It was a good goal but not what I would call a screamer
Paul Pogba
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Powell's was better 
If Morrison realises his potential I could see him in a United shirt again as he's a United fan deep down. If he cuts out this gang shit and wises the feck up he could be back here in the near future. Pogba's gone for good though, he's not got the affection to the club that Morrison has.
Realistically though if Pogba hasn't got the frame of mind to realise that at the end of last season wasn't the best time to throw him in the deep end then it speaks volumes of his character. Maybe if him and the rest of the fringe players had performed better in the Carling Cup they would have had more opportunities to stake a claim to be given more of a chance in the more important games. As it was, we crashed out to Crystal fecking Palace and their chances to impress were squandered. And it's not like he was that impressive in the reserve games last season either - he looked lethargic and arrogant.
Petrucci was better and there's a huge gulf between the Reserves and the Premier League. Pogba for me wasn't ready last year.
Or perhaps he has the strength of character, the confidence, and determination to feel he was more than ready? Players want to play football at his age you can't hold them back, particularly when they are so talented. In my view he was more than ready to feature more for Manchester United last season. You learn quickly when you are playing top-level football, look at Arsene Wenger, he's not afraid to trust the talent in his young players. He's not got a bad record with young midfielders either.
Ferguson preferred to bring Scholes out of retirement than place his trust in Pogba. A decision that smacked purely of short-termism, the safe option. And lets not forget the utter debacle of pairing a tiny Brazilian full-back with Park in central midfield....rather than a highly talented youngster who must have been itching to prove his worth. I wouldn't bet against those two decisions playing a huge part in Pogba's highly criticised stance that culminated in his departure. Shame.
You cant judge a player on their reserves performance. Some dont give it their all in fear of getting an injury or just feel under appreciated. Point is Pogba remains a very talented youngster who decided to leave.
I dont blame Pogba leaving as I dont think he would be getting any gametime at United.
I dont blame Pogba leaving as I dont think he would be getting any gametime at United.
We lost the title by one goal to our local rivals who have a front four worth £120 million and an abundance of other superstars. If you think that Pogba had the mentality to deal with the pressure during that title run-in then fair enough, but I don't think you could count the number of 18 year olds who could truly handle the pressure on one hand.
Wenger doesn't have a bad record with youth, but nor does he have a good record with silverware in recent years. The fact of the matter is that due to increased spending of Chelsea and Spurs, you simply can't throw the youth in at the deep end anymore. In days gone by you could afford the occasional dropped point due to blooding in youth, but that's not the case anymore.
Said Vieira told him to leave and go Juve
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...ick-vieira-told-him-to-quit-manchester-united
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...ick-vieira-told-him-to-quit-manchester-united
The knob knew what a player we had on our hands.
fecking also hope he doesn't turn out be class. (not sure about it though)
The value and status of City's players has nothing to do with allowing Pogba first team opportunities....price is relative to what a club is willing to pay. United have an abundance of valuable players also.
The thing is he should have been included a lot earlier than the run-in. United were struggling for numbers and form in midfield well before the New Year. Of course Ferguson isn't going to just throw him in during the last couple of months, that's why he bought Scholes back. And United still ended up with nothing.
And a lot of that is down to Wenger himself...not compromising just that little bit when he should. The point is most of his young stars have developed fantastically well through plenty of game time. Look at Fabregas, Wilshere, Ramsey, Walcott. All players who were first team regulars around the same age as Pogba.
I'm not talking about blooding a whole set of youngsters. I'm suggesting Pogba was a real talent on our books, and for whatever reason Ferguson decided that he would rather use defenders, wingers and forwards in midfield than blood Pogba in a run of games. He then bought a 37 year old legend out of retirement and played him until the end of the season. And we still won feck all. And you can blood youth effectively...you just require a very strong squad, something United arguably do not possess. Ferguson took a backward step with Scholes, and this in part will have cost him Pogba.
He replaced Pirlo against Fiorentina a few weeks ago with 30 minutes remaining when the score was 0-0. Immense show of trust by Conte, he's going to become a fantastic player in the near future isn't he
Wish fergie had done that..might still have had him here.
Superb goal that was. I'm sure this move is justified in his own mind. He feels like he has more trust and he's getting first team action with a top team. It still hurts to see such a midfield talent elsewhere though. If only we'd done more to convince him.
It's one goal guys, hardly means anything.
This. He wasn't a united fan, nor was he brought up through the ranks. Therefore, he probably hasn't got a deep affinity towards the club. What made things worse was the lack of faith shown in him by Ferguson. It was a rare case of poor management of a young player, given that Fergie had praised him to the sky and promised him opportunities. There is certain bias by Ferguson, and i wished Fergie shown him the patience and faith as he did towards Fletcher, who was certainly not as good as Pogba at the same age.
A bit harsh criticising Fergie on this. No one knows what exactly happened.
Fletcher was never one wih the most skills but he was very good in his first few games as I remember. But he had lots of injuries at early age. Fletcher never had an attitude. Fergie has never let good players go even if they wanted to leave. But if they have attitude/disciplinarry problems, they'll get shipped out fairly soon. Or at least they got the hairdryer at full blast and be warned to improve quickly.
Only if the entire discussion is just because of the goal he scored yesterday.
A goal he wasn't supposed to ever score for Juventus because apparently at 19 he would never play a game for them as they have a good midfield (much better than ours for sure).
Of course it does. It means that the risk factor of dropped points is much higher and that Ferguson will be much more cautious and considered about his team selection. "Price is relative to what a club will play" - now that's total bullshit. Would you say they overpaid for Aguero or Dzeko? Although they paid a lot for them, it's a justified amount given the talent that they have, and with Aguero's youth. When I said superstars I didn't really mean prices, although I listed the strikers fees. I mean that they have a world class keeper, arguably the best central defender in the world and an abundance of attacking wealth.
He was put in the matchday squads a lot, and when the time was right (ie. Stoke) he got a cameo appearance to try and impress. Let's not forget that we crashed out to Crystal Palace with a team that was easily good enough to beat them. I seem to remember Pogba not doing a great deal, maybe if they had progressed in the Carling Cup he would have had more opportunities to stake a claim for the first squad.
It's a whole different mentality when your aim is to qualify for CL football compared to beating your city neighbours to the PL title. I agree with you in the fact that there's nothing better for a young player's development that a load of gametime and the list you posted above proves it. Infact taking it to a European scale, Muniain is set to make his 150th Bilbao appearance at just 19, and as a result he's one of the most sought after young players in the world. However, once again it applies, Bilbao have much different objectives to United, and can afford to relax and play the youth.
Yes Pogba's a real talent and arguably should have played more, but the fact is that he didn't impress in Carling Cup games, nor did he impress in reserve games last season either. Bringing a 37 year old of the calibre of Scholes out of retirement is not a backwards step, infact it was Scholes who decided he had retired too early and could still compete. It'd be utterly moronic to turn down a player of the class of Scholes, regardless of how promising your youth players are. Tell me, had we won the title, would you have classed Scholes' return as a masterstroke by Ferguson?
Wish we knew the proper ins and outs of this situation.
I just don't get - because I dont know the full facts - how we can fight to get him from Le Havre, groom him into such a promising player and then let him leave.
He had all the tools to be the cm beast many feel we need and it would have been brilliant to see him do it because he would have been, in many ways, ours in terms of his development etc
I certainly would have seen it that way. Shame that he got away.
I just don't get - because I dont know the full facts - how we can fight to get him from Le Havre, groom him into such a promising player and then let him leave.
He had all the tools to be the cm beast many feel we need and it would have been brilliant to see him do it because he would have been, in many ways, ours in terms of his development etc
I certainly would have seen it that way. Shame that he got away.
Watching that goal does hurt. No point saying that I wish he'd turn shite - that would be bitter-like-City action. It just pains to see such a promising player we've groomed playing for another top club.
I just hope he doesn't knock us out of an European match - that would sting
I just hope he doesn't knock us out of an European match - that would sting
Because the experienced old heads we used instead so that we could "play it safe" coped with the pressure so much better, didn't they? No, in fact they ended up throwing away an eight point lead and conducting the greatest bottle job in Premier League history. Pogba couldn't have been any worse than them.
I miss him, but I want him to do well.
That's the stupid thing here. He found himself competing against arguably the worst midfield United have had in ages, further decimated by injuries, and was still not given any time on the field. He left for Juventus, who on the other hand have one of the best midfields in today's football and plays for them.
Fergie fecked up by playing park and Rafael in midfield, that should of been pogbas opportunity but clearly he didn't trust him. That for me was clearly the end with us.
Glad to see that he isn't just rotting on the bench at juve anyway.
Glad to see that he isn't just rotting on the bench at juve anyway.
Who got us that eight point lead inspite of numerous injury troubles? It's like some of you don't even watch United but just come here to bitch and moan. Let's forget all the contributions Carrick, Scholes and Giggs made in keeping us in the hunt in a horrible injury hit season and blame the title loss on them. A 18 year old reserve player definitely would have been our savior. The mind freaking boggles.
Do you any of you watch any Italian football? You know how shit it is these days? There is no money in the league. One of the giants in the league sold their two best players to PSG. There is a new match-fixing or some other scandal every week. The quality of football and teams in that league is mediocre at best. It will always be easier to give young players a go when you are the undisputed champions of the league even before the season began. Premier league has 4-5 genuine title contenders and each and every game is of tantamount importance these days. It's not like a few years bac when there were only one or two other title contenders and the bottom teams would just roll over. You cannot take the risk of throwing a player straight from the minors to the majors anymore. Alan Hansen made the right comment but about two-decades too early.
Pogba was a good talent, who was too impatient. He wanted first team action straight away, which he wasn't going to get at United. Fair play to him for going to Juventus and getting more game time. But don't blame Fergie for not playing a 18-year old in a tight league season.
Exactly. Its a epic fecked up by Fergie and all the more hard to swallow, given his excellent record with bringing young players through.
Fergie has gotten extremely stubborn his old age, much like my gran. And it has cost us points and players. I don't blame Pogba at all. He saw a lack of faith in him by Fergie and thought he deserved better. Fair enough he left we got a few bob and now he's showing Fergie what he's missing out on.
And Italy might not be a premier league but it is still class and playing and now scoring for a team that has gone undefeated for over a season is immense.
And Italy might not be a premier league but it is still class and playing and now scoring for a team that has gone undefeated for over a season is immense.
Fergie must go to bed crying like a little bitch that he lost a 19-year old player.
Jones, DeGea, Smalling, Rafael, Welbeck, Cleverley must be touching 40 as Fergie doesn't give young players a chance any longer. 18 year old Powell coming in and scoring against Wigan, making the bench in 5 of the 11 we have played so far must be a sign that Fergie has lost his marbles when it comes to youth.
Freaking stubborn old fart!
Jones, DeGea, Smalling, Rafael, Welbeck, Cleverley must be touching 40 as Fergie doesn't give young players a chance any longer. 18 year old Powell coming in and scoring against Wigan, making the bench in 5 of the 11 we have played so far must be a sign that Fergie has lost his marbles when it comes to youth.
Freaking stubborn old fart!
Turn it up you lot. 
It's not about Fergie's inadequacies but rather acknowledging that he indeed mismanaged a young player of huge potential in arguably the weakest department of the squad. He gone back on his promise, one which he made to the media of giving him ample changes to avoid risking losing him. We had a spell where he would have played significant minutes and for some reason, Fergie fecked around, as if toying around during a delicate contract discussion period. This lad is damn talented with the ball on his feet and reminds of Vieira. Fergie fecked up big time with his stubbornness last season. It's a fact, not a tirade against our greatest manager.
What promise did he make?
Is it possible that Pogba didn't do what it takes to get more game time from SAF?
Is it possible that Pogba didn't do what it takes to get more game time from SAF?
The way I think Pogba saw the situation is that for him last season should have been his breakthrough considering the midfield situation, the injuries etc etc ... In a way if he thought like that then he had a point
Seriously, there was no way Pogba was going to make it here if he wasn't going to accept a reserve role for a couple of years more. I mean Fergie still insists on playing a 37 year old as a starter almost every week when we have a promising England International, and a dynamic Brazilian waiting in the ranks.
I definitely agree with you.Just tried to understand things from Pogba's perspective.In the end he can feck off for all I care, much better player left in the past and United stayed United.
When is it easier to blood youngsters in? When you are leading in games and are comfortable in them or when every game is a cup final as your neighbors and one of the biggest rivals can't stop losing?
Injuries and the tight league table made it harder to blood Pogba in last season not easier.
I think him leaving has nothing to do with him getting not enough opportunities to play. Fergie was slowly giving him playing times, and being on the bench a lot too if I remember correctly, when suddenly the previously quiet Juve rumours got louder. I think his agent was approached by Juve and he slowly lose interest to play for United. Bare in mind that Juve is still a huge team. If he wanted more playing time, he wouldnt go to Juve. He still has to be patient there. I even have doubts that Juve can match our wages offer for young players. So, it cant be over money it has to be said.
Fergie's not blind. He knows a good player when he sees one. I remembered Fergie complaining a lot of times that the situation with Pogba was very difficult. I think you guys are refering to the way Fergie recently handled Berbatov and Tevez cases. I think it's completely different here. With Pogba, I think he wanted to keep him but the kid's mind was somewhere else. I think fergie stopped giving him playing times when he sorta knew that Pogba made up his mind to go to Juve. What's the point anyway. He might have huge potential, but he's no Ronaldo who we cant afford not to use to the fullest in his last season.
Fergie's not blind. He knows a good player when he sees one. I remembered Fergie complaining a lot of times that the situation with Pogba was very difficult. I think you guys are refering to the way Fergie recently handled Berbatov and Tevez cases. I think it's completely different here. With Pogba, I think he wanted to keep him but the kid's mind was somewhere else. I think fergie stopped giving him playing times when he sorta knew that Pogba made up his mind to go to Juve. What's the point anyway. He might have huge potential, but he's no Ronaldo who we cant afford not to use to the fullest in his last season.
Yep. He had plenty of moments where he was on the bench and the intention will have been to have played him a fair bit if we were doing well in games but unfortunately it coincided with the season where at times we were struggling to finish games off.
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