Paul Pogba

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First of all, he isn't at Juve fir 2 years, he has debuted for them around 15 months ago. Second while it's true that 2 years ago he wasn't as good as now, he clearly looked good at Juve as early as last September (only after a few months after his departure). So either he made some potent black magic in that summer, or he was good in his last season here. I don't think that in a few months of summer a midfielder can go from not being good enough to play in our midfield to be good enough to boss games alongside Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio.

Third, a month ago, our management agreed to demands of an another manager. Maybe would have been better to continue playing Young, lose Januzaj in process but be proud for not leaving teenagers make demands. Helk, there were a lot of posters in that thread who preferred him leaving rather giving to his demands.

Fourth, people have retroactively changed the history of Pogba's performances in reserves after he left United. While everybody who watches reserves will agree that he didn't look as good as the season before (in U18 or whatever it was called) and looked like he didn't bother at times, he still was good in that season and was far from being average or poor. Anyway I don't think that this matters that much, Petrucci who arguably was as good/better than him struggles to get games in championship while he plays regularly for Juve and France. Macheda looked great everytime on reserves but won't make here. Moral of the story, judging by reserves form only isn't a good indication of how good a player is.

I'll say now what I said when he left. Sir Alex fecked up big time then and nithing has happened to change my opinion. Pogba was ready, SAF either thought that he wasn't ready or nevee rated him that much (I am sure that he rated Pogba, but did he rated him in the level of Thiago/Ilkay, those are only 2 better midfielders than him in U23 range age and both are a couple of years older). Pogba believed rightly that he was better than waiting forever and arguably go to loan before he gets his chance here. He had a good offer from a great club, he took it and he won. Looking to Powell's number of appearances last season, I don't think that the story would have been much better for Pogba if he had stayed here.

The bad part is that a year and half after he left, our midfield is still as baf as in that time. He could have solved a lot of our midfield problems and in this summer we spent 27.5m pounds in a midfielder who isn't half the player Pogba is, which makes the entire story a bit sad.

Also, I might be wrong but he wasnt playing regularly for the reserves during that time period. Remember him not getting regular reserve team action. He was stuck in between reserves and first team and its hard to impress without playing on a consistent basis.

Agree with everything else you wrote though.
 
Also, I might be wrong but he wasnt playing regularly for the reserves during that time period. Remember him not getting regular reserve team action. He was stuck in between reserves and first team and its hard to impress without playing on a consistent basis.

Agree with everything else you wrote though.
That's correct. He was in many games in bench for the first team which mean that he lost a few games for reserves. And yeah, that could have been a factor for not shining in reserves.
 
The Janujaz comparison is a strange one too. Given that he has never whined about anything since being here and actually seems to really enjoy being at this club rather than simply being at any old top club. Plus when he did get a chance looked on a completely different level to pogba compared to his few showings here.
 
Flexible between world class striker and talented youngster? Yeah.

Okay, fair enough. For what it's worth, I don't think Pogba did anything wrong at all. His attitude while he was at the club was never in question. SAF said that as well around February-March of the year he left, something along the lines of us letting Morrison go because of his attitude but wanting to keep hold of Pogba and praised his attitude. Pogba was visibly delighted when we beat City reserves in some game towards the end of the season as well. His attitude at Juve has been spot on as well. I think there is more than a hint of revisionism when it comes to Pogba and his attitude just because he left.
 
Flexible between world class striker and talented youngster? Yeah.


He was more than just a talented youngster. Anyone that watched regular reserve football knew he was special. He was light years ahead of his peers and looked ready for first team football which was amazing given his age. I generally have no complaints that he left for first team football, fair play to the lad, he had the stones to know he was good enough to break through into the Juventus first team and he was proved right.

There was a reason why so many of us were giddy as feck when he was breaking through. He was a special youngster. At least the club have learnt from their past mistakes and got Janujaz signed up and playing first team football.
 
He was more than just a talented youngster. Anyone that watched regular reserve football knew he was special. He was light years ahead of his peers and looked ready for first team football which was amazing given his age. I generally have no complaints that he left for first team football, fair play to the lad, he had the stones to know he was good enough to break through into the Juventus first team and he was proved right.

There was a reason why so many of us were giddy as feck when he was breaking through. He was a special youngster. At least the club have learnt from their past mistakes and got Janujaz signed up and playing first team football.

You clearly haven't watched him at reserve level and just repeat other's words
 
You clearly haven't watched him at reserve level and just repeat other's words


Wrong, I watched him for two years mate. Granted his last year in reserve football wasn't his best. But his first touch, passing, movement, strength and shooting was far better than his peers at that level. He oozed quality, feel free to look back through my post history and you'll see me raving about the lad. I was utterly convinced he'd make it at United and was more importantly the answer to our midfield problems. I was also convinced about Ravel as well, that summer crushed me. :lol:
 
Flexible between world class striker and talented youngster? Yeah.

That's a way of saying that. The other is one of the most talented players of his group age in his position. Seriously, I will be surprised if he doesn't become one of top 3 - top 5 midfielders in the world. Welbeck was a talented youngster, Lingaard and Cole are talented youngsters. Pogba and Januzaj were/are much more than that.
 
You clearly haven't watched him at reserve level and just repeat other's words

I love this constant reference to Pogba in the reserves, as if that was some indicator as to how ready he was to play first-team football. Reserve football in England is a pile of shit and has been for many years. It isn't competitive enough and doesn't offer any indication as to how well a player will shape up to the demands of the Premier League. You only get that from playing competitve football at a high level. Pogba wasn't afforded that chance so he left to find it elsewhere....and proved straight away he could become a key player for an elite European side.
 
I love this constant reference to Pogba in the reserves, as if that was some indicator as to how ready he was to play first-team football. Reserve football in England is a pile of shit and has been for many years. It isn't competitive enough and doesn't offer any indication as to how well a player will shape up to the demands of the Premier League. You only get that from playing competitve football at a high level. Pogba wasn't afforded that chance so he left to find it elsewhere....and proved straight away he could become a key player for an elite European side.


I insist, that after all the club went through to getting him in the first place, I think Sir Alex was really keen on him to play for us and obviously be around for a relatively long time. As far as I'm concerned, I am going to trust Sir Alex's judgement on this one. He has seen so many who thought they were bigger than the club and he fecked them right off. Pogba came from Le Havre HAC and yes, he was ok, but if his performances in some league cup games were deemed "average", then I am going to take the word of someone who was around that time. If Pogba thought that average performances would have got him into the first team, then he had another think coming. Only exceptionally talented players get to play in the first team and also to get a payrise. Take the case of Januzaj. Sir Alex could have shipped him on loan last season or Moyes this season, but no. They wanted to see how he is evolving in the reserves and to give him games. You see, that is the difference between Januzaj and Pogba; one shows a great deal of humility whilst the other was arrogant who thought he was the best and wanted to play in the first team and get a payrise. Another difference is that the skill level between the two is like night and day; Januzaj absolutely destroys him in anything he does whilst at the same time, doing a very good impression of Paul Scholes i.e. keeping his mouth closed and getting on with the job in hand with the minimum of fuss. Should a chance arise, then take it, if it doesn't then there is always next year and you have that time to improve and to also prove to the manager that you are capable of doing the job.
 
I love this constant reference to Pogba in the reserves, as if that was some indicator as to how ready he was to play first-team football. Reserve football in England is a pile of shit and has been for many years. It isn't competitive enough and doesn't offer any indication as to how well a player will shape up to the demands of the Premier League. You only get that from playing competitve football at a high level. Pogba wasn't afforded that chance so he left to find it elsewhere....and proved straight away he could become a key player for an elite European side.


It was more about attitude then ability re his reserve performances. He didn't seem bothered most of the time and thought he was above it (which he probably was), which obviously didn't impress the coaching staff and may well have been a factor in him not getting the first team game time he seemed to expect.
 
It was more about attitude then ability re his reserve performances. He didn't seem bothered most of the time and thought he was above it (which he probably was), which obviously didn't impress the coaching staff and may well have been a factor in him not getting the first team game time he seemed to expect.


In a nutshell. Sir Alex was too long in the tooth to take a snotty youth and put him into the first team unless he absolutely feels 100% confident. The confidence in his own ability and the actual fact let him down, again, he believed too much in his own hype. Sir Alex saw right through the guy and decided that he wasn't going to be dictated to by a youth. At the end of the day, he made his bed and he can lie in it, and I am not one for following our old players (not that he was our "old player anyway.) I hope Tevez and Pogba get married soon because they make a perfect couple.
 
I insist, that after all the club went through to getting him in the first place, I think Sir Alex was really keen on him to play for us and obviously be around for a relatively long time. As far as I'm concerned, I am going to trust Sir Alex's judgement on this one. He has seen so many who thought they were bigger than the club and he fecked them right off. Pogba came from Le Havre HAC and yes, he was ok, but if his performances in some league cup games were deemed "average", then I am going to take the word of someone who was around that time. If Pogba thought that average performances would have got him into the first team, then he had another think coming. Only exceptionally talented players get to play in the first team and also to get a payrise. Take the case of Januzaj. Sir Alex could have shipped him on loan last season or Moyes this season, but no. They wanted to see how he is evolving in the reserves and to give him games. You see, that is the difference between Januzaj and Pogba; one shows a great deal of humility whilst the other was arrogant who thought he was the best and wanted to play in the first team and get a payrise. Another difference is that the skill level between the two is like night and day; Januzaj absolutely destroys him in anything he does whilst at the same time, doing a very good impression of Paul Scholes i.e. keeping his mouth closed and getting on with the job in hand with the minimum of fuss. Should a chance arise, then take it, if it doesn't then there is always next year and you have that time to improve and to also prove to the manager that you are capable of doing the job.

How did you come up with that conclusion ? They're so different after all, play different roles and position. Pobga is stronger, has a better shot, better tackler etc etc .. Januzay is better than him at some things like close control, running at defenders. Overall though, two special talents, Pogba is at a more advanced stage of his development.
 
How did you come up with that conclusion ? They're so different after all, play different roles and position. Pobga is stronger, has a better shot, better tackler etc etc .. Januzay is better than him at some things like close control, running at defenders. Overall though, two special talents, Pogba is at a more advanced stage of his development.



That is true, but you could say that Januzaj has taken very little time to get into the first time than Pogba, which tells you something about the quality of the player. As for better shot, yep, saw that last night and his heading is atrocious. Glad he left to be honest, we cannot be doing with players like that. Period.
 
I insist, that after all the club went through to getting him in the first place, I think Sir Alex was really keen on him to play for us and obviously be around for a relatively long time. As far as I'm concerned, I am going to trust Sir Alex's judgement on this one. He has seen so many who thought they were bigger than the club and he fecked them right off. Pogba came from Le Havre HAC and yes, he was ok, but if his performances in some league cup games were deemed "average", then I am going to take the word of someone who was around that time. If Pogba thought that average performances would have got him into the first team, then he had another think coming. Only exceptionally talented players get to play in the first team and also to get a payrise. Take the case of Januzaj. Sir Alex could have shipped him on loan last season or Moyes this season, but no. They wanted to see how he is evolving in the reserves and to give him games. You see, that is the difference between Januzaj and Pogba; one shows a great deal of humility whilst the other was arrogant who thought he was the best and wanted to play in the first team and get a payrise. Another difference is that the skill level between the two is like night and day; Januzaj absolutely destroys him in anything he does whilst at the same time, doing a very good impression of Paul Scholes i.e. keeping his mouth closed and getting on with the job in hand with the minimum of fuss. Should a chance arise, then take it, if it doesn't then there is always next year and you have that time to improve and to also prove to the manager that you are capable of doing the job.

1. What was Ferguson's judgement? He said he couldn't hold Pogba back or he would lose him.....he held him back and lost him. Was that his judgement?
2. How many has he seen off that thought they were "bigger than the club?" Did any of the players he realeased actually think this was the case? You think Pogba thought he was bigger than Manchester United? No...no of course he didn't.
3. A lot of our teams performances in the League Cup were average that season. Pogba never started a game and it's pretty hard to make a real impression with just 20 minutes at the end of a dead rubber tie.
4. The bolded section is clearly not true. Clearly.
5. A bit early to start claiming Januzaj "destroys" Pogba, whatever that means, peculiar statement. Pogba is a bit further on in his career and he is proving to be a big player for Juventus and France. The skill level between them both is not as gaping as you make out, if at all.
6. Pogba's perceived arrogance and gobbiness is totally overstated. The guy is outwardly confident, and he asked Ferguson to play him (against Blackburn.) He didn't demand anything, nor did he think he was "ze best." He just wanted to play and believed he could do a job. That personality trait was always going to rub Ferguson up the wrong way, maybe someone like Conte likes that in a person. Patrice Evra certainly appreciated it, and suggested that he earned the respect of Giggs and (ironically since you mention him) Scholes also.

Sorry I had to reply in this way as there was no real flow in your post PL.
 
Call it masochistic or bitterness. The more I see him play (as a starter in actual football games where he is not getting a little run out in a mediocre game in a team fielding an unbalanced side to give people games and get some players match fit) the more amazed I am that we let him go. To back Fergie on letting him go (or not yielding to the extravagant demands by a top prospect midfielder to get some game time, the spoiled brat eh?) because everything he does was magic is the same as when you are a child and you think your parent is omnipotent...in other words: clueless

I'll say it again - for all we know, Adnan may have been ready last season. SAF had a great record with bringing through young players but that hardly applies to his last 5 or 10 years in charge.

To say Pogba believed too much in his own ability is absurd. He's tearing it up. And how is there any similarity with Tevez?
 
It means that demands by teenagers to play shouldn't be met unless the management agrees with them. At the time he wasn't working hard and wasn't good enough. Why do people think that he was as good as he is now two years ago? He wasn't anywhere near this level? If he had stayed here and had got games would he have got to this level? Nobody knows, maybe the change of environment helped him flourish. Either way, criticising a manager who has an enormous history of getting the best out of gifted youngsters with careful handling seems ridiculous, and Pogbas daft idea that he was never going to get his chance was always silly.

He may not have have been good enough to be starting week in week out for United, but he wasn't asking for that was he? All he wanted was to have some chances in the first team to show what he can do. Like what Moyes gave Januzaj this season. Instead, Sir Alex chose the likes of Rafael and Park in center midfield for a premier league game. A u18 player who never even played a reserve team game would have been a better choice than that disaster of a team selection. Sir Alex was arguably the best manager of all time but he, like everyone, made some mistakes. He even said if we don't give Pogba chances, we'll lose him. That same year, he gave Pogba basically no chances and because of that, we lost him. Pogba wasn't being a cnut at all. He wanted to have some chances to impress at a time where literally all of our 3 competent midfielders were out injured, and still Sir Alex chose to put defenders or shite wingers in there for some strange reason. Then in January, he brings a 37 year old out of retirement. I'm sorry, but 99% of players, who think about their future, would have left the club in that scenario. It hardly matters even if you're a boyhood supporter of the club, because if you have it in you to become a world class player, and a key player at a big club, why wait 3 years at United to start getting a few games here and there when he can do what he did, go to another top club, and within a season displace somebody like Marchisio?
 
He is a very good footballer.He was ready and he knew it.The supporters suspected it and the club knew he was on the verge of it, but somehow the timing was all wrong.I wish we'd said 'go on then, show us what ya got' but it's too late and he's moved on.It's unlike us to have not to have let a young player loose to express himself, but he wanted to do everything on his terms.When a young player demands a chance you can either hold clip his wings and explain that an opportunity will arrive and soon, or you can embrace his desire and confidence and let him sink or swim.Good luck to him I say and bad luck for us but such is life.You live and learn!
 
He is a very good footballer.He was ready and he knew it.The supporters suspected it and the club knew he was on the verge of it, but somehow the timing was all wrong.I wish we'd said 'go on then, show us what ya got' but it's too late and he's moved on.It's unlike us to have not to have let a young player loose to express himself, but he wanted to do everything on his terms.When a young player demands a chance you can either hold clip his wings and explain that an opportunity will arrive and soon, or you can embrace his desire and confidence and let him sink or swim.Good luck to him I say and bad luck for us but such is life.You live and learn!

Like Inter with Pirlo and AC Milan with Vieira.. It happens. We could spunk £30m and try get him back but thats not going to happen.
 
Call it masochistic or bitterness. The more I see him play (as a starter in actual football games where he is not getting a little run out in a mediocre game in a team fielding an unbalanced side to give people games and get some players match fit) the more amazed I am that we let him go. To back Fergie on letting him go (or not yielding to the extravagant demands by a top prospect midfielder to get some game time, the spoiled brat eh?) because everything he does was magic is the same as when you are a child and you think your parent is omnipotent...in other words: clueless

I'll say it again - for all we know, Adnan may have been ready last season. SAF had a great record with bringing through young players but that hardly applies to his last 5 or 10 years in charge.

To say Pogba believed too much in his own ability is absurd. He's tearing it up. And how is there any similarity with Tevez?

We never 'let him go'!! He chose to not sign the new contract we offered him and move for more money elsewhere.

This was about money primarily, he was never guaranteed game time at Juve, just a bigger pay cheque (and presumably signing on fee).
 
We never 'let him go'!! He chose to not sign the new contract we offered him and move for more money elsewhere.

This was about money primarily, he was never guaranteed game time at Juve, just a bigger pay cheque (and presumably signing on fee).


We offered more money, IT WAS about playing. He went to Juve and started right away.crazy that an 19 year old was fed up waiting but he has justified himself fully.
 
We offered more money, IT WAS about playing. He went to Juve and started right away.crazy that an 19 year old was fed up waiting but he has justified himself fully.

I'm pretty sure all of the reports at the time were that we refused to meet his pay demands, but Juve (and others) did.

Also, if he's stayed no doubt he would have gone on the preseason tour and had a chance to prove himself, as Januzaj had done, and challenge for a first team place if he'd impressed. SAF was gradually integrating him like he did with Januzaj at the end of last season.
 
I'm pretty sure all of the reports at the time were that we refused to meet his pay demands, but Juve (and others) did.

Also, if he's stayed no doubt he would have gone on the preseason tour and had a chance to prove himself, as Januzaj had done, and challenge for a first team place if he'd impressed. SAF was gradually integrating him like he did with Januzaj at the end of last season.

The same januzaj who played zero games and was only on the sub bench once last year?
 
I'm pretty sure all of the reports at the time were that we refused to meet his pay demands, but Juve (and others) did.

Also, if he's stayed no doubt he would have gone on the preseason tour and had a chance to prove himself, as Januzaj had done, and challenge for a first team place if he'd impressed. SAF was gradually integrating him like he did with Januzaj at the end of last season.

Nope. All the reports were that we either matched or offered more money than Juve to him. It is likely than Juve offered more money to his agent though, considering that Raiola is to them what Mendez is to us.

SAF didn't integrate Januzaj that much into the first team. Until Moyes became our manager, Januzaj had a grand total of zero appearances for United.
 
So many comments based on so little evidence.

He left for a range of reasons.

I totally understand why the club and Fergie managed the situation how they did and have no problems with that.

I wish Pogba all the best but he doesn't play for us any more.
 
SAF didn't integrate Januzaj that much into the first team. Until Moyes became our manager, Januzaj had a grand total of zero appearances for United.

I wasn't referring to appearances. He was training with the first team and travelling to the games as part of the squad to integrate him into it and get used to being with the senior players and match preparation.
 
We offered more money, IT WAS about playing. He went to Juve and started right away.crazy that an 19 year old was fed up waiting but he has justified himself fully.


actually, he didn't start right away. He was dropped from the playing squad within the first month due to his shoddy attitude and had to work his way into the team from the bench after he was disciplined.

If his attitude was so poor starting at a new club, you can only imagine what a half arsed showing he gave for us in training that final year- and it was showing in his performances for the reserves, nice touches notwithstanding
 
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