Paul Pogba

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Forevergiggs said:
Fergie must go to bed crying like a little bitch that he lost a 19-year old player.

Jones, DeGea, Smalling, Rafael, Welbeck, Cleverley must be touching 40 as Fergie doesn't give young players a chance any longer. 18 year old Powell coming in and scoring against Wigan, making the bench in 5 of the 11 we have played so far must be a sign that Fergie has lost his marbles when it comes to youth.

Freaking stubborn old fart!
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He is getting senile.

Ha, I knew it.

I mean how unfair would it be that he still gets everything right with 70 while I at 32 already forget at least half of the things I should be remembering.

Finally some justice for my brain, or whatever.

Screw you scumbag brain. :mad:
 
Freak said:
Seriously, there was no way Pogba was going to make it here if he wasn't going to accept a reserve role for a couple of years more. I mean Fergie still insists on playing a 37 year old as a starter almost every week when we have a promising England International, and a dynamic pie-eating Brazilian waiting in the ranks.
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not sure if serious

don't care - history. Bet he doesn't turn out to be what he's cracked up to be.

This young fella from Crewe looks at least as good
 
Ok this doesn't really have anything to do with Pogba or United generally, I just thought I'd point something out.
Last year on FIFA he was one of our young players that I really wanted to make it, but sadly was complete and utter crap in the game, and he'd only go up to around 72-74 if you give him all the playing time in the world while in good form, that was his "hard cap".
Now however, one bitchy transfer saga later and suddenly he's already a 72 overall with potential to go up to 88. What?
 
If SAF really wanted him, he would have found a way to convince the lad but i don't think SAF was convinced by him really. I think a combination or his agent and Juve interest together with a few unfortunate weeks where he would have probably gotten game time but did not due to our bad form, made his mind up for him. Oh and that fecking bellend Veira.

he was however right to leave, its SAF's blindspot so he would have never gotten a look-in anyway.
 
Joemo said:
Of course it does. It means that the risk factor of dropped points is much higher and that Ferguson will be much more cautious and considered about his team selection. "Price is relative to what a club will play" - now that's total bullshit.
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Risk factor of dropped points....so what about preferring a tiny Brazilian full-back and a dreadful Park in midfield to an available Pogba? Or playing central defenders and forwards in midfield leaving it horribly disjointed. Not sure why the statement is bullshit, you plucked a figure out of thin air...I said it's relative to what a club will pay. That figure could have been anything and there is actually no real relevant meaning in this when applied to the Pogba situation. Doesn't matter how much money they paid for their strikers.

Joemo said:
He was put in the matchday squads a lot, and when the time was right (ie. Stoke) he got a cameo appearance to try and impress. Let's not forget that we crashed out to Crystal Palace with a team that was easily good enough to beat them. I seem to remember Pogba not doing a great deal, maybe if they had progressed in the Carling Cup he would have had more opportunities to stake a claim for the first squad.
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A bit harsh to use the Palace game as a basis to suggest why his chances were limited. The guy needed to be playing regular games for the first team to improve and show his worth, not thrown in with a bunch of reserves and fringe first-teamers.

Joemo said:
Infact taking it to a European scale, Muniain is set to make his 150th Bilbao appearance at just 19, and as a result he's one of the most sought after young players in the world. However, once again it applies, Bilbao have much different objectives to United, and can afford to relax and play the youth.
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Muniain is a special talent though....he was good enough to play regularly at 17 so there is no point in holding him back.

Joemo said:
Bringing a 37 year old of the calibre of Scholes out of retirement is not a backwards step, infact it was Scholes who decided he had retired too early and could still compete. It'd be utterly moronic to turn down a player of the class of Scholes, regardless of how promising your youth players are. Tell me, had we won the title, would you have classed Scholes' return as a masterstroke by Ferguson?
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Well it was a backward step purely in the sense that the club looked to the past rather than the future....to help the present. As much as I admire Scholes he should not be starting games for United at nearly 38 years of age. I'm not suggesting Ferguson should have turned him down, but it's clear from the amount of starts he made last season that he was desperate for Scholes to return. And in answer to your question no...I would never believe for a second it was a "masterstroke." It was a mutually beneficial agreement between two old allies that required little persuading.
 
Forevergiggs said:
Fergie must go to bed crying like a little bitch that he lost a 19-year old player.

Jones, DeGea, Smalling, Rafael, Welbeck, Cleverley must be touching 40 as Fergie doesn't give young players a chance any longer. 18 year old Powell coming in and scoring against Wigan, making the bench in 5 of the 11 we have played so far must be a sign that Fergie has lost his marbles when it comes to youth.

Freaking stubborn old fart!
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Half of those you listed were bought "premade" in that they already had experience and already had games under their belt.

We're talking about a player who we trained ourselves and developed, and someone who was ready to be tried out. As others have mentioned, Fergie usually gives young players a lot of opportunities. With Ravel and Pogba, that didn't happen, and at least with Pogba, we really missed out on someone who is now impacting the reigning Serie A champions in a position we are sorely lacking ourselves.

Fergie tinged glasses on or not, it was a major mishap on our end which will be costly because now we'll have to buy a replacement. Eventually.
 
davisjw said:
Half of those you listed were bought "premade" in that they already had experience and already had games under their belt.

We're talking about a player who we trained ourselves and developed, and someone who was ready to be tried out. As others have mentioned, Fergie usually gives young players a lot of opportunities. With Ravel and Pogba, that didn't happen, and at least with Pogba, we really missed out on someone who is now impacting the reigning Serie A champions in a position we are sorely lacking ourselves.

Fergie tinged glasses on or not, it was a major mishap on our end which will be costly because now we'll have to buy a replacement. Eventually.
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Bollocks. We can just keep buying forwards and all will be well.
 
Bloxy said:
If SAF really wanted him, he would have found a way to convince the lad but i don't think SAF was convinced by him really. I think a combination or his agent and Juve interest together with a few unfortunate weeks where he would have probably gotten game time but did not due to our bad form, made his mind up for him. Oh and that fecking bellend Veira.

he was however right to leave, its SAF's blindspot so he would have never gotten a look-in anyway.
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Just because SAF wants a player to stay doesn't mean the player wants to stay.
 
Ferguson has said on more than one occassion that Pogba was a Juve player long before his contract came to an end. It looks pretty clear to me that he was tapped up, agreed to go elsewhere and Fergie knew what was going on. Why would he play a kid to give him experience so some other club benefit? There were murmurings about this kid moving for a full season and a half before he actually did. The kid wanted away, we tried to convince him and he fecked us off. Why are we now blaming Ferguson? Because Pogba says promises to him were broken? Yeah, players leaving clubs never try to blame the move on the club they've just left, do they?
 
The Neviller said:
Ferguson has said on more than one occassion that Pogba was a Juve player long before his contract came to an end. It looks pretty clear to me that he was tapped up, agreed to go elsewhere and Fergie knew what was going on. Why would he play a kid to give him experience so some other club benefit? There were murmurings about this kid moving for a full season and a half before he actually did. The kid wanted away, we tried to convince him and he fecked us off. Why are we now blaming Ferguson? Because Pogba says promises to him were broken? Yeah, players leaving clubs never try to blame the move on the club they've just left, do they?
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Yeah and players never tell the truth do they? Why would Pogba try to keep the united fans sweet by lying? It has no relevance to him anymore.
 
People are saying he should have played because it was our worst midfield in years. Sorry but thats possibly why he didnt play. Fergie could not afford to take out Carrick or Scholes at all, they were desperately needed. People forget all the great work Carrick and Scholes did for us last season, if it wasn't for those two, we would have lost the league by at least 8 points. We simply couldn't afford to risk bringing Pogba in, we needed established, experienced class and thats exactly what we got from Carrick and Scholes.
 
I was at OT when he came off the bench vs Stoke and he was almost unplayable... and there was a real buzz around OT for the lad. A lot of fans were very excited about him, I could feel the excitement, it was similar to when Ronaldo played his first few games for us. A real shame he left, but sorry... he stropped when his team was in the tightest EVER Premier League title race. I don't blame Fergie one bit for doing it his way.
 
Cina said:
Wtf that's bullcrap you should totally write a letter to EA!!!!!
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While I appreciate your sarcasm I did mention it's not really "important" but it's something I wanted to point out. How can leaving United turn you into a world beater?
And how and why exactly does off pitch drama make somebody a better player? Happened with Hazard as well.
 
pocco said:
Yeah and players never tell the truth do they? Why would Pogba try to keep the united fans sweet by lying? It has no relevance to him anymore.
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If you choose to take the word of Pogba on the matter over Fergie then that's your call. We'll just have to differ there I'm afraid. You're right, he has no reason to keep United fans sweet. He does have reason to keep him and his agent as far from looking like troublemaking cnuts as possible though.

Fergie seems to reckon his head was turned long ago, all the rumours months before the move would seem to back that up. That'll do for me. None of us really know the full circumstances, and because of that I'll choose to not slate Fergusons handling of the thing, simply because I haven't got a fecking clue how he handled it. By the same notion, I'm not slating Pogba either.
 
Jonno said:
People are saying he should have played because it was our worst midfield in years. Sorry but thats possibly why he didnt play. Fergie could not afford to take out Carrick or Scholes at all, they were desperately needed. People forget all the great work Carrick and Scholes did for us last season, if it wasn't for those two, we would have lost the league by at least 8 points. We simply couldn't afford to risk bringing Pogba in, we needed established, experienced class and thats exactly what we got from Carrick and Scholes.
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There were also times when the likes of Giggs, Park, Rafael and Jones were all selected to play as a CM with Pogba either sitting on the bench or not even making it on the bench at all.

There's two sides to every story, and while I understand why Fergie chose not to rely on him, he still should've been given more chances in my opinion. It's one thing if he chooses not to play Pogba when we've got a real tough game on our hands, and/or if the likes of Carrick and Scholes are playing, it's totally different scenario when Fergie has "one of those games" where the team selection is just bonkers, and you can't find one justifiable reason as to why he chose not to play him.

Not to mention SAF himself said we'll lose him if he doesn't play him, and although I could've understood him not getting a look in if our players were fit, I simply could not and cannot understand why not give him minutes, but rather play several players out of position (which let's be honest, hasn't worked out that well last year).
 
OGkush said:
There were also times when the likes of Giggs, Park, Rafael and Jones were all selected to play as a CM with Pogba either sitting on the bench or not even making it on the bench at all.

There's two sides to every story, and while I understand why Fergie chose not to rely on him, he still should've been given more chances in my opinion. It's one thing if he chooses not to play Pogba when we've got a real tough game on our hands, and/or if the likes of Carrick and Scholes are playing, it's totally different scenario when Fergie has "one of those games" where the team selection is just bonkers, and you can't find one justifiable reason as to why he chose not to play him.

Not to mention SAF himself said we'll lose him if he doesn't play him, and although I could've understood him not getting a look in if our players were fit, I simply could not and cannot understand why not give him minutes, but rather play several players out of position (which let's be honest, hasn't worked out that well last year).
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Surely it was one of the things that made him decide to leave.
 
We don't really know what happened behind the curtains. Perhaps Pogba had indicated his desire to leave very early and Ferguson wouldn't have played a player who wouldn't be here in a few months. Then again it looked like there was hope until March/April because that's when he got 20 minutes on the pitch against Stoke and West Brom.

Rafael didn't play in midfield. It was one experiment, against Blackburn, which ended up in a disaster and was never repeated.
 
Sarni said:
We don't really know what happened behind the curtains. Perhaps Pogba had indicated his desire to leave very early and Ferguson wouldn't have played a player who wouldn't be here in a few months. Then again it looked like there was hope until March/April because that's when he got 20 minutes on the pitch against Stoke and West Brom.

Rafael didn't play in midfield. It was one experiment, against Blackburn, which ended up in a disaster and was never repeated.
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Worth pointing out that Pogba rumors of a Juve deal started even before January(the match in which Rafa-Park played in midfield). It started just after Raiola was appointed as his agent.

Fergie is to blame, but people are seriously underrating the influence of Raiola. Nedved who is now a board member at Juventus also has Raiola.
 
If Fergie didn't rate him, he would not have gone public about the contract situation at all. People who are blaming SAF for 'letting him go' or not giving him a chance are sadly, utter and complete retards. Pogba was let go not for footballing reasons, but politics. Which of course involves economics.
 
Forevergiggs said:
Is it necessary to blame someone?
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Not necessarily blame, but more like find out the reasons behind this.
I'm aware Pogba's alleged reason is playing time, but that doesn't make sense since he's facing tougher competition for places in Juve and doesn't look any more likely to feature in 1st team games than he did at United.
I'm not saying this is "Fergie's fault", and even if it is it still won't change the way I feel about that legend of a man, however if I was to point a finger regarding this saga it would have to be Fergie.
You can blame agents all you want, but nowadays players like Valencia who don't have agents are incredibily rare and it is to be expected that you have to be dealing with agents. I know Raiola's a cnut, but it's not like "forcing" a move was his only intented option. We don't know what exactly went on behind the scenes, but I think it's clear it could've been handled in a better way.
 
anything about now said:
If Fergie didn't rate him, he would not have gone public about the contract situation at all. People who are blaming SAF for 'letting him go' or not giving him a chance are sadly, utter and complete retards. Pogba was let go not for footballing reasons, but politics. Which of course involves economics.
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Aye. When Morrison left Fergie came out in a presser and said he wanted to keep Pogba because he was United quality (paraphrasing).
 
OGkush said:
Not necessarily blame, but more like find out the reasons behind this.
I'm aware Pogba's alleged reason is playing time, but that doesn't make sense since he's facing tougher competition for places in Juve and doesn't look any more likely to feature in 1st team games than he did at United.
I'm not saying this is "Fergie's fault", and even if it is it still won't change the way I feel about that legend of a man, however if I was to point a finger regarding this saga it would have to be Fergie.
You can blame agents all you want, but nowadays players like Valencia who don't have agents are incredibily rare and it is to be expected that you have to be dealing with agents. I know Raiola's a cnut, but it's not like "forcing" a move was his only intented option. We don't know what exactly went on behind the scenes, but I think it's clear it could've been handled in a better way.
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If we don't know what happened behind the scenes then how is it clear that it could have been handled better? About all we can do is speculate that certain things happened then suggest perhaps things could have been handled differently.
 
OGkush said:
There were also times when the likes of Giggs, Park, Rafael and Jones were all selected to play as a CM with Pogba either sitting on the bench or not even making it on the bench at all.
There's two sides to every story, and while I understand why Fergie chose not to rely on him, he still should've been given more chances in my opinion. It's one thing if he chooses not to play Pogba when we've got a real tough game on our hands, and/or if the likes of Carrick and Scholes are playing, it's totally different scenario when Fergie has "one of those games" where the team selection is just bonkers, and you can't find one justifiable reason as to why he chose not to play him.

Not to mention SAF himself said we'll lose him if he doesn't play him, and although I could've understood him not getting a look in if our players were fit, I simply could not and cannot understand why not give him minutes, but rather play several players out of position (which let's be honest, hasn't worked out that well last year).
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I think he just trusted his experienced players over a very raw talent that is Paul Pogba. Rafael may not be a CM but he has pace and aggression aswell as having played a lot of games for United last season, so he was clearly hoping that Rafael could just pull off a good performance in the middle. But you're right that Pogba should well have been used in that instance.
 
Last season was just too tight for Fergie to throw Pogba in at the deep end. In the days of Beckham and Scholes coming through we were often miles ahead of everyone else and could afford to take a chance on a young player or two.
I think with Viera also advising the boy...a man Pogba probably idololized as a kid then that was never going to help.
And playing Rafael and Park instead of Pogba that day probably was the correct decision given that Park and Rafael both had tons of first team experience. Pogba's time to get minutes with us was just around the corner and he knew that so its total BS that he wasn't getting games.
In saying all that maybe Fergie could have given him more minutes but Pogba has shown that he is happy to walk all over a club if it suits him. He screwed over La Harve and I guess we are getting a little bit of Karma back since we sort of screwed them over and now it has come back on us a bit with him screwing us over.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Juve put a million quid tax free into a swiss bank account for him too as a signing-on gift. Juve have a history of major corruption
 
Ringo 07 said:
Last season was just too tight for Fergie to throw Pogba in at the deep end. In the days of Beckham and Scholes coming through we were often miles ahead of everyone else and could afford to take a chance on a young player or two.
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Well Becks and Scholes were also a bit older than Pogba when they were given a chance by Fergie.

I'm not saying Fergie is to blame here, but some of the posters here have convinced themselves that Pogba left due to the Rafael/Park match and lack of opportunities when Scholes came out of retirement, however the Pogba/Juventus rumors started way before that.
 
SAF still picks Scholes and Giggs in CM in many games over the in-form Anderson and often Cleverley too. I reckon Pogba thought he'd be waiting too long.
 
I just think he is a lad who can get his head turned pretty easily. Turned to join Man United, and turned to join Juventus. Although Italian football has no money in it, he will still be getting paid a lot more now than what he did at United as a young fringe player.
 
Jonno said:
People are saying he should have played because it was our worst midfield in years. Sorry but thats possibly why he didnt play. Fergie could not afford to take out Carrick or Scholes at all, they were desperately needed. People forget all the great work Carrick and Scholes did for us last season, if it wasn't for those two, we would have lost the league by at least 8 points. We simply couldn't afford to risk bringing Pogba in, we needed established, experienced class and thats exactly what we got from Carrick and Scholes.
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Have you possibly and conveniently forgotten the half a season Scholes was away in retirement? How about the fact that both our starting midfielders that season were both out for a long time with injury? Rafael in central midfield. Phil Jones the attacking midfielder...

The manager didnt really seem to have a lot of faith in him. Sometimes players move on and show what you missed out on.

Isco is another example, clearly a great talent but Emery didnt pick him much if at all for Valencia. A season on and most clubs in europe would want him
 
Maybe the manager knew more than we did. In fairness, the greatest manager ever, along with his staff spent all of last season watching Pogba in training and in reserve matches, and they decided he wasn't good enough to play at that time. I will always trust that professional and world class judgment. We don't know the fundimental issues surrounding Pogba and why he was overlooked for Jones and Rafael.
 
the main problem is that pogba is not patient enough to wait for his chance. maybe he believe he is too good not to be playing more despite of his young age. remember fergei rarely gave a young central midfielder much time on the pitch. even someone like scholes wasn't really a first team regular until he was something like 21 or 22.

the most frustrating thing is that most of us know deep inside that this boy is going to be a star.
 
KM said:
Bullshit. Besides you've evaluated him after two subs appearances, well done.
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There isn't exactly much with which to evaluate Powell like you say, but I think it's fair to say that based on Powell's limited opportunities and his reserve matches, Pogba looks a more talented player. That's not to say he is or isn't, but that's my impression too given his performances to date. Powell's main strength at this moment looks to be his shooting from range, which is something Pogba was also excellent at. Pogba is definitely more skilful from what I've seen so far, better in possession, more composed and has a better range of passing.

Again though, these are only first impressions. Maybe when we see more of Powell he'll show more of what he has in his locker. So far, there have been signs of his quality, but he's not shown anything yet to make me think he's in Pogba's league. He was good the other day though, and scored a nice header to boot.
 
Jonno said:
I just think he is a lad who can get his head turned pretty easily. Turned to join Man United, and turned to join Juventus. Although Italian football has no money in it, he will still be getting paid a lot more now than what he did at United as a young fringe player.
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I don't know about his wages over there for certain but he's rumoured to be on around £20k a week. Whilst it is certainly more than he earned at United as a 17 or 18-year old, we could equal those kind of wages.
 
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