Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”

CG1010 said:
Of all the criticisms of stats made, this must be the weirdest ever.

The rest of your post makes sense, in that some players do not score many goals or assists to be the creative force of the team. Even Scholes did not have many assists in the second half of his career I think.
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It's an insult to Scholes really, they're not in the same class. Compare Scholes last proper season when he was at the end to Pogba last season. His stats are very competitive to Pogba's with 70% of the games. Everyone agreed Scholes was coming to the end and not what he was that season,

Pogba is ahead in quite a few but when you take into account the difference in the amount of games, an old, fading Scholes was better on a per match basis in loads of things from successful tackles, pass completion, more passes, more big chances created per game, more through balls and dispossessed far less.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison
 
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United in sin said:
Our most dynamic midfield combo during Solskjaer's reign has been a triumvirate of Bruno, Pogba and Matic. I think Fred could offer that as well alongside Pogba and Bruno.

McTominay is anything but dynamic, he plays effectively only one way and that's off the ball, he can't pass between the lines to save his life, something Pogba pulls off with ease. I really think some people here have amnesia when it comes to what Pogba has given to this club and what he's capable of.

If the rumors of Solskjaer's willingless to switch to a 4-3-3 are true one of Fred or McTominay could play less this season. It will certainly mean they both won't play together much anyway.



Took the words right out of my mouth
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Are we still getting sentimental about that 10 game period 2 years ago?

I couldn't care less what Pogba is capable off if he doesn't show it regularly on the pitch. He is a good player but it's not in his nature to play quick passing football, it's not even an attack, it's describing his style. Weird it fires up so many emotions in you. McTominay and Fred make simple and quick passes which is more effective for our style.

Regarding the dig about amnesia, I'd say some fans watch Pogba compilations and think that's how he plays for 90'.
 
Borys said:
Regarding the dig about amnesia, I'd say some fans watch Pogba compilations and think that's how he plays for 90'.
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I know right...

He's not a David Silva type who conducts the play
He's not box to box
He's not very defensive orientated
He's not creative, even if you take away goals and assists which rely on the forwards to their job, he's not creating chances

So what is he?

You can simply look at the stats of De Bruyne, Kante, Mount, Silva, Verrati etc without even seeing them play and you could figure out if they're more defensive or offensive orientated and they all have stats where they're clearly outstanding against their peers.

The most spectacular stat Pogba has is the amount of times he gets dispossed. He's losing the ball 40% more than De Bruyne, an actual creative player whose stats clearly show it. But De Bruyne atleast produces the quality going forwards that you can make allowances if he gives the ball away now and again.

He had his chance as an AM and Bruno ended up being superior. And he's clearly not a CM that works for us.
 
Borys said:
Are we still getting sentimental about that 10 game period 2 years ago?
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You mean when he was the only player outside the top 2 in the team season? And are we just pretending he wasn't excellent until he got injured last season? It's incredible how often his good performances are ignored.
 
ivaldo said:
You mean when he was the only player outside the top 2 in the team season? And are we just pretending he wasn't excellent until he got injured last season? It's incredible how often his good performances are ignored.
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I don't think anyone is saying that on his day he can't be brilliant. He got 26 appearences last season and 16 the season before in the league. He didn't exactly look himself for France either at the Euro's from what I saw of their matches. If this is a player we were looking to buy and put on those kind of wages for that length of contract I think everyone would hit the roof. If he has another average season there is no chance we're going to be able to shift him if he signs a bumper contract because that's then 3 seasons of inconsistency, overall being bang average and injuries. And then there is the entire circus that comes with him. He's not helped himself in the slightest.
 
ivaldo said:
You mean when he was the only player outside the top 2 in the team season? And are we just pretending he wasn't excellent until he got injured last season? It's incredible how often his good performances are ignored.
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His last PL goal came in January ffs. Excellent? Are you sure?

Rashford gets pelters on here about last season's form and he ended with 32 goal involvements. Pogba only got 12 despite playing further forward an awful lot after Christmas.

Paul Pogba wasn't close to excellent last season. He's was distinctly average.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
His last PL goal came in January ffs. Excellent? Are you sure?

Rashford gets pelters on here about last season's form and he ended with 32 goal involvements. Pogba only got 12 despite playing further forward an awful lot after Christmas.

Paul Pogba wasn't close to excellent last season. He's was distinctly average.
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If only there was some kind of thread where people shared their views on a player. Maybe something like a player performance thread where we could check to see what people were saying about him prior to his injury?
 
ivaldo said:
If only there was some kind of thread where people shared their views on a player. Maybe something like a player performance thread where we could check to see what people were saying about him prior to his injury?
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He camps there all season.
 
IWat said:
I don't think anyone is saying that on his day he can't be brilliant. He got 26 appearences last season and 16 the season before in the league. He didn't exactly look himself for France either at the Euro's from what I saw of their matches. If this is a player we were looking to buy and put on those kind of wages for that length of contract I think everyone would hit the roof. If he has another average season there is no chance we're going to be able to shift him if he signs a bumper contract because that's then 3 seasons of inconsistency, overall being bang average and injuries. And then there is the entire circus that comes with him. He's not helped himself in the slightest.
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No, that's all they'll say. When he gets in the team of the season, it's because he had a couple of good games towards the end of the season. When he was unplayable last season, it was because he was trying to attract attention in the transfer market. His good performances are constantly downplayed, while his poorer performances are blown wildly out of proportion.

We aren't buying him. Conversely, if he was a player we could sign for free then we'd be falling over ourselves to bring him in. Stop judging him on his transfer fee. It has zero effect on his actual performances.

And are you serious? He was excellent for France.
 
ivaldo said:
You mean when he was the only player outside the top 2 in the team season? And are we just pretending he wasn't excellent until he got injured last season? It's incredible how often his good performances are ignored.
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I don't think he was excellent, no. But he had some good games, some bad and many average. Overall his impact from midfield is pretty meh, which is why I wouldn't blink if we sold him tomorrow. Good player who doesn't fit us and this league.
His good performances are ignored just as his average performances are being praised way too much. He has a style of play that some people like, I get it, but I don't think he makes us play better as a team. He is a good individual especially if used correctly which we're not doing (and with Sancho joining, Pogba time on the wing will be very limited).
 
IWat said:
I mean France were awful. He's already the 6th highest paid player in the world according to Forbes before any new contract and he was rated the 15th best midfielder in the tournament which consists of players from one continent. His demands are no way backed by his performances.

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/performancezone/#/
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He could be be paid £500m a year or paid in cuddles, that has absolutely no bearing on how well he plays. Ridiculous way of judging a player. If we decided to pay Bruno twice what Messi is paid does suddenly make him shit?
 
IWat said:
I mean France were awful. He's already the 6th highest paid player in the world according to Forbes before any new contract and he was rated the 15th best midfielder in the tournament which consists of players from one continent. His demands are no way backed by his performances.

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/performancezone/#/
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Was Harry Kane the 8th best player in the tournament? Patrik Schick the 5th best :lol:
 
Borys said:
I don't think he was excellent, no. But he had some good games, some bad and many average. Overall his impact from midfield is pretty meh, which is why I wouldn't blink if we sold him tomorrow. Good player who doesn't fit us and this league.
His good performances are ignored just as his average performances are being praised way too much. He has a style of play that some people like, I get it, but I don't think he makes us play better as a team. He is a good individual especially if used correctly which we're not doing (and with Sancho joining, Pogba time on the wing will be very limited).
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No, he was excellent. It's not even debatable.
 
ivaldo said:
He could be be paid £500m a year or paid in cuddles, that has absolutely no bearing on how well he plays. Ridiculous way of judging a player. If we decided to pay Bruno twice what Messi is paid does suddenly make him shit?
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No, it just makes it an awful decision for the club, which has become way too familiar over the past decade. I am not hating on Pogba, he isn't forcing the club at gunpoint. I am saying we are paying him way too much. And i'd much rather those wages go elsewhere.

He is not a top 5 player in the world, and thus, why on earth are we entertaining paying him as if he is. I'd argue at the moment he doesn't make the top 50.
 
ivaldo said:
If only there was some kind of thread where people shared their views on a player. Maybe something like a player performance thread where we could check to see what people were saying about him prior to his injury?
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I'm all for people being honest though. Was Pogba our worst player last season? Not even close. Was he our best? Again not close. He's was bang in the middle which in my book is not excellent.

He seems to get better and better with some of our fans the more he doesn't play.

Bruno, Shaw, Rashford Maguire, Cavani were all better than Pogba for me.
 
IWat said:
No, it just makes it an awful decision for the club, which has become way too familiar over the past decade. I am not hating on Pogba, he isn't forcing the club at gunpoint. I am saying we are paying him way too much. And i'd much rather those wages go elsewhere.

He is not a top 5 player in the world, and thus, why on earth are we entertaining paying him as if he is. I'd argue at the moment he doesn't make the top 50.
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You're drawing a direct correlation between the salary of the player with his performance. You're not making the point he isn't value for money, you're making the point he isn't play well. France doesn't pay his wages, but you've decided he wasn't good enough.
 
ivaldo said:
You're drawing a direct correlation between the salary of the player with his performance. You're not making the point he isn't value for money, you're making the point he isn't play well. France doesn't pay his wages, but you've decided he wasn't good enough.
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This whole thread is about potentially a new contract, of course I'm assessing his value for money? He's clearly not a horrendous player and like I said perhaps if he goes somewhere else it'll kick off for him, but he's not even close to being the best midfielder in the league at the moment and we're paying him more than Lewandowski ffs and apparently he wants more? I genuinely hope we slam the door in his face.
 
IWat said:
I mean France were awful. He's already the 6th highest paid player in the world according to Forbes before any new contract and he was rated the 15th best midfielder in the tournament which consists of players from one continent. His demands are no way backed by his performances.

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro-2020/performancezone/#/
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Talk about a change of goalposts..

"He didn't look like himself for France"

"Actually he was their best player"

"Yeah, but look how much he's paid.."
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
I'm all for people being honest though. Was Pogba our worst player last season? Not even close. Was he our best? Again not close. He's was bang in the middle which in my book is not excellent.

He seems to get better and better with some of our fans the more he doesn't play.

Bruno, Shaw, Rashford Maguire, Cavani were all better than Pogba for me.
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Prior to his injury, he was undroppable. You know how good he was? You didn't comment in his performance thread for 3 months. Bit off for someone with 167 posts (4th most on the forum) in that thread...
 
IWat said:
This whole thread is about potentially a new contract, of course I'm assessing his value for money? He's clearly not a horrendous player and like I said perhaps if he goes somewhere else it'll kick off for him, but he's not even close to being the best midfielder in the league at the moment and we're paying him more than Lewandowski ffs and apparently he wants more? I genuinely hope we slam the door in his face.
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You do a bloody good job of hiding that then. We don't pay him to play for France, but apparently he wasn't good enough, despite being told otherwise by multiple posters. Gain a bit of perspective man.
 
Oldyella said:
Talk about a change of goalposts..

"He didn't look like himself for France"

"Actually he was their best player"

"Yeah, but look how much he's paid.."
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It's incredible.
 
Oldyella said:
Talk about a change of goalposts..

"He didn't look like himself for France"

"Actually he was their best player"

"Yeah, but look how much he's paid.."
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Utterly bizarre. This thread is about him possibly getting a new contract. Ofcourse I'm assessing him against what his agent seems to perceive his market value.

I genuinly don't think he set the world alight with France for what he seems to think he is. If he wants to be up there and paid akin to Neymar, Mbappe and the like than that's the standard I will judge him against. (Mbappe also flopped at the Eurosbefore someone says it..)

Of all the people who have come back to me, not one person has been able to present one single stat or piece of data to back up anything. He's "creative" but doesn't create chances anymore. He puts the ball forward apparently yet is dominated in that regard by other players in the PL. He loses the ball a hell of a lot.

I'm out because I cba to argue this further and get accused of changing the goal posts when I'm the only one actually bothering to provide any evidence or sources.
 
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