Paul Pogba

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Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Germany?

Christ! Dortmund fecked City and Madrid. Bayern are possibly the best team in Europe. Germany have more teams in the CL knock out stages than us too. Italy have the same amount.

I think that someone is being a little jingoistic here.
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I am not even English. :lol:

And I said Germany was probably stronger than Serie A or equal.

Lastly, quality of league depends on 20 teams, not just the top 2/3 otherwise SPL has been a decent league for the past 2 decades. And Portugal was the best league when porto won the CL.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Germany?

Christ! Dortmund fecked City and Madrid. Bayern are possibly the best team in Europe. Germany have more teams in the CL knock out stages than us too. Italy have the same amount.

I think that someone is being a little jingoistic here.
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Indeed. Bundesliga has been on the rise, it's fair to say that Bayern and Dortmund are amongst the best teams in Europe while teams like Leverkusen and Schalke are also pretty solid. They have great attendances and atmosphere too, it's a good league.
 
Cevno said:
Lastly, quality of league depends on 20 teams, not just the top 2/3 otherwise SPL has been a decent league for the past 2 decades. And Portugal was the best league when porto won the CL.
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?

That is a facile argument, if I ever saw one. You keep your Ox and I will pitch in with the Pog. Let us confer further on this matter in a couple of years.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
?

That is a facile argument, if I ever saw one. You keep your Ox and I will pitch in with the Pog. Let us confer further on this matter in a couple of years.
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And i thought we were talking about right now ? Shifting the goalposts aren't we now ?
 
And how is the argument facile ? Does Pogba face Juventus everytime he plays ?

Plus Paceme made a good point about intensity too. Sahin was the latest one who struggled to adapt. While Tosic and Diouf straight up dominated in Germany, while they were even struggling at Blackburn level here.

Top teams being strong is one thing. Competitive quality for each player being strong is another. Germany has reaching among the top on one scale, while going towards the top on the latter too.

Italy except for Juve and Fiorentina maybe are on downward spiral in terms of both.
 
Different types of midfielders VW but Pogba seems to have the talent to be one of the best, if not the best, midfielders in the world if he reaches the ceiling that he's capable of.
 
Cevno said:
And how is the argument facile ? Does Pogba face Juventus everytime he plays ?

Plus Paceme made a good point about intensity too. Sahin was the latest one who struggled to adapt. While Tosic and Diouf straight up dominated in Germany.
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Tosic and Diouf straight up dominated in Germany, what planet exactly are you living on? Tosic was there, what, three years ago? He had a good 6 month loan at a relegation candidate club! He is hardly a relevant talking point. Diouf is doing well over there but he is not 'dominating' the league, is Michu, formerly a lower level Spanish player, 'dominating' the Premier League?

There are so many variables that could of affected Sahin's failure in Spain and England, or, for that matter, any player moving abroad: age; personal adaptability; the various personal psychological factors that affect form; the list goes on. It really is a waste of time to use him, or any small group of random players as a measuring stick of quality for the leagues.

It is much more pertinent to look at the European performances of a nations clubs at a given time. After all, European performance is one of the fundamental measures of a top level teams success, a fundamental measure of success in the sport in general and a measure that can be cast Europe wide on a season by season basis.

Your previous argument was facile because you claimed that the SPL of the past 20 years, or the Portuguese league of 2004 is in someway analogous to the German League today, anyone with a basic knowledge of football knows that it is a tenuous analogy, at the very best.
 
He'll probably be one of those mercenary type players who hop clubs every 2/3 years after having bust ups here and there, but are pretty good players.

Most of Raiola's main clients are like that too different degrees. We probably lost out on a good fee, but he wouldn't have lasted with SAF for a long while anyway.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Tosic and Diouf straight up dominated in Germany, what planet exactly are you living on? Tosic was there, what, three years ago? He had a good 6 month loan at a relegation candidate club! He is hardly a relevant talking point. Diouf is doing well over there but he is not 'dominating' the league, is Michu, formerly a lower level Spanish player, 'dominating' the Premier League?

There are so many variables that could of affected Sahin's failure in Spain and England, or, for that matter, any player moving abroad: age; personal adaptability; the various personal psychological factors that affect form; the list goes on. It really is a waste of time to use him, or any small group of random players as a measuring stick of quality for the leagues.

It is much more pertinent to look at the European performances of a nations clubs at a given time. After all, European performance, is one of the fundamental measure of a teams success, a fundamental measure of success in the sport and a measure that can be cast Europe wide.

Your previous argument was facile because you claimed that the SPL of the past 20 years, or the Portuguese league of 2004 is in someway analogous to the German League today, anyone with a basic knowledge of football knows that it is a tenuous analogy, at the very best.
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Huh, you are talking on a completely different tangent and twisting what i said.

I have basically covered, what i had to say so don't want to go on in odd circles again. But the point still stands that Pogba doesn't have to face Juventus each week. He has to face the other 20 teams. Not that tough really.

On the other hand he does get the likes of Vidal, Giacherrini and Marchisio who are good to quality players in that team to do the leg work.
 
Cevno said:
Huh, you are talking on a completely different tangent and twisting what i said.

I have basically covered, what i had to say so don't want to go on in odd circles again. But the point still stands that Pogba doesn't have to face Juventus each week. He has to face the other 20 teams. Not that tough really.

On the other hand he does get the likes of Vidal, Giacherrini and Marchisio who are good to quality players in that team to do the leg work.
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The Italian league isn't as good as the EPL, in terms of strength of depth. However, I do not believe the disparity in quality to be as great as you do. I am astounded that you believe that the bloody Ox is as good as Pogba.
 
KM said:
Both the parties are at fault IMO, us for not letting his contract go in the final year and then obviously when he got Raiola we obviously had no chance of keeping him.
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We played a cnutish move in saying he had not option but to stay as we thought we had an option of extending. Unfortunately it was an illegal clause and we payed the price for playing that card.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
pogba is going to be better than clevz isn't he :(
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Completely different types of midfielder, almost incomparable.

Either way, he certainly isn't yet - Pogba has the luxury of dallying about without much responsibility for 90 minutes in a dense, world-class midfield until he gets the chance to show his quality, and for a team who are far and away the best in their league. Cleverley is generally doing all the hard work in a significantly less world-class midfield, running himself absolutely ragged, and for a team who have to fight for every single point in what is still just about the most competitive league in the world.

Good for 19 though. He'll go on to do amazing things. But I reckon we might see Cleverley do that too, in his own way.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I am astounded that you believe that the bloody Ox is as good as Pogba.
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Bloody hell, i mentioned 7/8 names and you are clinging onto one and then shifting goalposts to say we'll see after 2 years when we were talking about right now.

Pogba has big potential, but right now he isn't as great as you are making him out to be. If i had to play a game against Top quality opposition tomorrow, i would take most of the names i mentioned ahead of him.

In terms of how i see them 3 years from now, Pogba i can see being ahead of some unless he continues being a primadona with attitude problems. Right now he is not rounded enough despite moments of class. Simple enough now ?
 
Pogba/Cleverley is like the Welbeck/Hernandez situation. At least when Pogba was at United, that is. With both pairs of players, one has the attributes the other one lacks that would make them absolutely top drawer and vice versa.

Pogba would seriously become one incredible midfielder if he had Cleverley's willingness to learn the basics of movement as a midfielder. His desire to work and make an impact on a football match, too. Pogba has all the ability in the world and would be one of the very best out there already if he had these attributes. It could go either way with him, though - difficulty to say having not seen him at Juventus. There really was a lot of not-arsedness and 'I'm too good for this shit' eminating from Pogba when he played a lot of the time for our reserves. Come to the conclusion looking back that such poor off the ball movement and positional play couldn't have just been inexperience.
 
Who does everyone blame for his departure?

Did he want too much too soon?

Should we have allowed that?

I have watched him 3 times now playing for Juve and each time he looks quality. But I think it was just one of those things, even though he looks right now a player that would walk into our midfield.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Who does everyone blame for his departure?

Did he want too much too soon?

Should we have allowed that?

I have watched him 3 times now playing for Juve and each time he looks quality. But I think it was just one of those things, even though he looks right now a player that would walk into our midfield.
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No one, really. Basically what you said. At the time, he wasn't good enough for us to be willing to start him just because he wanted to start (although there were one or two isolated instances where I think Fergie could have given him a chance, the infamous Rafael-Park midfield being a prime example). He also wasn't yet worth more than the perfectly reasonable amount of money we were paying him.

That said, Juventus had more of a space for him, and were justified in offering more money and playing time than us. And Pogba was justified in taking it, and he's been vindicated in that decision.

Now, he'd get into our team quite a bit, and he's worth the money. But we simply couldn't have known that. And he still isn't good enough to displace Carrick/Cleverley in the important games anyway.
 
Fergie properly fecked up here.

Anyone who ever watched him regularly in the reserves knew he was a class above.

Starting Park in CM ahead of him was just madness. Park can barely make the team at QPR FFS while Pogba, well, we've seen what he can do.

The most depressing thing? He's exactly the type of midfielder we need.
 
Fergie didn't feck up, the move to Juve was engineered before last season.
 
Is his agent Mino Raiola? If so I can perfectly well understand he is not at the club anymore, I can guarantee that any player represented by him won't last long under Sir Alex.
 
Such a shame everybody knew he would be a class player. Just like Pique and Rossi players are leaving our reserves to go straight into the starting 11 of top European clubs. We should have done everything to keep Pogba (including giving him more starts) it's a position we have been light in for years and his quality was obvious for all to see.
 
So we should have allowed ourselves to be blackmailed into giving him more playing time?

I say feck Pogba. We've lost far better players and not come of too badly
 
Lester Freamon said:
Is his agent Mino Raiola? If so I can perfectly well understand he is not at the club anymore, I can guarantee that any player represented by him won't last long under Sir Alex.
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His agent is Raiola.
 
Castia said:
Such a shame everybody knew he would be a class player. Just like Pique and Rossi players are leaving our reserves to go straight into the starting 11 of top European clubs. We should have done everything to keep Pogba (including giving him more starts) it's a position we have been light in for years and his quality was obvious for all to see.
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He is right now not a better player than Anderson or Cleverley and neither does he play the sort of game to fill in for Carrick. He would have struggled to get regular playing time had he stayed here so the move worked out pretty well for him. We've bought a similar player in Powell who also offers goal threat from midfield though his passing is not quite comparable to Pogba's yet. Powell also seems a more level headed lad and anyone who has Raiola as an agent is like a ticking time bomb.

Pogba is quite a talent and will score goals regularly specially with shooting being the biggest asset of his game but if we are to cry about missing out on him every time he scores we'll soon end up as depressed as scousers.

It's time we've moved on specially given how Cleverley and Anderson have taken their chances this season.
 
The outcry is mind-boggling to me.

Sure...he has continued his old reserves trait of scoring from 85 yards out on a regular basis but in all honesty, is the boy anyway good enough to be the man beside Carrick in a two-man midfield right now?

He wanted game time at United and thought he was good enough to merit it. At this moment, Clev and Anderson are much better players and CAN operate in that two man midfield. Twud obviously be great to have him here but he is a Juventus player now. Its as simple as that. Continential football was always gonna be thenecessary move for him to develop his senior game. He just is not ready/good enough to spearhead a PL midfield now....IMHO of course.
 
Nate Dogg said:
We'll buy him back for £30m....that is the way we do things at Utd!!
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Tbh there isn't much out there in the middle at the moment with that kind of level/potential. If we spent big money to re-sign him in a year or so after he's established himself I'd take that. Rather that than spending it on some dude inevitably not as good as him.
 
His first goal was a top class strike but its time some fans got over him leaving the club.

He never wanted to stay and was getting too big for his boots not helped by his agent who was stirring things up.

We have lost much much bigger players in the past and got over it.
 
Brightonian said:
That said, Juventus had more of a space for him, and were justified in offering more money and playing time than us. And Pogba was justified in taking it, and he's been vindicated in that decision.
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Most people on here were slagging him off for going to Juve saying he would not get a game due to the amount of midfielders they already had.

Regardless, Pogba clearly made the right decision signing for Juve. He is getting far more chances at Juve than he was getting with us last season.

I think it's outrageous that we didn't do absolutely everything to keep him. He will be a top quality player.
 
Fergies Gum said:
His first goal was a top class strike but its time some fans got over him leaving the club.

He never wanted to stay and was getting too big for his boots not helped by his agent who was stirring things up.

We have lost much much bigger players in the past and got over it.
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Who said he never wanted to stay? Maybe he just wanted to be paid what he was worth and to play in a few more games. He got exactly that at Juve. He was not after 50k a week. He was still looking for a nominal fee compared to his actual quality.
 
We should have offered him a guarenteed starting place and 50 grand a week!!!

LOL DISGRACE!!

SAF GETTING OLD LOLOLOLOL!
cnuts
 
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