Nail. On. The. Head. Most on the cafe didn't see him at youth level nor watch him regularly in Serie A. He has it in him to run a game but doesn't do it consistently enough yet, although he of course has all the tools to do so and it will most likely be something that comes with age.
Paul Pogba | Undergoing Medical | Helping out the Laundry Ladies
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Nail. On. The. Head. Most on the cafe didn't see him at youth level nor watch him regularly in Serie A. He has it in him to run a game but doesn't do it consistently enough yet, although he of course has all the tools to do so and it will most likely be something that comes with age.
Pogba is a great player and all, but I don't feel comfortable that we go after a player who willingly left us for free when the club needed him to stay and did everything to achieve that.
this is 2016 ffs. jesus. stop being butthurt. players don't have to "love" a club. they simply have to perform.
I'll go against the popular opinion and say I think Pogba is a bit overrated. Pogba is what I call a perfect MOTD highlights player who'd do very little for the majority of the game but could snatch the headline away from other dominant performers with a moment of magic or two.
Every time I see him either for France or Juventus, I see a lazy showbaoter who'd put in a shift if he's in the mood. He isn't someone who'd control the game or dominate the midfield or even harry the opposition when out of possession. But then again as I said, he can come up with a wow moment or two.
Our team need improvements all over the pitch and at the moment I don't think we're in a position to spend a record breaking sum on a player who I put into luxury category. When we have a team like Bayern, quality all over the pitch as well as on the bench, then it's totally a different case.
We have other pressing needs and I'd rather see us strengthen our defense, midfield with the 80+ million that would require to prise Pogba away from Juventus.
But I think Mourinho will try his best to sign Pogba. He tried last year but Chelsea board didn't back him and knowing Woody's itch for a marquee signing, I'd not be surprised if we chase him all summer long.
Every time I see him either for France or Juventus, I see a lazy showbaoter who'd put in a shift if he's in the mood. He isn't someone who'd control the game or dominate the midfield or even harry the opposition when out of possession. But then again as I said, he can come up with a wow moment or two.
Our team need improvements all over the pitch and at the moment I don't think we're in a position to spend a record breaking sum on a player who I put into luxury category. When we have a team like Bayern, quality all over the pitch as well as on the bench, then it's totally a different case.
We have other pressing needs and I'd rather see us strengthen our defense, midfield with the 80+ million that would require to prise Pogba away from Juventus.
But I think Mourinho will try his best to sign Pogba. He tried last year but Chelsea board didn't back him and knowing Woody's itch for a marquee signing, I'd not be surprised if we chase him all summer long.
Fergie brought a 37 year old Paul Scholes out of retirement instead of "giving youth a chance". That kind of played a decent sized part in Pogba deciding to leave.
Calm down buddy you going to get a stroke. And yes players do need to love the club and feel like they are pat of it, this isn't a factory or a mill plus "Love" has nothing to do with what I'm saying I'm 100% sure he loves this club as he was practically raised here, but it's just wrong going after a player and paying something like 60M for him when he was supposed to be here to begin with.
SAF needed experience back then and he did tell him that he was going to play regularly the following season, David Gill said that they did everything they could to keep him, Evra said that he went to his house to convince him to stay, but yet, after all that he still decided to leave, and right now there is a chance that we might pay around 60M just to get this attention, I don't like that at all.
Conversely, I think many posters have an obsession with midfielders 'running a game' or 'controlling the tempo' of a game etc. I don't think it matters whether Pogba 'controls' games if he 'decides' them. We have controlled many a football match in recent times, a large part of the problem has been deciding them.
Pogba is a brilliant link from midfield to attack. He is skilful, creative and has a goal threat. Unlike most with this kind of skill set, he also has a very respectable defensive contribution. Instead of focusing and what he does not provide in midfield, I think the focus should be on the significant that he does.
Besides, it isn't always necessary. Makalele, Essien or Lampard didn't control games, Leicester midfielders didn't control games. Not that we shouldn't, but we have controlled the midfield more than most teams, and had little to show.
Fergie played Park Ji Sung and fecking Rafael in central midfield. We lost that game anyway. For a manager who gives youth a chance did seem to give youth a chance there. And it wasn't like he wasn't impressing everyone in the U-21s. He was well above that level. You can't blame Pogba for that. His agent is another cnut. He was going to get money plus first team football at Juventus - neither of which we could guarantee at that point in his career.
He could have still brought Scholes back and given Pogba playing time. Like @RDCRO7 said, one game Fergie played Park and Rafael in CM, for a guy that is hailed for giving youth a chance he didn't in that instance with Pogba and could and should have. I don't disagree that they tried to do everything to keep him but it was clear he had made up his mind before they did and his agent was given assurances from Juventus about first team playing time and backed it up which Fergie was only saying he would and hadn't shown all season he was going to.
Here is a quote from Fergie in August of 2011
"I mean if we hold Pogba back, what’s going to happen? He’s going to leave. You know, in a couple of years’ time when his contract is going to finish. So we have to give him the opportunity to see how he can do in the first-team and he’s got great ability."
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2011/Aug/ferguson-to-promote-pogba.aspx
What happened? Pogba came on as a 2nd half sub in only 7 games that season and was an unused sub in 10 other games that season. His appearances, 3 in the Carling Cup, 2 in the league and 1 in the Europa. His first appearance in the league wasn't until end of January that season and he didn't appear again until middle of March.
I'm sure Pogba was aware of that quote and he sat there wondering all season when he was gonna be given the opportunity with the first team.
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There would have been ample game time. As you said 37 year old... He needs rest. We had to rely on cleverly because he wanted out. I know you cant put old head on young shoulders. But the fact is he was poorly advised, from a United sense and he would not have developed any less by now.
He was begged, pleeded with and would not decide to stay. Then he went to SAF and cried looking for game time from SAF but he had already signed his pre contract agreement, realisticly what did he think would happen.
Had Pogba trusted the club instead of being a big headed cnut... he'd still be here now as king of old trafford. Even Ravel admits he was begged also and got it wrong. Just thought they knew better.
And lest not forget we won the league... its not like fergie had a lot of wiggle room with the existing team doing so well. 18 and laying down the law to fergie... It dont really wash.
I swear this same discussions are going on the caf since 2013 about Pogba.
Pretty much whenever I login here, it's the same circlejerk.
Pretty much whenever I login here, it's the same circlejerk.
That's probably me. I have him as somewhat of a dynamo. That could disappoint me if he were signed.
I reckon we're working on Pogbadical Son and Ibracadabra together. Making Mino earn that huge agent fee.
Saying that he doesn't always run a game was a bit of a lax description on my part but I was mainly referring to the points that you alluded to, which was 'deciding' them. He has the attributes to do so but often doesn't, and there's times where he doesn't contribute to either the defensive or attacking phases of play and is being near passive in literally the middle of the field.
Don't me wrong I don't expect a player to win games single handedly every match without fail but I do think that for the skillset he has he should produce a more consistent output both for club and country. He just goes missing more than he should in my opinion, but like I said it'll probably come with age. I'm by no means against him coming back, I just don't think he'd be as transformative for us as many presume solely based off his youtube compilations (not suggesting you're one of those people).
Lost the league on GD that season...
As for him laying down the law to Fergie. SAF's the one that made public statements before that season saying he needed to give him a chance with the first team or he would leave. Well he didn't, instead of giving a young player that had "great ability" a start against Blackburn at Old Trafford for the 2nd of 3 matches in a span of 10 days, SAF instead played the backup RB in MF and we lost 3-2. That's what Pogba said himself made him decide to leave. Then 8 days later Scholes comes out of retirement which clearly just strengthend Pogba's decision to leave.
Can call him whatever you want for throwing his toys out of the pram because he wasn't given playing time but when the backup RB has a start in MF and then a 37 year old MF comes out of retirement a week later and he continued to not get a chance even when the manager said he needed to give him a chance I understand why he opted to leave when another team guaranteed first-team playing time and the salary to back it up.
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This is all very true. Pogba is a world class target to re-sign, someone that rightfully was left out in his youth and rightfully decided to leave. You don't see that combo very often.
Either of these please.
Martial - Ibra - Mkhitaryan
Rooney - Pogba
Schweinsteiger
Shaw - Bailly - Mike - Valencia
David
Or
Martial - Ibra - Mahrez
Rooney - Pogba
Schneiderlin
Shaw - Bailly - Mike - Valencia
Dave
Martial - Ibra - Mkhitaryan
Rooney - Pogba
Schweinsteiger
Shaw - Bailly - Mike - Valencia
David
Or
Martial - Ibra - Mahrez
Rooney - Pogba
Schneiderlin
Shaw - Bailly - Mike - Valencia
Dave
That's one shit midfield.
I would love Pogba back, but I can see him going to Real Madrid or even Barca while we sign Andre Gomes (or someone similar). IMO Pogba is the complete midfielder and he will be the best CM of the world.
I have Pogba in my muppet team and I really really hope that we manage to sign him, but he looks unrealistic at the moment.
I have Pogba in my muppet team and I really really hope that we manage to sign him, but he looks unrealistic at the moment.
I've stated this before that I think he's a bit overrated. I agree with this post 100%.
Thank you for posting that... now I don't have to look it up.
As for 2016 we *NEED* top flite players and Pogba is definitely one. Is he the finished article, no. Could he become player of the year, yes.
If we want to compete with the best in Europe our squad needs huge upgrades at several positions and we could do much worse than this imho.
Agreed, while he has impressive highlight reel moments and scores the odd screamer that invites a wrist-slitting bump over here, whenever I've seen him I haven't been completely convinced that he's worth the 80mn euro fee or whatever as yet. He's not yet in that bracket of player though he may well be in a year or two.
Followed Juventus quite a bit over the past few years and Pogba is at the heart of that team. He can literally change the game on his own. He has speed, power, dribbling and can score some big goals. To me he is one of the very best players in the world and I cant think of too many midfielders who are better than him and would love to have him at the club. I find it hilarious when fans argue over a fee, dude you're not paying it from your own pocket and its not like United dont have a record of paying way more than we should. Get Pogba.
Wow.
Did you even see any of Barcas games this year? First half of the season - Neymar were better than Messi. As I wrote in the post you quoted; they hardly noticed Messi being injured in October. However after Christmas Neymars form declined, whiles Messis form fired up. Overall I do think Messi had a better season, but I'd understand if a Barca-fan said he's more satisfied with Neymars season.
To make a comparison to United: For me, our best player were David de Gea. I hear people argue that Smalling and Martial were our best players. They both had excellent seasons, but let's be honest; DDG is the only pure world-class player we got in our squad. He's the only player you could put in a World XI without getting frowned upon by the neutral supporter.
To make this post relevant:
Pogba would arguably make the cut for a World XI this season. Busquets, Vidal and Modric would also be in the list. I haven't seen enough of PSG to claim Verratti should be on this shortlist. Same goes for midfielders in the German league. Vidal were excellent in CL, but I know he's been out for months this season. Guess Müller always should be mentioned, but Vidal were head and shoulders above him in CL.
To make a comparison to United: For me, our best player were David de Gea. I hear people argue that Smalling and Martial were our best players. They both had excellent seasons, but let's be honest; DDG is the only pure world-class player we got in our squad. He's the only player you could put in a World XI without getting frowned upon by the neutral supporter.
To make this post relevant:
Pogba would arguably make the cut for a World XI this season. Busquets, Vidal and Modric would also be in the list. I haven't seen enough of PSG to claim Verratti should be on this shortlist. Same goes for midfielders in the German league. Vidal were excellent in CL, but I know he's been out for months this season. Guess Müller always should be mentioned, but Vidal were head and shoulders above him in CL.
Except they wouldn't say that because they actually watched Barcelona the entire season.
I feel a lot of people are missing the point with Pogba in regard to what the fee for him is based on. If Pogba were at full potential, at 23(!) years of age, the only player on the planet who would be worth more is Lionel Messi. Pogba, at full potential, is in the Zidane bracket of ability and highly likely to go down as one of, if not the, player of his generation - few would argue that from a talent POV, he and Neymar look like the next two WPOTY rivals once Messi and Ronaldo age.
The Pogba that any potential suitor is looking at needs work and has yet to fully develop his understanding of the game, and yet, his talent to date puts him in a price range rarely even considered for a midfielder.
The question you have to ask about what he is now is how much he can contribute to your team as well as what you're prepared to do as a club to accommodate his game, warts and all whilst providing a platform from which you can have a mutually beneficial relationship that allows him to fully mature.
Pogba's 'worth' has to be broken up into key considerations: Current ability; potential; age; trajectory; brand/profile; fitness; equivalence.
He scores extremely highly in every single category and that obviously means you pay a premium. If he reaches his expected level over the next few years, he'll be worth at least a third more than whatever he currently goes for, very possibly double. Even in three years, he'll only be 26, and if he's still had no injuries and becomes an all-time level midfielder, the fee paid now will look like a steal.
It's up to the buying club to evaluate the risks involved and assess whether he has the personality and inclination to make good on his potential, but the fees touted for him, even as an incomplete player, are warranted. It's extremely rare for a 23yr old midfielder to be so ahead of the curve; Pogba's trajectory really does put him in the most elite company from a historical standpoint.
From the looks of things we've just got this Eric Bailly guy, we aint getting a pogba, not our level.
Surprised by how many think this is realistic. Hes the biggest property in world football cant see him playing in the Europa league. All reports suggest Pep is looking elsewhere which is frustrating although I don't believe he'll leave Juventus this year.
Im with you. He would transform us in all sorts of ways. Would make my day if we ever get him back
He would be the perfect signing and I'd be fine with us breaking the transfer record to get him but without Champions League football at least I don't see it happening. I can see this thread becoming the Fabregas/Ramos thread of the summer though which should be fun.
No, it's just that Pogba don't want to play for City. He'd still be at United but for his wally of an agent. United might get him. The Europa is irrelevant since we'll be stronger this season but I wouldn't get my hopes up to be frank.
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Bad or average Euros = possible
Good or great Euros = Real Madrid
imo.
Good or great Euros = Real Madrid
imo.
↑ This. He's RM material. I rather pick him up first, then act as the RM-farmer club we once used to be, once he reaches his full potential.
It doesn't work like that and I don't recall that happening in History. I can't recall a CM making a team favorites for the league without other world class players around him. In his pomp, Stevie Me was one of the best around (although many here will deny it) he scored bucket loads, racked up assists, dominated midfields, put his foot in, grabbed games by the scruff of the neck, won games, drove the team, produced moments of magic. Everything we assume Pogba will do. Gerrard in fact had reached a level in the premier league that may take Pogba some time to reach (23 goals in all competitions for e.g.). Despite that, Liverpool were no title contender until they had Torres, Mascherano and Xavi Alonso or Sturrudge, Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho. You need more than a Pogba is what I am saying. He isn't Messi.If Pogba returns United would immediately be favorites for the league imo.
The combination of technical and physical qualities he has is astonishing.
Like a combination of Viera and Iniesta.
Dreaming of Pogba, waking up with Fellaini.
affirmative. That must be what they are going by. He hasn't reached prime Stevie G levels yet he is world class, one of the best CM in the world and Stevie G was overrated etc
Reading the posts in the Bailly thread, I would say an overwhelming majority. We have had pages and pages filled with arguments on the topic, "Which is toughest league in the world", and when it came to a player on the 4th best team in LaLiga last season, hardly anyone had heard his name.
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and playing ji sung and RAFAEL instead no less..........embarrasing