Paul Pogba has played most minutes this season among outfield Juventus players.
Paul Pogba
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I know he's been a revelation at Juve but he wasn't impressive for France against the Ukraine
No one was, he was the least terrible of the night. Props to Ukraine for showing France how football is played with cojones.
Perhaps you should watch the video of Pascal Praud. If there is one thing I dislike about paundits in international matches, and that is the idea of sucking up to the players and how the players are immune to criticism. The way he says it is how most French people see it too, well, people who I work with. He told it like it is and fair-play to him, he was right.
Totally disagree. He was the best of the french players. He won the ball back numerous times, kept it well, and diistributed the ball really well.
[QUOTE]"Je pense que ça va au-delà du résultat. Il y a des gens qui sont très contents de ce qui se passe ce soir. Ils n'en peuvent plus de cette équipe de France. Ils ne peuvent plus voir Patrice Evra sur un terrain ! Ils ne veulent plus voir les anciens de Knysna ! Ca catalyse tout ça. Il y a plein de gens qui n'aiment plus l'équipe de France et non seulement ils ne l'aiment plus mais ils la détestent !", a-t-il lâché. Pour le journaliste, une éventuelle élimination des Bleus mardi réjouit ceux qui ne veulent plus voir cette génération de joueurs sur le terrain.[/QUOTE]
I hope Evra retires from their NT, so they all can enjoy watching Clichy being their first choice.
Evra is pure poison. Fair play to Ferguson for keeping him in check because the guy is one of the biggest pricks in football.
Moyes trying so desperately to replace him last summer is obviously linked with his age, but he was probably worried about him being the first to jump ship, as it were.
Moyes trying so desperately to replace him last summer is obviously linked with his age, but he was probably worried about him being the first to jump ship, as it were.
Hahaha you're so shit at trolling http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/evra-earns-plaudits-french-team-talk
You are just bitter that he goes out of his way to troll Arsenal and speaks his mind. It's ok Al - Arsenal haven't had a good leader since Vieira and Henry left. I don't expect you to recognize one.
He's a much better troll than me.
Actually, I don't particularly care what he's got to say about Arsenal. His actions for the French team say everything about his character. He's tried to atone for things recently, but I still wouldn't let him near the team.
I disagree with the whole "walk-out" fiasco as well. But there isn't anything wrong he's done recently. I reckon there's a lot more to that than we know. His teammates don't seem to have a problem with it. I do agree that he is a much better troll than you though.
Praud is the biggest hypocrite you're gonna find among the pundits. When Evra made the comments a few weeks ago, he was willing to let them slide because there was a much important event in the playoff vs Ukraine. Now the first match was played and there is still a chance to qualify but he has to have his moment where it's all about him, his feeling, how he speaks for the people, how they hate the french national team bla bla bla .... fecking hypocrite, incompetent idiot. Nantes remembers you well.
He is right though, whether he is a hypocrite or not. I still remember that strike they had which was led by the captain Patrice Evra, and the others followed. I remember the time when Evra actually said there was a telltale in the group who leaked a great deal of stuff out of their camp. Then Ribery comes out nearly close to tears and speaking absolute guff and bullshit about there is nothing wrong between him and Gourcuff when there clearly was. When Praud was stating that the people were fed up, he must have done some research to back this up. In any case, they don't need much to be pissed off anyway. Imagine, Evra and Ribery cost the French supporters a great deal of hard-earned up just because they didn't want to play. Imagine that you had worked for 4 years, saving money so you have a nice room in a nice hotel, airplane tickets and of course the match tickets only to find out your team has not only gone on strike, but actually played a very weak second XI against (I forgot now) in their last match. You know what, if I was an ardent supporter of the French team, I'd be pretty pissed off, and I wouldn't support them ever again.
Seriously though, it's time to get over the 2010 WC. We as people are so bitter it's crazy. You would think the players committed crimes of national treason.
They annoyed me big time in 2010 but I've moved on and a lot of people should to, holding on grudge like that is not healthy. I'm hoping for a better performance at least in the return leg and even if there is no WC in the end, then feck it. I've seen a lot of people happy because they see the possible imminent WC dream crush as a way to get rid of many players. To actually be happy to see the team lose is crazy.
I understand the criticism and all I'm saying is that there is a time for it, destroy, use your biggest quantities of vitriol after Ukraine wins over both legs. Praud is a joke, I can't take a single word he says seriously, the guy who acts like he speak for the people...
They annoyed me big time in 2010 but I've moved on and a lot of people should to, holding on grudge like that is not healthy. I'm hoping for a better performance at least in the return leg and even if there is no WC in the end, then feck it. I've seen a lot of people happy because they see the possible imminent WC dream crush as a way to get rid of many players. To actually be happy to see the team lose is crazy.
I understand the criticism and all I'm saying is that there is a time for it, destroy, use your biggest quantities of vitriol after Ukraine wins over both legs. Praud is a joke, I can't take a single word he says seriously, the guy who acts like he speak for the people...
Read and digested and it suggests to me that Pogba and his agent acted like cnuts, plain and simple.
Well, I'd dispute #4
To say there was no logical reason for Fergie to go with Pogba in that game is an attempt to preempt any reasonable debate. Just because he wasn't destroying it in the reserves doesn't mean he wasn't a worthy risk and quite possibly an improvement on what we had to choose from at the time. When is a player ready? When he's scored a couple of wonder goals in the reserves? Sometimes a young player needs faith and to be thrown in. Pogba certainly doesn't strike me as a kid lacking in confidence, nor did he back then.
For all we know, maybe Adnan would have been ready last season...
To compare his attitude with Cleverley is a bit ignoring the local-lad angle that applies to Clev. And if we're really comparing, Pogba is a miles better player. In every single aspect.
His agent is a cnut, fair enough, but maybe he wasn't badly advised. He's playing for a top team in Italy and tearing it up there showing everyone at United how huge a plonk move we made in asking him to keep waiting...and he's bossing it in the France midfield just booking his ticket to Brazil.
I'd take him back in a heartbeat, but I'd also apologize for the mess up...
i get that its such a pain that it turned out as it did but the rate that history is getting rewritten with his every goal or man of the match award is getting out of control. The club did nothing wrong imo. Adnan' s rise has since addressed some of the other nonsense Ive read here.
Apologize for a mess up when a player left the club because he wasn't ready? Why don't we let players just run the club! Ridiculous
Attitude is big part of playing for this club. Pogba acted the cnut, as did his agent and he followed his advice.
Quite right, you don't offer young players who have made average appearances, it is not club policy. Now, if Pogba had played like Adnan, then perhaps he could have got his wish, but he didn't and now I don't have any sympathy. He is clearly a younger version of Tevez. Both cnuts and how apt they play for the same team. On this note, have a good evening Decotron.
You aswell PL, enjoy a bottle of something native to celebrate!!!
okay okay, maybe a little overboard, apologies would be perverse, but he's not just a very good player we let go, he's a monster
maybe revisit this thread in a couple of years when he's taken over
that's not going overboard is it
maybe revisit this thread in a couple of years when he's taken over
that's not going overboard is it
Nobody is bigger than the club. Being a good player doesn't change that. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Some of the posts in here are daft. Ferguson himself in plain English....the following,
"I mean if we hold Pogba back, what's going to happen? He's going to leave. You know, in a couple of years’ time when his contract is going to finish. So we have to give him the opportunity to see how he can do in the first-team and he's got great ability".
He also added at the same time.......
"He is a possibility so, when you take that roll call of players you know, I’m certainly not looking to add anybody. I’ve been saying that for weeks, but you’ve all been writing differently, you’ve all been writing about how I’m going to buy this one, I’m going to buy that one but we’ve said nothing, I’m carrying on with business."
So basically he said this ahead of the 2011-2012 season. I would say that seven substitute appearances in dead rubber games does not really constitute giving him an opportunity. Even Bebe and Obertan made more appearances for United in an equivalent amount of time. People can continually harp on about Pogba being a cnut, good riddance and the best one "he clearly wasn't ready." If it was City who lost him to Juventus this forum would be in hysterics, but as it's United the club was clearly correct in the line they took with Pogba.
"I mean if we hold Pogba back, what's going to happen? He's going to leave. You know, in a couple of years’ time when his contract is going to finish. So we have to give him the opportunity to see how he can do in the first-team and he's got great ability".
He also added at the same time.......
"He is a possibility so, when you take that roll call of players you know, I’m certainly not looking to add anybody. I’ve been saying that for weeks, but you’ve all been writing differently, you’ve all been writing about how I’m going to buy this one, I’m going to buy that one but we’ve said nothing, I’m carrying on with business."
So basically he said this ahead of the 2011-2012 season. I would say that seven substitute appearances in dead rubber games does not really constitute giving him an opportunity. Even Bebe and Obertan made more appearances for United in an equivalent amount of time. People can continually harp on about Pogba being a cnut, good riddance and the best one "he clearly wasn't ready." If it was City who lost him to Juventus this forum would be in hysterics, but as it's United the club was clearly correct in the line they took with Pogba.
We fecked up with Pogba, anyone who doesn't admit that is doing so through red tinted glasses. He was clearly ready as witnessed by his immense form in the reserves. His quality was undeniable. We played hardball and lost out big time. But no matter, we've survived without much bigger players, just a shame we were never able to see Pogba play for the first team.
I am one of those critics and I am far from someone who wears "red-tinted specs", but for me, an 18 year old, relatively inexperienced footballer and his agent wanted first team football. Since when do you demand that at that age? Show us what you have got and we may consider you, that is the way it is.
Even an ageing Scholes was better than Pogba and Sir Alex's decision was vindicated. At the end of the day, he believed too much of his own hype and he left, and after all that trouble we went through trying to get him from Le Havre too. As I mentioned earlier, Tevez and Pogba are like birds of a feather. They are both arrogant, believe too much in their own hype, and as it has been said before, no-one is bigger than the club.
We live by our principle, he was big success and having last laugh after leaving us for free. He could have save us 30m if we handle this differently. Anyway we have got Fellaini, so lets move on.
I don't think he was demanding first team football. All he wanted was a chance. I know it gets brought up a lot, but the blackburn game was a perfect example of Sir Alex not having faith in him for whatever reason. He didn't trust him to be ready for the first team and put in a right back and an old winger who was past it in a two man midfield. Sir Alex seemed less inclined to give as many chances to youngsters in his later years, compared to the beginning of his career (who knows how much Januzaj would have featured for example). Him calling back Scholes was great for half a season, but it was obvious that it was a short term plan, and Sir Alex wasn't really thinking long term or else he would've given Pogba chances. Also, it wasn't really vindicated considering we ended up finishing in second place anyways.
The worst thing about this all, is in the summer of that season, Sir Alex said they would lose him if they didn't give him chances and he deserved the chances. That's why he didn't send him out on loan. He ended up not giving him chances anyways, even though we didn't really have anybody good to play there anyways and so he leaves. I said it at the time, but if I were him, I would be leaving too. He wasn't a boyhood United fan. Comparing United to Juve, similar title prospects, similar wages probably, but Juve over there was promising him plenty of first team football while who knows what United was offering. We certainly showed no signs that he'd be getting first team football the next season at United, so it was probably a pretty easy decision for him. It's not really fair to call him a cnut, or greedy, because he left for another big team who gave him chances. (even though he does seem like a bit of a dickhead, for other reasons
) Looking back it's obvious Pogba was right as well. Now we just have to keep looking on to sign the perfect midfielder for us, but we had him and then lost him because we didn't trust him.
How was Sir Alex vindicated? We failed to win the title and lost our long term solution to our midfield which has even lead to us spending 27.5mill on an inferior player. He felt he was ready, sir alex didn't, I'd say evidence points that he was ready.
What does this even mean? And how Pogba tried to be 'bigger' than United by asking more chances and ultimatelly leaving us for a club who is as big as us, has a squad as good as us (arguably better) and then immediately walking in a midfield which has Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal and Assamoah when he wasn't getting a chance here and SAF preferred virtually everyone instead of him.
We don't live in a world where everyone is a United fan and dream to play for us, probably everybody should have realized this by now.
It means that demands by teenagers to play shouldn't be met unless the management agrees with them. At the time he wasn't working hard and wasn't good enough. Why do people think that he was as good as he is now two years ago? He wasn't anywhere near this level? If he had stayed here and had got games would he have got to this level? Nobody knows, maybe the change of environment helped him flourish. Either way, criticising a manager who has an enormous history of getting the best out of gifted youngsters with careful handling seems ridiculous, and Pogbas daft idea that he was never going to get his chance was always silly.
First of all, he isn't at Juve for 2 years, he has debuted for them around 15 months ago. Second while it's true that 2 years ago he wasn't as good as now, he clearly looked good at Juve as early as last September (only after a few months after his departure). So either he made some potent black magic in that summer, or he was good in his last season here. I don't think that in a few months of summer a midfielder can go from not being good enough to play in our midfield to be good enough to boss games alongside Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio.
Third, a month ago, our management agreed to demands of an another teenager. Maybe would have been better to continue playing Young, lose Januzaj in process but be proud for not leaving teenagers make demands. Helk, there were a lot of posters in that thread who preferred him leaving rather giving to his demands.
Fourth, people have retroactively changed the history of Pogba's performances in reserves after he left United. While everybody who watches reserves will agree that he didn't look as good as the season before (in U18 or whatever it was called) and looked like he didn't bother at times, he still was good in that season and was far from being average or poor. Anyway I don't think that this matters that much, Petrucci who arguably was as good/better than him struggles to get games in championship while he plays regularly for Juve and France. Macheda looked great everytime on reserves but won't make here. Moral of the story, judging by reserves form only isn't a good indication of how good a player is.
I'll say now what I said when he left. Sir Alex fecked up big time then and nothing has happened to change my opinion. Pogba was ready, SAF either thought that he wasn't ready or never rated him that much (I am sure that he rated Pogba, but did he rated him in the level of Thiago/Ilkay, those are only 2 better midfielders than him in U23 range age and both are a couple of years older). Pogba believed rightly that he was better than waiting forever and arguably go to loan before he gets his chance here. He had a good offer from a great club, he took it and he won. Looking to Powell's number of appearances last season, I don't think that the story would have been much better for Pogba if he had stayed here.
The bad part is that a year and half after he left, our midfield is still as bad as in that time. He could have solved a lot of our midfield problems and in this summer we spent 27.5m pounds in a midfielder who isn't half the player Pogba is, which makes the entire story a bit sad.
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