Thats absolute nonsense discrediting his performances for Juventus. He's done very nearly the same amount of defensive work and passing as the other "superstar" midfielders Juventus play with and has scored as many goals in less games
Paul Pogba
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Same amount of defensive work and Running as Vidal and Marchisio ? Either he plays or Pirlo because they can't compensate for the workrate of both.
And yeah, i never discredited his performances and his potential is obvious but he's nowhere near to running games. He floats through the games many a times right now in a slower league and a system that suits him with Asamoah, Vidal and Marchisio all working hard.
It's the catchy goals which are getting people raving right now. Bit like some of the Lampard performances right now when he scores a cracker.
And yeah, i never discredited his performances and his potential is obvious but he's nowhere near to running games. He floats through the games many a times right now in a slower league and a system that suits him with Asamoah, Vidal and Marchisio all working hard.
It's the catchy goals which are getting people raving right now. Bit like some of the Lampard performances right now when he scores a cracker.
Yeah he's talking bollocks. Probably didn't watched any reserve match last season.
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Wahey!
You're not the first person to post in here basing your opinions on YouTube clips so I won't judge you too harshly. But yes you're talking nonsense. On both accounts, about Pogba & Morrison.
Aye didn't even read about Morrison's small amount of technical ability. Jesus.
Pogba averages 2.4 tackles a game, Marchisio 2.5. Both average 1.4 interceptions per game.
Obviously he doesnt do as much as Vidal, but he does the most in europe... so its not a slight on Pogba. However sometimes Vidal has played in defence with Pogba taking his spot in midfield. Pirlo too wins the ball back a slight amount more than Pogba.
He's already demanding his wage to be doubled? We're well rid by the sounds of it.
For all the talent in the world, when it comes to the crunch you want players with the right attitude in the team. Mercenaries only get you so far. Look at the way Tevez, Nasri etc are causing a fuss at City.
For all the talent in the world, when it comes to the crunch you want players with the right attitude in the team. Mercenaries only get you so far. Look at the way Tevez, Nasri etc are causing a fuss at City.
Wow!
Good Talent he is but a mercanary beyond his means.
Raiola is annoying. He's been at the club for half a year and he'll soon try to bitch him out to PSG or Real Madrid to cash in on a massive signing on fee again. When you look at the list of his clients most of them have moved around every 2-3 years - Balotelli, Maxwell, Ibrahimovic, van Bommel and Robinho with whom he's also been involved have all had 2-3 clubs since 2010.
Nope. They play many times together, and in fact when they both start Pirlo plays better, probably because Pogba creates more space for him then Vidal or Marchisio.
To be fair, while the small amount of technical ability for Morrison is as far away from reality as it can be, I think that he has a point about us overrating him because he's English and local.
I don't think he was over-rated, I just think people don't realise the step up between reserve football and PL, you need to have a bit more about you upstairs than Morrison did, he needed to use his brain. But to say we under-rated him is surely wrong, for his age his ability was very good, its just a shame it was physical/technical attributes, whereas mentally he is a tool, with an agent, who is a bigger tool.
Morrison wasnt overrated imo.
Hes failed to deliver on his potential thus far. His ability on the ball and in possession wasnt something we all just imagined. At times he stood out a fecking mile compared to his peers.
Think history is being re-written here somewhat.
To me, Pogba always looked the better player, though if Morrison had a better brain and a better agent he could have made it to us or in another big club. Pogba has already did it.
Anyway, I have seen people here laughing to some that suggested that Pogba was the better one. Probably it was that he was a local English lad, and we all like little players who are technically great like Spanish contingent of Iniesta, Silva, Mata and co. Morrison was indeed the most exciting player at the academy, but I think that Pogba was the best one.
Anyway, I agree with you that there is a real difference between academy football and the real football. Many players who look great there, doesn't ever make to the big stage.
I just came to post how wrong irishlegend is. Pogba a class above? absolute horse shite that is. I was a big believer in Pogba and I don't doubt he would have made it here, but his attitude last year with the reserves was disgusting.
He would stroll through the games like they were beneath him and acted like he didn't deserve to play there whilst petrucci who is older was outpeforming him.
I'm sorry but you just don't reward bad attitude, he didn't show that he was too good for the reserves with his performances, if he did he wouldnt have just been knocking on the first team door he would have been kicking it down. Pogba let himself down and just because he's doing well elsewhere, we should not forget his attitude and send a message to future kids that bad attitude gets rewarded.
He made his choice when he got into bed with Raiola, his third agent in 12 months btw.
He would stroll through the games like they were beneath him and acted like he didn't deserve to play there whilst petrucci who is older was outpeforming him.
I'm sorry but you just don't reward bad attitude, he didn't show that he was too good for the reserves with his performances, if he did he wouldnt have just been knocking on the first team door he would have been kicking it down. Pogba let himself down and just because he's doing well elsewhere, we should not forget his attitude and send a message to future kids that bad attitude gets rewarded.
He made his choice when he got into bed with Raiola, his third agent in 12 months btw.
While I am still gutted that we lost him, and I think that based only on his potential and ability we probably could have closed an eye and offer him more playtime/money, in the end it is very possible that we're better without him. Knowing Raiola, he would have been asking for more money, slamming Fergie for not selecting him every couple of months. Just look at Juve, despite him getting 2 million Euro for the transfer and Pogba getting the contract he want and more playtime that he ever thought, he slammed Conte for not selecting Pogba against Nordslaellant (when Conte punished him for going late in the training) and now he has start bitching for more money. I wouldn't be surprised if he sells Pogba to Madrid, Paris, City, Russia for a ton of money in the very first opportunity.
He's an amazing talent to be fair. Yes, he didn't always 'run games' last season, but he always did enough to show he was the best player on the pitch I believe. His footwork and technical ability was something else, and I must say - despite it being largely of his (and Raiola's) doing, I am still very gutted we lost out on him. I believe it will take a long time before we have a central midfielder of his natural ability/potential in our squad again.
Offer him more money would have worked, offer him more playing time would have worked but what for? Just because he's talented? Not for me, contracts need to be earnt at our club not given. And do we need the hassle of his agent? Id rather we didn't ever sign players who are represented by that cnut, they're nothing but trouble.
He never looked the best player on the pitch last season. He was outperformed by Morrison in the carling cup matches as well btw. People forget what a sack of nerves he was in them games yet wanted him to start against blackburn in a makeshift team, don't make me laugh people.
He's just one player. I think people that regret us losing him for not bowing to his demands need to take a couple of steps back and look at the bigger picture. We are a well run club that has an ethos of working hard to get where you are. Read about Neville practicing throw ins against the wall when training was finished and being a bit of a joke amongst the other youngsters for it, then the other youngsters recognising where his work was getting him and all joining him and you'll know what it takes to succeed at United and its these standards of working hard to make it here that have been set so high that insure that only players who work hard for the club will ever make it here. It's that ethos that has made the club so successful.
Pogba might have the ability but he never had the attitude to make it here as shown by his half assed performances in the reserves last years. The fact is, he was never a United player and he's no loss because of that.
Pogba might have the ability but he never had the attitude to make it here as shown by his half assed performances in the reserves last years. The fact is, he was never a United player and he's no loss because of that.
For me its a shame, a lot talk about Morisson when they speak of Pogba, I think of it this way.
Morisson - If he filled his potential he could be amazing, with a sensible head and a bit of luck I don't doubt he could have become the Mata/ Silva esque small technically sound quick footed player.
Pogba - If he fills his potential, I don't believe he had a 'superior ceiling', I hate that term, but Pogba is something that if his potential is filled, I don't think we currently have many of in the modern game so could prove quite an asset IMO
Morisson - If he filled his potential he could be amazing, with a sensible head and a bit of luck I don't doubt he could have become the Mata/ Silva esque small technically sound quick footed player.
Pogba - If he fills his potential, I don't believe he had a 'superior ceiling', I hate that term, but Pogba is something that if his potential is filled, I don't think we currently have many of in the modern game so could prove quite an asset IMO
I meant at reserve level of course. I agree that Morrison looked more composed in his two first-team games. Pogba did look nervy, but that did begin to change over time. I remember his cameo against Stoke being impressive, as was his spell against Wolves. He also stood tall in the San Mames when if anything, our more senior players looked nervy.
In any case, I'm pretty sure we are all in agreement about his talent. I suppose the disagreement between some is whether his talent is what should have earned him what he wanted, or his effort should have. Personally, I'm somewhere in between. People say how he should have 'earned' his contract, although I believe to a large extent, being in our top few most gifted players is sort of 'earning' a contract. And yes, I believed last season, even watching reserves level, that Pogba was one of the most talented players in our squad. Had the best range of passing for me, and best shot from range (with either foot too). Also probably had the best close dribbling ability after Nani.
I don't know, or won't pretend to know, everything that went on between him and the club last season - but I am generally against persecuting people who are still essentially kids too much for attitude problems. As we love to say, 'if anyone can handle....Fergie can' - and I think people often forget the age of players when condemning off the field behaviour. For instance, there was a time when everyone started going on about how much Anelka had changed etc, but for me, the fact was just that he was simply now a grown up, and his immaturity was when he was aged 19-23 or so. If at all, it was down to a decision WE made that Pogba left, I'd have been a bit more inclined to persist with him at that stage, especially considering his talent and then make an undoubted profit at a later stage if things did not improve.
But the facts remain, he wasn't that great last year at reserve level, he was piss poor compared to how he should have been playing. He was not a standout performer and if I had only watched reserve matches last year without knowing anything about him I wouldn't have thought he was special.
He stood out a few times, but was largely unimpressive at that level considering his tag
Link and I'll give him my money.
To be fair, he played a lot of games down the right. This idea of him having a poor reserves season has been massively blown out of proportion since him leaving. Even when played out of position he put a shift in. There were some underwhelming performances, but he is allowed poor games. I remember some very good performances from him, in particular against Everton.
The fact is, whether he was performing or not, he was always around the first team. Obviously Fergie held poor performances against him less than we do. I can tell you why too,and thats because his talent and ability was far superior to others on the pitch.
People are quick to forget the weeks where he didnt feature for the reserves because he was in the first team squad, but then he didnt make the bench or come on for the first team. He was poorly managed at times in my opinion and had a stop start season because of this, in which he'd go a few week with barely any football.
I know in reality things not work this way, but we could have persuaded him to sign a new contract despite his bad attitude, and then sell him to other clubs for over +10m in a year or so after.
He was played on the right on occasions as the club used these games to test players in different positions. This has been happening since the beginning of youth football, but for the most part he played in the middle.
Regardless of where he played, he had good, average and poor games with little consistency. Normal for a young player so no problem with that.
I'm not sure he had a stop/start season at all. He played in every reserve game until Wigan Athletic towards the end of February. His Carling Cup games were on top of that. He never went weeks without a game at all. He missed the Wigan game in February as he was with the first team and missed the following match against West Brom in March because he was away on international duty. He then played in the next four consecutive reserve games leading up to mid April.
So from the beginning of the season until mid-April he was a virtual ever present plus saw first team action.
He missed the last four reserve games of the season when he had already told the club he would be leaving.
I don't think he was poorly managed at all. If you compare his career at that level to Welbeck, Cleverley, and tens of others they are almost identical.
Ferguson has a tried and tested way of introducing kids into the first team which has proven to be very successful.
The plain truth is that Pogba made demands of the club in terms of guaranteed first team games and an improved contract that the club and Fergie felt wasn't warranted.
Simple as that really...
Isn't there a ridiculous rule saying a player under the age of 18 can't sign a contract longer than 3 years?
I'm sorry but that only encourages youngsters with entitlement issues to make these kinds of demands of clubs.
I'm sorry but that only encourages youngsters with entitlement issues to make these kinds of demands of clubs.
I'm not arguing about the reason for why he left. People keep peddling this about him being poor at reserve level that season when he actually wasn't that bad. As I said, and you then repeated, poor performances at that level are allowed. Inconsistency is expected from young players, especially considering the circumstances and him being played out of position now and then. Whatever he was doing, he earnt his way into the first team squad for many games, so he cant have been as bad as some people are now making out.
I think some people are being slightly harsh on Pogba's attitude of "entitlement" as it's being called.
I won't say I completely disagree with you but you have to put yourself in the shoes of an 18 year old who clearly was better than our reserves who was obviously being fed the same lines by his agent.
Playing below your level is a very frustrating thing to have to do and not really being given many opportunities at a higher level can be very frustrating. I know this first hand (obviously from much lower standards of football).
My point is, I can understand Pogba's gripes (along with the push from his agent making his attitude even more understandable), but I also completely understand why Sir Alex was justified in handling everything the way he did as well.
I won't say I completely disagree with you but you have to put yourself in the shoes of an 18 year old who clearly was better than our reserves who was obviously being fed the same lines by his agent.
Playing below your level is a very frustrating thing to have to do and not really being given many opportunities at a higher level can be very frustrating. I know this first hand (obviously from much lower standards of football).
My point is, I can understand Pogba's gripes (along with the push from his agent making his attitude even more understandable), but I also completely understand why Sir Alex was justified in handling everything the way he did as well.
If you think you should be getting first team appearances based on your talent, without applying yourself in the reserves (possibly even seeing yourself as being too good to play at that level) or even playing beyond an OKish level when you are given a chance at first team football, then you are extremely immature and have an entitlement issue.
Poor attitudes are contagious within football clubs, if we let Pogba and Morrison dictate terms to us without putting the effort in what's to stop the next batch of youngsters pushing the limits as well?
Frankly, Pogba was a player with obvious technical ability, as well as being an incredible athlete but he hardly ever really influenced a game, seeming to want to pass responsibility to other players. If you think a young player playing within himself, doing the occasional brilliant thing but not applying himself fully is good enough to merit repeated chances at first team level just to keep him happy then it's your opinion and that is fine, but mine is that he doesn't deserve to be given more than a slow blooding into the first team squad.
Pogba didn't deserve to get more game time than he did, and that stupid rule limiting the number of years a player can sign for before their 18th birthday meant we didn't have the leverage to discipline him. It's just one of those things, it's a blow to lose a talent but we'll cope just fine without him.
Poor attitudes are contagious within football clubs, if we let Pogba and Morrison dictate terms to us without putting the effort in what's to stop the next batch of youngsters pushing the limits as well?
Frankly, Pogba was a player with obvious technical ability, as well as being an incredible athlete but he hardly ever really influenced a game, seeming to want to pass responsibility to other players. If you think a young player playing within himself, doing the occasional brilliant thing but not applying himself fully is good enough to merit repeated chances at first team level just to keep him happy then it's your opinion and that is fine, but mine is that he doesn't deserve to be given more than a slow blooding into the first team squad.
Pogba didn't deserve to get more game time than he did, and that stupid rule limiting the number of years a player can sign for before their 18th birthday meant we didn't have the leverage to discipline him. It's just one of those things, it's a blow to lose a talent but we'll cope just fine without him.
I may have gone slightly overboard with my comments, I shouldn't have stated my opinions as fact.
What I was implying was that I just didn't feel like he was trying hard enough in the matches I saw and he always seemed like that level was beneath him. I appreciate that he played in differs positions and he was in and out of the team. But he still didn't perform or at least try to perform to the levels you'd expect of an unproven 18/19 year old wanting first team appearances to perform. He wasn't trying to take games by the scruff of the neck and often looked (to me anyway) as if he was strolling through the matches. That's not to say that he played completely poorly or that he had no talent, he just didn't play like someone you'd want to take a gamble on throwing him into the first team mix.
And for me that's where the problem lies, he could have been trying a lot harder to impress.
What I was implying was that I just didn't feel like he was trying hard enough in the matches I saw and he always seemed like that level was beneath him. I appreciate that he played in differs positions and he was in and out of the team. But he still didn't perform or at least try to perform to the levels you'd expect of an unproven 18/19 year old wanting first team appearances to perform. He wasn't trying to take games by the scruff of the neck and often looked (to me anyway) as if he was strolling through the matches. That's not to say that he played completely poorly or that he had no talent, he just didn't play like someone you'd want to take a gamble on throwing him into the first team mix.
And for me that's where the problem lies, he could have been trying a lot harder to impress.
I'd agree with that....and he wasn't in/out of team...he played every week..
At the end of the day, when you take advice of an agent you've been with for 6 months or so over that of SAF then what left is there to say? I know people have gripes over the game time he's getting at Juventus but who's to say he would have been getting matches there last season? Had Pogba stayed he would have gone on the summer tour and proved to SAF why he should be in the first team, I have no doubts he would have been this year.
He was impatient and that was that. We need to just move on from it and get over it now, he was a great talent with a lot of potential, nothing's changed except the bed that he chose to lie in.
He was impatient and that was that. We need to just move on from it and get over it now, he was a great talent with a lot of potential, nothing's changed except the bed that he chose to lie in.
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