Paul Pogba
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Primadona big ego Teenager with Raiola's as agent that would have left in 2/3 seasons max too.
bullshit
Change the system we play for a teenager?
I love Sir Alex and there's obviously a reason why he wasn't selected, but the teenager bit is irrelevent. Did Barcelona take that outlook with Messi? Us with Giggs? No. We might have well if we believed he would be the future.
I know people were critical of his performances in reserves but when you step into the first team, you're playing with better players and then it's up to you. Are you good enough?
Sadly our reserves are on tv a lot and that fat leech got to him and will turn him into an asshole because he's an asshole who leeches off the game
There was just too much on stake with the rise of City to play a unproven teenager. Fergie obviously thought he wasn't ready to be a regular, but good enough to be on the bench. Further more, we didn't have a team with world class players in place to cover for Pogba's inexperience. Barcelona had Ronaldinho, Xavi, Deco, Puyol. Barcelona were at that team considered as the best team in Europe. Introducing Messi in the team was easier (but Messi was already a magnificent player).
Also to be fair, it wouldn't have been 'for a teenager'. It would have been because more and more teams across Europe play three man midfields as standard, and as a result fewer and fewer of the top players are comfortable in two man midfields.
It wasn't the point I was making, though. I personally don't think Pogba ever would have suited us. At least not as well as he suits Juve. Theres simply no job in an English team, however many midfielders they play, with such narrow responsibilities and low required work rate as the anchoring role at Juve.
It wasn't the point I was making, though. I personally don't think Pogba ever would have suited us. At least not as well as he suits Juve. Theres simply no job in an English team, however many midfielders they play, with such narrow responsibilities and low required work rate as the anchoring role at Juve.
Change the system we play for a teenager?
I think it's one instance of what will become a wider issue in the coming years. Said at the time that our insistence on a 2 man midfield would severely hamper the chances of Pogba and I fear the same with others in the future. Whatever there is to be said about what level Cleverley is at, he's a bit different in that he focuses on trying to be available for the ball in order to give Carrick an option. Powell is going to have to step this aspect of his game up a bit in order to make a mark in central midfield in a deeper role (if that is where we intend to use him).
Agree with Brightonian, though. There's being positionally indisciplined/lazy and then there's being Paul Pogba. There's a strong possibility playing him alone next to even Carrick would have been pretty suicidal so it was always going to be difficult to accommodate him.
But when isn't there too much at stake? There's always a title challenge from some direction. We have to be able to give youngsters a chance whilst fending off opposition, otherwise we will just buy established stars and play our veterans until the day they retire.
And we do. Hence Cleverley, Welbeck, the da Silvas...
Unfortunately, Pogba was never quite right for us at the right time. His superb performances at Juve don't change that. If anything, they confirm it.
Personally, I rather like it when things turn out the way they have. Pogba finds a team and a system that suits him, and is playing excellent football. Juve gamble on a youngster and it pays off. We certainly haven't suffered, with Carrick available and playing superbly all season. Everyone wins.
When will everyone admit that we just fecked this one up. David Johnson, who has a proven track record of being reliable said that Pogba left because we'd only offer 12k whilst he was wanting 20k. The cost of taking a punt on even a cheap midfielder would have covered that, just look at how much we paid for Powell.
It must have also been pretty gutting for Pogba to see Rafael, Scholes, Giggs etc all get games ahead of him in midfield either via coming out of retirement or just being played out of position. Fergie lost his nerve and wouldnt give the boy a chance and paid for it. Juve took a leap of faith in him and it paid off. Its just more and more obvious how bad Fergie's blind spot for CMs is. Had it been one of the most exciting young strikers in Europe im pretty confident we'd have stumped up the cash.
Also I doubt he'd even have played this year, Fergie prefers to play a striker or aging winger in midfield over our best young CM, Cleverley.
It must have also been pretty gutting for Pogba to see Rafael, Scholes, Giggs etc all get games ahead of him in midfield either via coming out of retirement or just being played out of position. Fergie lost his nerve and wouldnt give the boy a chance and paid for it. Juve took a leap of faith in him and it paid off. Its just more and more obvious how bad Fergie's blind spot for CMs is. Had it been one of the most exciting young strikers in Europe im pretty confident we'd have stumped up the cash.
Also I doubt he'd even have played this year, Fergie prefers to play a striker or aging winger in midfield over our best young CM, Cleverley.
Quinton, are you saying we should be giving into demands of Pogba? It's not just about Pogba, it's the precedent it sets. What are we going to do when other youngsters start making demands and threaten to leave if we don't give in, it's dangerous territory that you're wanting us to get into.
I mean, wasn't Welbeck only on 20k himself? And he had a premier league loan before hand, Pogba was 17 ffs. We didn't feck up, it's not our fault he was impatient.
I mean, wasn't Welbeck only on 20k himself? And he had a premier league loan before hand, Pogba was 17 ffs. We didn't feck up, it's not our fault he was impatient.
How many youth players have be brought through that are arguably the best youth talent at their position in the world? We gave into the demands who Rooney who dragged the club backwards through the mud to get a pay rise, did that not set the precedent too?
Quite simply we're now in a position where we'll have to splash god knows how much on a midfielder or two when we could have made a massive saving if Fergie just put trust in the players he already has. Its madness.
Yeah, it's what made people think Morrison was the superior talent at the time. I don't think there is anything Morrison can do with a football that Pogba can't but he was significantly more advanced in terms of footballing maturity, intelligence, etc....
I do regret that we couldn't keep hold of Pogba but people will see some of the things he does now and forget that his biggest weakness is the thing that needed to be one of his biggest strengths. He'd already be one of the very top midfielders around if this part of his game was there and he would've walked into our first XI. This is obviously not to say he won't improve in this aspect but this is the main reason he didn't get more of a chance here.
Who?
A reliable ITK I'm sure...
The chav off twitter, hasnt been wrong in about 2 years. Has always had the inside scoop
seriously are we doing this again??? Have a read of the thread.....
This. Honestly, the same thing again and again: 'He's playing well for Juve, therefore we must have massively fecked up to let him go because he should be starting for us.'
Why can't we ever discuss him on this thread without someone turning it into a huge drama? Like I said above, no-one has really suffered from him leaving us. Pogba gets to play, Juve get a good player, and we don't mind because Carrick's been an ever-present anyway. So why the hair-tearing?
Yeah to be fair its not like we're lacking an imposing CM, oh wait...
Why are people so sensitive about other's regretting Pogba's departure? It's quite strange, seem to really have an agenda that we are allowed to compliment him, but any references about his time here people seem to have a sensitive spot over.
I think the main reason for the 'hair-tearing' is simply because a young talented CM in the mould of someone like Pogba would be useful, he is playing very well and chances are that he will become better.
Also because the combative type of midfielder he appears to be becoming is quite sought after today strangely... Still, me personally I am glad he is gone, purely for his attitude. I am not one of the people who call for every player to have a degree in morals exactly, I'm just saying the boy was very easy with words and held himself in too high a regard IMO, would be a few years before he runs to the press to drive up wages with Juventus I would imagine... if he last's that long.
Very good talent, but I can't personally see him going on to become 'world class' I.E. one of the top 5 midfielders at any point, due to his attitude unfortunately, for me he doesn't have the kind of skill that will still be evident despite a shit head on the shoulders... players in the past like Best, Ronaldinho to an extent..
Brightonian said:
I think the main reason for the 'hair-tearing' is simply because a young talented CM in the mould of someone like Pogba would be useful, he is playing very well and chances are that he will become better.
Also because the combative type of midfielder he appears to be becoming is quite sought after today strangely... Still, me personally I am glad he is gone, purely for his attitude. I am not one of the people who call for every player to have a degree in morals exactly, I'm just saying the boy was very easy with words and held himself in too high a regard IMO, would be a few years before he runs to the press to drive up wages with Juventus I would imagine... if he last's that long.
Very good talent, but I can't personally see him going on to become 'world class' I.E. one of the top 5 midfielders at any point, due to his attitude unfortunately, for me he doesn't have the kind of skill that will still be evident despite a shit head on the shoulders... players in the past like Best, Ronaldinho to an extent..
Either you don't know what imposing means, or you haven't really been watching Pogba for Juve this season.
Even ignoring that, who are you going to drop? Carrick? Because Pogba sure as hell isn't going to be able to play as the energetic one next to him.
I'm not sensitive about it at all. It's those who seem so invested in it one way or another who irritate me a little, because it keeps disrupting perfectly decent debate. What I am saying is that lots of people on here seem to be using his performance at Juve as evidence of one opinion or the other but don't actually seem to have watched him. He's certainly not been a 'combative' midfielder for Juve. His job has been quite the opposite, to be very composed and efficient, elegantly blocking angles of attack and sweeping up loose balls without too much puffing and panting.
Which is why I keep saying that I don't think he could have done what he's doing at Juve if he'd stayed with us. We just don't have room in our system for that sort of midfielder.
He's been good at Juve. We couldn't keep him. Tough luck, get over it.
I think there are more posts telling people to get over it than people getting hysterical about his departure, to be fair.
I think there are more posts telling people to get over it than people getting hysterical about his departure, to be fair.
Probably. But if one idiot butts into a conversation amongst several sensible people, they're all going to want to tell him to shut up. So it makes sense.
People get seriously defensive because they know we were wrong to let him go
This thread keeps going round and round in circles.
It was actually awkward timing, the beginning of my post, then quoting yours, I wasn't referring to yourself as sensitive FWIW. I haven't seen a lot this season, I have seen replays etc and try to catch highlights, but I can't profess to have enough time...
Understand what you are saying in regards to the type of player he is, but why don't we have room for that type of player? Going back to the beginning of the season when SAF wasn't confused about Rooney being a forward...
It was Carrick ***, what do Cleverley/ Ando have that he doesn't, that would have stopped him getting games? I just don't see it, I believe chances are he would have displaced Clev/Ando and we would be a lot closer to selling Ando now...
Obviously this is hypothetical as he has left and we will never know, but 'types of midfielders' aside, if he turns a certain calibre, I don't see how he wouldn't have done that here, we are renowned for bringing on youth.
It's nothing to do with us knowing we were wrong to let him go. When will you realise this? He chose to go because we didnt want to bend over backwards for him.
Might I remind you that Scholes didn't really make the breakthrough at united until he was around 21-22 yet people expect us to give in to Pogba's demands of first team football and high wage demands for what he was at the time.
I was as big a fan of Pogba as anyone, but United come first every time and he should have been patient and worked harder for the reserves. You honestly think he wouldn't have been playing for us this season? He would have got plenty of games if he stayed, so yeah if anyone's to blame for Pogba's departure then it's Pogba himself.
And it probably will until the end of time.
Still not entirely true. We never "let him go". He refused to stay. There's a difference.
If anyone wants to have a bellyache about letting a really talented teenager go, then they should head over to the Ravel Morrison thread, seeing as Pogba's departure was entirely engineered by himself (well, his agent anyway)
If anyone wants to have a bellyache about letting a really talented teenager go, then they should head over to the Ravel Morrison thread, seeing as Pogba's departure was entirely engineered by himself (well, his agent anyway)
Change the system we play for a teenager?
That's not what I said, is it? The argument that someone cannot play in midfield two and hence we shouldn't go for him or keep him is daft IMO in an age when 90% of big clubs play with 3-man midfield. Pogba or no Pogba we shouldn't be looking for a midfielder with 'could play in a two' with the main criteria because frankly not many of them have got the chance to prove themselves in that formation because few teams play it.
Ravel who is tearing up the championship oh wait...
Ravel is just another in the line of nutters who are good at football.
Pogba is genuinely a top player whos cocky. I severely doubt we would have missed that 8k a week difference when we go and spunk 30m on a brand new shiny midfielder at some point
Morrison's having a decent loan spell with Brum. feck knows if he's got a long term career at the highest level. I was only mentioning his name as someone we actually "let go" unlike Pogba, who refused to sign the contract we offered him.
No idea why you seem so certain that "8k a week" was the difference between him staying and leaving?
Two things generally annoy about this thread.
1) Posters who go all at the thought of the kinda Man United player Pogba could have been.It's time to really move on, that attitude is akin to a teenage girl who had her ripped.
2) Posters who expect way too much from him in terms of performances, like one bad performance and many go " see what I did tell you about Man United not missing one thing about him".
I think we can find a middle ground when talking about him, a saner ground
1) Posters who go all
at the thought of the kinda Man United player Pogba could have been.It's time to really move on, that attitude is akin to a teenage girl who had her ripped.2) Posters who expect way too much from him in terms of performances, like one bad performance and many go " see what I did tell you about Man United not missing one thing about him".
I think we can find a middle ground when talking about him, a saner ground
This thread's always good for a laugh, bit cringey though.
Change the system we play for a teenager?
I don't want to get into the endless debate, but 'teenager' bit is irrelevant. Watching him regularly at Juve, I think that he has been this season much better than all our midfielders bar Carrick.
He was 19. And if we should have given into his demands is hard to know from us outsiders. If we believed that he can be a great player, than I think that we should have given him what he wanted. 20k (or even 30k) a week wouldn't hurt that much United, especially if this does mean that we won't have the need of signing an expensive midfielder who would be in a much greater salary. Hell, Powell's transfer fee would have paid the salary of Pogba for four years. My opinion is that we didn't value him that much, and we weren't expecting him to be as good as he has become this season. For that, I think we weren't prepared to give him what he wanted and also Fergie didn't trust him to play in midfield, even in the cases when no-one was available to play there.
Spot on.
The thread will just go in the same direction forever. Some will say what a mistake we made, while some will say we didn't, the odd one or two will chip in with silly comments about him not being anything special and rinse and repeat.
Truth be told, it's tough to say. It didn't work out sadly and in reality, Juve benefited from it all by getting a bloody good player that's likely going to be great within time. This constant talk of our system and all that other stuff shouldn't even factor into it, Pogba was a good player not being given a chance in the first team. He felt he was better than what we seemed to be showing him. We disagreed. He left...and now he's playing alongside Pirlo, Vidal and Marcisio leading Juve to league title's and playing in Champion's League ties against Bayern Munich.
Pogba get's what he wanted. Juve get what they wanted. And well we...we just move on and deal with it. A bloody good player left us, sadly that happens, life goes on. He potentially could of been outstanding for us, we'll never know though. Personally I'm happy to see him getting the game time he is for a top side, hopefully he continues to improve and mold into the player most expect he can be.
Truth be told, it's tough to say. It didn't work out sadly and in reality, Juve benefited from it all by getting a bloody good player that's likely going to be great within time. This constant talk of our system and all that other stuff shouldn't even factor into it, Pogba was a good player not being given a chance in the first team. He felt he was better than what we seemed to be showing him. We disagreed. He left...and now he's playing alongside Pirlo, Vidal and Marcisio leading Juve to league title's and playing in Champion's League ties against Bayern Munich.
Pogba get's what he wanted. Juve get what they wanted. And well we...we just move on and deal with it. A bloody good player left us, sadly that happens, life goes on. He potentially could of been outstanding for us, we'll never know though. Personally I'm happy to see him getting the game time he is for a top side, hopefully he continues to improve and mold into the player most expect he can be.
As I say David Johnson said the difference was 12 to 20. We have no reason to doubt him as hes been spot on before. Furthermore does it not piss you off we chose to play scholes and rafael rather than give him a proper go?
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