Is anyone taking bets for 20 years later where he says he regrets he moved away too early
Paul Pogba
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Well he percieved the level to be beneath him which I agreed with. He had outgrown reserve football by that stage, he could quiet easily had made an impact while playing at 60/70% if he was playing regularly though. Like ronaldo in his final year with us, not great but good.
It's not up to him to decide the level is beneath him, what kind of terrible attitude is that to have. Plus you can't compare his situation to Ronaldo. I don't recall him impressing at reserve level, he was very underwhelming IMO.
Look at Januzaj, he's the youngest u21 and the best by far. Would you like him to act like the level us beneath him and play at 50-60%.
FWIW I was a massive fan of Pogba and like many others was eagerly awaiting his step up to the first team. But you don't just decide that you're too good for the reserves so you don't bother. You play out of your skin and prove to the manager that you deserve to be in the first team, just like Januzaj has been doing all season.
Came in here to see why this thread had so many views. Lesson learnt, never again.
The whole point of playing reserve football is that you get a chance at the next level. Pogba believed that Sir Alex wasnt going to play him no matter what so whats the point in trying his hardest as his performance is not related to opportunities. He was right as last year was suppose to be Sir Alex's last so he wanted to leave on a high hence went with the safe option rather than trying a youngster who might have cost us a title shot but with a great upside.
Its not a terrible attitude but rather a very accurate assessment of his own skills. Unless you believe that Juve coaches are so superior to ours that in three months they transformed a reserve player into one that is impressing in Serie A. He was capable of performing at the same level last year if given a chance which he wasnt.
If janujaz is stuck in the reserves for the next two years with moyes citing him as a reason for not signing a winger/am while not playing him watch his performance level drop. Its all about motivation and pogba had no motivation to impress. That coupled with his fleeting performances were the reason he wasnt shining at reserve level.
The ronaldo example is apt as watch his second last,last season with us and first season with real madrid. There is a drop in quality in his last season as he didnt want to be here until the latter stages of CL when he had motivation to perform.
But you're talking like Pogba was in the reserves for years. It was his first proper season in the reserves, the year before he was playing in the youth cup whilst playing reserves as well.
It wasn't Fergie's last season and Pogba was on the cusp of the first team ffs he was involved in the squads. You're telling me that being put on the bench isn't enough motivation to work his arse off in reserves and show Fergie that he's mentally ready? Regardless of how good he thought he was, he should have made the effort himself, he was so so close.
It wasn't Fergie's last season and Pogba was on the cusp of the first team ffs he was involved in the squads. You're telling me that being put on the bench isn't enough motivation to work his arse off in reserves and show Fergie that he's mentally ready? Regardless of how good he thought he was, he should have made the effort himself, he was so so close.
Also MJJ you're forgetting that Ronaldo was injured for the first couple months, but yeah let's not compare the situation of him and a player who hadn't proved himself at first team level.
Lots of sources say that last year was suppose to be Sir Alex's last season but because city won he couldnt leave like that. Our midfield couldnt have been in a worse situation last year and despite continual praise he wasnt give a chance. Looking at his quotes after he left, its obvious he felt that he wont be given a chance no matter what. Being on the bench is not the same as being involved, I would expect a midfielder to be picked ahead of rafael and park, if he is part of our first team squad. Him being on the bench was a compromise to him not playing games that often. If he was given 15-20 min most games during the start of the season he would have stayed.
Look at thiago who wants to leave barca due to lack of playing time, young players want to play. Particularly if they know they are good enough.
It might have been his first season but he was beyond that level. There is a reason that janujaz is playing reserve football despite being so young. None of our coaches thought that he hasnt had a proper season at the U18 level, lets keep him there. He was good enough and there is no pressure of winning so he was moved up.
I was comparing them to show the importance of motivation, nothing else.
MJJ is making a good point we did not handle him well imo and if we continue to act that way with young talent we will lose them which is a waste of money and time. He would have been able to hold down a midfield spot for 5-10 years and after losing Ravel it hurts to lose our two brightest young players we are now waiting another 2-3 years for players to step up and looking to spend 20-30 million in the meantime.
He knew and Fergie knew he was too good for the reserves and Fergie tried to appease him by playing him in the league cup with the fringe squad. Playing with those players meant he had less room for error will playing with the 1st team means he can learn wile playing like he is doing at Juve and also have less pressure. It was not enough for him so he left we will move on. Imagine being a young player who is on the edge of the first team squad and we bring a 37 year old out of retirement rather than let you play. Fergie was saying one thing to him and doing another. His cousin is a United fan and is on twitter and was hinting as much at the start of the season. I think once Scholes came back that was it for him. Like he said he just wanted to play. People need to stop asking him about us it is annoying ask him about Juve.
p.s If he was British I reckon he would have stayed but being from the continent there is so much opportunity out there he could have played in France, Spain or Italy for big teams. Also Sir Alex can't relate to him like he can a lad from Salford, Everton or Cardiff.
He knew and Fergie knew he was too good for the reserves and Fergie tried to appease him by playing him in the league cup with the fringe squad. Playing with those players meant he had less room for error will playing with the 1st team means he can learn wile playing like he is doing at Juve and also have less pressure. It was not enough for him so he left we will move on. Imagine being a young player who is on the edge of the first team squad and we bring a 37 year old out of retirement rather than let you play. Fergie was saying one thing to him and doing another. His cousin is a United fan and is on twitter and was hinting as much at the start of the season. I think once Scholes came back that was it for him. Like he said he just wanted to play. People need to stop asking him about us it is annoying ask him about Juve.
p.s If he was British I reckon he would have stayed but being from the continent there is so much opportunity out there he could have played in France, Spain or Italy for big teams. Also Sir Alex can't relate to him like he can a lad from Salford, Everton or Cardiff.
@MJJ
Firstly you need to remember that Fergie has never been one to reward someone that doesn't work hard. Regardless of how talented he was, he still had it all to prove and he should have done so.
How many 18 year olds do you know that can demand to be a first team player at a club like ours without putting in the necessary work.
You talk about that blackburn game but lets put things into perspective. We had a makeshift centre back partnership with Carrick playing there. In the middle of the park we had Rafael and Park, so you're suggesting that not only should we have Carrick in defence, but in front if him we should have played Pogba alongside either Park who's hardly renowned for being a central midfield maestro or Rafael the right back.
Do you not think that Fergie may have been protecting Pogba? Look at Gibson for example, even I remember rating him in the year he was scoring screamers for fun. The following season he put in poor performances and the majority of the fans turned against him. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Pogba isn't better that Gibson, but Gibson is a prime example of what can happen if you don't hit the ground running. If Pogba had put in poor performances and the fans turned against him it would have shattered his confidence. As we all know we lost that game, there's no saying that we would have done better with Pogba playing and had we lost with him playing badly then everyone would be screaming asking why Fergie chucked him in without easing him in.
I'll bring up his carling cup performances again. Watch them and tell me if you really think that he looked like a kid ready to start a premier league team in a makeshift team like we played that day. I remember Morrison really shining and Pogba looking nervy.
I'm sorry but I think he should have done more to prove he was ready, his performances in the first team and his laziness or whatever you like to call it in reserves didn't show that he was ready regardless of what he's done this season. IMO of course.
Firstly you need to remember that Fergie has never been one to reward someone that doesn't work hard. Regardless of how talented he was, he still had it all to prove and he should have done so.
How many 18 year olds do you know that can demand to be a first team player at a club like ours without putting in the necessary work.
You talk about that blackburn game but lets put things into perspective. We had a makeshift centre back partnership with Carrick playing there. In the middle of the park we had Rafael and Park, so you're suggesting that not only should we have Carrick in defence, but in front if him we should have played Pogba alongside either Park who's hardly renowned for being a central midfield maestro or Rafael the right back.
Do you not think that Fergie may have been protecting Pogba? Look at Gibson for example, even I remember rating him in the year he was scoring screamers for fun. The following season he put in poor performances and the majority of the fans turned against him. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Pogba isn't better that Gibson, but Gibson is a prime example of what can happen if you don't hit the ground running. If Pogba had put in poor performances and the fans turned against him it would have shattered his confidence. As we all know we lost that game, there's no saying that we would have done better with Pogba playing and had we lost with him playing badly then everyone would be screaming asking why Fergie chucked him in without easing him in.
I'll bring up his carling cup performances again. Watch them and tell me if you really think that he looked like a kid ready to start a premier league team in a makeshift team like we played that day. I remember Morrison really shining and Pogba looking nervy.
I'm sorry but I think he should have done more to prove he was ready, his performances in the first team and his laziness or whatever you like to call it in reserves didn't show that he was ready regardless of what he's done this season. IMO of course.
So you are saying he wasnt ready to play first team football for us? I can accept that as he was only 18 at that time and didnt have that much experience. Why then did Sir Alex kept on citing him as a reason for us not buying a midfielder. Its either pogba is ready to be fourth/fifth choice midfielder or we need to buy a new one. You cant tell a young player that and not play him.
I would have played him in midfield alongside carrick and played a proper defender as a centreback(from the reserves, probably thorpe). So you think the fans would have turned against pogba if he played 10 games that season? I doubt it. All of us knew he was young and has potential and we would have given him a chance. The general feeling going into that season was that it was going to be a transitional one.
That same kid is playing as first choice replacement for juventus in a league renown for racism. Again unless things changed massively during the three months he spent with juve staff I believe that yes he had the necessary mentality to play ten games for us that season.
If he wasnt ready, Sir Alex should never have mentioned him as a reason for us not buying a midfielder. He basically told him and the media that he will have a role to play that year and then didnt use him.
Rafael went straight into our first team without playing reserve football at age 18 because he was ready. Ditto with fabregas. Age is just a number, if you are good enough thats all that matters.
I would have played him in midfield alongside carrick and played a proper defender as a centreback(from the reserves, probably thorpe). So you think the fans would have turned against pogba if he played 10 games that season? I doubt it. All of us knew he was young and has potential and we would have given him a chance. The general feeling going into that season was that it was going to be a transitional one.
That same kid is playing as first choice replacement for juventus in a league renown for racism. Again unless things changed massively during the three months he spent with juve staff I believe that yes he had the necessary mentality to play ten games for us that season.
If he wasnt ready, Sir Alex should never have mentioned him as a reason for us not buying a midfielder. He basically told him and the media that he will have a role to play that year and then didnt use him.
Rafael went straight into our first team without playing reserve football at age 18 because he was ready. Ditto with fabregas. Age is just a number, if you are good enough thats all that matters.
I agree with everything Genius Me has said on this issue
It's a funny issue because there's 2 sides of the fence and there's no middle ground, everyone is strongly opinionated with whatever side of the argument they agree with and I don't think there will be any room for changes to our respective opinions.
Edit: We should make a poll to see what side of the fence everyone sits, it will save the roundabouts that we keep going round in this thread.
I second this view
MJJ I don't disagree with you that he was ready to play for our first team, his performances when he came on for the first team showed that he was. My point is that he should have used those games to spur him on and really show himself in the reserves so that the manager starts trusting him in more matches for the first team. He didn't impose himself for me and really show his hunger which is where I agree with the manager that he didn't get his games. This is a guy who changed his agent twice since winning the fayc.
Regarding your first paragraph - it it doesn't work like that. The young player doesn't decide he's too good and deserves a first XI spot. They are earned, and by the sounds of it he thought he was owed a starting berth and his performances in the magoos reflected this.
I could understand his position more if he was an experienced pro, like say Berbatov, but for a youngster who had proven nothing to act like a first XI position is his right is a joke to be fair. At the end of the day he should have been determined to prove his own thoughts and destroyed the ressies, and made it impossible not to be picked by SAF. But he didn't, and the rest is history.
Great goal against Lazio in the Italian supercup. Average game by Tevez, so slow. Lazio 0 Juve 1 at half time
Reports saying he has been awesome first half. Honestly I love watching him play.
He's nailed on to become one of the best midfielders in the world. The way he's been improving in the last 12 months is impressive.
I honestly feel like punching a kitten whenever someone bumps this thread with good news.
Was there an injury? I'm sure he started on the bench.
We fecked it up so badly. I honestly cannot think of one midfielder that'd suit us better and be available right now, another season at the same level and he'll be up there with the likes of Vidal, Gundogan and Wilshere if he isn't already. It's frightening to think that with two moves we could have been lining up with Thiago and Pogba in midfield right now, it'd be absolutely amazing.
I dont think we fecked anything up. We could never have given him the kind of gametime he's getting at Juve while playing just 2 CMs. It sucks but thats the way it is. He'l become a top player though but then everyone knew it already.
The ugly fecker Tevez scored ?
I always thought it was odd he didn't come on the pre-season tour given how much Fergie was bigging him up, was he injured at the time? With the way it's gone for Januzaj and too a lesser degree Lingaard I wonder if that time gelling with the first team squad and getting some games even against lesser teams might have made the season go differently for him and ultimately us in regards to him. Oh well you win some, you lose some, at the end of the day there's no saying if he had of stayed that we wouldn't have given him time last season in the same way Juve did and when he did get his chances in the league cup he really didn't stand out at all, not in the way morrison did.
The Thiago is understandable, wanted to join a club of similar stature and play under the man who gave him his first chance.
Pogba though. fecks sake.
Of course we could. He's a better player than Cleverley right now and he's all round game is good enough to compliment Carrick. Let's not pretend playing in our midfield requires so much skills that someone like Pogba wouldn't cope.
We'd have got Thiago IMO if we'd acted quicker. Guardiola only seriously came in for him around Euros, I think his decision to move was made earlier and he'd been waiting for offers.
I meant back in the 11-12 season run in. It was too close to take the risk. Another season at Juve and he'l get even better, doesnt mean he was ready to play alongside Carrick for the title run in back then though.
Probably a discussion for other thread, but it's becoming a trend that youngsters signed from foreign academies doesn't seem too be so successful.
City' best talent Denis Suarez is also close to move to Barcelona after being frustrated of lack of chances.
City' best talent Denis Suarez is also close to move to Barcelona after being frustrated of lack of chances.
Nah, he might have not made the first team week in week out but he was good enough to get some time. A considerably better contract and a firm promise of more inutes would have convinced him to stay too, I reckon.
Dunno but from what I've read he'll move to Barcelona B and will be promoted next year.
Probably. But with the promises Juve had already made(and lived upto tbf), few mins here and there was never going to do it.
Good for him. Anything that takes him away from City.
I guess though that's the problem with taking young players from smaller academies and bringing them in to massive squads. I mean Pogba is an odd one because we clearly had the weakness in the middle but at the same time he was perhaps a little too raw that season. In all honesty I think if we had had another peak midfielder around who could have looked after him we might have seen him more. Games he could have played were games Carrick likely would have been rested and we didn't have anyone else who could look after someone in the middle.
It's like with Januzaj atm he's saying all the right things but when you look at the sheer number of players he's currently competing with, Rooney, kagawa, welbeck, hernandez, valencia, nani, young, zaha, for a spot in the team with RVP, you can easily see it might be very tough for him to get games, same with Powell and Henriquez. These guys are too good for the reserve league and so to progress they need to play either for us, where it looks unlikely they'd get much time or on loan which is rarely ideal.
That's the other problem with Chelsea and City investing so much in established players in recent years. It's meant there's very little room for error which always makes it harder to bring in a younger player due to the added risk.
It's like with Januzaj atm he's saying all the right things but when you look at the sheer number of players he's currently competing with, Rooney, kagawa, welbeck, hernandez, valencia, nani, young, zaha, for a spot in the team with RVP, you can easily see it might be very tough for him to get games, same with Powell and Henriquez. These guys are too good for the reserve league and so to progress they need to play either for us, where it looks unlikely they'd get much time or on loan which is rarely ideal.
That's the other problem with Chelsea and City investing so much in established players in recent years. It's meant there's very little room for error which always makes it harder to bring in a younger player due to the added risk.
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