Paul Pogba

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The agent's influence had no relevence? Come off it.

Not in this discussion because you are attempting to put words in my mouth a out giving him Scholes' shirt etc. Fergie said if he didn't play Pogba then he thought he'd leave. He didn't play Pogba and he then left. As I said, Fergie knew the consequences of not playing him.

Our problem with bringing through young central midfielders, even talented ones, is that affording them game time when we play 2 central midfielders is always going to be difficult. The ones coming through have to be exceptionally talented (Fabregas sort of talented) or very well suited/mature (Cleverley) to even get a sniff. Pogba is in that bracket below Fabregas in my opinion, and not suited enough to start games of importance in a 2 given that his positioning is terrible.

The Park/Rafael thing must've seemed crazy to him though, to be fair. I just hope by the time the next batch come through we're playing 3 in the centre more often. Scholes/Carrick/Pogba with Valencia, Rooney and Welbeck would've been alright last year, but it's our insistence on playing 2 wingers that complicates everything.

I don't think Fabregas would have even got his chance here as early as he did at Arsenal. If he was here now and 18 years old again then he'd probably be heading off on loan soon.
 
If they are good enough, they would have gotten enough games. Rafael straight away got his chance after signing for us. Cesc is special, he would get games everywhere.
 
Juve did go out and buy two more midfielders who are older and higher rated after getting Pogba, so it's not at all clear he'll be the next man up for rotation. He did get a start against a team that's lost 5 of 6 games so far, and he may well be better off with Juve, so I don't begrudge him that.

But of course SAF has to decide what's best for us, and he must not have felt that was playing Pogba. I wouldn't be surprised if he preferred Powell and he came in to replace Pogba.

reckon that's quite possible especially given that he's far more likely to settle. If Pogba didn't leave this year, it wouldn't be long in coming.
 
In fairness...Powell, Cleverley and Tunnicliffe all have the talent, desire and passion for the club needed to make sure that Pogba won't be missed a couple of years from now. Might be some frustrating and painful moments watching them try to reach the top between then and now though
 
Ahh, I just can't help but Pogba's a level of talent or two above all of them. :( If he grows a proper brain he's going to be amazing, unfortunately. He has so much ability than Tunnicliffe and Cleverley in terms of skill it's not even funny, and although Powell can clearly strike a football, Pogba's striking technique is amazing. Added to that he's got great physique. Potentially complete midfielder.
 
Ahh, I just can't help but Pogba's a level of talent or two above all of them. :( If he grows a proper brain he's going to be amazing, unfortunately. He has so much ability than Tunnicliffe and Cleverley in terms of skill it's not even funny, and although Powell can clearly strike a football, Pogba's striking technique is amazing. Added to that he's got great physique. Potentially complete midfielder.

That's pretty much how I think about the whole matter.

We lost a real raw diamond in this guy but with his agent the whole saga was always going to end in him moving away from us and I'm pretty sure it wasn't his last move.

Probably going to join Milan in two years. :D
 
Ahh, I just can't help but Pogba's a level of talent or two above all of them. :( If he grows a proper brain he's going to be amazing, unfortunately. He has so much ability than Tunnicliffe and Cleverley in terms of skill it's not even funny, and although Powell can clearly strike a football, Pogba's striking technique is amazing. Added to that he's got great physique. Potentially complete midfielder.

He has not creativity
 
Not sure why anyone feels like we're missing out here to be quite honest. At the end of the day, the lad is clearly motivated primarily by money and that leads to a bad attitude. He would have ended up being more trouble than he was worth.
 
He has not creativity

I don't know how he's playing in Juventus, but he showed decent dribbling ability and excellent passing here for us in our reserves. Different game altogether obviously playing in Seria A, but he's got it in him.
 
I don't know how he's playing in Juventus, but he showed decent dribbling ability and excellent passing here for us in our reserves. Different game altogether obviously playing in Seria A, but he's got it in him.

Dribbling and passing don't make a player creative. Bale can dribble and pass but I wouldn't exactly call him a creative player, would you? Creativity is Rooney's pass for RvP's second goal.
 
Dribbling and passing don't make a player creative. Bale can dribble and pass but I wouldn't exactly call him a creative player, would you? Creativity is Rooney's pass for RvP's second goal.

It contributes to his overall creativity as a player. I didn't say he was amazingly creative, but he has the ability to...create. Pogba is capable of passes like that for Van Persie's second, for example. He has at least reasonable levels of creativity, and given his ability to pull of fantastic skill (beating men in the process) and pick a pass, he has it within him to go a step further and put it all together to become a real all-round threat. With him, it's a matter of how much he wants it and how much he wants to improve, so any success he has is dependant on that. The talent isn't in question.

I don't know how I'd feel if that happened and did go on to great things, mind. It'd probably be quite frustrating going on to see him be amazing elsewhere.
 
Ahh, I just can't help but Pogba's a level of talent or two above all of them. :( If he grows a proper brain he's going to be amazing, unfortunately. He has so much ability than Tunnicliffe and Cleverley in terms of skill it's not even funny, and although Powell can clearly strike a football, Pogba's striking technique is amazing. Added to that he's got great physique. Potentially complete midfielder.

Pogba has shown nothing to suggest he is better than Tom.
 
It contributes to his overall creativity as a player. I didn't say he was amazingly creative, but he has the ability to...create. Pogba is capable of passes like that for Van Persie's second, for example. He has at least reasonable levels of creativity, and given his ability to pull of fantastic skill (beating men in the process) and pick a pass, he has it within him to go a step further and put it all together to become a real all-round threat. With him, it's a matter of how much he wants it and how much he wants to improve, so any success he has is dependant on that. The talent isn't in question.

I don't know how I'd feel if that happened and did go on to great things, mind. It'd probably be quite frustrating going on to see him be amazing elsewhere.

It may contribute in ways to beat your defender but it doesn't make him a creative player as like I say, anyone can do that. Creativity is seeing a pass and making it, it's lifting your head up and seeing what is going on in the game and doing something with the ball that other players may not think of.

If he goes on to do amazing things, good on him. There is no reason for us to feel upset or bitter about it because you will never know how it could have panned out with us anyway. There have been plenty of better players at United who have left and we will always be able to move on and replace them, perhaps not exactly but we have always found an alternative that works and does their job effectively but in a different way.
 
Honestly, I don't think Pogba would have broke through(this season) here anyway. I've always seen him as a direct competition to Anderson and Anderson is a lot ahead of him in the curve. It would have been nice if he had stayed but don't think he would have been happy, the move was best for both the parties imo.
 
Ahh, I just can't help but Pogba's a level of talent or two above all of them. :( If he grows a proper brain he's going to be amazing, unfortunately. He has so much ability than Tunnicliffe and Cleverley in terms of skill it's not even funny, and although Powell can clearly strike a football, Pogba's striking technique is amazing. Added to that he's got great physique. Potentially complete midfielder.

Jesus, the ability of Pogba is like the ability of Lucas for Liverpool. the less he played the better he is.

Pogba wasnt even the best midfielder in our reserves last year, never mind more ability than Tom Cleverley.
 
Pogba has shown nothing to suggest he is better than Tom.

Better passer, better vision, better shooter, more skill on the ball, etc...

Doesn't mean he's a better footballer at this moment in time given everything else that encompasses being good on a football pitch, but the potential is there for all to see. It's conceivable that he'll be better than Cleverley (maybe a lot better), just as it is conceivable that he'll be underwhelming.

It may contribute in ways to beat your defender but it doesn't make him a creative player as like I say, anyone can do that. Creativity is seeing a pass and making it, it's lifting your head up and seeing what is going on in the game and doing something with the ball that other players may not think of.

If he goes on to do amazing things, good on him. There is no reason for us to feel upset or bitter about it because you will never know how it could have panned out with us anyway. There have been plenty of better players at United who have left and we will always be able to move on and replace them, perhaps not exactly but we have always found an alternative that works and does their job effectively but in a different way.

He has shown this, though. Some of the stuff he's pulled off in the academy and in the reserves has been mind-blowing at times. I'm not getting on the back of the club for not keeping hold of him or anything like that, but there's no doubt whatsoever that he'll be a brilliant player if he can rectify certain things in his game (asking for the ball more, moving into space more - things that may well come with age and a decent willingness to improve). Of course it'll be frustrating seeing him be quality elsewhere, doesn't mean I'll be mourning the fact that we don't have him. Just as the Rossi/Pique scenarios were frustrating (particularly Rossi), it's a similar thing albeit not quite the same given the way things were left.

Another thing on the creativity bit. Being creative is a mindset as much as anything. Ronaldo was stupidly creative during 2006/07, yet before that not so much. It was his use of the ball and his attributes that improved; the attributes themselves did not change. He was always pacey, a good dribbler and direct when on form, but it was only when he matured that there was consistently substance to his play. Pogba is a very good passer when he wants to be, a good and powerful dribbler and is very skilful. What remains is the willingness to tie up these attributes to the extent that he is then fittingly creative, with efficient, goal-directed use of them. This is something that will come with time and maturity, and is for the most part a mental thing. He's already shown he has the imagination.

Nogbadthebad said:
Jesus, the ability of Pogba is like the ability of Lucas for Liverpool. the less he played the better he is.

Pogba wasnt even the best midfielder in our reserves last year, never mind more ability than Tom Cleverley.

I watch our reserve matches regularly, I know what his weaknesses were and are, and how he actually performed. I'm talking about his ability to do things with a football, and how good he could actually be if he sorts out some, granted, very fundamental things. The difference in talent between him and someone like Lucas is considerable in my opinion (based on what Lucas has shown for Liverpool), yet the difference in maturity and positional sense...not so.

That's all I'm saying. With young midfielders, you have to accept that not all of them will have this part of the game sorted already, nor will they be consistent. It's normal - very, very few are developed in this way. The concern with Pogba is that it looks like he can't be arsed when he plays sometimes, which isn't a good sign. For someone who wanted first team performances, he did not have the look of someone who was playing to prove a point.
 
Not sure why anyone feels like we're missing out here to be quite honest. At the end of the day, the lad is clearly motivated primarily by money and that leads to a bad attitude. He would have ended up being more trouble than he was worth.

See, this is the type of post I just don't understand. How do you know that he's motivated by money? Do you have inside information?

Why is it totally out of the question that he really just wanted to go to a team where he would actually get to play games at the highest level? There was talk about us loaning him out: maybe he didn't like the idea of playing in the Championship; Turin was more appealing for him than Blackpool or Preston.
 
Ahh, I just can't help but Pogba's a level of talent or two above all of them. :( If he grows a proper brain he's going to be amazing, unfortunately. He has so much ability than Tunnicliffe and Cleverley in terms of skill it's not even funny, and although Powell can clearly strike a football, Pogba's striking technique is amazing. Added to that he's got great physique. Potentially complete midfielder.

IIRC, Pogba didn't score all that many goals last season, which seems to be his main attribute. The reserves aren't that competitive, from what I read League Two isn't any easier than the United reserves, so on last season's form Powell was the more productive.

And Powell has already scored more goals for the first team than Pogba did in 7 sub appearances, or has scored so far for Juve.
 
Pogba has shown nothing to suggest he is better than Tom.

At 19 very few people thought Clev would be a Premier League footballer.

He's 23 now.

At 19 Paul Pogba is getting into a reigning champion Juventus side and is clearly very talented.
 
At 19 very few people thought Clev would be a Premier League footballer.

He's 23 now.

At 19 Paul Pogba is getting into a reigning champion Juventus side and is clearly very talented.



Even though Pogba is almost certainly the more naturally gifted of the two, you just can't compare young players like that. At 19 Tom probably hadn't gotten his pubes yet while Pogba is a bit of a beast.
 
IIRC, Pogba didn't score all that many goals last season, which seems to be his main attribute. The reserves aren't that competitive, from what I read League Two isn't any easier than the United reserves, so on last season's form Powell was the more productive.

And Powell has already scored more goals for the first team than Pogba did in 7 sub appearances, or has scored so far for Juve.

Not sure I'd say goalscoring was his main attribute. He could crack one in from range, but there's a lot to him as a player. Used to love watching his composure in the centre when he was on form. That's what I thought was best about him - the quality touches and skills that would open up space that were done with next to no difficulty.
 
Just scored a screamer against Napoli.
 
I miss him :(. I know we'll do fine without him, but I really did enjoy watching him play.
 
I've seen juventus play once in the league this season and he was outstanding. It was about a month ago. Can't remember who they played now though.
 
He replaced Pirlo against Fiorentina a few weeks ago with 30 minutes remaining when the score was 0-0. Immense show of trust by Conte, he's going to become a fantastic player in the near future isn't he :(
 
He replaced Pirlo against Fiorentina a few weeks ago with 30 minutes remaining when the score was 0-0. Immense show of trust by Conte, he's going to become a fantastic player in the near future isn't he :(

Yup, there's nothing you can do if a player doesn't want to be here though.
 
With Cleverley & Anderson fit...Fergie continuing to play Scholes...you can understand why he left.

Reserves, the odd 5 minutes or starting for Juventus...not a difficult decision for a kid with next to no attachment to United
 
With Cleverley & Anderson fit...Fergie continuing to play Scholes...you can understand why he left.

Reserves, the odd 5 minutes or starting for Juventus...not a difficult decision for a kid with next to no attachment to United

His performances for the Reserves hardly thrust him into contention for the First Team though, Petrucci was better as was Lingard. We dropped the ball with that 1 year option we thought we had, after that I think Paul's mind was set, the Blackburn game didn't help.
 
SerieA is a different league.
We'll be fine, he'll do alright.
He didnt want to stay.. move on.
 
His performances for the Reserves hardly thrust him into contention for the First Team though, Petrucci was better as was Lingard. We dropped the ball with that 1 year option we thought we had, after that I think Paul's mind was set, the Blackburn game didn't help.



Not really. If i remember correctly, he was immense in his first season and quite frankly, he was given very limited opportunities to show what he is capable of at a higher level, when its clear he was breezing through the reserve league. When Fergie started to play 36 year olds and others out of position instead of trusting in him, thats when his performances for the reserve team started to falter. Its a bad case of mismanagement on Fergie's part and less said the better. He could have solve our midfield issues,
 
With Cleverley & Anderson fit...Fergie continuing to play Scholes...you can understand why he left.

Reserves, the odd 5 minutes or starting for Juventus...not a difficult decision for a kid with next to no attachment to United

Annoyingly I think he would have broken into side this season. I think Fergie was hesitant in playing an 19 year old during a title run in but after a good pre-season Pogba would have broken in.

It is annoying how well he and Morrison might end up being.
 
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