I think 'times' is too big a word. More like 'time'. More like 'Blackburn'.
Paul Pogba
- Thread starter dhstriker
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I think 'times' is too big a word. More like 'time'. More like 'Blackburn'.
Yes. Even Rafael was picked in CM instead of him. And some people wonder why he chose to leave.
Anderson is ridiculously overrated on here. Even when he's played well this season its only been offensively, doing little to no work when we didnt have the ball. He averages less than a tackle and just over half an interception per game this season. And we wonder why the combination of Anderson and Cleverley leads to opponents having so many shots at our goal...
Have got to agree here, as good as Ando is, I don't like him in a defensive role, he never played it pre United...
There were more times than that Cleverley, Anderson and Fletcher were out for large parts of the season and Scholes was retired for a period of time. The Blackburn game was the obvious one with Rafael and Park in centre mid but if your telling me Pogba couldn't have got some game time last season then I don't agree.
Juventus are always playing with 3 men in midfield and basically had no quality backup for Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo, so it's way easier for Pogba to get playing time compared to United - if one of those three isn't available or needs to rest, he's in. Also, I think it's easier for him to do well, because he's protected by 2 great midfielders all the time and has way more freedom to get involved in the attack. I really don't believe he could have a similar impact at United alongside Carrick or Cleverly with Kagawa or Rooney ahead of him and changing the system to fit Pogba in, doesn't make sense with the great attacking players available at United. It's a perfect fit for all parties, imo.
Its definitely a perfect fit for him, but Anderson and Park arent such good CMs that he shouldnt be getting a game like last season. And like I said Pogba is doing more off the ball than Anderson is, if anyone needs protecting its Anderson. Giacharini is another good cm option for Juventus, he's a full Italian international and Pogba has played more than him.
Yes. But do you think he would have performed at the same level over here in England, had he stayed? He wasn't there is physically, and Fergie was right in protecting him in that regard as he might have been slaughtered on the pitch by opposition players. Look how a fatal injury has turned out for Ramsey, Eduardo and Possebon
And I was talking about the 20 year old Cleverley. Even he would have shone there.
Same as above. Just because a more experienced player played in front of you in a match, doesn't gives the authority to a 18 year old. I don't care how Pogba turns out to be, great or not, but to give the reason that he left because Rafael started over him in CM is just nonsense. Sorry.
Well it pretty much did give him the authority as he let his contract run out and walked into the midfield of one of the biggest clubs in Europe.
We fecked up by not playing him more / giving him the wage he wanted at first without haggling. There were plenty of games where we could have given him game time.
It's hilarious how some people make out that It's somehow Pogba that has lost out by leaving us. We desperately need a midfielder, especially one of his quality and we let him go for free.
He didn't leave because of that one incident though, we were struggling with centre midfield all season and he barely even got a place on the bench. He thought he was ready for first team football and judging by his performances for Juventus he was right. He's young but reserve team football was a waste of time for him he needed first team football be it at United or elsewhere and he chose Juventus.
I think Pogba will go on to be a massive player in the coming years for both France and Juventus I think as a club we will regret him leaving.
Looks far ahead of anything I saw from Possebon who's first team appearances featured 15 passes backward and nothing else, or Ramsey who I never understood the hype about. Its not like Cleverley was very physical last season, he was doing as much dirty work as Anderson has done this season... Nothing. But at least with Cleverley its a natural progression, last season he was a luxury but this season he's putting in the tackles and interceptions you'd expect from a United player. Anderson has gone backwards instead. He did okay last season, but nothing this season.
20 year old Cleverley was in the championship. Serie A isnt one of the top leagues anymore, but its still a thousand times better than the championship where Dorrans is Zidane.
I couldn't agree more. HUGE mistake losing him.
Who cares? He was never going to be a regular in United midfield at 19. He wasn't ready to bide his time and can now find games in Juventus' midfield three. Good for him!
Some stay, some leave. We have in the past and will in the future, lose better players than him. We are too big a club to be shedding tears about Pogba leaving.
Some stay, some leave. We have in the past and will in the future, lose better players than him. We are too big a club to be shedding tears about Pogba leaving.
Anderson, overrated, on here
He'd have to be seriously shit for that to be true.
He definitely is. And to prove it, who have been United's best 15 best performers this season?
Except Juve have arguably a better midfield than us and considering he's playing for them, he'd definitely be good enough to play for us.
I think we've cocked this one up badly.
We didn't cock anything up.
We chose to play a 21 year old who had over 100 First Team games under his belt in a Premier League game ahead of an 18 year old who had yet to make his Premier League debut for us.
It's not even about ability, it's about temperment. Had he come in and had an awful game and we lost can you imagine the set back for a young lad? Ferguson knows how to bring though young players and he protects them. Which is why he brought Pogba on later in the games against Stoke, Atletic, Wolves and West Brom.
The reason Pogba left is down to himself, not United.
Pogba left as Fergie likes to play two in midfield - that's Carrick plus one more. Anderson, Scholes, Cleverley, Giggs,Fletch were all in front of him.
Its got as much to do with fergie playing 442 as it has to do with Pogba not being ready. Pogba is in a better position career wise so its worked out for him.
Its got as much to do with fergie playing 442 as it has to do with Pogba not being ready. Pogba is in a better position career wise so its worked out for him.
The other way to look at it is that Juve play incredibly narrow and have 3 or at times 4 CMs playing at one time, hence a lot less pressure on Pogba to play in that compared to a 2 man midfield in a 4-4-2.
I'm not taking any credit away from him, as I've heard that he outshone the rest of them in a couple of games doing everything from mopping up the dangers at the back to controlling the tempo and running the game himself, but him doing well in a strong and stocked up central midfield in a different, few may even say inferior, league doesn't really imply that he would have done well at United.
That 21-year old was a right back who had never played in midfield before. I know you like to defend our midfield with all these 'is an important member of the squad' but there's no justification for playing Rafael over Pogba under any circumstances whatsoever.
He was tapped up at a time when he just needed to wait one more season before he was challenging for a first team spot. It was bad timing for us and Juve caught us off guard. Juventus made him offer he couldn't refuse and he accepted it before we even had a chance to change his mind. In some ways Juventus were probably only too happy to go behind our backs and do this after we snatched a couple of promising young Italian players in ways that upset the Italian league. Unfortunately none of our Italians will ever be close to Pogba.
Why he wasn't sent out on loan is beyond me if we weren't going to play him before Christmas last year. Fergie obviously had to be loyal to Cleverley who would have been miles ahead of Pogba in development after a great season at Wigan. I think Pogba will be ranked among the top 3 central midfielders in the world in a few years and will be a much better player than Cleverley and Fergie probably dreamed of a Pogba Cleverley partnership in the future in a 2 man midfield. Maybe Pogba wanted to play higher up the pitch than Fergie wanted him to play.
Either way......You win some, you lose some....We lost out bigtime with Pogba but.....maybe Cleverley or Powell or Tunnicliffe will become world class......or maybe we will sign another central midfielder that one day could be among the best in the world....such as a Victor Fischer or maybe a Wanyama...Or even better some up and coming star from the Juventus youth team on a free!!
Cleverley though hasn't done much wrong to suggest he will be replaced and Powell and Tunnicliffe will be pushing next season and Carrick has years left in him! Fergie always gets it right even after players leave that he would have wanted to stay.
Why he wasn't sent out on loan is beyond me if we weren't going to play him before Christmas last year. Fergie obviously had to be loyal to Cleverley who would have been miles ahead of Pogba in development after a great season at Wigan. I think Pogba will be ranked among the top 3 central midfielders in the world in a few years and will be a much better player than Cleverley and Fergie probably dreamed of a Pogba Cleverley partnership in the future in a 2 man midfield. Maybe Pogba wanted to play higher up the pitch than Fergie wanted him to play.
Either way......You win some, you lose some....We lost out bigtime with Pogba but.....maybe Cleverley or Powell or Tunnicliffe will become world class......or maybe we will sign another central midfielder that one day could be among the best in the world....such as a Victor Fischer or maybe a Wanyama...Or even better some up and coming star from the Juventus youth team on a free!!
Cleverley though hasn't done much wrong to suggest he will be replaced and Powell and Tunnicliffe will be pushing next season and Carrick has years left in him! Fergie always gets it right even after players leave that he would have wanted to stay.
However I try to think of it, I cannot see any logic in playing Rafael in CM when Pogba was available.It made and still makes no sense to me
He's gone, him and his agent made their choices, United made its choice. That's football.
Teams do it all the time
Everton would probably play Phil Neville in midfield instead of Barkely due having way more match experience
Chelsea have played David Luiz in midfield ahead of young promising players for the same reason.
Redknapp used to play Ledley King as a DM as maybe certain kids coming through weren't ready.
I remember it worked a treat for Fergie when he had only John O'Shea and Ryan Giggs available as our central midfield pairing years ago for many weeks and we still won the league that year and beat an impressive Chelsea team to the title if I can remember!
Pogba has looked incredible for Juventus this year but.....he probably would not have been ready to put in those kinds of performances at the start of last season. Its amazing what a year can do for a young players development as the likes of Rafael and Cleverley and Welbeck have proved.
There will be players as good as Pogba exploding on the scene from out of nowhere over the next year if Fergie feels a need to sign someone else. Ross Barkely and Victor Fischer will be 2 players making huge impacts on the world stage soon!
Thank goodness we don't have to put up with that hairdo, though!
Nothing wrong with ego when you're a good player.
No, we didn't win the league that season.
Even if we kept him I'm sure he would of just been a cnut further down the line anyway, we don't want players like that.
We've had plenty of cnuts in the past and will do in the future.
As long as they are good at kicking the ball I doubt SAF cares.
It still doesn't make the decision to start Rafael in that game ahead of him more understandable to me.I'm not saying Pogba was right to leave on that basis, just talking about that single decision.A really weird one IMHO because it was Rafael who was used
Why would any player be patient if he thinks he is good enough to play at a top club, even at a young age? He moved to a big team who were the best in their league, got more money and far more games. No brainer of a decision really.
I think it's a little bit too early to call this a good or bad decision. Pique didn't look like a big loss when he left, and to be honest I don't know if he's better than Rio/Vidic counting the past 5 years. It feels like he's only doing the sweet part of the defending job, a role that Rio is world leading in. I don't know why the feck i'm talking about this now.
Doesnt seem to have much of the United personality tbh. Add that dog of an agent to the mix and i feel we've actually done well here.
Anyone know if he is going to play in their cup game tonight?
I think I might look for a stream if he does.
I think I might look for a stream if he does.
He's starting. He's also had a haircut.
And so it starts
@tancredipalmeri: The Raiola virus has been injected in Juventus. Raiola on Pogba: "Pogba is not on sale. He will stay at Juventus. At least until July"
@tancredipalmeri: The Raiola virus has been injected in Juventus. Raiola on Pogba: "Pogba is not on sale. He will stay at Juventus. At least until July"
It started a while back actually when he reached training late twice, and then was fined. Raiola openly slammed Conte in the media.
Raiola, world class pimp. Used to sell pizza.
I imagine Raiola's sales pitch to Pogba was a lot like Les Grossman's pitch to Matthew McConaughey in Tropic Thunder.
You play ball, we play ball. I know you want the goodies.
G5, playa.
You play ball, we play ball. I know you want the goodies.
G5, playa.
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