Rummenigge and Sammer rate him highly and have played in other european leagues themselves, so they know about the difficulties. Most professional football clubs are very international these days. Foreign managers are doing fine in England for years, for example. Bayern had foreign top managers in the past (Trapattoni, van Gaal). Of course there's a chance he won't be successful. I don't think it's very likely though.

People shouldn't forget that other teams have just as good a squad as Bayern (Real, United, Juve), if not better (Barca). PSG, Chelsea and City will continue to spend money, so you shouldn't expect him to repeat the success he had with Barca in the champions league. But overall I think he will be great for the club.
 
Balu said:
I don't think the culture will be a problem for Pep. Martinez fits in perfectly, for example. Raul had no problems in the league and speaks highly of the Bundesliga. Pep's already learning the language and will speak german when he arrives, which of course is very important. I think he fits great into the club as a person. The way he speaks, his respectful attitude towards the former great players at Bayern, will help him. Also he brought a lot of "german" attributes to Barca, workrate efficiency. His ideas aren't in contradiction with what Bayern are playing now. Rummenigge and Sammer rate him highly and have played in other european leagues themselves, so they know about the difficulties. Most professional football clubs are very international these days. Foreign managers are doing fine in England for years, for example. Bayern had foreign top managers in the past (Trapattoni, van Gaal). Of course there's a chance he won't be successful. I don't think it's very likely though.

People shouldn't forget that other teams have just as good a squad as Bayern (Real, United, Juve), if not better (Barca). PSG, Chelsea and City will continue to spend money, so you shouldn't expect him to repeat the success he had with Barca in the champions league. But overall I think he will be great for the club.
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Okay, just not sure yet - Bayern have a history of being a mad house.. a few bad results and pressure is on? Question is also, are Barca's group of players so good that they play them self and live of the magic of Messi or is Guardiola as good as everyone thinks? Looking forward to seing him without the best squad through history and see if he is a good manager or his time with Barca just was a fluke!

I still think he should have taken a job in EPL - a much tougher league - for Bayern the league title is almost mandatory every season (yes i know that Dortmund won it last season, but still..) Would be like winning the Scottish PL with Celtic... As ferguson once said about the Portugese league, it's as easy as going to the grocery store for a bottle of milk! :-)
 
I think he will be great for the club but there will be growing pains. When there were hiccups at Barcelona in his first year, he had some latitude as he was well insulated by the club due to his history with them. He won't have that same luxury at Bayern if there are hiccups early, questions will crop up about whether he fits and we know how much external pressures at a club like Bayern drive decisions. Pep will not have the same support system and no one knows how he'll handle that when/if times get tough.

Still, I think the players will fight for him as he has a great way of fostering belief & confidence via his philosophy...they will believe in him
 
thegreatdane said:
I still think he should have taken a job in EPL - a much tougher league - for Bayern the league title is almost mandatory every season (yes i know that Dortmund won it last season, but still..) Would be like winning the Scottish PL with Celtic... As ferguson once said about the Portugese league, it's as easy as going to the grocery store for a bottle of milk! :-)
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Bayern have won the league 10 times in the last 20 years while United won in 12 times. Why do people keep saying it's not a big deal to win the Bundesliga? That's just plain wrong. We're talking about a league with teams like Dortmund in it, who beat City and Real or a team like Schalke that made it to the CL semifinals two years ago.
 
Balu said:
Bayern have won the league 10 times in the last 20 years while United won in 12 times. Why do people keep saying it's not a big deal to win the Bundesliga? That's just plain wrong. We're talking about a league with teams like Dortmund in it, who beat City and Real or a team like Schalke that made it to the CL semifinals two years ago.
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That's because when Utd win it, it's always against all odds and there are never any easy games, it is the Premier League after all, etc. etc...

I mean, it's not like they have a significantly higher win % than most other big domestic leagues, now is it? ;)

Man Utd: 12/20
Bayern: 10/20
Barcelona: 9/20
Real Madrid: 7/20
Juventus: 6/20
AC Milan: 6/20
Internazionale: 5/20
 
Balu said:
Bayern have won the league 10 times in the last 20 years while United won in 12 times. Why do people keep saying it's not a big deal to win the Bundesliga? That's just plain wrong. We're talking about a league with teams like Dortmund in it, who beat City and Real or a team like Schalke that made it to the CL semifinals two years ago.
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Probably because Bayern have an income and wage bill that is double their nearest rivals? To put that into context financially it'd be like us in the Premier League if you got rid of Tottenham, Chelsea, City, Liverpool and Arsenal.

With a competent manager, Bayern should comfortably win the league every season.

/edit: So technically it isn't like Celtic as their wage bill is 3x their closest rivals... But it's closer to Scotland than the Premier League in terms of financial competitiveness.
 
finneh said:
Probably because Bayern have an income and wage bill that is double their nearest rivals? To put that into context financially it'd be like us in the Premier League if you got rid of Tottenham, Chelsea, City, Liverpool and Arsenal.

With a competent manager, Bayern should comfortably win the league every season.
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So you actually mean it's just like City or Chelsea having double the finances than their rivals to compete with United, Spurs, Arsenal etc.
 
Jonno said:
So you actually mean it's just like City or Chelsea having double the finances than their rivals to compete with United, Spurs, Arsenal etc.
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No, not at all... City, Chelsea and us are all within c. 10% (very close). Whilst Arsenal and Liverpool are c. 20% behind (pretty close).

To make a similar comparison you'd have to get rid of United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea. Having City compete against Tottenham and the rest of the league would be similar to Germany.
 
finneh said:
Probably because Bayern have an income and wage bill that is double their nearest rivals? To put that into context financially it'd be like us in the Premier League if you got rid of Tottenham, Chelsea, City, Liverpool and Arsenal.

With a competent manager, Bayern should comfortably win the league every season.
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That's bullshit for so many reasons but I explained it once before to you and you clearly chose to live within your bias. The former part about double the wage bill isn't true either, but don't let the truth get in the way on your path to belittle german football.
 
Skorenzy said:
That's because when Utd win it, it's always against all odds and there are never any easy games, it is the Premier League after all, etc. etc...

I mean, it's not like they have a significantly higher win % than most other big domestic leagues, now is it? ;)

Man Utd: 12/20
Bayern: 10/20
Barcelona: 9/20
Real Madrid: 7/20
Juventus: 6/20
AC Milan: 6/20
Internazionale: 5/20
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just putting it up there:

CL's:

Madrid: 3/20
Barca: 3/20
Milan: 3/20
United: 2/20
9 others have won it once each.
 
Balu said:
That's bullshit for so many reasons but I explained it once before to you and you clearly chose to live within your bias. The former part about double the wage bill isn't true either, but don't let the truth get in the way on your path to belittle german football.
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Bayern Munich turnover 2012: 321m Euros
Schalke turnover 2012: 202m Euros
Dortmund turnover 2012: 189m Euros

Bayern Munich wages 2012: 158m Euros
Dortmund wages 2012: 80m Euros

Almost exactly double the wages and almost double the turnover of Dortmund. I'm actually very happy that Bayern have under-performed to such a gross level the last decade or 2, otherwise I'm sure their TV deal would be far less attractive, as would their crowds and German Football in general, given it'd be a one horse race.

Bayern's poor record has been very good for German Football and has made it the spectacle it is today. Hopefully Guardiola won't be a great manager for them for years to come, given the negative impact this would have.
 
I agree, if Bayern wasn't such a madhouse they should win the bundesliga 9/10 seasons! Not that there is no quality in the bundesliga but the difference between Bayern and the rest are just much bigger than in EPL. It would be like Spain without Barca or Real... Should be a walkover for them every season.

Agreed Dortmund is a great team, so is Schalke but they are feeder clubs to Bayern and the rest of Europe. Bayern go out and pay 30£ mill for Martinez, Schalke sell Neuer to Bayern.. Dortmund will probably sell Lewandowsky to Bayern this summer for 15£ mill. That is the difference!
 
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