Paul Pogba

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In fariness...when Moyes gets his hands on Barkley for 50 million next summer to sort out our central midfield issue or nick powell beats all expectations and becoem the new frank lampard for us.....Pogba will be able to go and suck a fat black dick then
 
I would guess that had Moyes been in charge when we had Pogba, he would still be at the club (and that's not having a go at Ferguson). I just think Moyes would be more likely to stick a young player straight into a problem position, as he did with Januzaj the other day.
 
Ringo 07 said:
In fariness...when Moyes gets his hands on Barkley for 50 million next summer to sort out our central midfield issue or nick powell beats all expectations and becoem the new frank lampard for us.....Pogba will be able to go and suck a fat black dick then
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I can see us doing exactly that, well maybe not 50m but closer to that than 10.
 
I don't disagree with Sir Alex on much but on this I do. From a football perspective and a financial one. We fecked up. We lost Pogba for peanuts. How much is he worth today?..

But we've great potential at the club regarding youth, and as sad as it was losing Pogba - Moyes is doing a great job right now. If you're a kid now, you're seeing a kid being given a chance in a league game and it was a vital game after recent results. People that watch our kids, will know the quality we have and you never know until you try.
 
Do we have any midfielder around Pogba's level in our youth teams right now? Genuine question because I don't watch reserves or youth football (and please, do not say Tunnicliffe).
 
This thread will always go round in circles but if Pogba applied himself the way Januzaj has been then he would have been given better chances.
 
There's no doubt we could use him and we missed out on on a real talent, but does anyone honestly think things would've went differently had we played him more often?

His contract was running out and he was represented by a man who is notorious for encouraging his clients to move often. Had we played him and he proved himself to be a talent, he would just have more and probably better offers on the table and don't think for one second he wouldn't be advised to leave by his agent. Even if we gave him chances and he played like Bebe vs Wolves in all his appearances, he was still an attractive target to clubs because he was young and would cost very little.
 
Count Orduck said:
I think his point is that Anderson has been played fairly regularly -- when he's not injured -- for the past five years, despite being pretty poor on the whole. Yet Pogba, who was clearly an exceptional talent, wasn't given a chance.
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The irony of that is that Anderson was on the bench that day, watching Rafael and Park in midfield. Which makes their selection even more bizarre.

He came on at half time though.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Yep, you'd need a short memory to forget the almost annual belief that the penny has dropped.
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For some maybe. He had a couple of positive performances sure, usually against fodder, but cracking player? Or player who looks half as good as Pogba's potential? Nah
 
Anderson showed more promise in his debut season than Pogba ever has, even in a Juve shirt. Anderson has since stagnated and Pogba is now a better player than him but let's not pretend Anderson was some sort of no hoper, he was arguably the biggest prodigy in world football when we signed him up.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Anderson showed more promise in his debut season than Pogba ever has, even in a Juve shirt. Anderson has since stagnated and Pogba is now a better player than him but let's not pretend Anderson was some sort of no hoper, he was arguably the biggest prodigy in world football when we signed him up.
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I don't think that's true at all.
 
Ekeke said:
For some maybe. He had a couple of positive performances sure, usually against fodder, but cracking player? Or player who looks half as good as Pogba's potential? Nah
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The fodder part isn't true at all, he excelled against the best Liverpool team in decades around 09 and some very decent Arsenal and Chelsea teams in the same period. He is likely never to fulfil his potential but he was an incredibly exciting prospect.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
The fodder part isn't true at all, he excelled against the best Liverpool team in decades around 09 and some very decent Arsenal and Chelsea teams in the same period. He is likely never to fulfil his potential but he was an incredibly exciting prospect.
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Well no he didnt, he played quite well for a 19 year old filling in for Paul Scholes and Carrick and having to partner Hargreaves, but if you think those performances were anywhere near where he would have to be as a senior United player, you are mistaken. He did well for a youngster thats all
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Januzaj is 18, Pogba was 18 at the time and had been with us for 2 years as has Januzaj.

Pogba's been and gone and it's not worth thinking about now but seriously lets not make Januzaj out to be some sort of patient amazing saint, he's been thrusted right into it because the manager has faith in his ability, not because he's been patient.

The timescales and ages are bang on mirrored with Pogba but Januzaj is playing ahead of established Premier League talents which is a testament to the faith shown in him by the manager.

That interview is probably BS, but if I was Pogba I'd have been absolutely gutted to see Park and Rafael in midfield ahead of me. He too was an exceptional talent who needed chances...he rarely got them. Good to see Moyes looking to bring through the talent already at the club.
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The first part... I disagree with. Though it's not the same situation, you could quite easily use the logic in the part in bold with Januzaj and say that he should have been disappointed with not getting game time ahead of Young or Valencia last season. Even a few minutes off the bench, considering they were both awful.

Pogba is talented, but he didn't have the patience to succeed here. It's easier to break into Juventus' midfield because they play a 3-5-2, so there's a higher chance of him playing more games. Truth be told, had he stayed, he would have played more and both parties would have benefited greatly. Cleverley was poor in the second half of last season; Anderson was returning from the injury he picked up vs. Reading and looked poor as usual when he comes back; and thus, Fergie tested a couple of partnerships. We played Carrick-Giggs, Carrick-Cleverley, Carrick-Anderson, Anderson-Giggs, Carrick-Jones, etc. Pogba would have found himself in there.

The final part of your post, I also disagree with. I mean, what right does a young player have to think like that? They have the right to express their opinion, but IMO Fergie thought Blackburn would have been an easy fixture. Plus, you play players based on form/experience. Was Pogba in form? Of course not. Anyone who watched the reserves knows this. He often looked like a Berbatov in midfield. Very inconsistent, extreme levels of nonchalance, so why should that be rewarded? Did he show anything vs. Crystal Palace? No, definitely not. In fact, it was another youngster who displayed some beautiful touches in that match: Ravel Morrison.

Fergie's biggest mistake wasn't that he didn't play Pogba because that was justified, but his biggest mistake was hyping him up in 11/12, which probably led to Pogba's ego increasing in size.
 
From what i'm reading about his nonchalance it sounds like he already had one foot out the door.....

The reason Januzaj plays so hard is because he wants to be in the first team and he wants the manager to see it, Pogba comes across as confident in his abilities and we all know teams contact players/agents BEFORE the six month period. He new about Juve and all the other teams wanting him, his effort dropped. His cousin is a musician and United fan to boot, he has hinted about things on twitter but gone into no detail. That was more around the time he was still here and his first season at Juve. I understand letting Morrison go, he had to leave Manchester but Pogba is a shame, watching him shine for Juve in a position where his talent would have been invaluable. Anyone who says he is getting carried at Juve must not have watched him for France. I watched him dominate a midfield that had Xavi, Busquets and Alonso in it. He looked amazing,that strength, touch composure, passing ability and that ability to get stuck in. Flashes of Patrick Viera. Sad to have let such a talent go but these things happen, it doesn't have to be anyones's 'fault'

p.s If he was British I think he would still be here.
 
He seems to give interviews about himself and United every couple of weeks, is he that obsessed? United have moved on without him, so should he. Fair fecks to him though proving himself at Juve
 
SATA said:
He seems to give interviews about himself and United every couple of weeks, is he that obsessed? United have moved on without him, so should he. Fair fecks to him though proving himself at Juve
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That's an exaggeration. Also, if that's what he keeps being asked about then that's what will keep appearing in the press.
 
Baxter said:
That's an exaggeration. Also, if that's what he keeps being asked about then that's what will keep appearing in the press.
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Well he could say "I don't want to talk about that, I've moved on, let's not dwell on the past" or something.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
That interview is probably BS, but if I was Pogba I'd have been absolutely gutted to see Park and Rafael in midfield ahead of me. He too was an exceptional talent who needed chances...he rarely got them. Good to see Moyes looking to bring through the talent already at the club.
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I remember we discussed Pogba not playing that game at length. Understandable Pogba being disillusioned not playing that game ahead of a right back, and Park who hardly featured in the middle, and wasn't in particularly good form.
 
I genuinely don't know why Fergie never gave him more of a chance. His talent was clear for anyone to see in a position we are still struggling with now. One of the most baffling and frustrating things about the club in more recent times. Seems a no brainer.
 
TheReligion said:
I genuinely don't know why Fergie never gave him more of a chance. His talent was clear for anyone to see in a position we are still struggling with now. One of the most baffling and frustrating things about the club in more recent times. Seems a no brainer.
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Stubbornness is the only thing I can think of.
 
There's probably a reason Ferguson didn't pick Pogba more: he was average in his last year or so in the reserves. He'd disappear for long periods of games and it would seem that he didn't always apply himself.

Plus, there's the fact that Pogba's agent wanted assurances in any new contract that he would be guaranteed games. No one gets that here, so why should Pogba?
 
I think Pogbas reserve form gets massively overplayed. At the time people had accepted that he was probably leaving and suddenly Petrucci was actually playing better.

Not that Pogba was always great that year, but I still remember some very good performances from him in the reserves. He definitely wasn't as bad as some make out and his quality generally stood out. Besides, he did very well in his cameos for the first team, which should have got him more chances.
 
pocco said:
I think Pogbas reserve form gets massively overplayed. At the time people had accepted that he was probably leaving and suddenly Petrucci was actually playing better.

Not that Pogba was always great that year, but I still remember some very good performances from him in the reserves. He definitely wasn't as bad as some make out and his quality generally stood out. Besides, he did very well in his cameos for the first team, which should have got him more chances.
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Thing is, his quality didn't generally stand out. Barring some sporadic brilliance, he coasted through games for the best part of a year. It's a justifiable reason for not getting more games for the first team.
 
He can claim all he wants about this game or that but the moment he signed on with Raiola he was gone.
 
Siorac said:
Well he could say "I don't want to talk about that, I've moved on, let's not dwell on the past" or something.
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We could all say the same thing. I mean, we lost him quite a long time ago now, it is arguably time to move on, yet this is one of the hottest threads on the caf right now. If we are still interested in talking about it, why shouldnt he? He was far more invested in the situation that we were, after all. That still doesnt mean it is him banging on about us every 2 weeks because he wants to. There is a difference between bringing something up yourself and answering questions on it, but also between being willing to answer questions on something and stonewalling someone who brings it up. Why should he refuse to answer questions? Apparently he is happy with how things turned out so presumably he has no problem talking about it.

Here's a thought. If people dont want him talking about it, they need to encourage journalists to stop asking about it. How to do that? Maybe stop showing such avid interest every time a story is written about it. If every time the tabloids churn out another highly formulaic, insight-free article about Pogba it gets thousands of hits on their website and triggers another 20 pages of discussions on the various message boards they track, they will judge that story to have been a success and make a note to write another 2 weeks later. Once people lose interest in it they will stop.
 
De Selby said:
There's probably a reason Ferguson didn't pick Pogba more: he was average in his last year or so in the reserves. He'd disappear for long periods of games and it would seem that he didn't always apply himself.

Plus, there's the fact that Pogba's agent wanted assurances in any new contract that he would be guaranteed games. No one gets that here, so why should Pogba?
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I think that was more of a case of him playing below a level where he thought he should be at that time. He'd already lost interest then if his interview can be believed and it's no surprise his level of performance dropped. Still think even then he stood out though. There's no disguising it was terribly handled by the club from Fergie not playing him to the powers that be allowing his contract to dwindle. Very poor.
 
The fact is our midfield is still lacking and Pogba is at Juventus generally doing very well.

It's not even a discussion, we came off a lot worse from not giving him opportunities in the first team than he did leaving.

If he becomes as good as his potential appears to be, he may well get an even bigger move one day assuming Juve remain a level or two below the absolute elite.

I've seen John O'Shea Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher play in the reserves and put in worse performances, regardless of the fact that their inclusion was mainly for fitness. Even still, when it's blatantly obvious that you're a level above something there has to come a point that you become disillusioned, especially when a spot closer to your level becomes open (a game against the bottom side? Which your manager didn't take seriously).

Given that reserve football is pretty stagnant and not particularly competitive I think it takes a seriously committed player who hasn't been hyped up to work at it. Pogba must have believed in his own hype and whilst I don't particularly like that, he's not fully responsible for that. Sir Alex was near perfect in his work, but we can all pick out examples of him mismanaging players and Pogba just about comes into it.

I think some people have been blinded by Januzaj's likeable style of play though. Their situations are very similar but Januzaj's potential has been seen as something which can be used in the first team because certain players are not performing. Pogba may well have done the same if he was given some genuine action in the league. I've said before that's a made up scenario but it may well have happened.

I should stop going on about it, rereading this makes me sound bitter although I'm not at all!
 
Bestie07 said:
He probably would have left anyway, his agent was Raiola. But we really should have played him in that Blackburn game, if only to avoid having this discussion 21 months 8 days later.
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http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2013/10/10/4323935/-

The France international has attracted interest from clubs throughout Europe with his impressive displays and the Bianconeri are concerned they will not be able to keep him

Juventus president Andrea Agnelli has admitted the club would find it hard to refuse a “massive” offer for star midfielder Paul Pogba.

Pogba has impressed for the Bianconeri since joining from Manchester United in 2012, but Agnelli fears that Italian football’s economic uncompetitiveness could mean they lose the 20-year-old.

“If we got a massive offer for Pogba, will we be able to retain him? I don't think so, we have not got the economic strength,” said Agnelli at the Leaders in Football conference at Stamford Bridge.

“We can be attractive but I don't think we have the economic strength to fight against the others and retain such a player.

“Italy is no longer a final destination, it’s a transition destination.

“Italy needs to come into some serious reforms as at the moment we are in no-man's land. We have to reform the stadiums because that's where the shows are made.”
 
gulli_G said:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2013/10/10/4323935/-

The France international has attracted interest from clubs throughout Europe with his impressive displays and the Bianconeri are concerned they will not be able to keep him

Juventus president Andrea Agnelli has admitted the club would find it hard to refuse a “massive” offer for star midfielder Paul Pogba.

Pogba has impressed for the Bianconeri since joining from Manchester United in 2012, but Agnelli fears that Italian football’s economic uncompetitiveness could mean they lose the 20-year-old.

“If we got a massive offer for Pogba, will we be able to retain him? I don't think so, we have not got the economic strength,” said Agnelli at the Leaders in Football conference at Stamford Bridge.

“We can be attractive but I don't think we have the economic strength to fight against the others and retain such a player.

“Italy is no longer a final destination, it’s a transition destination.

“Italy needs to come into some serious reforms as at the moment we are in no-man's land. We have to reform the stadiums because that's where the shows are made.”
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Go get slap head!
 
He will move on from club to club like Ibrahimovic. That is the what his agent (Raoila? does with his big clients.
 
Would turn out to be the most expensive loan move ever if we shelled out £30m-£40m for him, but he's perfect for us tbh. The only thing is if he returned, he would return 'victorious' over us, as if we have begged him to come back. That said, we'd also win the European Cup in a couple of years so it isn't all bad.

Also, if Juve are saying this, then surely Vidal can be bought for the right price too?
 
NM said:
He will move on from club to club like Ibrahimovic. That is the what his agent (Raoila? does with his big clients.
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Tbf to Zlatan, I don't think his moves can be put down to greed per se. Of course, he was always going to leave Ajax and go on to bigger things. Didn't Juve get relegated before he left them for Inter? Then moving to Barcelona is the holy grail really, and I'm sure he would have stayed there if things had worked out differently. Milan were skint and seemingly forced him out for the money from what I gather.
 
Rozay said:
Would turn out to be the most expensive loan move ever if we shelled out £30m-£40m for him, but he's perfect for us tbh. The only thing is if he returned, he would return 'victorious' over us, as if we have begged him to come back. That said, we'd also win the European Cup in a couple of years so it isn't all bad.

Also, if Juve are saying this, then surely Vidal can be bought for the right price too?
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I think that boat has sailed, especially with Fergie as a director I think Moyes would have a word with him about his attitude near the end. If he drops his agent and changes his attitude, or has any affection to the club then maybe, but since he's been gone i've not heard much about his affection for the club. Most likely he will go to PSG, Monaco, in his homeland or Madrid/Barca where he and Riola will get the fattest paycheck
 
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